Does Collins Even Want to Stay?

[phatcat_rivals223240]

Fair points by you and 7th circuit. I might surmise that other coaches had a bit of a tough time adjusting to Collins’s team’s style and were even surprised by NU over the first few years. Who knows how much luck was involved in 2016-17. How we didn’t fare as well in 2017-18 is, as we know, the great mystery. But we eventually come to the point of asking - was the subsequent purported increase in talent just not as high as all thought, or does Collins underutilize it? Kopp certainly proves the former. We can keep debating on others. I don’t buy Gato’s argument that Collins is just waltzing through a “cushy AF” job; he’s much too competitive for that, and he loves those kids way too much (and they appear to love him as well in return) for him to treat them that way.

yeah, it's the same with Fitz. I'm sure they are both miserable with the losses. Doesn't make me feel any better, but I don't think they are laughing at us and lighting cigars with $100 bills. This has to suck for them.

I've been in the Golden Handcuffs situation from 2010-20, in a company consistently losing money. It isn't fun. It weighs on you.

 

[GatoLouco]

I don’t buy Gato’s argument that Collins is just waltzing through a “cushy AF” job; he’s much too competitive for that, and he loves those kids way too much (and they appear to love him as well in return) for him to treat them that way.

The point is not whether he is cruising. That's you wanting to read what you want to read.

The point is that was his not a cushy job, even if were the most competitive man, with the most love for his players in the world, he'd be out, or on his way out.

 

[SDakaGordie]

The point is not whether he is cruising. That's you wanting to read what you want to read.

The point is that was his not a cushy job, even if were the most competitive man, with the most love for his players in the world, he'd be out, or on his way out.

So you are saying it is a cushy job, right? Just trying to read what you are writing.

 

[Purple Pile Driver]

Agreed, there is more. But hasn't the biggest issue, admissions, been widely debated here?

Yes

 

[GatoLouco]

So you are saying it is a cushy job, right? Just trying to read what you are writing.

Sure, if you want to argue semantics. No P6 job comes with so little expectations and so long before you are on the hot seat. That's not to say it's not a hard job with serious risk of burying a career. If being hard makes it not cushy, than it isn't. We can continue to focus this on semantics, but that is a useless exercise.

The point is, call it cushy or not, the environment and expectations around the NU HC position explain why he's still on the job, and will be at least through next year.

 

[PurpleWhiteBoy]

If you had a 10 year deal and there were two years left on it and the bossman came and said "Look, we have lost faith in you and we would rather have you resign and find a new place to work" is your first reaction "I'm not leaving - suck an egg?"

If its me and I have some pride, I negotiate a buyout.

But thats me.

The rest of it - "most love for his players in the history of basketball" is just wild speculation and means nothing in this context.

 

[phatcat_rivals223240]

If you had a 10 year deal and there were two years left on it and the bossman came and said "Look, we have lost faith in you and we would rather have you resign and find a new place to work" is your firts reaction "I'm not leaving - suck an egg?"

If its me and I have some pride, I negotiate a buyout.

But thats me.

The rest of it - "most love for his players in the history of basketball" is just wild speculation and means nothing in this context.

it's 3 years, isn't it? Anyway, I suppose I'd be willing to negotiate a buyout, but I'd negotiate pretty hard. Why would you leave anywhere near 50% of the contract on the table? Maybe "leave now but get 2 years pay' with the idea that he could find another role, without clawback, and earn what he otherwise would have in that third year.

 

[Catreporter]

How we didn’t fare as well in 2017-18 is, as we know, the great mystery.

No mystery to me. McIntosh hurt his knee in December against Brown (I was there). Wasn't the same player and then he reinjured it later in the season. He was the heart and soul of the team and without him, they crashed and burned.

 

[Username Not Available]

If you had a 10 year deal and there were two years left on it and the bossman came and said "Look, we have lost faith in you and we would rather have you resign and find a new place to work" is your firts reaction "I'm not leaving - suck an egg?"

