Vrank set some good screens and hopefully will get more run
***DUKE VS. WAKE FOREST POST-GAME THREAD***
- Thread starter dukehokie
- Start date
He's a heady player.
Positives:
-It was a win, period.
-I feel like Giles continues to slowly come along. Will he have a breakout game at some point?
-Vrank. That kid plays hard and fairly smart. Guys like him can help us win.
-Luke. That was high level stuff when we had to have it.
-Grayson. With all the crap going on for him, he played well today.
-Frank. He plays hard and brings athleticism that we desperately need.
Negatives:
-This team cannot seem to put together a 40 minute effort.
-This team doesn't appear to really be a close group. They seem like separate pieces.
-Defense. Good lord, that used to be our calling card. Why can't these kids play D?
-This team lacks a clear leader. We need a Quinn Cook.
I'm shocked that they fought back and won on the road, especially with the foul situation and the Grayson baiting. I keep waiting for a spark to ignite these guys, and maybe today was the spark (I had hoped the Miami comeback was that spark).
I'll never quit on our team. Being a Duke fan since 1987, I'll always stay with them to the end. Let's go!!!!!
-It was a win, period.
-I feel like Giles continues to slowly come along. Will he have a breakout game at some point?
-Vrank. That kid plays hard and fairly smart. Guys like him can help us win.
-Luke. That was high level stuff when we had to have it.
-Grayson. With all the crap going on for him, he played well today.
-Frank. He plays hard and brings athleticism that we desperately need.
Negatives:
-This team cannot seem to put together a 40 minute effort.
-This team doesn't appear to really be a close group. They seem like separate pieces.
-Defense. Good lord, that used to be our calling card. Why can't these kids play D?
-This team lacks a clear leader. We need a Quinn Cook.
I'm shocked that they fought back and won on the road, especially with the foul situation and the Grayson baiting. I keep waiting for a spark to ignite these guys, and maybe today was the spark (I had hoped the Miami comeback was that spark).
I'll never quit on our team. Being a Duke fan since 1987, I'll always stay with them to the end. Let's go!!!!!
Agreed - think we lose by 10-15 on Monday night. Hope I'm wrong.
Also, sit Tatum. You can't tell me it's not a coincidence that we ran a better offense with him not on the floor. Let him be the 7th man behind Jackson.
I've said it all along - Tatum will get his money, but I sure as hell wouldn't be the GM to give it to him. Someone said it earlier: "If only Tatum's shot was as good as he thinks it is."
Proud of the guys today, but we have a LONG way to go.
Also, sit Tatum. You can't tell me it's not a coincidence that we ran a better offense with him not on the floor. Let him be the 7th man behind Jackson.
I've said it all along - Tatum will get his money, but I sure as hell wouldn't be the GM to give it to him. Someone said it earlier: "If only Tatum's shot was as good as he thinks it is."
Proud of the guys today, but we have a LONG way to go.
A heady, high motor, effort guy? Cliché or not, I wish there was more of it!!
You can't just count Tatum out. He is the most talented guy on the roster. I understand he can hamper the ball flow, but he has potential to bring us to the top. He could be the difference between a sweet 16 and a natty. We can't just give up on him.
I don't think people are necessarily saying that we should give up on him..I just think most people (myself included) can't seem to understand why he of all people has been the constant in the starting lineup. And why he of all people continues to play all the minutes he can handle. The kid is hampering us right now, regardless of his ceiling he needs to be playing about half as much as he is.
He might be the difference in a first round exit and the final 4 too.. as in he plays we lose early
Well what would you suggest we do with him that makes the team better? There's nothing to like about his game on Offense, and unfortunately his problems aren't getting fixed in the next month and a half. My realistic hope for this team is getting to the 2nd weekend, and we have overwhelming evidence that this team plays best when Tatum isn't on the floor.
I'd love for you to be right and for Jayson to start to live up to his high school ranking. If nothing else, the staff has to move him off the ball - that belongs to Luke and Frank from now on - and find a place on the floor where Tatum's skill set is better utilized.
