Electives in College

[Beatle Bum]

If you know what you want to study and what you want to be professionally, why should some academic force you to take credits in an area you can read about on your own IF you have the interest? Why should you be forced to take an English, Philosophy, or other “elective?” Seems the kid who knows what he or she wants should be able to get most undergraduate degrees in 3 years, tops. Why should we put up with schools that force kids to take electives?

If you want to spend a bunch on electives because you have the time and cash or want to test different areas, go for it, but why require them for graduation?

 

[TortElvisII]

 

[vhcat70]

Electives are where you get heavy doses of wokeness - a necessity to college administrations.

 

[funKYcat75]

Might as well get rid of music, p.e., art, drama, languages, computer skills, etc. at the grade school level then too. Get the little robots trained in one job and not have any other skills or interests. How dare they try to be well-rounded people.

Also, only three posts until someone someone used "woke". Surprised it took that long.

I could go on, but the usual suspects should be by any time to ruin the thread. Have fun.

 

[JumperJack]

Might as well get rid of music, p.e., art, drama, languages, computer skills, etc. at the grade school level then too. Get the little robots trained in one job and not have any other skills or interests. How dare they try to be well-rounded people.

Also, only three posts until someone someone used "woke". Surprised it took that long.

I could go on, but the usual suspects should be by any time to ruin the thread. Have fun.

Couldn't you become well-rounded in a less expensive way that doesn’t drive up the cost of education for everyone else?

 

[AustinTXCat]

I could go on, but the usual suspects should be by any time to ruin the thread. Have fun.

No doubt.

 

[812scottj]

Schools like this exist for the trades, I wish more students would choose that route. The world needs people who can things, there’s very good money to be made in some of those fields

 

[TriangleUKCat]

Schools like this exist for the trades, I wish more students would choose that route. The world needs people who can things, there’s very good money to be made in some of those fields

Yes, the world needs more canneries.

 

[Beatle Bum]

Might as well get rid of music, p.e., art, drama, languages, computer skills, etc. at the grade school level then too. Get the little robots trained in one job and not have any other skills or interests. How dare they try to be well-rounded people.

Also, only three posts until someone someone used "woke". Surprised it took that long.

I could go on, but the usual suspects should be by any time to ruin the thread. Have fun.

It seems odd to me to compare grade school to college. You don’t see a distinction? And, you believe educated people go to college to become “well-rounded people?” That seems like a shallow reason for college. I would hope that most people continue their education and development well after college and outside of college. People who don’t go to college can be as or more “well-rounded” as those who do. I just don’t see how that is the purpose of the university.

When I went to grad school and law school there were no efforts to offer electives. Their focus was on the subject we wanted to learn. Why should the student who knows they want a business degree need the college to tell them what “well-rounded” means?

That said, I don’t have a beef with a kid wanting a year of “well-roundedness” in his or her college experience. One of my kids finished up in three, but took mainly a language in year 4, because he was on a full ride. But should it be required? Taking 1/4 off the cost of college for a degree seems like a good idea for some people.

 

[FtWorthCat]

The primary purpose of electives is to boost your overall GPA. At least that's the way I saw it. However, I did enjoy Art Appreciation and the lab for Astronomy.

 

[funKYcat75]

We all know that money isn’t “real” when it comes to universities.

I just fail to see any reason why you wouldn’t want to explore other subjects outside of your major. You can’t take all the requisites for your major at the same time so a little enrichment isn’t going to hurt. You’re paying for 12 hours of credits, so if that means taking 15-18 hours including an elective that broadens your abilities and base isn’t that bad. Once you’re a junior/senior those electives are finished anyway.

I know we have diffeeent opinions on college professors and whatnot, but (for the most part) they are experts in their field and what better way than to be face to face with one, learning about something that will make you overall a better and more well-rounded person

Just my opinion. Your mileage may vary.

By the way, when I was in school at UK it was pretty well known that Med school wasn’t just looking for Biology majors. They wanted hard working and smart folks from all undergrad areas. Seems to be a pretty good parallel to this conversation, IMO of course.