If its me and I have some pride, I negotiate a buyout.

But thats me.

The rest of it - "most love for his players in the history of basketball" is just wild speculation and means nothing in this context.

My response to that kind of thing is, I'm sorry you've lost faith in me. I've got three years, let's see if I can't restore your faith before I leave.

 

[PurpleWhiteBoy]

No mystery to me. McIntosh hurt his knee in December against Brown (I was there). Wasn't the same player and then he reinjured it later in the season. He was the heart and soul of the team and without him, they crashed and burned.

I'm sure the injury to McIntosh hurt, but we had no quality depth after losing Taphorn and Lumpkin.
Benson was effective with Lumpkin, but ineffective with Skelly, so losing Lumpkin affected him negatively.
Skelly became a starter and anytime we went to the bench, we suffered.

The bench was freshman Aaron Falzon, freshman Anthony Gaines, Barret Benson and Isaiah Brown.

 

[Purple Pile Driver]

If you had a 10 year deal and there were two years left on it and the bossman came and said "Look, we have lost faith in you and we would rather have you resign and find a new place to work" is your first reaction "I'm not leaving - suck an egg?"

If its me and I have some pride, I negotiate a buyout.

But thats me.

The rest of it - "most love for his players in the history of basketball" is just wild speculation and means nothing in this context.

We don’t know if the bossman has said that. I highly doubt anyone who said that would expect a different result going forward. It not like the HC is going to say, boy, my boss now means business, better get my *** in gear. He knows the record isn’t good enough. It foolish to think otherwise.

if the Invisible man feels this way, then fire him. Pay the buyout and stop the nonsense that the buyout is too steep.

 

[SDakaGordie]

Sure, if you want to argue semantics. No P6 job comes with so little expectations and so long before you are on the hot seat. That's not to say it's not a hard job with serious risk of burying a career. If being hard makes it not cushy, than it isn't. We can continue to focus this on semantics, but that is a useless exercise.

The point is, call it cushy or not, the environment and expectations around the NU HC position explain why he's still on the job, and will be at least through next year.

I certainly don’t think we are arguing semantics - I don’t see this at all as a cushy job, which you stated it is; call it a useless discussion if you want, but that’s not fair. It flies in the face of others with similar opinions arguing that someone of sound mind should never have even taken the job.

The job has lower expectations for reasons we all know. Implying that “the environment and expectations” mean that NU just accepts a losing culture is also unfair, in my opinion. I do think Strotz accepted a losing culture; he could have cared less about sports. Since then, for a long time at NU, I think we have strived for a winning culture that values the student just as much as the athlete, which acknowledges that we have built-in limitations (that seem to grow rather than reduce in the day and age we are in with our sports-dominated culture). The administration is just not willing to go cold turkey and remove admissions requirements, and most of us want that to continue. Given that we limit our pool, we frankly just have a lot higher probability of missing on recruits. And of course, our talent level is just lower. (Our talent level being lower is why we also underperform at the end of the year / in the BTT; the cream always rises to the top).

The question to me is: how do you quantify the extent of those limitations in order to fairly evaluate a coach’s performance? Collins surely FAR exceeded reasonable expectations by improving year over year and ultimately getting us to the NCAA. We all drank the Kool Aid and errantly raised our expectations. He would have been god-like if he had continued that trend. We just can’t get the talent needed to do it. The fall was expected if we didn’t drink the Kool Aid. It certainly was quicker and deeper than any of us hoped, but it just can’t be viewed as that unexpected, given our limitations.

So, what’s the way to look at this? We got to the NCAAs once in 80 years; what’s our expected return period now? 1 in 10 would be pretty amazing. Others have said 1 in 5; that’s on the optimistic side given our limitations (and new facilities just don’t justify this difference), but a good stretch goal. What we are seeing now from this team in terms of competitiveness (as discussed and demonstrated) is just unworthy of his firing in this light.

