ESPN: Asterisk? / RJ MVP

[BeerPoisoning]

Sounds like ESPN is indirectly responding to Little’s comments. Couple opinions here. Zion’s injury has nothing to do with UNC and they don’t deserve to be discredited. So I agree that you don’t asterisk their victory. But although they don’t deserve to be discredited, I don’t believe they deserve being hyped over the win either.

I really like that they mentioned RJ as our MVP. If you aren’t actually watching Duke, the highlights and coverage of Zion would lead you to believe that RJ is his back-up dancer and not his equal. We need both of them healthy and performing to win this natty!!!

 

[dukedevilz]

Zion has a Player Efficiency Rating of 42.9, while RJ is at 24.9. RJ is awesome and certainly worthy of All-American accolades. But Zion is arguably the best player of the 21st century. Simply put, Zion is Batman. RJ is Robin.

 

[OldasdirtDevil]

Sounds like ESPN is indirectly responding to Little’s comments. Couple opinions here. Zion’s injury has nothing to do with UNC and they don’t deserve to be discredited. So I agree that you don’t asterisk their victory. But although they don’t deserve to be discredited, I don’t believe they deserve being hyped over the win either.

I really like that they mentioned RJ as our MVP. If you aren’t actually watching Duke, the highlights and coverage of Zion would lead you to believe that RJ is his back-up dancer and not his equal. We need both of them healthy and performing to win this natty!!!

Yeah, sounds like they want to soothe the poor little Heel's ego. But before Little's whining this was the original release.

OFC

 

[Shatterthesky22]

Sorry but you kind of have put an asterisk beside it. With Zion in Big Fluke Maye is an absolute afterthought the whole game. If Zion played, the game at the Nose Dome would be an opportunity to sweep the Cheats, not the other way around. Sorry ESPN but you guys are the fools here.

 

[skysdad]

Much to do about nothing on a slow day. Hope this thread just simply dies. Nothing against the O.P. though. Just something to get Duke fans rattled. OFC

 

[LongTimeDukeFan]

It's not a fluke...they scored more points in a game with their team then with the team that Duke could put on the floor.

No astericks. They won. We did not. Our team cannot be in a constant state of shell-shocked.

1. Tre is out...we're done.
2. Zion is out...we're done.
3. We can't shoot the 3....we're done.
4. Well <x> just happened....we're done. REALLY?!

Cr@p! It would be nice if we had some bench play.

Do we have resilience? Well, it kind of looked like it with Louisville. I am personally glad that Baker is now playing. I hope he can give the team some juice.

 

[bullettoothtony]

I usually don't mind Myron's articles but that one was asinine.

Look at the advanced metrics... Zion's impact on our team, on players individually... they're astonishing. And the fact that he's also our team's pulse... it's impossible to overstate the impact of him going down that quickly. And also with the unknown of the extent of the injury AT THAT TIME.

Silly article likely done to appease Cheat fans.

 

[Mr.Scary13]

It's not a fluke...they scored more points in a game with their team then with the team that Duke could put on the floor.

No astericks. They won. We did not. Our team cannot be in a constant state of shell-shocked.

1. Tre is out...we're done.
2. Zion is out...we're done.
3. We can't shoot the 3....we're done.
4. Well <x> just happened....we're done. REALLY?!

Cr@p! It would be nice if we had some bench play.

Do we have resilience? Well, it kind of looked like it with Louisville. I am personally glad that Baker is now playing. I hope he can give the team some juice.

Wrong, it's a major asterisk. Yes, they won, but to say there's not a fluke involved with the best player in the country going down is absured.

 

[LongTimeDukeFan]

Wrong, it's a major asterisk. Yes, they won, but to say there's not a fluke involved with the best player in the country going down is absured.

Wrong? Sorry...it's the Duke Blue Devils...it's a team. Win as a team, lose as a team. Best player goes down? The rest of the team has to step up. Zion going down unfortunate? Big time! Still lost -- don't quite see where the asterick would go.

 

[bullcity gamer]

Gonzaga is the only team in the country to defeat a Healthy Duke Squad this season

 

[Shatterthesky22]

Wrong? Sorry...it's the Duke Blue Devils...it's a team. Win as a team, lose as a team. Best player goes down? The rest of the team has to step up. Zion going down unfortunate? Big time! Still lost -- don't quite see where the asterick would go.