 

[UK 82]

Pharmacy 101, or was it 201, was one of the most popular electives at UK back in the late 70s for obvious reason.

 

[chroix]

If you know what you want to study and what you want to be professionally, why should some academic force you to take credits in an area you can read about on your own IF you have the interest? Why should you be forced to take an English, Philosophy, or other “elective?” Seems the kid who knows what he or she wants should be able to get most undergraduate degrees in 3 years, tops. Why should we put up with schools that force kids to take electives?

If you want to spend a bunch on electives because you have the time and cash or want to test different areas, go for it, but why require them for graduation?

It’s a legit question. Many parts of college are a racket. If you can make it work without going you can save a lot of money but for most people this is not the case.

 

[AustinTXCat]

It’s a legit question. Many parts of college are a racket. If you can make it work without going you can save a lot of money but for most people this is not the case.

+1

Years ago, I worked P/T gig as a university online program analyst. Huge selling point for nationally recognized schools centered on name recognition. Bigger = better. Average Joe willing to pay much more for a BS/BA and Masters from the likes of Stanford, Duke, Arizona State, etc. than, say, Cumberland or Liberty.

Liberty caters largely to a semi-captive audience (military). Online revenues far exceed on-campus with much less overhead. Number one thing many students are concerned with is acceptance by a potential employer. As we all are aware, Liberty and Falwell = profane language. Same goes for University of Phoenix.

Numerous students said, "screw you", and earned BA degrees from the likes of Excelsior, Charter Oak and Thomas Edison. Surprising number gained acceptance to other more nationally recognized graduate degree programs.

Yeah, it's a racket when one can CLEP test / DSST test out of first couple years undergrad and still earn a grad degree from Arizona State or even Duke, if you have enough $.

 

[CaptainBoogerBuns]

Pharmacy 101, or was it 201, was one of the most popular electives at UK back in the late 70s for obvious reason.

 

[wildcatsboston1984_rivals]

If you know what you want to study and what you want to be professionally, why should some academic force you to take credits in an area you can read about on your own IF you have the interest? Why should you be forced to take an English, Philosophy, or other “elective?” Seems the kid who knows what he or she wants should be able to get most undergraduate degrees in 3 years, tops. Why should we put up with schools that force kids to take electives?

If you want to spend a bunch on electives because you have the time and cash or want to test different areas, go for it, but why require them for graduation?

Don't know if you've ever been to college but quite a lot of students end up changing their major because of other classes they end up taking that opens their mind to something else they would rather pursue.

I'd estimate around 75% of my graduating class that started out in my major ended up pursuing a different major.

I never ended up switching my major, but I nearly pulled the trigger on switching. My brother changed majors.

I've also found some of the non-major classes I took to be useful. Hell, the conscious relaxation techniques class I took for one credit has been really useful.

 

[wildcatsboston1984_rivals]

When I went to grad school and law school there were no efforts to offer electives. Their focus was on the subject we wanted to learn.

Because grad school and law school are the trade schools you go to after you complete college.

 

[wildcatsboston1984_rivals]

The primary purpose of electives is to boost your overall GPA. At least that's the way I saw it. However, I did enjoy Art Appreciation and the lab for Astronomy.

I really liked my psychology classes, especially the labs. It was neat being able to put some of what I learned in the classroom into action in the lab. Trained the hell out of that rat! I wonder whatever happened to him, he was my little dude lol.

I wish I had taken a different class to satisfy the art requirement. I took a theater tech class. Thought I would get to do some behind the scenes stuff with theater like building props, running lights, etc. Instead it was just all lecture and book learning. Spent two whole weeks on wood, was so boring.

I really liked some of my general education/elective classes - Nutrition, Religions of Asia, Ethics, Econ, Marketing, Personal and Family Finance (more useful than enjoyable), and Media Writing (I was going to minor in journalism but dropped it when I realized it would require me to write for the embarrassingly bad school newspaper)

 

[wildcatsboston1984_rivals]

Didn't end up taking any biology classes in college, but loved it in HS and considered majoring between that, history, and sport management. When I opted for sport management, I decided to go with psychology because all the other science classes they offered I had experience with it in HS so I wanted to get something different.