 

[7th Cir. Cat]

I certainly don’t think we are arguing semantics - I don’t see this at all as a cushy job, which you stated it is; call it a useless discussion if you want, but that’s not fair. It flies in the face of others with similar opinions arguing that someone of sound mind should never have even taken the job.

The question to me is: how do you quantify the extent of those limitations in order to fairly evaluate a coach’s performance? Collins surely FAR exceeded reasonable expectations by improving year over year and ultimately getting us to the NCAA. We all drank the Kool Aid and errantly raised our expectations. He would have been god-like if he had continued that trend. We just can’t get the talent needed to do it. The fall was expected if we didn’t drink the Kool Aid. It certainly was quicker and deeper than any of us hoped, but it just can’t be viewed as that unexpected, given our limitations.

"Cushy" is not the right word (I don't know what is) but NU's coach makes millions of dollars per year while finishing near the bottom of the confernce year in and year out and still has great job security. I say "cushy" isn't the right fit because the job at NU is very, very difficult. It's not a do nothing (or in Chicago parlance a "no show" job) But the fact that you can lose a ton of games without having to worry about job status is rare for a P5 coach.

At NU, you can be handsomely rewarded solely for putting forth a good effort and that's what makes the job different. As long as you try hard and don't embarass the university, the ultimate results on the court are somewhat secondary. Play hard, don't get blown out, be competitive. That's why I think some would call it "cushy" There is no other P5 coach that can only make the tournament once every 10 years. and not worry about their job. Collins hasn't lost the team and they still try hard is common talking point that I've seen. Most places that's simply not enough.

The NU job is probably the most unique in college basketball. In Collins 8 full seasons. We have finished 10th places or lower 6 times. Once we finished 9th and one year we made the tournament. His career winning percentage in the BIG is .331 (55-111). I understand that might be great for NU, but that gets you canned anywhere else.

 

[GatoLouco]

I certainly don’t think we are arguing semantics - I don’t see this at all as a cushy job, which you stated it is; call it a useless discussion if you want, but that’s not fair. It flies in the face of others with similar opinions arguing that someone of sound mind should never have even taken the job.

The job has lower expectations for reasons we all know. Implying that “the environment and expectations” mean that NU just accepts a losing culture is also unfair, in my opinion. I do think Strotz accepted a losing culture; he could have cared less about sports. Since then, for a long time at NU, I think we have strived for a winning culture that values the student just as much as the athlete, which acknowledges that we have built-in limitations (that seem to grow rather than reduce in the day and age we are in with our sports-dominated culture). The administration is just not willing to go cold turkey and remove admissions requirements, and most of us want that to continue. Given that we limit our pool, we frankly just have a lot higher probability of missing on recruits. And of course, our talent level is just lower. (Our talent level being lower is why we also underperform at the end of the year / in the BTT; the cream always rises to the top).

The question to me is: how do you quantify the extent of those limitations in order to fairly evaluate a coach’s performance? Collins surely FAR exceeded reasonable expectations by improving year over year and ultimately getting us to the NCAA. We all drank the Kool Aid and errantly raised our expectations. He would have been god-like if he had continued that trend. We just can’t get the talent needed to do it. The fall was expected if we didn’t drink the Kool Aid. It certainly was quicker and deeper than any of us hoped, but it just can’t be viewed as that unexpected, given our limitations.

So, what’s the way to look at this? We got to the NCAAs once in 80 years; what’s our expected return period now? 1 in 10 would be pretty amazing. Others have said 1 in 5; that’s on the optimistic side given our limitations (and new facilities just don’t justify this difference), but a good stretch goal. What we are seeing now from this team in terms of competitiveness (as discussed and demonstrated) is just unworthy of his firing in this light.

Again, my post was not about whether CC is a good coach or not. It was not about whether he is evaluated fairly or not. You are trying to hijack the conversation into that realm. That is something we have discussed a lot, but that was not what the post was about.

