Does Stoops have to fire Eliot and/or Dawson?
- Thread starter Robcatt24
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Depends on the degree he thinks they are responsible. I'm not there everyday but as the HC your number 1 job is evaluating your staff. I think Stoops/Dawson have a different game time strategy on offense and that is leading to terrible play calls but that may be more Stoops than Dawson.
We need a new WR and OL coach for sure and there is no questioning that.
On defense we were solid given the lack of offense honestly and possibly could be better next year if Elam and Meant are ready to step up.
We need a new WR and OL coach for sure and there is no questioning that.
On defense we were solid given the lack of offense honestly and possibly could be better next year if Elam and Meant are ready to step up.
OLINE coach has to be first to go then D line coach. Dline coach has done nothing in developing Elam at all. Elams technique is garbage!
If I had to pick one it's a landslide for Dawson. There was games where the defense kept us in games, yet eventually wore down due to the fact the offense was incapable of staying on the field. It happened multiple times, Saturday was no different.
Too many times Dawson play calling put the offense in the hole, or was completely predictable. There was many times opposing teams made adjustment and Dawson didn't, again evident on Saturday!
Too many times Dawson looked lost, to many times we called vanilla plays that simply didn't work. There was no innovation. The play Saturday that summed up the offensive clusterfrack.......we were down 14 ,90 yards to go, under 3 minutes left. What does he call a QB draw, perfectly summed up the ineptness of offensive play calling. Elliot gets one more year. But just as we saw in year one with joker, sometimes you can just tell when a coach (Dawson) doesn't have a clue. This year was set up on a tee and we pissed the bed mainly on offense
Too many times Dawson play calling put the offense in the hole, or was completely predictable. There was many times opposing teams made adjustment and Dawson didn't, again evident on Saturday!
Too many times Dawson looked lost, to many times we called vanilla plays that simply didn't work. There was no innovation. The play Saturday that summed up the offensive clusterfrack.......we were down 14 ,90 yards to go, under 3 minutes left. What does he call a QB draw, perfectly summed up the ineptness of offensive play calling. Elliot gets one more year. But just as we saw in year one with joker, sometimes you can just tell when a coach (Dawson) doesn't have a clue. This year was set up on a tee and we pissed the bed mainly on offense
Eliot isn't going anywhere IMO.
Dawson isn't either. People on here complain about the play calling but they seem to lack understanding. Our OL, QB and WR units all three are all so inconsistent he never knows what he's gonna get from 1 play to another. OL might protect for 2 seconds or 5. WR might block some one, might not. QB might throw an accurate pass, prolly not.
I guarantee Dawson was as frustrated as everyone on here.
OL coach has to go. There has to be some one out there than can improve our OL. They were so inept they couldn't make second level blocks nor did it seem like they tried. They sure as hell couldn't block a simple stunt and if a late blitzer came, he was untouched. Just simple common awareness and mental things. Their just so bad. No way our OL coach can stay or next year will be much of the same.
Dawson isn't either. People on here complain about the play calling but they seem to lack understanding. Our OL, QB and WR units all three are all so inconsistent he never knows what he's gonna get from 1 play to another. OL might protect for 2 seconds or 5. WR might block some one, might not. QB might throw an accurate pass, prolly not.
I guarantee Dawson was as frustrated as everyone on here.
OL coach has to go. There has to be some one out there than can improve our OL. They were so inept they couldn't make second level blocks nor did it seem like they tried. They sure as hell couldn't block a simple stunt and if a late blitzer came, he was untouched. Just simple common awareness and mental things. Their just so bad. No way our OL coach can stay or next year will be much of the same.
O line, D line both need a new coach. Both coaches had less then stiller resumes coming in. John was brought in by Brown. Nether are really light up the recruiting world. maybe WR coach also. He is a good recruiter, but the product on the field is lacking. Stoops needs a former head coach to help him over the bumps, and both coordinators could use some help with in game adjustments.
To me when Dawson gave Towles the power of veto that signaled an inexperienced coach that does not understand management. Input in valuable but you cannot give your jr officers veto power on battle plans.
Elliot needs to go up in the booth and talk directly to Stoops on the field.
Elliot needs to go up in the booth and talk directly to Stoops on the field.
Think both of those guys get another year and actually feel like Eliot will likely be here as long as Stoops. That said, if the entirety of this staff (including position guys, of course) is retained this off-season, I'm expecting 4-8 next year or 5-7 at the very best with some luck and then multiple coaches become the scapegoats that get Stoops another year in 2017. At that time, Stoops will essentially be viewed as a lame duck due to his firm position on one of the hottest seats in the country, therefore ensuring that no decent position coach or coordinator will come here in 2017. Changes have to be made this off-season. After next year will be too late.