That was kind of my goal with my general education classes when possible, take something different than what I had experienced in HS. Then with my electives it was a combo of being useful for daily life, complimentary to what I was majoring in, or just something I thought I would like or was new to me.

LIke 15 years later I can look in hindsight and say I should have majroed in something different than sport management, but how was I to know that 12 years into the field I'd get burned out and want to leave for good?

 

[Beatle Bum]

We all know that money isn’t “real” when it comes to universities.

I just fail to see any reason why you wouldn’t want to explore other subjects outside of your major. You can’t take all the requisites for your major at the same time so a little enrichment isn’t going to hurt. You’re paying for 12 hours of credits, so if that means taking 15-18 hours including an elective that broadens your abilities and base isn’t that bad. Once you’re a junior/senior those electives are finished anyway.

I know we have diffeeent opinions on college professors and whatnot, but (for the most part) they are experts in their field and what better way than to be face to face with one, learning about something that will make you overall a better and more well-rounded person

Just my opinion. Your mileage may vary.

By the way, when I was in school at UK it was pretty well known that Med school wasn’t just looking for Biology majors. They wanted hard working and smart folks from all undergrad areas. Seems to be a pretty good parallel to this conversation, IMO of course.

I don’t know what you think others think about professors, but the point is not why someone wouldn’t want to learn more than their major, it is why colleges should make electives mandatory. Take college classes for the rest of your life, if you want. I think that may be good for some people and certainly would never discourage it. But, why should students be forced to take classes they don’t care about.

Sure, student debt may be a thing of the past if all colleges become government institutions providing free services, but until that day, why can’t a kid go get the classes needed for their major?

Speaking to your personal belief about what makes for a fuller life is irrelevant to the person who wants a specific degree.

As to med school, sure biology is not a great pre-med major as it greatly limits your foundation for the MCAT. But, med schools wanted STEM students. The political science/philosophy major is not a good candidate for med school, even though they may be smart folks. Same with business majors and others. Med schools aren’t just taking smart hardworking people without the proper foundations.

 

[Beatle Bum]

Pharmacy 101, or was it 201, was one of the most popular electives at UK back in the late 70s for obvious reason.

And that military science class that a bunch of people took. What was that?

 

[Beatle Bum]

Don't know if you've ever been to college but quite a lot of students end up changing their major because of other classes they end up taking that opens their mind to something else they would rather pursue.

I'd estimate around 75% of my graduating class that started out in my major ended up pursuing a different major.

I never ended up switching my major, but I nearly pulled the trigger on switching. My brother changed majors.

I've also found some of the non-major classes I took to be useful. Hell, the conscious relaxation techniques class I took for one credit has been really useful.

Whether a non-major class is “useful” is irrelevant. Take classes if you want. No one is stopping you. There were some you did not take that certainly would have been “useful.” Just don’t compel them for a major.

Sure, a lot of kids think they are going to be doctors and engineers until they take an actual science course that weeds them to another major. And, some realize after 30+ hours of psych that the major is full of people with problems, so they change. But, if a kid wants to be a business major, why can’t he/she just get the classes just required for that area of study?

Answer: as stated above, it’s a racket.

 

[funKYcat75]

I don’t know what you think others think about professors

In the current climate, academic folks are under attack (not physically ... usually) because about 1/2 of the country thinks that they're "indoctrinating" students and blah blah blah.

Not gonna chage your mind and you won't change mine. Electives and exploratory classes are important. More knowledge is better than less knowledge. Once you're working as a young adult, making the bare minumum in your field and trying to outwork everyone else in order to climb the ladder (not to mention grad/Med/Law school) there is a very good possibility that you'll not have an opportunity to take a bunch of elective classes and time will just get in the way.

 

[cat_in_the_hat]

Whether a non-major class is “useful” is irrelevant. Take classes if you want. No one is stopping you. There were some you did not take that certainly would have been “useful.” Just don’t compel them for a major.