The post was about the fact that literally everywhere else (at least in P6 basketball), he'd be out, or on his way out. Disagree all you want, but there's not a single reporter making any tough questions that become the talk of the town. There are no disruptive fans booing the coach in the stands. It's a damn hard job, one can argue harder than anywhere else. But there is nowhere else where our level of performance gets you these many years at the helm.

 

[SDakaGordie]

I don’t disagree with your assessments on our unique situation. But to say it is irrelevant to a discussion about how we view our coach just seems like you are moving the goalposts. And I think it’s a stretch to say I hijacked anything when 99% of what people say on these threads have implications about or references to (like yours above) Collins’ performance. It ultimately doesn’t matter about other schools; it matters about us, as we are different.

 

[Purple Pile Driver]

"Cushy" is not the right word (I don't know what is) but NU's coach can make millions of dollars per year while finishing near the bottom of the confernce year in and year out and still have great job security. I say "cushy" isn't the right fit because the job at NU is very, very difficult. It's not a do nothing (or in Chicago parlance a "no show" job) But the fact that you can lose a ton of games without having to worry about job status is rare for a P5 coach.

At NU, you can be handsomely rewarded solely for putting forth a good effort and that's what makes the job different. As long as you try hard and don't embarass the university, the ultimate results on the court are somewhat secondary. Play hard, don't get blown out, be competitive. That's why I think some would call it "cushy" There is no other P5 coach that can only make the tournament once every 10 years. and not worry about their job. Collins hasn't lost the team and they still try hard is common talking point that I've seen. Most places that's simply not enough.

The NU job is probably the most unique in college basketball. In Collins 8 full seasons. We have finished 10th places or lower 6 times. Once we finished 9th and one year we made the tournament. His career winning percentage in the BIG is .331 (55-111). I understand that might be great for NU, but that gets you canned anywhere else.

At least the Administration is consistent in their expectations. Since they do very little to assist in the building of a program.

 

[lou v]

He won’t succeed ( nor will anyone else) until there is a complete paradigm shift in how NU treats Men’s basketball. The powers to be don’t care about fielding a competitive team OR they have no idea what steps to take to start down a path of doing so.

I'd like to know what steps NU should take to field a competitive team. They made one NCAA Tournament in their history. They immediately followed that up with locking up the coach with a long-term contract. They sunk $110 million into a complete stadium renovation. They built all new practice facilities/locker rooms, etc. They raised the salary of assistant coaches. That's not a paradigm shift? What else were they supposed to do?

 

[PurpleWhiteBoy]

I'd like to know what steps NU should take to field a competitive team. They made one NCAA Tournament in their history. They immediately followed that up with locking up the coach with a long-term contract. They sunk $110 million into a complete stadium renovation. They built all new practice facilities/locker rooms, etc. They raised the salary of assistant coaches. That's not a paradigm shift? What else were they supposed to do?

Well we do have a competitive team, but I will answer for the people you're addressing...

"cut NU's already relaxed admission standards to whatever Michigan State does."

In other words - we need better players because Collins is not going to make the NCAA tournament without above average Big Ten talent, so the only way HE can succeed in his job is to admit kids who can't handle the coursework.

Or we could just take advantage of being the most prestigious school in the Big Ten and hire a new coach.

 

[NJCat]

Since they do very little to assist in the building of a program.

Other than spending $120M on basketball facilities......

 

[Purple Pile Driver]

I'd like to know what steps NU should take to field a competitive team. They made one NCAA Tournament in their history. They immediately followed that up with locking up the coach with a long-term contract. They sunk $110 million into a complete stadium renovation. They built all new practice facilities/locker rooms, etc. They raised the salary of assistant coaches. That's not a paradigm shift? What else were they supposed to do?

Ah, the old facilities upgrade argument. You are correct, that it is very difficult with horrendous facilities which we most certainly had. However, I maintain, facilities are table stakes for any P6 team. I do not believe a single recruit came to NU because of facilities, but at least now they don’t NOT come to NU because of th3 facilities.

