Let’s just agree that we should have beaten West Virginia at least.
Duke
- Thread starter GoneFishin916
- Start date
I’m gonna add to this. The other day, a poster asked me: “So you’re gonna tell me if you replace so and so with Chet Holmgren, the team wouldn’t be better!” Questions like this presuppose the answer in the question itself. The question is loaded with the idea that pure talent is the greatest determining factor in success but the truth is a lot more complicated than that. Fit matters, continuity matters, talent yes matters also. Just because someone is a better player doesn’t mean they are a better player for THAT team.
Yes. One of the darkest days in the history of my fandom. I’ll not publicly admit I was close to tears
first time i cried bc of uk basketball was the drake maye shot
Damn good point. I think it's unarguable, especially knowing that WVA's starting PG was out for the game. 4/32 from three absolutely killed us, especially when you have Patterson and Cousins inside. Just an awful loss ...
Last edited:
Fwiw, wasnt Darryn Peterson out for the Kansas game?
One thing I admire about duke, they go all in for their basketball program. They do everything it takes to win.. whether its hire a GM, pay the most, properly utilize their student sections, good recruiting pitch (brotherhood, youll be taken care of), even cheating.
Kentucky seems hellbent on trying to do things a certain way and almost take some sort of morale high road when it comes to basketball. Just find that to be silly. You do whatever it takes to win basketball games. Duke takes a green circle trail when they can, Kentucky goes down black diamonds because they are above easy terrain.
One thing I admire about duke, they go all in for their basketball program. They do everything it takes to win.. whether its hire a GM, pay the most, properly utilize their student sections, good recruiting pitch (brotherhood, youll be taken care of), even cheating.
Kentucky seems hellbent on trying to do things a certain way and almost take some sort of morale high road when it comes to basketball. Just find that to be silly. You do whatever it takes to win basketball games. Duke takes a green circle trail when they can, Kentucky goes down black diamonds because they are above easy terrain.
Exactly. Apparently, we should simultaneously be terrified of Duke for playing good against Howard, yet also note no adjustments or improvements from our own game versus subpar competition.
Not quite we still made the elite 8 a few times and sweet 16’s. They haven’t done that in 31 years.
It’s not just the losing, it’s that this staff is whiffing on everyone and the way they have this team playing. It was widely regarded as a top 10 roster by everyone. We look like we don’t belong in the top 75.
And he didn’t have the coach who he relied on to actually win games that mattered anymore. He choked since 2019.
I think losing Robic mattered a whole lot more than the “talent” of our rosters.
It did, but the talent Cal got, the problem was either it was a weak class and he started getting the 15th ranked guys instead of 1/2/3. He also didn’t recruit to the team and positions or fit anymore. Just watched guys he was enamored with or highly rated and got them.
Think some of that was chalked up to Duke’s emergence in recruiting. Starting around the mid 10s, Duke started aggressively going after OAD and over time started commanding control there. It was mostly just us and Kansas all-in on OAD before Duke heated up.
Duke and KU I hate with a passion.
Duke is more than just a basketball rival here in WKY. That name carries a lot of weight with screwing over farmers.
Duke is more than just a basketball rival here in WKY. That name carries a lot of weight with screwing over farmers.
Cal embraced "one and done" early. Once Duke, Kansas, and other schools saw it was successful, they then emulated Cal and competed for a number of top prospects. The best few players started going to other schools. So then we would get freshman who would have a fraction of the immediate impact of a Cousins, for example, play just one season and leave. And then we would replace them with another good, but not elite freshman. It was a treadmill we couldn't escape.
I would also add that we had huge contributions from returning players during Cal's most successful stretch. We are a much different team in '10 and '11 without BCG's recruits. In 2012, we were lucky to have Jones return. Lamb and Miller were essential members of the team. And then we had the behemoth 2015 roster.
Last edited:
Its not easy to hit on the right coach, especially following a legend. Sure, I have complaints about Scheyer, especially late game situations. But overall the results have been excellent and I believe we have hit on the right guy. There is indeed some luck there but I will take it.
Kentucky will be fine as always. I am at an age (48) where I realize it is incredibly difficult to win a National Championship. If Duke doesn’t win it again the remainder of my lifetime (hopefully 100), it was still a great run with more winning than most. I think most level headed UK fans my age believe the same about UK.
Kentucky will be fine as always. I am at an age (48) where I realize it is incredibly difficult to win a National Championship. If Duke doesn’t win it again the remainder of my lifetime (hopefully 100), it was still a great run with more winning than most. I think most level headed UK fans my age believe the same about UK.
To be fair, “winning at a high level” and winning at the highest level (championship) are not the same standard. I think recruiting classes have a lot to do with winning at a high level, but every championship team needs something more than just talent to get to the top.
