Do you agree or disagree with Stephen Hawking on this? Link.

WVPATX

Freshman
Jan 27, 2005
28,197
91
38
There is always economic disruption when new technologies are introduced. Horses and buggies giving way to cars. These new technologies normally give way to different kinds of jobs. But it is increasingly clear that knowledge is critical to obtaining a good paying job (this doesn't mean everyone needs a 4 year degree, btw). Education is critical and far too many don't get the education they need. Bad schools, bad families and our culture all hinder a good education.

This does highlight the stupidity of our immigration policy. Technology is going to eliminate many of our rather mundane jobs. Why then do we allow illegal, low skilled workers to flood our labor markets? Why does our immigration policy focus more on family than on skills? In addition, why are some pushing for a $15 minimum wage which will encourage businesses to adopt more technology and eliminate those jobs?
 

Keyser76

Freshman
Apr 7, 2010
11,912
58
0
There is always economic disruption when new technologies are introduced. Horses and buggies giving way to cars. These new technologies normally give way to different kinds of jobs. But it is increasingly clear that knowledge is critical to obtaining a good paying job (this doesn't mean everyone needs a 4 year degree, btw). Education is critical and far too many don't get the education they need. Bad schools, bad families and our culture all hinder a good education.

This does highlight the stupidity of our immigration policy. Technology is going to eliminate many of our rather mundane jobs. Why then do we allow illegal, low skilled workers to flood our labor markets? Why does our immigration policy focus more on family than on skills? In addition, why are some pushing for a $15 minimum wage which will encourage businesses to adopt more technology and eliminate those jobs?
Why would I listen to the GOP plan for anything when I can look at the Louisiana and Kansas economies that a GOP administration wrecked. Why does the U.S. chamber of commerce encourage immigration reform and amnesty? Why would any business wait to adopt technology that eliminates workers and increases share holder profit? Why is it OK for 1 % of the population to control 99% of the wealth? I'd say it is why the GOP has gotten creamed in the last two general elections and that 2016 is gonna be worse.
 

op2

Sophomore
Mar 16, 2014
10,861
155
53
There is always economic disruption when new technologies are introduced. Horses and buggies giving way to cars. These new technologies normally give way to different kinds of jobs. But it is increasingly clear that knowledge is critical to obtaining a good paying job (this doesn't mean everyone needs a 4 year degree, btw). Education is critical and far too many don't get the education they need. Bad schools, bad families and our culture all hinder a good education.

This does highlight the stupidity of our immigration policy. Technology is going to eliminate many of our rather mundane jobs. Why then do we allow illegal, low skilled workers to flood our labor markets? Why does our immigration policy focus more on family than on skills? In addition, why are some pushing for a $15 minimum wage which will encourage businesses to adopt more technology and eliminate those jobs?

I agree that new technologies have always displaced workers but created new jobs in the process ("creative destruction" I think is what Alan Greenspan called it) but I think that with the increase upon increase in technology the number of new jobs isn't equalling the old ones put out of business. We're just needing humans to do less and less.

That said, as far as illegals go, if they're being hired (and they are) then that says there is a market for them, today at least.

I agree that simply hiking the minimum wage to $15 will encourage business to use more technology to use fewer workers but that hike is an attempt to solve the problem of the people at the bottom getting so little so if that solution doesn't work then they'll just try something else. The inequality we see today is going to eventually become less via some mechanism or other.
 

WVPATX

Freshman
Jan 27, 2005
28,197
91
38
Why would I listen to the GOP plan for anything when I can look at the Louisiana and Kansas economies that a GOP administration wrecked. Why does the U.S. chamber of commerce encourage immigration reform and amnesty? Why would any business wait to adopt technology that eliminates workers and increases share holder profit? Why is it OK for 1 % of the population to control 99% of the wealth? I'd say it is why the GOP has gotten creamed in the last two general elections and that 2016 is gonna be worse.

LMAO. The GOP controls both the House and the Senate. The GOP controls far more states than the Dems (I believe it is 24 to 7). Texas is an economic juggernaut. Illinois is a basketcase. Florida is an economic juggernaut. NY is a basketcase.

Technology is going to wipe out low skilled jobs. Why in the world do we want to immigrate even more low skilled workers. I realize corporations want cheap labor and libs want votes, but it is the wrong thing for the country.

A business is going to do a cost/benefit analysis. When the cost to replace the workers is lower than their labor costs, they will adopt the technology all other things being equal.
 

WVPATX

Freshman
Jan 27, 2005
28,197
91
38
I agree that new technologies have always displaced workers but created new jobs in the process ("creative destruction" I think is what Alan Greenspan called it) but I think that with the increase upon increase in technology the number of new jobs isn't equalling the old ones put out of business. We're just needing humans to do less and less.

That said, as far as illegals go, if they're being hired (and they are) then that says there is a market for them, today at least.

I agree that simply hiking the minimum wage to $15 will encourage business to use more technology to use fewer workers but that hike is an attempt to solve the problem of the people at the bottom getting so little so if that solution doesn't work then they'll just try something else. The inequality we see today is going to eventually become less via some mechanism or other.