So I will repeat some suggestions that I believe would help:

1) adjust admissions to put NU on a level playing field. This narrative that these players won’t cut in the classroom hasn’t been tested. Let’s face it, the athletes get a lot of support that the average Joe doesn’t. When by some estimates only 20% of the top 100 players each year would pass admissions. That’s a problem when it comes to winning. If the powers that be at NU want to keep things the way they are, that’s fine, but the results are to be expected. They probably realize this as they tend o give their HC’s a long tenure before replacing them.

2) Figure out how to leverage both influencial boosters and Chicagoland market to take full advantage of NIL opportunities,

3) Make any attempt to liven up the WR atmosphere. The students and the season ticket holders need to be close to the court. Wilson Club is a disaster. Convince the Fat Cats that it is in everyone’s best interest that this happens. Give the donors exclusive rights to other amenities that recognize their generosity.

4) pick up the Marketing of the team. My Goodness, what has happened to us in this area.

5) Make an effort to increase African American enrollment with students that come from the same background and neighborhoods as many of our recruits. You know find ways to make it work rather than reasons it won’t work.

This is my definition of paradigm shift, not keeping you hands out waiting for the Ryan family and other wealthy donors to build a shiny house on a foundation that is bound to crumble.

 

[Purple Pile Driver]

Well we do have a competitive team, but I will answer for the people you're addressing...

"cut NU's already relaxed admission standards to whatever Michigan State does."

In other words - we need better players because Collins is not going to make the NCAA tournament without above average Big Ten talent, so the only way HE can succeed in his job is to admit kids who can't handle the coursework.

Or we could just take advantage of being the most prestigious school in the Big Ten and hire a new coach.

Thanks for answering for me. My comments are posted and guess what, one of them wasn’t fire the Coach .

 

[PurpleWhiteBoy]

Thanks for answering for me. My comments are posted and guess what, one of them wasn’t fire the Coach .

Right! Thats as expected. Ignore the elephant. Focus on the abstract.
Most of what you wrote is about getting people to root for NU and show up at Welsh Ryan.
When you have the wrong guy running the program, that ain't gonna happen.

 

[lou v]

Ah, the old facilities upgrade argument. You are correct, that it is very difficult with horrendous facilities which we most certainly had. However, I maintain, facilities are table stakes for any P6 team. I do not believe a single recruit came to NU because of facilities, but at least now they don’t NOT come to NU because of th3 facilities.

So I will repeat some suggestions that I believe would help:

1) adjust admissions to put NU on a level playing field. This narrative that these players won’t cut in the classroom hasn’t been tested. Let’s face it, the athletes get a lot of support that the average Joe doesn’t. When by some estimates only 20% of the top 100 players each year would pass admissions. That’s a problem when it comes to winning. If the powers that be at NU want to keep things the way they are, that’s fine, but the results are to be expected. They probably realize this as they tend o give their HC’s a long tenure before replacing them.

2) Figure out how to leverage both influencial boosters and Chicagoland market to take full advantage of NIL opportunities,

3) Make any attempt to liven up the WR atmosphere. The students and the season ticket holders need to be close to the court. Wilson Club is a disaster. Convince the Fat Cats that it is in everyone’s best interest that this happens. Give the donors exclusive rights to other amenities that recognize their generosity.

4) pick up the Marketing of the team. My Goodness, what has happened to us in this area.

5) Make an effort to increase African American enrollment with students that come from the same background and neighborhoods as many of our recruits. You know find ways to make it work rather than reasons it won’t work.

This is my definition of paradigm shift, not keeping you hands out waiting for the Ryan family and other wealthy donors to build a shiny house on a foundation that is bound to crumble.

Thank you. Good stuff.

