Timothy McVeigh decided to go ahead and check out early.
Do you support the death penalty?
- Thread starter J_Dee
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Timothy McVeigh decided to go ahead and check out early.
I do - & quick so as to not waste time & money on appeals.
Definitely yes and if there is no reasonable doubt, expedite it.
Last year there was 2,436 people on death row. That's between $146,160,000 and $170,520,000 to take care of them all a year. Supposedly $60k to $70k each, but have found numbers much higher. Imagine what could be done with money like that.
They need to cutback on costs for the general population as well. It's ridiculous that a family can survive on the cost of taking care of 1 prisoner.
Last year there was 2,436 people on death row. That's between $146,160,000 and $170,520,000 to take care of them all a year. Supposedly $60k to $70k each, but have found numbers much higher. Imagine what could be done with money like that.
They need to cutback on costs for the general population as well. It's ridiculous that a family can survive on the cost of taking care of 1 prisoner.
Dahmer, Bundy and Gacy say hi.
It isn't impossible to do which is why the DP should be for the most heinous of crimes.
There is so much DNA technology now that it is hard to imagine innocent people being sentenced to death in 2022.
It should be eye for an eye when it comes to violent crime but that isn't realistic. However, if someone takes an innocent person's life intentionally and there is DNA evidence to confirm that person should never see the light of day again.
Very similar to the man who was a victim of abuse as a child on the Ghislaine Maxwell jury - which her legal team is now using as an argument to overturn the guilty verdict. Not sure how successful the argument will be, sure seemed like the evidence of guilt was overwhelming.
I support voluntary death penelty given as an option to life with no parole
I support it for obvious and heinous crimes. I do not support dragging it out or spending so much on it. Firing squad or feeding them to bengal tigers is fine
He got what he deserved. With a broken broom handle no less. Screw him
The United States is probably the only country that allows all the appeals and other ********. Russia and countries like Iran and the people convicted disappear like a raindrop. Our system is ridiculous.
Mixed thoughts. On principle I say not bc I don't think the state should have the power to take your life...they don't own it. I don't feel sorry for the criminal tho. But clearly it isn't a deterrent.
With that being said there's no reason people like ted bundy should be allowed on the planet.
Also, death penalty is fairly rare outside of Texas in states its legal. I think KY has had 3 since 1976
With that being said there's no reason people like ted bundy should be allowed on the planet.
Also, death penalty is fairly rare outside of Texas in states its legal. I think KY has had 3 since 1976
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Most certainly and there have been several I would like to be the one pulling the plug. I remember when Ted Bundy was executed the radio had a "play by play" and when it was time he called for everyone listening to the radio to turn down their lights to make sure there was enough power to fry him.
My problem is the endless appeals that makes a mockery of the judicial system. Once a criminal is sentenced to death there should be an appeal within 10 days to a special appeals court for death sentences. They can study the case, look for errors and if they find something have a re-trial or change it to a life sentence. If all is above board and meets the criteria of the law, set an execution date for 10 days and finalize it with the death of the criminal. Not house them for 15 to 20 or more years. It is not fair to the taxpayers.
My problem is the endless appeals that makes a mockery of the judicial system. Once a criminal is sentenced to death there should be an appeal within 10 days to a special appeals court for death sentences. They can study the case, look for errors and if they find something have a re-trial or change it to a life sentence. If all is above board and meets the criteria of the law, set an execution date for 10 days and finalize it with the death of the criminal. Not house them for 15 to 20 or more years. It is not fair to the taxpayers.
I choose letting the victim's family getting to decide what type of suffering to put the guilty through; ...
But unfortunately, there are many forgiving types out there, so...
At a minimum there should be a swift, effective death penalty system for those obviously heinous acts.
The victim’s family - and I hate to say this - should have no say in this. The crime is against the state. It’s reasonable to keep it this way as the amount of anger or forgiveness a family feels shouldn’t influence punishment. Justice should be blind in this regard.
Pro death penalty btw.
It is as a bargaining chip for the prosecution. For instance, Gary Ridgway made a deal with the prosecution to reveal all his murders if he avoided the death penalty.
For that alone, I would support it but I also fully support it on moral grounds. As stated here though, our system is not particularly well done.
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See above example... if that was your 10yo? Plenty more examples like it, as well.
As far as i'm concerned the "State" has woefully underperformed here
Yeah, but we didn't hear the "other side". I'm sure the offenders didn't have a great childhood, or had ADHD, or were picked on at some point. Can't blame them for their evil actions of course.
Are you saying we should emulate Russia and Iran? That kind of flies in the face of all of our supposed values.
some of these trials take months. Do you really think an appeal could be prepared in 10 days? While I agree that 20 years is too long, there has to be time for a legitimate appeal. BTW, I am opposed to the death penalty on several grounds: 1. If my child is killed and I kill whoever did it, I get convicted of murder. Why does the state get to do it if I can't? 2. I'm not really religious, but the religion I do have tells me to forgive, while punishing those that have sinned. 3. There have been too many innocent people executed because of their socioeconomic situation and inability to hire good counsel. It is not fair to only execute poor people. 4. Finally, we can't ignore the disproportionate sentences given to minorities.