Isn't Michelle Beade the one the made the comment on Sportscenter earlier this season that someone needed to knock Grayson out? I was just watching Sportscenter and when they were showing highlights from the game. They showed the play where Grayson and the Wake Forest player went to the floor after they called Grayson for the blocking foul and she said something about him saying something to the Wake Forest player but didn't say anything about the Wake Forest player saying something to Grayson first then they showed the play where Grayson missed the 3 and he got called for the foul going for the rebound and she commented on Brandon Childress grabbing Grayson and throwing him down in the bench and when Grayson's teammates grabbed him after he walked away and she tried to say that they were telling him to chill out even though he did nothing wrong in that play and walked away. I know anytime Grayson is involved in anything on the court he's going to be criticized by the media but IMO she went overboard with her comments
Sports media is such a disgrace anymore. On my Bleacher report app there is a video titled"watch Grayson get T'd up". Where's the one about Childress getting T'd up?!
Have said it a million times this year. ESPN is garbage and I encourage all of you to not watch, click or tune into anything there that isn't a televised broadcast that you're watching, even those are painful. There are too many other sources of sports news to turn to these days. FS1 is pretty solid.
Did I see it correctly? Joel Berry 0-8 from the field and 2 points?
This is where I land. Duke should have championship aspirations, and their highest ceiling is with a quality Tatum. He is likely the most skilled player on the roster. K and Capel would be remiss if they didn't continue to try to maximize him, as they should. They know what they have with him, far more than any of us.
Interesting to hear so much negativity about Tatum on these boards, as he is a freshman in a slump, but still a matchup nightmare. He will get out of this slump soon enough, but he has also been a decent primary defender and rebounder. Like the rest of our team, his help D is terrible. That said, there seems to be no mention of Matt playing the whole game and shooting around 20%. Tatum will be fine.
You know watching him and listening to Grayson speak you wouldn't think of him as a mass murderer would you.
OFCTatum took 6 or 7 shots. I didn't see one terrible one. He is a scorer, scorers take shots. He got wide open looks that he didn't make. You people on this board act like he is driving in 1 on 3. The flow of the offense is getting him and other guys shots that they are just not making.
It's as much the flow of the offense, as it is shot selection. He's a ball stopper, it moves around the perimeter, until it gets to him, then he puts it on the deck, shakes, shimmies, goes between the legs. Then passes to the next guy, drives, or shoots. A lot of times it's unnecessary.
He took one three late in the game that made no sense, but it's true he only shot six times. Let's zoom out a bit and be honest about what is going on.
His 3PT% is 29.8. He's averaging more turnovers than assists. He's not playing like a top 5 prospect overall, but his highlight reel is going to turn heads in the draft. This past week he blew a final possession horribly and then fouled out prior to a big comeback. It makes sense than we poasters are calling him out a bit. I'm not going to go so far as to call him selfish, but he tries to do too much one on one. He's young and out of his comfort zone.
I would pull his starting spot to motivate him, but am not going to question the coaches. Maybe he is trying his best, but just reverts to AAU ball in crunch time. He made some nice passes in the first half against NC State and against weaker competition played pretty good D on the help side. He's got bad habits that used to work, but now it's time to play big boy ball. We'll need him to grow up on the floor if we're going to live up to our pre-season hype.
I wouldn't even care, if he played with effort on defense. This team scores enough to win games, even if it is horrible to watch, some times. Hold teams to 70ish points and they win.
TAtum does have some bad habits, but it is the staff's job to break those. My major concern would be is he a cancer. He clearly is not, so all the rest should fall in line.
Proud of this team for fighting hard to stay in the game, even when the refs destroyed the flow of the game with whistles every time Duke was on D. Reminded me a bit of the UConn/Duke FF game in 2004, where Duke bigs were called for looking at the opponent the wrong way. Also, Vrank should get that sort of play; if they refuse to give Bolden playing time, at least rotate 2 true bigs with Giles and Vrank. He and Luke seem to have a pretty solid 2-man game.
You know watching him and listening to Grayson speak you wouldn't think of him as a mass murderer would you.
Kid's a heckuva student too!
OFC
You know watching him and listening to Grayson speak you wouldn't think of him as a mass murderer would you.
True, but we must never forget the surviving relatives of everyone Grayson killed. They have to go on without their loved ones because of this horrible monster wearing a Duke jersey.
