***DUKE VS CLEMSON OFFICIAL GAMEDAY THREAD***

[dukehokie]

You can find that out in practice. Look I understand the difference between what game minutes means versus practice, primarily, will your teammates trust you in game during tense moments. But Chase and Sean have shots at both and they just haven't proven they are ready right now, or maybe even this season.

Besides, what in Chase's proven skill set could he have given tonight that would have helped Duke win?

 

[BluePhil]

Chase fouled out - hard to get more minutes when that happens.

 

[denverexpat]

Poor end to the first half - Thorton takes a 3 with 15 seconds instead of it being the last shot - gives Clemson a chance to run to the other end - get Ingrams 3rd and 2 FT...thats just poor...and i dont agree with the "he's young" argument. He's played elite basketball for years and should know better. Jeter got 3 touch fouls....he's snakebit but surely he can play or he wouldnt have been recruited? Baffling that we have players on the team who cant see the floor against teams with players we didnt even consider recruiting...i really dont understand the logic. Players will die to play for Duke so we should have 9-10 players every year capable of stepping onto a D1 court - yet every year its a short rotation. Something i've never really understood. Next game.

 

[DevilDJ]

Bad loss. Not because it's Clemson

It was a bad loss but part of it WAS because it was Clemson. God love 'em but they're not good. You're right. Duke didn't do some things they needed to but the Tigers will be an NCAA bubble team. Maybe. Probably another NIT year for 'em. I always wanna give credit to the opponent and I do tonight. Congratulations , Tigers. But that doesn't change who they are. No excuse for losing tonight. None.

 

[Get Nasty]

You can find that out in practice. Look I understand the difference between what game minutes means versus practice, primarily, will your teammates trust you in game during tense moments. But Chase and Sean have shots at both and they just haven't proven they are ready right now, or maybe even this season.

Besides, what in Chase's proven skill set could he have given tonight that would have helped Duke win?

I don't see sean ever having a role because of physical limitations.

How about don't foul 5 times in 5 minutes, and if you foul don't give up an and 1! that skill set lol

 

[WI#1Dukie22]

The zone was the difference, straight up, as I Rewatch. Rebounding not far behind.

 

[Get Nasty]

The zone was the difference, straight up, as I Rewatch. Rebounding not far behind.

Add fts and I'm right with ya

 

[gottagonow]

I don't know how we want Matt shooting that. I really don't. Grayson or LUKE all day.

I think Matt shooting that shot might just have peed Grayson off a little and it should have peed him off. Maybe a little look what I can do involved there with Matt.

 

[WI#1Dukie22]

Free throws were big, but lack of them more then the misses.

We've gotta get to the line plain and simple

 

[gottagonow]

What did we finish with in points? 63, you are not going to win many games with only 63 points. Everything we were worried about including a thin bench, poor FT shooting, foul trouble, lack of defense and poor untimely rebounding finally caught up with us. Too many bad things to tough out a win.

 

[liverpooty]

We will be fine come March.

 

[gottagonow]

We will be fine come March.

I think next year we will be better. We all know we have challenges this year and looking forward to next season makes it more bearable

 

[Anon1728003274]

Question on the 1st big off the bench w/Amile out....
Obviously Chase is having some problems adjusting and Sean struggled in his Broadway at Wake...Is it time Antonio gets a chance to be the first big off bench, or is he that further behind?
Thx-

 

[youngman42]

You can find that out in practice. Look I understand the difference between what game minutes means versus practice, primarily, will your teammates trust you in game during tense moments. But Chase and Sean have shots at both and they just haven't proven they are ready right now, or maybe even this season.

Besides, what in Chase's proven skill set could he have given tonight that would have helped Duke win?

The only problem with this is that we've seen players in the past get minutes due to an injury (when previously they weren't getting any court time) and voila, they are effective! This has happened many times on K teams.

And, we do know that Obi can rebound as he averaged over 10/game as a freshman in a mid-major conference (in a game like this, when we are getting destroyed on the boards, that would have been a big help).

I can't imagine giving him 10-12-15 minutes in a game like tonight would not yield a few more rebounds than we garnered.

