Down comes the hammer on RTC’s
- Thread starter OState Cowboys
- Start date
Looks like they are ready to vote. Looks like it says no current student athlete is allowed to go to a RTC. Seems like a no brainer that it creates an unfair recruiting advantage.
What will keep the guys from the RTC from going to the Penn State room and working out?
Would go back to the old rule where PSAs within 50 miles are able to be coached. As opposed to 250 miles.
I thought the same thing. I guess the only thing they could do is limit the amount of times a non student athlete could participate in practices.
I read it where it's just prospective student athletes wouldn't be allowed to train or work out at RTCs. Existing student athletes would be able to, however. Also coaching staffs must be separate.
And who would police it? I mean they have to prove you had someone in your room more than X number of times.
It looks like this proposal dates back to 2019. That's when John spoke at the coaches' conference and recommended schools revert from the RTC model back to the club model. John and Cary Kolat then pushed for it, along with other changes to prevent early contact with potential recruits. It seemed to go nowhere, but now seems to be back on the table. One benefit is that the NCAA handles compliance, not USAW.
Not how I read it. Appears to apply only to prospective student athletes (recruits). Not sure how much effect this will have on places like Penn State as it appears once a kid is signed to a ship or begins to attend school he can take advantage of the RTC. Someone please correct me if I’m misreading the proposals .
I certainly take the proposal by the NCAA as a silent approval of RTCs as long as you don’t allow prospective student athletes to utilize them. I see no reason why we shouldn’t go all in at this point.
This proposal doesn’t appear to solve any of the real issues that RTC programs like Penn St have and use to their advantage IMO. I’m all in on growing our RTC program due to the clear benefit that programs like Penn St have used it for. But I think thats what needs to be addressed as far as involvement for enrolled college athletes. I would much rather see a new modified proposal that clearly states the rules and objectives either for or against allowing paid RTC athletes to be in the room working out with college guys where the college program is the main beneficiary with their wrestlers getting elite competition. There are a lot of shades of gray and I’m not a expert by any means on this stuff. Just feels like this proposal doesn’t do much either way. Maybe someone can help explain it better.
NCAA only really cares about PSAs. The Senior level guys practicing with the College students is not their concern. It works like that in every Olympic Sport, not just wrestling. (think Oregon for track and ASU for swimming).
The protests from "smaller" schools have more to do with an inherent recruiting advantage. Meanwhile, the protest from USA Wrestling includes statistics that show, while PSAs take advantage of the RTC model, it hasn't been a recruiting advantage, as 77% of the students tracked went another school other than the RTC they attended as a PSA.
Gets rid of the 250 mile radius - so we'll either go back to 50 mile radius rule or a complete ban on PSAs being coached by salaried employees of a university.
It's really much ado about nothing. Most of the high level guys are pretty loyal to their high level clubs any way (OWA, Young Guns, Jersey clubs, Illinois clubs, etc).
On Lee's podcast, Derek Fix said RTCs are sanctioned by the NCAA. So they aren't illegal. Paying college wrestlers or promising to pay HS recruits is illegal. This proposal is being advanced by the MAC & SoCo to only address certain recruiting advantages of RTCs - basically early contact with PSAs (recruits).
The 77% stat cited by USAW's objection is very narrow. It's based on only 13 elite level athletes (10/13). Elite level being ranked top 3 nationally. It's no surprise USAW is fighting the proposal. There were rumors of RTC abuses for years. USAW was aware and did nothing until things blew up at the coaches' conference in the summer of 2019. Only then did they draft new guidelines. And according to the objection, those updated guidelines still haven't been fully implemented.
The 77% stat cited by USAW's objection is very narrow. It's based on only 13 elite level athletes (10/13). Elite level being ranked top 3 nationally. It's no surprise USAW is fighting the proposal. There were rumors of RTC abuses for years. USAW was aware and did nothing until things blew up at the coaches' conference in the summer of 2019. Only then did they draft new guidelines. And according to the objection, those updated guidelines still haven't been fully implemented.
Isn't every high school or junior high kid a "prospective student athlete"? Seems like it would be hard to prove otherwise and if the kid ended up going to the school where the RTC was, I am guessing it would be easy to prove and easy to punish.
Yeah. I thought that 77% stat was hilarious. You couldn't have gotten that number into the hundreds? Because that would have made the point.
Correct. and Correct.
So basically we sat around and did nothing and schools blew past us and now we are hoping that someone else will come in and fix the problem? Only nothing is really going to change with how RTC's work. Sounds very short sighted on our part, it's time for us to crap or get off the pot. It's clear the only way to compete for a NC is to have a fully funded RTC. Having new lockers and mats is nice but it's a Band-Aid on a broken leg.
We missed the train on RTCs and now we are missing the train on NIL & the portal.