Of course illegals are being hired. But what does that do to wages? If someone is willing to work construction for $10/hour, why would any company hire someone else at $20/hour. Illegal immigrants artificially lower labor costs. Why do you think the Chamber wants illegal workers?
 

op2

Sophomore
Mar 16, 2014
10,861
155
53
Of course illegals are being hired. But what does that do to wages? If someone is willing to work construction for $10/hour, why would any company hire someone else at $20/hour. Illegal immigrants artificially lower labor costs. Why do you think the Chamber wants illegal workers?

That's different than what you posted about before. There are two issues. One is that given the current labor market, illegals will be willing to do the same labor as legals but for less money. The other is that as technology expands the amount of labor will change because things will become more automated.

The illegals coming here today and working aren't being put out of work by automation. If they were they wouldn't be here. They'd go home or just not come in the first place.
 

WVPATX

Freshman
Jan 27, 2005
28,197
91
38
That's different than what you posted about before. There are two issues. One is that given the current labor market, illegals will be willing to do the same labor as legals but for less money. The other is that as technology expands the amount of labor will change because things will become more automated.

The illegals coming here today and working aren't being put out of work by automation. If they were they wouldn't be here. They'd go home or just not come in the first place.

Illegals depress wages which hurts lower and middle America. Technology will impact low skilled jobs in a huge way. Just as Hawking believes. It may not happen today, but it will happen and it will happen soon. When it does, we will have an enormous issue with illegals and lack of employment.
 

mneilmont

Sophomore
Jan 23, 2008
20,883
166
0
With the intro of technology, it just exacerbates the difference. And it goes directly to supply and demand economics. The demand for those with expertise in technology was greater than the demand in those who were standing doing the same repetitive task on an assembly line.

Smaller supply with ability in tech with greater demand for their ability is going to increase the pay for the man in tech. Assembly line that is enhanced by technology can produce more with fewer on the assembly line drives down the cost of labor. Those white collar workers now have growing salary and the blue collar worker wages going down. That redistributes to the white collar advantage.
 

mneilmont

Sophomore
Jan 23, 2008
20,883
166
0
With the intro of technology, it just exacerbates the difference. And it goes directly to supply and demand economics. The demand for those with expertise in technology was greater than the demand in those who were standing doing the same repetitive task on an assembly line.

Smaller supply with ability in tech with greater demand for their ability is going to increase the pay for the man in tech. Assembly line that is enhanced by technology can produce more with fewer on the assembly line drives down the cost of labor. Those white collar workers now have growing salary and the blue collar worker wages going down. That redistributes to the white collar advantage.
 

WhiteTailEER

Sophomore
Jun 17, 2005
11,534
170
0
The illegals coming here today and working aren't being put out of work by automation. If they were they wouldn't be here. They'd go home or just not come in the first place.

The illegals come here and do things that can't be automated that Americans don't want to do. Some of the things they don't want to do aren't because they are lazy, but because the work is seasonal. Maybe they have families they don't want to move around and things like that. It isn't just fruit. I just read an article the other day that a lot of immigrants are working at extracting the meat from crabs after the watermen bring them in and they've been steamed, things like that.
 

bornaneer

Senior
Jan 23, 2014
29,830
481
83
The illegals come here and do things that can't be automated that Americans don't want to do. Some of the things they don't want to do aren't because they are lazy, but because the work is seasonal. Maybe they have families they don't want to move around and things like that. It isn't just fruit. I just read an article the other day that a lot of immigrants are working at extracting the meat from crabs after the watermen bring them in and they've been steamed, things like that.

It's much more than fruit. I have visited hundreds of meat,seafood and produce facilities all over this country. I would say that 98% of the floor workers are from the south of our southern border. No difference if it was Boston vs. LA, Miami vs. Phila ,New York vs. Houston or a one stoplight town in the middle of Nebraska or Utah.
 

WVPATX

Freshman
Jan 27, 2005
28,197
91
38
It's much more than fruit. I have visited hundreds of meat,seafood and produce facilities all over this country. I would say that 98% of the floor workers are from the south of our southern border. No difference if it was Boston vs. LA, Miami vs. Phila ,New York vs. Houston or a one stoplight town in the middle of Nebraska or Utah.

Yes, he's dreaming if he thinks it's limited to fruit picking. I live in Dallas and they are working in every business around from construction to fast food.
 

op2

Sophomore
Mar 16, 2014
10,861
155
53
I disagree that technology leaves people miserably poor. Technology definitely has an affect on the economy.

I don't think technology leaves people miserably poor. I think generally speaking that technology is a great thing. But it's getting so good that it's replacing the need for human labor more and more and somehow the paradigm in all this has to change. In the end people have to do something and the something they do has to provide them with a decent standard of living.
 

dave

Senior
May 29, 2001
275,703
733
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I don't think technology leaves people miserably poor. I think generally speaking that technology is a great thing. But it's getting so good that it's replacing the need for human labor more and more and somehow the paradigm in all this has to change. In the end people have to do something and the something they do has to provide them with a decent standard of living.
It doesnt replace labor imo. It shifts labor. Technology also enhances labor. Generally speaking Americans really dont know what it means to be poor. At least relatively speaking the poorest Americans have a lot compared to many places.
 

Mntneer

Sophomore
Oct 7, 2001
438,167
196
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It doesnt replace labor imo. It shifts labor. Technology also enhances labor. Generally speaking Americans really dont know what it means to be poor. At least relatively speaking the poorest Americans have a lot compared to many places.

And the cost of technology drops over time. More "poor" can afford newer technology than they could 20 years ago.