I can not count how many times a guard would hit the DT with the tackle and wouldn't leave him to go block a LBer. It was frequent. Especially on goal line plays where a little extra bump on the DT would have been enough to let the RB scoot by and the guard should have been on to the LB. Instead the LB comes flying through the hole to make the tackle. I will agree the OL struggled to block the first tier also though.
Eliot is Stoops guy. At best I think you demote him and hire an experienced DC to run the defense and Stoops stays the hell out of his way. The problem with letting go of Dawson is it would be hard to get a new OC to come in that would be any better. It just wouldn't be an attractive job. 3rd coordinator in 3 years implementing a new system again. People knew Dawson didn't call plays at WVU and this was his 1st year doing it. We didn't exactly have people beating down our doors last year when Brown left so think about that when you scream get rid of Dawson. OL coach needs to go and you need a ST coach.
I would look at the S&C coach too. 2 straight 2nd half collapses. Getting tired in the game. Those are red flags.
I would look at the S&C coach too. 2 straight 2nd half collapses. Getting tired in the game. Those are red flags.
To answer the OP's answer, of course he doesn't HAVE to fire either one of them. If Stoops thinks we're sitting pretty with the staff already in place, so be it. He owns the outcome and resulting consequences good or bad regardless of what he does or doesn't do.
To what? Ground zero? We're already there. Where is the progress? We should really be 4-8, or worse, EKU outplayed the CATS and only a desperate comeback avoided that humiliation on top of all the others this program has suffered under Stoops. In all honesty, besides recruiting, what has Stoops done to make anyone believe he's the one to turn this around? His recruiting classes are better than those of the Brooks' era but it hasn't translated into wins, 4-20 in the SEC, or even competitive losses on a consistent basis. Sure we'll hang close to a FL to get our hopes up only to be kicked in the crotch by a loss to the likes of VANDY. It seems to me that coaching is the variable missing here; stating the obvious to most I believe.
I could be wrong, but I don't see any coaching changes being made this off-season, unless they leave on their own accord. Stoops is a loyal guy and probably feels like he and his staff need more time to get this right. Next year could be a different story, when his seat becomes warm.
Eliot is Stoops puppet and he controls the D...Dawson is a different story because Dawson didn't play call at WVA so we don't really know what he wants, but I do know what I believe and that is MS dosen't want any part of a pass first centered offense and the two OC he had brought in are not what he is looking to run...after there years with Joker you could sees the job was over his head and I feel the same way with Stoops
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I disagree here, I think we looked very consistent, consistently bad. And we looked bad all year for that matter. The way both qb's looked makes me think we either DONT have a quarterback and missed on BOTH of these guys or we never coached them to a noticeable improvement. Either case is worrisome for the future.
And as far as firing a guy goes, it's not like it's a black and white decision and there is only one right and one wrong choice. If we fire Dawson and he does great somewhere else, so what. As long as we hire a capable guy we'll be fine. If we keep him and he still sucks, then we just wasted a lot of time and money for no reason. So I say he's got to go.
I bet the conversation would go like this:
Mitch: Hey Mark, congrats on the great season. I don't want to sound like our microwave idiot fans but do you think you could make staff changes.
Stoops: I got 18 million reasons not to. By the way isn't it you day to give the rifle and volleyball team massages?
Mitch: Well shucks, pardon my French. You are right, I will be on my way.
Mitch: Hey Mark, congrats on the great season. I don't want to sound like our microwave idiot fans but do you think you could make staff changes.
Stoops: I got 18 million reasons not to. By the way isn't it you day to give the rifle and volleyball team massages?
Mitch: Well shucks, pardon my French. You are right, I will be on my way.
It's as simple as this, who is the last OC this fan base has liked? Firing him after a year does nothing but hurt our program. I agree coaching has to improve, but give me a EKU 3 seasons ago, lose our OC last year able fire this one, how is that going to improve things?
If we had an AD with balls, he would be forced to make wholesale changes to his staff or hit the door. His buyout could be negotiated down due to failure to perform and reach a bowl. He wasn't hired to form an employment agency for his buddies.
Our most important recruits are guys committed to play for schlarmon...I'm not sure that its all on him simply because we didn't target a lot of short quick routes and backs out of the backfield along with the TE should have been much more involved in a short quick passing game ect..
But if we lose out on Jackson/young/leavitt not sure you want to go that route.
But if we lose out on Jackson/young/leavitt not sure you want to go that route.
Best case scenario for UK is that Eliot becomes DC in name only and focuses mainly on coaching the D line. Stoops hires an experienced coach with former head coaching experience to coach Special Teams. Last night I threw Brooks out there as a name. We hire an experienced OC with a proven track record as the OC. I've heard some fans calling for Mumme as the OC but given the history I doubt that seriously. Still something like that would be good. The OC gets to run his offense, period. Stoops takes over as Defensive Coordinator/head coach. Sort of what Petrino does with UL and offense. The rest of the staff can stay if we have solid leaders at each of the main spots. OC, DC and special teams need leaders. We don't have that right now. The younger coaches, including Schlarman would do much better if there was organization at the top. Those changes would get me back on board.