The asterisk goes beside Maye's 30 and 15. It would be generous to say he scored 10 and grabs 5 boards with Zion in. Also, Zion is a quarter of our teams scoring, it's kind of hard to replace that right away, and no matter what we could've done, you can't replace Zion. It simply isn't feasible.

 

[LongTimeDukeFan]

....and no matter what we could've done, you can't replace Zion. It simply isn't feasible.

Sounds like we just should have forfeited 33 seconds into the game.

 

[IPSYCHOSIS]

Dude chill

 

[BeerPoisoning]

Zion has a Player Efficiency Rating of 42.9, while RJ is at 24.9. RJ is awesome and certainly worthy of All-American accolades. But Zion is arguably the best player of the 21st century. Simply put, Zion is Batman. RJ is Robin.

Zion (Shaq) and RJ (Kobe) are comparable to the ‘02 Lakers. Shaq was finals MVP, more efficient, more rebounds. Kobe had the slight edge in PPG. It’s like the great debate: “Who is more important?” — The statistical nod goes to Shaq, most would say Shaq. But overall it’s a close race. They were own dominant in their own way and neither took a backseat to the other. They were a spectacular duo, just like Z and RJ.

Sorry but you kind of have put an asterisk beside it. With Zion in Big Fluke Maye is an absolute afterthought the whole game. If Zion played, the game at the Nose Dome would be an opportunity to sweep the Cheats, not the other way around. Sorry ESPN but you guys are the fools here.

No — Asterisks are used in sports to denote a tainted achievement. Example: Barry Bonds home run record asterisk for steroid use.

Carolina won fair and square. There was nothing dirty about their win, no asterisk is required. If a UNC player would have punched Zion 33 seconds into the game and he sat the game due to a broken nose, then that’s a different story. You can’t discredit a win for situations out of their control. Z’s injury takes the glory and hype away from the win, not the crediting of it.

 

[bullettoothtony]

^ Your arguing semantics. An asterisk, a qualifier, a parenthetical... I don 't give a damn what you call it. The win counts, but given the circumstances it should be regarded as one of the most inconsequential victories by either team in the rivalry's recent history.

And again, who gives a dump how it's denoted. As long as it is.

 

[Laettshow]

Zion has a Player Efficiency Rating of 42.9, while RJ is at 24.9. RJ is awesome and certainly worthy of All-American accolades. But Zion is arguably the best player of the 21st century. Simply put, Zion is Batman. RJ is Robin.

Zion is Batman
RJ is Spiderman
Both great just different type of games.

 

[Shatterthesky22]

Zion (Shaq) and RJ (Kobe) are comparable to the ‘02 Lakers. Shaq was finals MVP, more efficient, more rebounds. Kobe had the slight edge in PPG. It’s like the great debate: “Who is more important?” — The statistical nod goes to Shaq, most would say Shaq. But overall it’s a close race. They were own dominant in their own way and neither took a backseat to the other. They were a spectacular duo, just like Z and RJ.



No — Asterisks are used in sports to denote a tainted achievement. Example: Barry Bonds home run record asterisk for steroid use.

Carolina won fair and square. There was nothing dirty about their win, no asterisk is required. If a UNC player would have punched Zion 33 seconds into the game and he sat the game due to a broken nose, then that’s a different story. You can’t discredit a win for situations out of their control. Z’s injury takes the glory and hype away from the win, not the crediting of it.

Yeah, Z is like Shaq in this situation, so if someone say the Kings, Spurs, whoever would've beaten those Lakers during their three year run in the playoffs, without Shaq, wouldn't you put an asterisk beside their series win? I would've. The Pistons beat them with Shaq and Kobe, no asterisk required. I use it to denote extraordinary situations, which is what was required for UNC to win. Zion plays, Duke is 25-2 right now, period.

 

[Shatterthesky22]

Sounds like we just should have forfeited 33 seconds into the game.

No, not what I'm saying. I'm saying Zion is like Kobe, LeBron, Jordan, you take those guys away from the Lakers, Cavs and Bulls and they simply are not the same team.