Sure, a lot of kids think they are going to be doctors and engineers until they take an actual science course that weeds them to another major. And, some realize after 30+ hours of psych that the major is full of people with problems, so they change. But, if a kid wants to be a business major, why can’t he/she just get the classes just required for that area of study?

Answer: as stated above, it’s a racket.

I think it probably goes beyond being a racket. Although I personally believe that Kentucky's small liberal arts colleges offer some of the best educational opportunities around, I have some sympathy for what you are saying, especially since college education has become so expensive. But fundamentally I think it's about standards. Each school is setting a standard every person has to meet to receive a degree. I suppose the standard could be to complete the classes in your major, but most universities create a standard higher than that. I think it's more about the perception the university wants to create and the standards it believes their students should meet before they can receive a degree. I think if it were merely a racket this would be new phenomena but it's been this way forever.

 

[Beatle Bum]

In the current climate, academic folks are under attack (not physically ... usually) because about 1/2 of the country thinks that they're "indoctrinating" students and blah blah blah.

Not gonna chage your mind and you won't change mine. Electives and exploratory classes are important. More knowledge is better than less knowledge. Once you're working as a young adult, making the bare minumum in your field and trying to outwork everyone else in order to climb the ladder (not to mention grad/Med/Law school) there is a very good possibility that you'll not have an opportunity to take a bunch of elective classes and time will just get in the way.

The pendulum swings, and often too far, but there was a time when professors were never challenged. So, the fact that some are being revealed as quacks in ivory towers is, IMO, not a bad thing. The idea that academia is never challenged is antithetical to its foundations.

Your right, we won’t agree on forced college education of areas for the purpose of claiming it will broaden perspectives and be “useful”. Let people decide if they want to take an “elective” or not. The idea of education should, in large part, teach people how to learn, not what to learn. Once you know how to learn, you really shouldn’t need a formal classroom. If you stopped learning when you left college, you probably lack a lot of “usefulness.”

 

[Beatle Bum]

I think it probably goes beyond being a racket. Although I personally believe that Kentucky's small liberal arts colleges offer some of the best educational opportunities around, I have some sympathy for what you are saying, especially since college education has become so expensive. But fundamentally I think it's about standards. Each school is setting a standard every person has to meet to receive a degree. I suppose the standard could be to complete the classes in your major, but most universities create a standard higher than that. I think it's more about the perception the university wants to create and the standards it believes their students should meet before they can receive a degree. I think if it were merely a racket this would be new phenomena but it's been this way forever.

Well, when you read people’s opinions that electives are for boasting GPA, it does not seem like a higher standard.

 

[Ron Mehico]

In the current climate of the costs of higher education, it’s a very fair question. At this stage it’s hard to justify it not being a money grab when you see how many people complain of “crippling” college debt. When intro to bowling (an actual class some of my friends took) was 200 bucks when I was in college is now 5,000 then it seems less fun and more predatory quite frankly. Another question would be has it always been this way? If in the 1850s you only took relevant courses and it was 2/3 years to graduate but then they changed it to requiring electives than I think you can say it was a smart money grab by the university and should now be seriously questioned.

 

[Ohiocatfan826]

One undeniable fact, is that most of those colleges couldnt support themselves with out the university forcing people to take electives that fall in those colleges. someone else also mentioned that tons of people change majors when they find the major they selected is way more difficult than they are willing to commit to, or possibly even have the ability to complete. Also a fact a ton of kids are graduating with degrees that are so absolutely pointless and worthless because of the reason above, that those electives turn into requirements for some of those degrees. To many kids are ending up going to college to graduate with degrees that pay less than what it cost them to attend one year of school. Had a friend that graduated with some type of paralegal degree from UK after changing majors several times. She struggled with what she really wanted to be (dentist) and ended up graduating with a degree that was easier to get. If she had started working at McDonalds when she graduated high school, with 3% annual increases (or even less) she would have been way ahead in life over what that degree got her. 19K a year job with ridiculous hours.