1. This is a non-starter, and I think you know that.

2. I agree. NU is working on that, as we speak. I know it's a priority for the athletic department. Certainly for Fitz.

3. Couldn't agree more. I think they deserve some credit here, though. They are trying. They have all kinds of marketing events -- '80s nights, '90s nights, $22 night on 2/22, a DJ, Spivak as the game MC, tons of giveaways. They do a lot. The Wilson Club thing is a definite issue, however. Maybe the answer is some sort of program to give tickets away when the high rollers are not attending -- though that doesn't address the issue of those who just stay in the Wilson Club all night. We know that students aren't going to fill seats all the way around the court. That one will require some work, no question.

4. See above. They still do all the same local advertising here, too, with radio, billboards, etc. I think their social team does a pretty good job, too. There are only so many budget dollars to go around, but they need to look at what they're doing -- because it ain't working.

5. That's a good example of an out-of-the-box idea. I just read a story about how minority enrollment is up across the board at B1G universities, but that the number of black students is falling.

 

[lou v]

Right! Thats as expected. Ignore the elephant. Focus on the abstract.
Most of what you wrote is about getting people to root for NU and show up at Welsh Ryan.
When you have the wrong guy running the program, that ain't gonna happen.

He was the right guy back in 2017, though, wasn't he? So they locked him up with a long-term deal. That's what any program committed to building a program would do. Sometimes it works out (Steve Piekell at Rutgers). Sometimes it doesn't.

 

[willycat]

Right! Thats as expected. Ignore the elephant. Focus on the abstract.
Most of what you wrote is about getting people to root for NU and show up at Welsh Ryan.
When you have the wrong guy running the program, that ain't gonna happen.

Which guy (coach) got consistent, purple clad crows into W-R? Who?

 

[PurpleWhiteBoy]

Which guy (coach) got consistent, purple clad crows into W-R? Who?

You're talking about one year with Collins.

 

[Sec_112]

So I will repeat some suggestions that I believe would help:

I know we want to make this all about Collins. But these mostly were challenges for Carmody, etc also. And I'd bet the house they will be issues five years into the tenure of the next guy.

Yes, the arena and the practice facility were HUGE. Honestly, I'm surprised Phillips and company were able to pull it off so quickly ahead of a Ryan Field renovation. Now, these are the next steps.

1) Admissions is the true elephant in the room. That's 80% of the issue.

I think the program will never be more than Minnesota basketball if that doesn't change. I don't care who the coach is.

2) If I were NU, NIL would scare the hell out of me. I think this is going to be a INCREDIBLY HUGE advantage for schools with a large established fan base.

Once again, NU isn't the only school with a few contacts near a large market. Imagine the opportunities that can come with Michigan and Michigan State and that little industry they have nearby. OSU, IU and Purdue probably have smaller media markets, but the basketball audience is probably much larger. For instance, our friend Miller Kopp has started a Cameo account since he went to IU. He must see some opportunity.

3) WR atmosphere - They've done a really nice job trying to add a bit of a club vibe to WR. I'm probably in the minority but I can do without the Guy Fieri ... uh, I mean Spivak act. But enthusiastic butts in the seats is really what makes a difference.

I can't imagine coming out of that tunnel every night and seeing that empty section.

I get the feeling that's like admissions. That's just part of the NU DNA that will never change unless there's a radical change that pisses off a few people. They could start with a huge change to get most fans downstairs. They should have a good idea what the true price point is for an NU game, and it ain't $90+ a ticket for the two middle sections.

However, like any sport and with few exceptions, the real answer is sustained winning.

4) Do you really think the marketing of the program has changed all that much compared to the last 3-5 years? I hear most of the same placements on the same stations.

I think they need to look hyper-locally and get Evanston and all the surrounding 'burbs much more involved. But it's pretty clear that interest from its own community has never been a real concern of NU. Odd.

 

[PurpleWhiteBoy]

He was the right guy back in 2017, though, wasn't he? So they locked him up with a long-term deal. That's what any program committed to building a program would do. Sometimes it works out (Steve Piekell at Rutgers). Sometimes it doesn't.