 

[kwyjibos13]

It's not a fluke...they scored more points in a game with their team then with the team that Duke could put on the floor.

No astericks. They won. We did not. Our team cannot be in a constant state of shell-shocked.

1. Tre is out...we're done.
2. Zion is out...we're done.
3. We can't shoot the 3....we're done.
4. Well <x> just happened....we're done. REALLY?!

Cr@p! It would be nice if we had some bench play.

Do we have resilience? Well, it kind of looked like it with Louisville. I am personally glad that Baker is now playing. I hope he can give the team some juice.

It will be hard to win a championship with a team's best player out and they have a good chance of losing if they cannot do what they are good at. Stop the presses. This is why I hate the phrase "live by the three, die by the three"

Bottom line, maybe not an asterisk perse, but if the Cheats lose in the honker dome in the regular season finale and do not win the ACC Tournament, kiss any chance for a one seed (and really any credit for the Duke win) goodbye and the committee will not give the cheats full credit for their win over Duke. Like it or not, but if Duke beats them twice this season with Williamson, its win is truly an asterisk.

 

[HuffyJB]

The issue is the notion that the two things are mutually exclusive. It is true that UNC played very well, and their two senior leaders had as good of games as they've had simultaneously. It is also true that Duke isn't as good with Zion on the floor, and that is exacerbated when they have not had any time to prepare for not having Zion on the floor. Both things can exist at the same time: UNC played well, and Duke had an obstacle that changed their dynamics substantially.

 

[BeerPoisoning]

^ Your arguing semantics. An asterisk, a qualifier, a parenthetical... I don 't give a damn what you call it. The win counts, but given the circumstances it should be regarded as one of the most inconsequential victories by either team in the rivalry's recent history.

And again, who gives a dump how it's denoted. As long as it is.

Inconsequential victory is the perfect terminology. I was just arguing the fact that you can’t note it off with a symbol.

Yeah, Z is like Shaq in this situation, so if someone say the Kings, Spurs, whoever would've beaten those Lakers during their three year run in the playoffs, without Shaq, wouldn't you put an asterisk beside their series win? I would've. The Pistons beat them with Shaq and Kobe, no asterisk required. I use it to denote extraordinary situations, which is what was required for UNC to win. Zion plays, Duke is 25-2 right now, period.

I’m not arguing that UNC’s win is insignificant. It doesn’t matter in terms of revelvance - We are not the same team without him. 100% agree. There is 0 hype for their win because of the circumstances. I know and agree with all of that. But you can’t just asterisk games because of injury. We don’t asterisk the ‘08 NFL season because the Patriots were heavy favorites and Brady tore his ACL or asterisk the Sixers beating the Bulls in the ‘12 playoffs because DRose’s injury. I can continue with examples, but you get the point.

 

[IPSYCHOSIS]

Asterriskwaa haha

 

[Shatterthesky22]

Inconsequential victory is the perfect terminology. I was just arguing the fact that you can’t note it off with a symbol.



I’m not arguing that UNC’s win is insignificant. It doesn’t matter in terms of revelvance - We are not the same team without him. 100% agree. There is 0 hype for their win because of the circumstances. I know and agree with all of that. But you can’t just asterisk games because of injury. We don’t asterisk the ‘08 NFL season because the Patriots were heavy favorites and Brady tore his ACL or asterisk the Sixers beating the Bulls in the ‘12 playoffs because DRose’s injury. I can continue with examples, but you get the point.

So you're just arguing semantics at this point, right? Whatever, we agree that UNC'S win doesn't mean anything at all because Mr. Williamson was out.

 

[dukesince91]

I usually don't mind Myron's articles but that one was asinine.

Silly article likely done to appease Cheat fans.

More likely trying to appease Nas Little.

 

[Ioliva]

Zion averages 22 a game without adding in the unc game and 10 boards a game as well. He’s the npoy and pushing for dpoy. You’re out of your dang mind if you think the outcome isn’t changed with him playing.

 

[BeerPoisoning]

So you're just arguing semantics at this point, right? Whatever, we agree that UNC'S win doesn't mean anything at all because Mr. Williamson was out.

Arguing that UNC can’t be discredited with the win and Maye’s performance also doesn’t deserve discredit. Z’s absence isn’t an excuse for the HORRIBLE defense we played.