You can also situations like the Larry Nassar trial where that awful judge allowed more people to read victim statements than there were crimes committed. It was just preening for media exposure and re-election.
Allowing victims to have a say in the outcome of criminal cases is fundamentally important, though. For instance, there have been a lot of rapists/chomos who got plea deals because the prosecutor talked with the victim and the trauma of having to testify was too much for the victim to bear.
None...In the Old Testament days, they had an avenger for you if you could not do it.
False.
Genesis 9:6
“Whoever sheds the blood of man, by man shall his blood be shed, for God made man in his own image.Genesis 9:6. Whoso sheddeth man’s blood — Whether upon a sudden provocation, or premeditated, (for rash anger is heart-murder, as well as malice prepense, Matthew 5:21-22,) by man shall his blood be shed — That is, by the magistrate, or whoever is appointed to be the avenger of blood.
Those who oppose the death penalty are often the first to argue a Christian can not be for the death penalty and also the first to argue our nation should not be Judeo-Christian in values.
America has a separation of Church and State and courts do not go to the Bible when deciding cases. They follow the law which is based on our Constitution and Bill of Rights.
The only problem with our death penalty is it is not used enough and there are too many appeals and delays. Once those who are opposed argue the Bible, the discussion is over. They are grasping for straws and referencing something they do not believe is the literal Word of God. Nor do they understanding it's meaning.
The death penalty is not a deterrent right now because sentences aren't being carried out in a timely manner. The prison system is milking the people through the politicians rather than working as it's meant to work.
Endless appeals, plea bargains, judges being able to receive money, and other parts of the process are delaying justice and preventing it altogether for those that can afford to buy their way out of jail time. The system is broken and needs to be rebuilt as intended.
Endless appeals, plea bargains, judges being able to receive money, and other parts of the process are delaying justice and preventing it altogether for those that can afford to buy their way out of jail time. The system is broken and needs to be rebuilt as intended.
Anybody on this thread actually sat on a death penalty jury, where you had to look a man in the face and sentence him to die? My office manager was on the Trinity high school murder case, I know many of you will remember the case where two boys who went to Trinity were murdered, which went on for three weeks, she told me it was one the worst experiences of her life.
I have not, but years ago, sat on a jury for a serious sex assault case, was basically a "he said/she said" case, 35 years ago, none of the more scientific evidence we have today. Took two days of deliberation, but we finally convicted him. I found out later he had a long criminal history, I am convinced we did the right thing and he got what he deserved, but I will say walking back into the courtroom, with the defendant's family sitting right behind him, and sending him to prison for 10 plus years was a sobering experience.
I have not, but years ago, sat on a jury for a serious sex assault case, was basically a "he said/she said" case, 35 years ago, none of the more scientific evidence we have today. Took two days of deliberation, but we finally convicted him. I found out later he had a long criminal history, I am convinced we did the right thing and he got what he deserved, but I will say walking back into the courtroom, with the defendant's family sitting right behind him, and sending him to prison for 10 plus years was a sobering experience.
You can contort the Bible to match any belief you hold. It condones peace and also violence. One passage wants you to forgive while another will talk of vengeance, so in my view, toss that whole argument out the window. There's probably a passage that would condone me walking up to someone and slapping them, while 35 pages later condemning that action.
Ultimately, I think the penalty should be used for the most extreme cases. There's not a doubt in my mind that if McVeigh were alive with a life sentence, every five years media outlets would be interviewing him. There'd be Netflix specials, Dateline "how is he doing" type segments, etc. He'd be a celebrity much like Manson became. Because of the death penalty (and also because the trial wasn't a clown show), what happened isn't forgotten, but the man is never thought about now. He's not a modern day celebrity. And yes, the process takes far too long, but we can't even get the NCAA right, so what do you expect? Louisville won't even get their final ruling on the FBI stuff until the fall, which is hilarious but also ridiculous.
Ultimately, I think the penalty should be used for the most extreme cases. There's not a doubt in my mind that if McVeigh were alive with a life sentence, every five years media outlets would be interviewing him. There'd be Netflix specials, Dateline "how is he doing" type segments, etc. He'd be a celebrity much like Manson became. Because of the death penalty (and also because the trial wasn't a clown show), what happened isn't forgotten, but the man is never thought about now. He's not a modern day celebrity. And yes, the process takes far too long, but we can't even get the NCAA right, so what do you expect? Louisville won't even get their final ruling on the FBI stuff until the fall, which is hilarious but also ridiculous.
Agreed, yet...
The problem with both of those last two forms of evidence is the government and those that finance the officials have access to nearly everyone's dna now (through covid testing and ancestry companies) and digital manipulation is so advanced that anyone can be framed up if they are targeted for any reason.