Collins got a 7 year deal in 2013.
He inherited some good players from Carmody (Olah, Cobb, Demps, Taphorn, Lumpkin)
and his original recruiting class (Law, McIntosh, Skelly, Lindsey) was good.
There was energy around the program.
We got ignored by the NIT when we went 20-12, 8-10 in the 2015-16 season, Collins' 3rd.
Recruiting had slipped after that exciting first class (Aaron Falzon & Dererk Pardon, then Isiah Brown & Barret Benson, then Anthony Gaines & Ivanauskas, who left quickly).
Everything came together in the 2016-17 season.
Then Collins ran on the court and cost us a good chance to beat Gonzaga.
It has been slowly down hill from there until this season, which has been a big disappointment nonetheless.

I knew something wasn't right (with Collins) when we played that year at Rosemont and failed so miserably.
I exited the bandwagon.

Unfortunately we had already committed another 8 years to the "miracle worker" on the heels of the NCAA appearance.

 

[GatoLouco]

I knew something wasn't right (with Collins) when we played that year at Rosemont and failed so miserably.
I exited the bandwagon.

I felt something was very wrong that season when we lost to Creighton. But don't even know why.

I was more optimistic. I got off the bandwagon at the endish of the season we got Ryan Taylor in the portal.

 

[BarefootCat]

CCC’s son Ryan is a Freshman right now at Northwestern, so I doubt CCC wants to leave anytime soon.

 

[lou v]

Collins got a 7 year deal in 2013.
He inherited some good players from Carmody (Olah, Cobb, Demps, Taphorn, Lumpkin)
and his original recruiting class (Law, McIntosh, Skelly, Lindsey) was good.
There was energy around the program.
We got ignored by the NIT when we went 20-12, 8-10 in the 2015-16 season, Collins' 3rd.
Recruiting had slipped after that exciting first class (Aaron Falzon & Dererk Pardon, then Isiah Brown & Barret Benson, then Anthony Gaines & Ivanauskas, who left quickly).
Everything came together in the 2016-17 season.
Then Collins ran on the court and cost us a good chance to beat Gonzaga.
It has been slowly down hill from there until this season, which has been a big disappointment nonetheless.

I knew something wasn't right (with Collins) when we played that year at Rosemont and failed so miserably.
I exited the bandwagon.

Unfortunately we had already committed another 8 years to the "miracle worker" on the heels of the NCAA appearance.

Okay, you knew something wasn’t right in 2018. That’s after 2017, when they absolutely did the right thing and extended him — as well as pumped $110 million into facilities.

 

[willycat]

Okay, you knew something wasn’t right in 2018. That’s after 2017, when they absolutely did the right thing and extended him — as well as pumped $110 million into facilities.

yep, and all those years under Carmody and others and W-R remained a dusty dump.

 

[Purple Pile Driver]

Right! Thats as expected. Ignore the elephant. Focus on the abstract.
Most of what you wrote is about getting people to root for NU and show up at Welsh Ryan.
When you have the wrong guy running the program, that ain't gonna happen.

I realize we aren’t going to ever agree on the cause of this situation or much else for that matter, but could you at least read the entire post if you are going to opine? If you think “most” of what I wrote is about getting people to show up and root for NU you completely missed the main points ( see 1, 2, 5).

At any rate, you are going to get your wish as CCC will be gone after next year if not earlier. Talk to me in five years!

 

[xxxbobxxx]

He was the right guy back in 2017, though, wasn't he? So they locked him up with a long-term deal. That's what any program committed to building a program would do. Sometimes it works out (Steve Piekell at Rutgers). Sometimes it doesn't.

You must be a huge fan of the Tony LaRussa as the Sox hire and terribly disappointed in the departures of champion managers for the Cubs, Hawks, Bears and Bulls. In fact, you must disapprove of every manager ever let go after bringing their team to championship in any sport.