I agree with make the electives available if you want but dont force engineering majors to take an anthropology class to meet their cross disciplinary requirement to graduate. If that happens I think what people will find is that those electives will dry up, because there simply arent enough people taking them to make them work and no jobs to support careers in those fields.

 

[UKUGA]

I at least enjoyed the Sociology courses I took as electives.

I also took “Vocal Production for the Stage”, which actually helped me with public speaking.

 

[gamecockcat]

I have a EE degree from UK. Electives I took as part of my requirements included Psych 100, Anthropology 100, a couple of English Lit/Composition, Music Appreciation. What possible benefit did these classes provide? Well rounded? I read >50 books a year in a variety of subjects. I've played guitar for 40 years and have taught myself all of the music theory I know. I could go on.

College should prepare a person for a career, not self actualization. With a year of college going for $25k and up (not to mention a year of foregone working wages instead of taking electives), is it really in most kids' best interest to pay exorbitant costs to conform to someone else's idea of 'well rounded'? The libraries and internet have more than enough information for someone to pursue well-roundedness on their own for minimal cost.

Maybe, for incoming freshman, there should be an intro course or two to introduce the various colleges within the university with a case study of an interesting achievement in that area. But, requiring basically a full year of courses that a student may or may not have any interest in whatsoever is just stealing money, imo. As Caveman said, by all means, allow students to take as many electives and non-major classes they want. But don't require everyone to do so. Maybe all I ever wanted to be is an accountant. Why not let me get all the accounting classes I need in the shortest, and least expensive, way possible?

 

[UKUGA]

I have a EE degree from UK. Electives I took as part of my requirements included Psych 100, Anthropology 100, a couple of English Lit/Composition, Music Appreciation. What possible benefit did these classes provide? Well rounded? I read >50 books a year in a variety of subjects. I've played guitar for 40 years and have taught myself all of the music theory I know. I could go on.

College should prepare a person for a career, not self actualization. With a year of college going for $25k and up (not to mention a year of foregone working wages instead of taking electives), is it really in most kids' best interest to pay exorbitant costs to conform to someone else's idea of 'well rounded'? The libraries and internet have more than enough information for someone to pursue well-roundedness on their own for minimal cost.

Maybe, for incoming freshman, there should be an intro course or two to introduce the various colleges within the university with a case study of an interesting achievement in that area. But, requiring basically a full year of courses that a student may or may not have any interest in whatsoever is just stealing money, imo. As Caveman said, by all means, allow students to take as many electives and non-major classes they want. But don't require everyone to do so. Maybe all I ever wanted to be is an accountant. Why not let me get all the accounting classes I need in the shortest, and least expensive, way possible?

I took Anthro 100 in 1997. My dad died that spring, so the TA gave me an A. From that point forward, I centered my electives in thr Sociology Department. (My recollection is that Anthro fell under broader Sociology).

The next fall, I took another Soc/Anthro, with a TA. She was cool young lady from CA who told us that she had no idea where Kentucky was until she applied to go to grad school there.

We laughed at her, and she said that is just how California is, you don’t think you will ever need to go anywhere else. (This was her personal example of ethnocentrism).

A lot has changed in 25 years.

 

[VaxxedObamaCat]

I never got to do any of the fun classes that I hear others took- stuff like bowling, badminton, kickboxing, etc.

The stuff I had to take was diversity requirements and somehow had Human Sexuality and Religious Studies (taught by a white Muslim female whose mom used to walk on coals and had a Muslim student come in to recruit us for Islamic Awareness Week). And some other bogus classes.

What I hated was being required stuff like Astronomy and so many math courses that I would never use in life either. The other stuff at least had some interesting element to them but math is not interesting to me and after basic math skills obtained as a kid, you'll be good for most of your life and most professions.

 

[Tskware]

Not wading into this but will share that I took a Cinema course at UK, thinking it would be a bunny, and that turned out to be a big time mistake.

Had to watch a ton of films, many foreign, and wrote some really long papers, our prof was a Cuban immigrant who took movies about as seriously as Alabama takes football and basically worked our *** off. Once when someone complained, he told them "you are in college, what did you expect??"