I don't think this negates the validity of the death penalty, neither do I think economic status, "race," religion, or any other "special status" excuses murdering someone. If, in the course of a robbery or theft (any crime), the thief (criminal) kills someone, it's murder. The death penalty should apply.
No one can contort the Word of God. They only contort their image of it, even as you do here.
Probably haven't read it or you'd know better. Forgiveness does not negate punishment. It just guarantees restoration if repentance is true.
David allowed Uriah to be murdered in battle, because he had his military men withdraw from him during a battle. He was forgiven, but he was also still punished. It's worth reading to understand accountability and responsibility.
The world is full of stories of vengeance and forgiveness. The Bible simply illustrates the corruption of the world. To condemn it as a written work for being accurate is petty and small. No one condemns works of fiction or non-fiction/history when they accurately describe the corruption of humanity, yet they won't hesitate to condemn the Bible for the same accuracy. It's strange
Yep. Corruption is nearly universal.
Never sat in on a death penalty case, but I have seen (and heard) friends, enemies and neutrals die, some in the most excruciating deaths you can imagine. It's been over 50 years, but I can hear the screams as I type. I would still vote yes for the death penalty and maintain it should not be a long drawn out wait for the execution.
Sat on a jury of a woman last year who was accused of physical abuse on her son. She had 4 other children taken away from her in two other states for similar charges and fled the states. The pictures for this son were hard to look at and an expert doctor gave timeline for each (some a couple of years old). The last was a scar starting below the right eye all the way up past his cheek bone. Many stitches for the cut originally. Boy's back looked like Rambo's in First Blood. Evidence was overwhelming and the boy's testimony (wore a spiderman suit so no one could see him) told everyone that his mother did it. She claimed a boyfriend did it. Two counts were charged, Physical abuse and child endangerment. When we deliberated and took a vote 11 of the 12 were guilty on the first count. One was not guilty because the man said he was not there and that he could not send a black woman to prison because of this country's past dealings with people of color.
He would not change his mind on the first count so all but three of us jurors changed their vote because most wanted to get out of there and go home (getting late). He was not going to vote guilty on the second until he realized I would not give in unless we got some prison time for this woman so, in a compromise he voted with everyone on the second charge which could get up to 10 years and we were the ones who would set it with the judge's approval. Needless to say, he would not give in to 10 so we settled on 2 with one already served because of covid keeping her in jail because trials were put on hold until the courts could resume.
In the end, she will serve more time because when her time is up here she must go to Chicago for the same type charges and then to Minnesota for the same. Long road.
Wth does distant history of less than 1% of a country have to do with current, individual accountability? This is why this country is screwed. If people won't punish someone because of the color of their skin, racism will never end, but this country will.
I can support the death penalty only if there is no doubt about guilt.
No doubt? Yes. It deters violent crime.
I can't, however, support it if there is a chance that an innocent person is being executed.
I think that's fairly normal and obvious.
No doubt? Yes. It deters violent crime.
I can't, however, support it if there is a chance that an innocent person is being executed.
I think that's fairly normal and obvious.
He apparently does not understand context.
Against. Do you think we've ever gotten a single one wrong? If yes, then all the murderers/rapists in the world being executed doesn't outweigh the innocent person losing their life IMO
Jury system is by no means perfect (OJ Simpson ring a bell?), when I get a chance I would rather try cases to the Judge only, not to a jury (for one thing, it is a HELL of a lot faster and cheaper for the client, but I only handle civil cases, defendant has a constitutional right to a jury in criminal cases).
Had a friend sat on a drug trafficing case and had the same experience you did, cops got a tip, found drugs, cash, guns, and a scale in the dude's trunk . . . . but one woman would not vote guilty, said someone could have planted all that evidence just to make him look guilty
Getting one wrong doesn't negate the ones gotten right. Getting one right doesn't negate getting one wrong. NONE OF THEM have to do with each other. One person's innocence doesn't negate the guilt of 1, 10, or 100 others.
Each trial is supposed to be based on its own merits, which is why it is wrong to judge 200 million people today for the sins of 100-1000 from 100-150 years ago.
We need to stop thinking of things as a "if one innocent person dies than it all needs to be thrown out" extreme fallacy. That's just a bunch of Hollywood BS that even they don't believe. It's drama. It's ignorant.
We also need to stop courts from looking at a rapist, abuser, or murderer from the standpoint of "what about the good they could do going forward" or "what about the money they gave to charity for years" viewpoint. Look at the case. Look at the evidence. Look at the loss of dignity, the terror, the emotional harm, and the loss of life of the victim or victims. I'm tired of seeing them treat rape as a victimless crime. Same for child sexual abuse.
Not sure you ever read the book from the beginning to the end. Try it, God never changes but thankfully, we can all receive his grace. Grace is supplied in both living, and death. Not your’s to choose, but your’s to accept it.
You should have gone directly to the judge with that. It should have been covered during the jury interview part of the trial, and they're supposed to filter out those who will not make a fair decision based on the law.
I used to, but don't anymore. Not only does our justice system sometimes get it wrong, seems barbaric, not unlike abortion. We are not God.