And before you start dissecting - how long since the cubs had won the World Series? Where’s that manager now? Must be dead, right? Having done what no other living person has ever accomplished…

 

[xxxbobxxx]

You must be a huge fan of the Tony LaRussa as the Sox hire and terribly disappointed in the departures of champion managers for the Cubs, Hawks, Bears and Bulls. In fact, you must disapprove of every manager ever let go after bringing their team to championship in any sport.

And before you start dissecting - how long since the cubs had won the World Series? Where’s that manager now? Must be dead, right? Having done what no other living person has ever accomplished…

And Ozzie Guillen! What a travesty. Clearly, the Sox will never return to the post season without him.

 

[lou v]

You must be a huge fan of the Tony LaRussa as the Sox hire and terribly disappointed in the departures of champion managers for the Cubs, Hawks, Bears and Bulls. In fact, you must disapprove of every manager ever let go after bringing their team to championship in any sport.

And before you start dissecting - how long since the cubs had won the World Series? Where’s that manager now? Must be dead, right? Having done what no other living person has ever accomplished…

You must be looking for another thread. I’m not saying Collins should be retained NOW. I am arguing that Collins’ extension (and the $110M investment in basketball facilities) was the right move in 2017 and showed NU’s commitment to changing the program.

 

[xxxbobxxx]

You must be looking for another thread. I’m not saying Collins should be retained NOW. I am arguing that Collins’ extension (and the $110M investment in basketball facilities) was the right move in 2017 and showed NU’s commitment to changing the program.

Fair but also speaking to those that have argued his NCAA year equates to job for life.

 

[PurpleWhiteBoy]

Okay, you knew something wasn’t right in 2018. That’s after 2017, when they absolutely did the right thing and extended him — as well as pumped $110 million into facilities.

Of course, as an NU fan, I loved the commitment to athletic facilities.
My objection was to the length of the extension for Collins.
Collins' tantrum in the Gonzaga game should have set off enough alarms to prevent such a huge commitment.
I was uncomfortable with it at the time (the duration) because he had clearly cracked under pressure.
After all he still had 3 years left on the original contract, I believe.

 

[Aging Booster]

He won’t succeed ( nor will anyone else) until there is a complete paradigm shift in how NU treats Men’s basketball. The powers to be don’t care about fielding a competitive team OR they have no idea what steps to take to start down a path of doing so.

The will give the appearance they do when they fire CCC after the 22-23 season. We will continue to be a 5-8 win team every year and change Coaches to appease the few people that actually care about the program. 4 years from now the same folks bitching that all of this is on CCC will be calling for the head of the new guy after he drops from 8 to 5 conference wins.

Does anyone know "what steps to take to start [NU] down a path" of having a winning team year in and year out? (I argue that we are already "competitive"). I have followed the program for over 50 years - CC is the only guy to put us in the NCAA tourney. For nearly every other year we have been far under .500 and generally abysmally bad. There are no easily applied solutions or people would have thought of them. For a variety of reasons - attendance, school spirit, lack of tradition, academic standards, unusual campus culture, lack of press coverage, paucity of NIL options - we are not an attractive place for the vast majority of HS basketball stars. NU is not going to change any of these factors in any of our lifetimes. Given that reality, what steps can be taken?

 

[IdahoAlum]

Does anyone know "what steps to take to start [NU] down a path" of having a winning team year in and year out? (I argue that we are already "competitive"). I have followed the program for over 50 years - CC is the only guy to put us in the NCAA tourney. For nearly every other year we have been far under .500 and generally abysmally bad. There are no easily applied solutions or people would have thought of them. For a variety of reasons - attendance, school spirit, lack of tradition, academic standards, unusual campus culture, lack of press coverage, paucity of NIL options - we are not an attractive place for the vast majority of HS basketball stars. NU is not going to change any of these factors in any of our lifetimes. Given that reality, what steps can be taken?

Hire a coach with an identifiable system that can coach and recruit well enough to beat teams with better talent. Think Wisconsin circa 199-2000. Easy to find? No. Impossible? No. Or we stay with what we got which is 10th place or lower every year in the BIG and continued drop in fan and recruit interest.