This is and has been the single weakness I see in K's coaching - which is impressive as most other coaches have multiple weaknesses. But, it is an area where I think he'd do better to get more players on the court - esp. bigs against other teams that are overpowering us on the boards.

 

[WI#1Dukie22]

I'm far from talking about next year tell ya that!!!

Now last year makes everything much easier to take I can tell you that

We gave one away, bottom line. K will build from this.

NEXT

 

[dukehokie]

What did we finish with in points? 63, you are not going to win many games with only 63 points. Everything we were worried about including a thin bench, poor FT shooting, foul trouble, lack of defense and poor untimely rebounding finally caught up with us. Too many bad things to tough out a win.

By "Caught up to us", is that a suggestion that this team has hit some ceiling where they can't be continually successful, or do you mean this can happen at some point and it did? This is more anomaly than pattern to me.

 

[dukehokie]

I don't see sean ever having a role because of physical limitations.

How about don't foul 5 times in 5 minutes, and if you foul don't give up an and 1! that skill set lol

That's a skill set that's gotta go!

 

[DukeDenver]

Sorry to be Debbie downer here boys but I think we need to start accepting that right now, this is a subpar Duke team. They can and will improve but Duke never does well when you have bad point guard play and DT is not a very good point guard at this point in his career. Luckly everyone else in college basketball is average this year as well but I'm not expecting much out of this team come March.

We're one Tyus Jones and a healthy Amile away from being great. K had us in position to have that team, but circumstance changed all that.

 

[dukehokie]

The only problem with this is that we've seen players in the past get minutes due to an injury (when previously they weren't getting any court time) and voila, they are effective! This has happened many times on K teams.

And, we do know that Obi can rebound as he averaged over 10/game as a freshman in a mid-major conference (in a game like this, when we are getting destroyed on the boards, that would have been a big help).

I can't imagine giving him 10-12-15 minutes in a game like tonight would not yield a few more rebounds than we garnered.

This is and has been the single weakness I see in K's coaching - which is impressive as most other coaches have multiple weaknesses. But, it is an area where I think he'd do better to get more players on the court - esp. bigs against other teams that are overpowering us on the boards.

Can giving out minutes be a weakness? Because to me, his rotations with the amount of players he uses is a strength in my opinion.

Besides, is he the only coach that uses 7-8? Absolutely not. As a matter of fact it's a pretty common practice. Again I ask, who is ready to give minutes? Obi has proven he's not efficient with his rebounding. He came from a team that played, wait for it, 7 players regularly. They also played teams that made up some of the worst efficiency in the NCAA last season. Meaning A LOT of missed shots. Now he's in a league he has to be efficient with his space and hunting and he can't do it.

Chase is either too slow at this point for small lineups, or not strong enough for big ones. But he is showing enough in practice for K to want him in more than Vrank or Sean. The only other player I see at this point who may add another body to the rotation is Vrank maybe by ACC tournament play. For now, no one else is ready yet.

Good thing it's only January, because those cases you spoke of, occurred later in the season. Meaning, there's still time for you to be proven right...or wrong depending on how you want to look at it.

 

[DukeDenver]

My honest question is......Why did we give Obi a scholly if he isn't better than what Jeter is right now?

No shot at Jeter because I know he is a freshman

We got Obi before Jeter (I think), Vrank and before Plum commited to a 5th year. He was insurance. A smart kid with a big body.

 

[Showenuff]

It's one game guys. Let's don't go all " the season is over" just yet. Everybody was breakin out the Crisco for a circle jerk last 3 games. We'll bounce back, it's what we do. We needed Amile tonight, that's no secret. We are still learning and K is still building. We had this same thread, hell even worse last year after State and Miami. Let's see how it pans out. I think we can still pull something special off with this group.

 

[DukeDenver]

It's great to be a Devil.

 

[pisgah101]

I'll just say Obi IS NOT the answer lol. Clemson has beat FSU, Cuse, Lville, now us.. And played Carolina tight it's not like they are a terrible midmajor team

 

[gottagonow]

Last year we KNEW we had great potential, one of the 3 or 4 best teams in the land. The loses to State and Miami actually hurt more, much more to me anyway than this loss because we knew or thought we knew we had the horses to win it all with the great center we had and dandy guard play and it all turned out right. I have accepted that we will likely lose a few more this year and thats ok as long as we show improvement and play close to our potential.. The road is a brutal this year in the ACC and most teams record will reflect that. I am not giving up on the team at all as we'll win more than we lose down the stretch and might surprise a few teams.