I have to give Tom Brands credit - he sees what PSU does and then he adapts. He built the Iowa RTC up and now he is using the portal. Both Eierman & Woods are proven AAs, the type of guys PSU targets as transfers.
One of our wrestlers is the highest compensated athlete at OSU... Fix, Carter, and Voinovich all have decent NIL deals.
Not sure how we've missed the boat on it. We're not offering up six figure NIL deals to prospects because it's illegal. But we don't block athletes from getting deals... heck we have people that help athletes get deals and the athletic department gives them resources to understand their marketability.
Not sure how we've missed the boat on it. We're not offering up six figure NIL deals to prospects because it's illegal. But we don't block athletes from getting deals... heck we have people that help athletes get deals and the athletic department gives them resources to understand their marketability.
Yes but the RTC issue is being rectified. They've raised a significant amount of money, have an endowment, and have shifted philosophies over the last 6 months or so. You'll see some official announcements coming out in the next two-three weeks about the RTC.
I fully expect everybody who has b*tched about the RTC over the last couple of years to set up a recurring donation when the website is available, btw.
I fully expect everybody who has b*tched about the RTC over the last couple of years to set up a recurring donation when the website is available, btw.
Take a look at what PSU is doing with NIL. They set up collectives that are designed to operate outside of the University. David Taylor is one of the board members.
The founder of one of those collectives is Ira Lubert - the guy who flew Cael Sanderson in on his private jet when he was offered the head coaching job. Then Lubert donated millions toward PSU's facility & RTC.
The founder of one of those collectives is Ira Lubert - the guy who flew Cael Sanderson in on his private jet when he was offered the head coaching job. Then Lubert donated millions toward PSU's facility & RTC.
.... we've got that. PSU is doing it the way that we do it. They're expecting athletes to go get them on their own, but they will guide them down the path. We have that same setup, and even have a fund where every athlete is getting an additional $6k per year.
We have the athletic department building NFTs for athletes and setting them up with local businesses: https://okstate.com/sports/2021/8/24/nil.aspx
Joey Sanchez, somebody who will probably never start at Oklahoma State, has an NIL deal with a local company.
They've partnered with Altius Sports to help athletes get whatever they need: https://okstate.com/news/2022/1/12/...cts-altius-sports-to-enhance-nil-program.aspx
The Spear's School of Business has programs set up to help athletes and regular students capitalize on this: https://businessofcollegesports.com...-squad-is-engaging-marketing-students-in-nil/
Most of our donors are fairly humble and don't need their name out there on every single thing... to say we aren't fully invested in getting athletes NIL deals is misguided. Again, AJ Ferrari is the highest paid OSU athlete... Daton Fix is top 5... Carter Young is up there with his deal with Spartan Combat.
NIL isn't meant to be a recruiting tool. What Iowa supposedly did.... putting together a $100k package to entice an athlete to transfer to them... is illegal. Will anything happen to them? I don't know. Probably not. But we know that we aren't going to play in that space.
We've got a year jump on Penn State in this realm. Our guys have in-roads built to get recurring NIL deals for wrestlers. They're going to be good at this too... but they aren't going to do what Iowa just allegedly did either. Penn State didn't allow any athletes to participate in NIL this past academic year, as they wanted to "do it right" which is what that linked initiative is.
We have the athletic department building NFTs for athletes and setting them up with local businesses: https://okstate.com/sports/2021/8/24/nil.aspx
Joey Sanchez, somebody who will probably never start at Oklahoma State, has an NIL deal with a local company.
They've partnered with Altius Sports to help athletes get whatever they need: https://okstate.com/news/2022/1/12/...cts-altius-sports-to-enhance-nil-program.aspx
The Spear's School of Business has programs set up to help athletes and regular students capitalize on this: https://businessofcollegesports.com...-squad-is-engaging-marketing-students-in-nil/
Most of our donors are fairly humble and don't need their name out there on every single thing... to say we aren't fully invested in getting athletes NIL deals is misguided. Again, AJ Ferrari is the highest paid OSU athlete... Daton Fix is top 5... Carter Young is up there with his deal with Spartan Combat.
NIL isn't meant to be a recruiting tool. What Iowa supposedly did.... putting together a $100k package to entice an athlete to transfer to them... is illegal. Will anything happen to them? I don't know. Probably not. But we know that we aren't going to play in that space.
We've got a year jump on Penn State in this realm. Our guys have in-roads built to get recurring NIL deals for wrestlers. They're going to be good at this too... but they aren't going to do what Iowa just allegedly did either. Penn State didn't allow any athletes to participate in NIL this past academic year, as they wanted to "do it right" which is what that linked initiative is.
Are you saying we also have a collective separate from the University? If so, I wasn't aware. And I'm not proposing we promise recruits NIL $. Just like we don't have to promise recruits RTC $. Just have a robust RTC and it will sell itself. And don't say publicly you don't like NIL, like John did. Opposing coaches will use that against us with recruits.