The QB draws and Horton up the middle were so predictable. Coach Stoops' mind set of "somebody has to just make a play" is not going fix this.
He does imo. Both are in over their heads. Eliot makes no adjustments and Dawson looks lost with his playcalling
Saying that next year will be much of the same could be true . I would think maybe with a years experience there could be major improvement with all the players.
Those negatives you mention are typical for a young team. Normally they would not be starting, maybe red shirting, thats why so many mistakes. The on the job training is hard to watch , but sometimes its necessary when you have no depth at their position. I just can't see this as a reason to fire the coach. Stoops is the only person that can evaluate his coaches and I imagine he will after season is over. You have to be present at every practice to make a valid evaluation.
He should fire himself.
I don't think i have ever seen a coach call a timeout to ice his own kicker.
I don't think i have ever seen a coach call a timeout to ice his own kicker.
It's probably just re-shuffling chairs on the titanic but this is what I'd do to salvage what we can.
- Fire Dawson and admit the air raid stuff is a mistake with Stoops. Towles is leaving, so you need to build around what Drew can do...which is not a deep thrower as his arm isn't great. Let's go more balanced attack, utilize our freaking TE in Conrad, feature out best player which is Boom Williams and then go to the WRs...especially Juice. Besides...Stoops wants to run the ball and being in shotgun isn't ideal for a balanced run attack. I think Brent Pease is an easy target as he's just a WR coach at Washington today. There are options like him out there. But a coach that will utilize what made Barker a top QB is what we need...which is accuracy and decision making was his strength...we need to wholesale change the offensive approach.
- Fire Schlarman...there is no need to write a paragraph. In 3 years, his units have always been the bottom performing unit on team.
- On D...Stoops has experience to fix this side of the ball if possible. I still loathe the 3-4 approach but it's here for now. Personally, I'd love McWIlson to WLB along with Love to generate more speed. West and Edwards can man the safeties. We desperately need an edge rusher...maybe Ware morphs into that but he looked like hot garbage in his Fr year.
- Fire Dawson and admit the air raid stuff is a mistake with Stoops. Towles is leaving, so you need to build around what Drew can do...which is not a deep thrower as his arm isn't great. Let's go more balanced attack, utilize our freaking TE in Conrad, feature out best player which is Boom Williams and then go to the WRs...especially Juice. Besides...Stoops wants to run the ball and being in shotgun isn't ideal for a balanced run attack. I think Brent Pease is an easy target as he's just a WR coach at Washington today. There are options like him out there. But a coach that will utilize what made Barker a top QB is what we need...which is accuracy and decision making was his strength...we need to wholesale change the offensive approach.
- Fire Schlarman...there is no need to write a paragraph. In 3 years, his units have always been the bottom performing unit on team.
- On D...Stoops has experience to fix this side of the ball if possible. I still loathe the 3-4 approach but it's here for now. Personally, I'd love McWIlson to WLB along with Love to generate more speed. West and Edwards can man the safeties. We desperately need an edge rusher...maybe Ware morphs into that but he looked like hot garbage in his Fr year.
We
We played to not lose Saturday, see how they handled the end of the first half. Stoops was terrified of Louisville getting the ball back that it cost him probably a touchdown. That call made drew have to rush that play to save time for a field goal. We keep hitting coaches that play to not lose instead of playing to win.....winners don't coach like that. Like you said the play calling has become predictable, when it's to that point it's time for change
no way you fire dawson. people dont understand how long it takes to install an offense at this level. totally disrupts the development of drew barker. john scharlman, tommy mainord and chad scott all need to be evaluated at the end of the year. i expect schlarman to be fired.
defensively, i think stoops should beg big brother mike to come to lexington (hopefully after oklahoma wins the national championship he will). if that does not work, there has to be another former dc under bob stoops that mark can bring in. get rid of buh and keep elliot as outside backers/d-end coach unless elliott wants to leave.
defensively, i think stoops should beg big brother mike to come to lexington (hopefully after oklahoma wins the national championship he will). if that does not work, there has to be another former dc under bob stoops that mark can bring in. get rid of buh and keep elliot as outside backers/d-end coach unless elliott wants to leave.
5 days to install the offense according to both Neal Brown and Dawson. If you are speaking about recruiting and developing to that system keep in mind that we started recruiting to this system enough years ago that the first group will be seniors next year. There is no excuse for the offense to be the train wreck it was. The only question is how much was Dawson and how much was Stoops.
He needs a scapegoat to place the blame on and divert some heat away from himself. Last year we had Brown and Naivar to take the heat off, this year it'll be Schlarman and someone else. The fire will be made and Stoops will start seeing a much more friendly fanbase because our genius fans will forget that Stoops was the guy that hired those inept assistant coaches to begin with.