I had company yesterday, and only got to see pieces of the game, but I watched it early this morning...and what a game! Our guys showed great grit to come back, Grayson embraced the hate and played like a man, even though the refs are allowing opponents to beat the hell out of him. And Luke Kennard, WOW, what a game! And the team was so happy, everyone!!! We still have our problems, but I loved the way our guys hung in there.
OFC
OFC
I said in the game thread that I don't think we win against WF had Tatum remained in the game and I still stand by that. Having said that, I agree with those who are saying we need Tatum. But we need to reign him in. Either take away his starting position or pull him when he's playing hero ball; not necessarily even the whole game, but just to make him sort of snap out of it and reset.
I do often feel he is hurting our offensive flow. When he touches the ball, it's all but garuanteed he's going to try and score. That would be fine if he would let the game come to him and take shots within rhythm and not force things, but he consistently tries to do too much and the rest of the team becomes completely stagnant once the ball is in his hands.
I don't know if he is stuck in AAU mode, only cares about getting his, or what... But it's frustrating because it's obvious all the pieces are there. He's fantastic at getting to the rim and he has been a good rebounder. I just want him to play team basketball. I know he's been getting a lot of shade and I just want to say that Tatum isn't *the* problem like some here make him out to be.
I do often feel he is hurting our offensive flow. When he touches the ball, it's all but garuanteed he's going to try and score. That would be fine if he would let the game come to him and take shots within rhythm and not force things, but he consistently tries to do too much and the rest of the team becomes completely stagnant once the ball is in his hands.
I don't know if he is stuck in AAU mode, only cares about getting his, or what... But it's frustrating because it's obvious all the pieces are there. He's fantastic at getting to the rim and he has been a good rebounder. I just want him to play team basketball. I know he's been getting a lot of shade and I just want to say that Tatum isn't *the* problem like some here make him out to be.
Duke should have that won game though still. They were up 11 with under 3 left.
I agree for the time being, but if he can't put it together here soon, it will be tough to justify playing him in March.
He can do stuff other guys can't, and we need it if he can provide it but I haven't seen it yet. I liked his offensive approach against NC State, he just didn't finish at the rim. You have think he starts finishing the easy ones.
Where I am most concerned is on defense. As a team we aren't great, but he has too many miscommunications and doesn't fight to stay in front of his man. He plays matatdor defense usually. Not sure I've seen him recover and get a come from behind block all season, and is long/athletic enough to do so. He just doesn't fight to get back in the play.
If you compare the freshmen, Frank and Harry bring it. They aren't perfect, but the effort is there. Jayson and Marques just don't. It's visible. Marques had one game where he played like the player we need him to be.
I have to disagree on Marques. He just hasn't had much of an opportunity the last two games. Its about time we quit beating the dead horse (Tatum).
Marques played well against Miami. He was effectively defensively against the pick and roll. He came back against State and started off good until he missed 2 dunks. His play faded. He was nonexistent yesterday.
Not sure what opportunity he hasn't had except when he was injured.
Not sure what opportunity he hasn't had except when he was injured.
Sports media is such a disgrace anymore. On my Bleacher report app there is a video titled"watch Grayson get T'd up". Where's the one about Childress getting T'd up?!
Here it is. Granted , Allen has brought this on himself but it doesn't mean that EVERY single time he and an opposing player jaw at each other that it's Grayson's fault or particularly newsworthy. Minus the two trips ( Yeah , tarholes! I said TWO! The one vs FSU was instigated by XRM AFTER the guy stalked Allen at the end of the game , ran his mouth then popped Grayson in the back of the head. It doesn't excuse the other two , mind you , but XRM started it....verbally AND physically. The hell with 'im. ) these incidents would never draw attention. Anyway , NBC gets it right...
VIDEO: Brandon Childress tackles Grayson Allen in Duke, Wake Forest dust-up
We’ve reached a point in time where the reaction of people to any minor incident involving Grayson Allen is greater than the actual incident itself. Saturday is the perfect example.
It looked bad, but there was nothing there. Both Crawford and Allen reacted with surprise to what was going on around them:
The bad guy here? Wake Forest’s Brandon Childress, who grabbed Allen and, essentially, said “sit on the bench”:
http://collegebasketball.nbcsports....es-grayson-allen-in-duke-wake-forest-dust-up/
God forbid , Grayson interject himself in a situation that he wasn't even involved with ala Childress then throw the opponent down?!?!?! Media sheet-storm.