 

[DukeDenver]

I think people overlook how often Grayson let's his man get by him or is late to rotate over. It's his one weakness, but it's a big one. Our rebounding just plain sucks without Amile. We had Luke under the hoop in that 1-3-1 because of fouls I guess. That's not going to work against tall, athletic teams. I hope this experiment leads to an answer soon.

 

[DiehardDukeFan4Life]

It's one game guys. Let's don't go all " the season is over" just yet. Everybody was breakin out the Crisco for a circle jerk last 3 games. We'll bounce back, it's what we do. We needed Amile tonight, that's no secret. We are still learning and K is still building. We had this same thread, hell even worse last year after State and Miami. Let's see how it pans out. I think we can still pull something special off with this group.

I agree with this completely. It sucks when we lose a game because as fans we want to win them all but it's just one loss and isn't the end of our season by any stretch of the imagination. Like I posts in a Duke group I'm in on Facebook, we've still got a way to go but we'll learn from this loss and improve because of it and I still believe that we've got a good chance to win it all this season. Nobody really thought we'd win it all last season because we only played 8 players but we proved that 8 was enough and I believe that as long as we continue to improve and once Amile returns, we have a chance to prove that 8 could be enough this season as well.

 

[Dattier]

My honest question is......Why did we give Obi a scholly...?

To go against Jah in practice. If he loses 15 pounds and firms up, he's likely to contribute over the next two years.

K's previous 4 transfers all made an All-ACC team. It's a different time now. We're not necessarily looking for the late bloomer at a ho-hum school to come be a star here so much; in Obi's case, maybe we were looking for a diverse type foundational player to be there as OADs cycle through. In years past, some thick, undersized, energetic PF (rosh's "banger") would kill our long, lean, finesse-style stretch 4s. Maybe Obi gives us a look we need to prepare for that in practice or something.

 

[Laettner]

Bad loss on road, we knew this would happen with frosh & no Amile. At least we come home for two in a row.

Cracks me up when subpar teams like Clemson beat us & act like fools with antics. Clemson hadn't beaten 2 ranked teams in a row since 1989! Didn't realize Tigers had been that bad. Clemson will lose to Wake or VT at home in the coming weeks while playing half dead.

At least we could provide them with a pick me up after Bama loss.

 

[Anon1728003274]

To Dattier's point of we got Obi for Jah to go against in practice:Its a sound enough rationale, but I truly thought it would make him a better player...

My biggest concern when I watch us now is we have 3 scholarship bigs on the roster who are nowhere near ready for D1 hoops at the most elite level....As DukieJay says, sometimes you simply miss on "evaluations."
Hopefully one or perhaps two of the three can develop...Just my two cents guys-thx..
#LetsGoGetIrish

 

[crazyduke3]

I think Sean could have for sure matched what Chase gave last night. There is no experience like the real experience and while I'm typically fine with exactly how K plays his and others minutes, I really am, cannot understand how Obi couldn't find the floor last night

DT yet again was a non-factor.

Awful game for Marshall, I kept wondering if he would ever get a rebound.

Grayson was awesome.

Luke should not have come and tried to help on the last play of defense but honestly, he was mostly fantastic besides that so I give him a pass. Kid is great.

Not much from Slim reaper tonight.

Matt was okay.

FT would have been fine had we actually hit some of the few we had.

Rebounding was atrocious, really need Brandon and Grayson to help Marshall and when we get little from all three, well.

Weird game, I thought the first 8 minutes, our defense was lights out. Very disappointed it faded.

BUT, we weren't going undefeated in ACC play, so we'll be alright. We are still a very good team with plenty of potential. If we get in foul trouble games will be very difficult to win.

Duke will live on folks!