We agree on the point that the game is invalid in terms of bragging rights, who’s better and thrill of victory / agony of defeat.

 

[Shatterthesky22]

Arguing that UNC can’t be discredited with the win and Maye’s performance also doesn’t deserve discredit. Z’s absence isn’t an excuse for the HORRIBLE defense we played.

We agree on the point that the game is invalid in terms of bragging rights, who’s better and thrill of victory / agony of defeat.

I agree it's not an excuse but, the fact of the matter is, Maye has proven time and time again that when he plays against anyone with any sort of athletic ability he simply cannot produce. His game was a monster fluke because with Zion there, he would've been absolutely slaughtered on defense and he would've been a non factor offensively. He doesn't deserve credit for something he just got stupidly lucky with. And if we're being totally honest, every UNC win for 20 straight years deserved an asterisk, and they got none, so those cheating SOB's get one for this game, if for no other reason than to somewhat get what they deserve.

 

[LouisiAaron]

No one but UNC fans take that win seriously. Yes they won. Congrats. Deep down they know it doesn't really mean anything because Zion got hurt

 

[BeerPoisoning]

I agree it's not an excuse but, the fact of the matter is, Maye has proven time and time again that when he plays against anyone with any sort of athletic ability he simply cannot produce. His game was a monster fluke because with Zion there, he would've been absolutely slaughtered on defense and he would've been a non factor offensively. He doesn't deserve credit for something he just got stupidly lucky with. And if we're being totally honest, every UNC win for 20 straight years deserved an asterisk, and they got none, so those cheating SOB's get one for this game, if for no other reason than to somewhat get what they deserve.

I wouldn’t say he can’t perform against athletes. I’d just say that he’s an unathletic, fundamentally sound crafty scorer. He isn’t going to be on a highlight reel but he makes bad defense pay the price. He’s great at playing Tim Duncan basketball - boring, fundamental scoring. That being said, Zion is a great paint protector and I think he’d lock Maye up. Zion didn’t play so we’ll have to wait a couple weeks before our opinions become facts about that.

WE AGREE ABOUT THE CHEATERS. Vacate the wins and rip some of those damn banners down in Chapel Hill!!!

 

[DukeDenver]

Gonzaga is the only team in the country to defeat a Healthy Duke Squad this season

Let’s not forget that they’ve been without one of their best players all season long.

 

[bullcity gamer]

^ valid point. What I was getting at is there is only one team in the country who can lay claim to defeat a healthy Blue Devils squad this season. Duke has shown when they are 100% healthy it is very difficult to beat them.

 

[dukedevilz]

Zion (Shaq) and RJ (Kobe) are comparable to the ‘02 Lakers. Shaq was finals MVP, more efficient, more rebounds. Kobe had the slight edge in PPG. It’s like the great debate: “Who is more important?” — The statistical nod goes to Shaq, most would say Shaq. But overall it’s a close race. They were own dominant in their own way and neither took a backseat to the other. They were a spectacular duo, just like Z and RJ.

Zion is Batman
RJ is Spiderman
Both great just different type of games.

I'm not dismissing RJ's talents, he's one of the best players in the country. But Zion is on another level. He's much, much more efficient than not just RJ, but literally every player in the country, and every player from this decade. Sports-refeerence.com has been dating player efficiency ratings since the 2010 season, and no one has EVER surpassed 37. Zion currently has a PER of 42.1. I mean, isn't it kind of telling when Zion has 29 more made 2-pointers, and yet RJ has attempted 62 more 2-pt shots? In addition to that, he's a better rebounder, and a better defender (you could argue that he's the best defender in college basketball).

Look at Zion's Player Efficiency Rating, and then look at the PER of the last 8 National Player of the Year award winners. Zion is head and shoulders above everyone. Also, the discrepancy between Zion and RJ is much, much larger than the discrepancy between Shaq and Kobe.

Zion Williamson, 42.1
Jalen Brunson, 26.1
Frank Mason, 25.5
Denzel Valentine, 29.7
Frank Kaminsky, 34.4
Doug McDermott, 32.8
Trey Burke, 28.7
Anthony Davis, 35.1
Jimmer Fredette, 30.9