I really don't expect Lubert to play a passive role while athletes chase down NIL deals. There's a poster on the Iowa board, someone that donated $1M toward Iowa's new facility (he posts under his real name). He said he was at a lunch when Lubert discussed courting Cael and funding the facility & RTC. Said Lubert just wants PSU to win. Everything points to them being aggressive with NIL. PSU's football coach (Franklin) literally said he wants bold and aggressive opportunities.
We just disagree, nothing wrong with that.
Well.... There's a gap in what is fact here. It doesn't matter that John doesn't like NIL. His athletes are taking advantage of it with some lucrative opportunities. We have people that are aggressively making sure our athletes are taken care of.
We do lack alumni that can pony up multiple millions of dollars to "just win" but we do have people that will pony up hundreds of thousands to do so, which works too.
We can disagree on the importance of all of this... The fact is that the infrastructure is there for OSU to be just as aggressive on NIL... The issue is that most NIL money in the state will go to OU football.
Penn State doesn't have that kind of competition.
We do lack alumni that can pony up multiple millions of dollars to "just win" but we do have people that will pony up hundreds of thousands to do so, which works too.
We can disagree on the importance of all of this... The fact is that the infrastructure is there for OSU to be just as aggressive on NIL... The issue is that most NIL money in the state will go to OU football.
Penn State doesn't have that kind of competition.
Well if there's a gap in fact, I think there's some more to it...
I posted a link to PSU's 'collectives' and you replied "we've got that", which I don't believe is correct. Collectives are entities separate from the University, created specifically so wealthy & influential alumni can connect businesses with athletes. Having David Taylor as a board member would be the equivalent of Daniel Cormier being involved for us. Additionally, collectives allow PSU fans to donate directly.
I do agree with you that OSU has been active in the NIL area and they've set up processes & tools to help athletes. That's a good thing. But I see it as more of a facilitator/educator role, with PSU playing a more aggressive role. Maybe I'm wrong, but that's how it reads to me.
One other point, AJ probably is a top NIL earner. That's another good thing. It shows recruits they can be successful at OSU. But it's mostly of his own doing. He was wearing Nearfall gear & tagging them while he was still in HS. He built a brand with 'MrFastTwitch' & '665 deadlift baby'. Sure, the coaches and his teammates helped him win a national title, but the University simply provided information regarding NIL. AJ chased down his own NIL deals.
@Wrassler17 Thats how I see it too.
We have processes set up to educate and help facilitate NIL deals, but we don't have a brokerage. PSU appears to have a brokerage set up to put deals in place.
I sure wish I had the money to ink a deal Wrestlers, but I would want my logo on their headgear (but only because I wouldn't taint the all Orange singlet.)
We have processes set up to educate and help facilitate NIL deals, but we don't have a brokerage. PSU appears to have a brokerage set up to put deals in place.
I sure wish I had the money to ink a deal Wrestlers, but I would want my logo on their headgear (but only because I wouldn't taint the all Orange singlet.)
"Success With Honor is a new NIL collective for Penn State athletes.
Courtesy Success With Honor"
No connection to PSU yet only available for PSU athletes, how do they do that?
Man this is a lot of new development. Props Lee for putting this list together. Hopefully our prospective athletes are better informed than we are! OSU's social media and wrestling outreach should be pouring this information out everywhere they possibly can! These days athletes have the advantage so for us to be competitive with recruits we need it to be painfully obvious to everyone out there that OSU Wrestling is 100% on board with the new paradigm. Not enough for OSU to just be on board... they need to make it known far and wide so that we can flip those recruits from any other school to ours. Recruiting is as much a competition as the sport itself.
Question for disgruntled fans. If someone else was running the program is the money there to beat Penn State with what they are doing? Football is doing a $40 million dollar renovation on the football stadium. Mike Gundy and staff probably got a $3-4 million dollar per year increase. As I’ve watched some baseball games I notice that many fields are now all fake grass. Not us, the new stadium is real grass. OSU doesn’t seem to being doing things that a struggling budget would be doing.
In my opinion this is the biggest problem with OSU Wrestling right now. The folks in our communications and promotions department don't do anything with wrestling. The GA that acts as the SID for OSU does the best he can with the resources he is given... but it's not enough. Iowa has had the same SID for 25 years dedicated to wrestling. Penn State's SID has been there for 12 years. We have to get a new intern SID every two years because the people in charge of our communications team don't care about wrestling. That's our biggest issue.
Well and injuries.
If reports on Iowa & Michigan are true will the NCAA investigate and will they also look into what Penn St is doing?
Willie said possible tampering. Boosters calling wrestlers and telling them to enter the portal & transfer. Wyoming's Buchanan was one of the guys called.So what are the reports on Iowa & Michigan? I want to hear their allegations before I make my suggestion as to what we should look at doing