 

[BOOGIEMAN1914]

It wasn't a true replay, they showed the shot going to break real quick and you could see toe on line

yep, i saw it too...toe was on the line

 

[BOOGIEMAN1914]

I think Sean could have for sure matched what Chase gave last night. There is no experience like the real experience and while I'm typically fine with exactly how K plays his and others minutes, I really am, cannot understand how Obi couldn't find the floor last night

DT yet again was a non-factor.

Awful game for Marshall, I kept wondering if he would ever get a rebound.

Grayson was awesome.

Luke should not have come and tried to help on the last play of defense but honestly, he was mostly fantastic besides that so I give him a pass. Kid is great.

Not much from Slim reaper tonight.

Matt was okay.

FT would have been fine had we actually hit some of the few we had.

Rebounding was atrocious, really need Brandon and Grayson to help Marshall and when we get little from all three, well.

Weird game, I thought the first 8 minutes, our defense was lights out. Very disappointed it faded.

BUT, we weren't going undefeated in ACC play, so we'll be alright. We are still a very good team with plenty of potential. If we get in foul trouble games will be very difficult to win.

Duke will live on folks!

DT a non-factor???...he had 8pts 4rebs 3ast and only 1TO....he got 1 or2 layups blocked at the rim, but he is going to have to remember he doesnt have high school guys just watching when he blows by them

 

[DukeDenver]

Luke should not have come and tried to help on the last play of defense but honestly, he was mostly fantastic besides that so I give him a pass. Kid is great.

Just to clarify, Luke did that because Duke coaches were signalling to foul, but Grayson was like a deer in headlights with 4 fouls. It was a heads up play by Luke to realize what was happening. The real mistake was Duke coaches not calling for a foul immediately with 38 seconds on the clock. They screwed up, plain and simple.

 

[crazyduke3]

Just to clarify, Luke did that because Duke coaches were signalling to foul, but Grayson was like a deer in headlights with 4 fouls. It was a heads up play by Luke to realize what was happening. The real mistake was Duke coaches not calling for a foul immediately with 38 seconds on the clock. They screwed up, plain and simple.

Nice catch.

Boy I'm ready for the next game (provided it's a win!)

 

[pisgah101]

Just to clarify, Luke did that because Duke coaches were signalling to foul, but Grayson was like a deer in headlights with 4 fouls. It was a heads up play by Luke to realize what was happening. The real mistake was Duke coaches not calling for a foul immediately with 38 seconds on the clock. They screwed up, plain and simple.

K stood up and said foul the sec they crossed half court I looked to see cuz I was shocked they hadn't. And the people around me were too

 

[dukiejay]

Just to clarify, Luke did that because Duke coaches were signalling to foul, but Grayson was like a deer in headlights with 4 fouls. It was a heads up play by Luke to realize what was happening. The real mistake was Duke coaches not calling for a foul immediately with 38 seconds on the clock. They screwed up, plain and simple.

I don't think you foul immediately. There was still a lot of time on the clock. I give my defense a chance to create a turnover, but once they cross halfcourt then I go the foul route. That still leaves you 25-30 seconds.

 

[WI#1Dukie22]

In response to Clemons antics.....

Nothing pisses off more then punk a$$ teams slapping the floor in Dukes face! That is straight up punking our guys..... They needed to take that WAYYYYY more personal. Emotion was missing last night.

 

[2004Audi]

I think people overlook how often Grayson let's his man get by him or is late to rotate over. It's his one weakness, but it's a big one. Our rebounding just plain sucks without Amile. We had Luke under the hoop in that 1-3-1 because of fouls I guess. That's not going to work against tall, athletic teams. I hope this experiment leads to an answer soon.

this was a big point in my opinion. it appeared that k had decided to play d and take chances on getting a rebound and going for the tying or game winning bucket. that is fine. however, if you re going to play the clock game, why are you pressuring so far out like that? seems like it would make more sense to lay back at the 3 point line and initiate defense there.

 

[dukiejay]

Again....K and the staff were calling for the team to foul but somewhere along the line there was miscommunication. I think they wanted to play defense to see if they could disrupt Clemson enough into turning it over in the backcourt. Once Clemson crossed the timeline the staff was asking for a foul.

 

[Smythe13]

Despite all of the problems self-inflicted or not, Duke was in the game and had an opportunity to win. A good lesson for a young team.