 

[UKWildcats1987]

Electives are mostly a joke but if you are not sure of your major they can be helpful. My biggest thing was the intro history and English courses at college weren't anything I didn't learn in high school.

To be fair you can attempt to test out of many electives nowadays. If I was 18 again I'd be taking like 18 hours a semester and a couple each summer so I could finish in 3 years or allow the 4th year to be an internship or entry level paid work in my major field.

 

[Tskware]

I took a lot of things that I never used, like French, Latin and Trig and some calculus, but all of that trains your mind to think, which should be one of the main goals of higher education, thus I think some level of electives, especially outside of your college major, is really beneficial.

But . . . if you know you want to be a mason or an electrician, or a real estate agent, or a restaurant owner (many of whom make a damn good living), technically you don't have to study any of those subjects. I think you may be missing out on a lot of ideas which will broaden you, but it is a personal choice, no one is going to put a gun to your head to make you learn to conjugate verbs in a foreign language or how to calculate the volume of a lake.

[Sorry, I guess I did wade into the subject]

 

[Dore95]

This is a sad thread. But if you look at higher education as a "racket" and merely a place for "indoctrination" then I guess I could see how you see no value in "elective" courses.

 

[bthaunert]

I’ve worked in Higher Ed for 23 years now at 4 different universities. Hell, I was the Associate Director in the department that offered PE classes for credit at Oregon. You can take 12 1 credit PE classes at Oregon as electives that count toward your degree.

And I agree with those that say there should be an option (maybe a 3 year degree) for a bachelors that doesn’t include directives. I mean, I took golf, billiards, women’s studies (go ahead, lay it on me), university 101, pop culture, etc. m

Let an employee decide if they prefer a 3 year or 4 year degree. Let grad programs decide if they require a 3 or 4 year degree. The student can then make a decision based on those perimeters.

 

[Ukbrassowtipin]

I get the explore your interests, find what you are interested in. But a lot of it is bc of $$$.

When I was at UK and it may be everywhere, but you got 3 classes you could elect to take pass/fail outside of your major. In other words it did nothing to your GPA so you never went as long as you got a D. Complete waste of time.

Also side note, when I was at UK, human sexuality 300 I believe it was, was the most popular elective. You watched porn, they had speakers come in and give away sex toys. Also talked about stds, and some of the class discussed gender, the alphabet ppl, fetishes, and what not. But I can't imagine what that class is like today with the pronoun mafia. That of course didn't exist then. I'm guessing now its probably more of a lecture on privileges.

 

[wildcatsboston1984_rivals]

Whether a non-major class is “useful” is irrelevant. Take classes if you want. No one is stopping you. There were some you did not take that certainly would have been “useful.” Just don’t compel them for a major.

Sure, a lot of kids think they are going to be doctors and engineers until they take an actual science course that weeds them to another major. And, some realize after 30+ hours of psych that the major is full of people with problems, so they change. But, if a kid wants to be a business major, why can’t he/she just get the classes just required for that area of study?

Answer: as stated above, it’s a racket.

If you don't want to take classes outside of your major, then go to a trade school.

 

[wildcatsboston1984_rivals]

I at least enjoyed the Sociology courses I took as electives.

I also took “Vocal Production for the Stage”, which actually helped me with public speaking.

I had to take some communications class where one of the main tasks of the class was for each person to write and deliver in front of the class several speeches with the "difficulty level" being increased each time. So you could have like the whole speech written out the first time and you could essentially just read it. Next time you could only have a bunch of notes. Next one you could only do like 5 note cards. Next one like one card. Or something like that.

It definitely made me a whole lot more comfortable and comfortable with public speaking and the like. I mean I still don't like it, but I have been plenty comfortable and confident doing it ever since. Paid dividends in grad school as there were a lot of presentations I had to do. Ended up being quite helpful in my previous career in college athletics as I ended up doing some PA Announcing and commentary on streamed games, something which I can't imagine me ever being able to do if I hadn't been required to take the class.