Yeah but since I had already had discussions about the topic before and had present indisputable evidence about what championship rosters look like, I already knew these discussions usually involve someone trying to sidestep the whole conversation and say it’s only about titles. So I went a step further —- I have all of the information about every team that was in the final four in the last ten years. I can unequivocally say, without hesitance, HS talent means little when weighing what makes great teams great. I’ve still yet to hear a single argument —- and believe me, I’d love to hear one —- that could make me second guess my points. We are so infatuated with OAD, even though they make up only 5% of the starters in that timeframe. There’s a reason for that. It isn’t chance. Especially when you consider that a starter on a final four team is literally more than five times likely to be a zero star recruit than a 5-star OAD. And btw almost all the 5 stars were all concentrated on two teams. I fully believe it is indisputable—-and that’s why I’m so passionate about it.
They look so bad its kinda hard to give em the ol gosh darnit you're doing the best you can and we so proud.. Start looking like an actual team and start winning.. That will get everyone on board..
It’s hopeless dude . Too many have only known the Calipari way . When you show them actual facts and statistics,but they still want to argue……
You can’t use reason to win an argument against someone that didn’t use reason to form their opinion in the first place.
IMO Duke is Nikes baby. Coach K was great for marketing the last few years of his run. Even Jay Williams reported this is to why Duke was being advertised and promoted so much. Ever notice why big time players are not being talked about like Cooper Flagg or Zion Williamson was? It’s an organization of sponsorship and marketing for Nike therefore they are gonna have an advantage on recruiting. Not to mention the untelling of what Nike throws at a recruit to go to Duke.
Duke been a better program for a while now count UConn in that group as well . You look at our last 10 yrs we’re last in blue blood status Duke UConn Kansas and unc have been far better than Kentucky and its Mitch Barnhart fault for letting cal staying 6yrs to long . Now giving contracts extensions for sweet 16s he just keeps f things up over and over and the board of trustees and president approves of this bs as well . This is how you become a program like Indiana but instead of being good at least at football we are good at NOTHING expect for volleyball that very little people care about and the women’s basketball program that looks to maybe on the rise . But who cares men’s athletics carry the revenue and money . It’s all bad
A step is being nice they are mountains above us . I like pope but he hasn’t done shi in recruiting and looks like he’s gonna miss out again . You give him 3 yrs and he better get to a final four . It’s already been over 10 yrs since our last final four . When do you call yourself no longer a blue blood . If he’s gone after yr 3 it’ll be 13 yrs and will have to restart again and then it’ll probably be another 3-4 after that . Ah this is awful I can see it I can see it
Lucky for us we get Mitch and Eli caplitio gone by next yr . Maybe things get better for both programs before we just go completely off the rails.
I honestly ( not hating ) see them choking like years past, with really good teamsBut what’ll they do in tournament
thisOne can't really argue with what you said but it sure seems we are stuck in what you said as well; whole new team, injuries, exiting the tournament early every year these days.
After reading that CNN article about watching Michigan ST players get off the bus in New York all together and all wearing Michigan St sweats and then seeing UK arrive and exiting the bus one by one and how many were dressed in very expensive clothing that resembled a NBA team tells me UK might have a culture issue as well.
Among many, that game stands out to me as the worst coaching performance by a HOF coach, ever. Shots were not falling all game long, you have the most dominant center in decades(Cousins) and instead of going inside, Cal keeps chucking 3's. All the while, with an absolutely loaded roster, with all the chips on the table in a win or go home game. Ya can't even make that kind of stupid up if ya tried. Even a middle school coach doesn't do that! WVU had bigs in foul trouble too! That's another thing Cal never did...go after guys in foul trouble.
I mean, WVU hit us with a 1-3-1 zone and it confused the heck out of us. We couldn't penetrate that zone and it forced us into shooting from outside.
Sometimes in the tournament, one coach just has a better game plan. It's not always that every game Cal loses was some egregiously bad coaching performance by him (and that applies to Pope as well). Huggins made the right call to throw a type of zone at us that the young players likely hadn't seen yet or prepared for. He called our bluff and it worked. It was probably the only way they win that game.
Wow with all the deep seated negativity going around here youve singled me out?!I have been negative to some of the trolls that have come here and just been utterly relentless then disappear when anything good happens. I think someone else posted about you earlier that you have turned pretty negative towards the team. Your history is being an outstanding poster and I have no doubt how strong your passion is for the cats so you can get frustrated at time as well so can I. That is your right to do. I get that. I've been frustrated with those two games they lost as well, but it is so early in the season and some of the crap that is being said is way over the top.
Last edited:
I remember it well. Huggins was famous for his zone defenses. We were12.5% on 4 of freakin 32 from 3 with Orton, Patterson and Cousins inside and had almost as many offensive rebounds as they had defensive, too. We killed them on the glass. I mean, you're 4 of 32 from 3, with the best frontcourt in the game, the best point guard in the nation..who is a penetrate and assist guy...and you keep chucking 3's. That doesn't make a bit of sense to me.
Yep, I was there. Obviously we made some blunders, some of which was before that game by probably not having them work on zones more.
I think the "3" of the 1-3-1 made it very tough to penetrate and kick and kick out.
I definitely agree. This site is filled with tension. I always like your posts. I have been on a rant lately that is contributing to the environment around here.