Even when the NBA changes the O&D rule.. will we still be dealing with O&D issues?

[Buzzooka Joe]

It seems apparent the NBA is going to allow kids to jump straight to the pros in about 5 years.. but I’m seeing a lot of reclassifying now-a-days.. so even if/when the NBA allows kids to go pro after their senior year of HS, are we still going to be dealing with One & Done players?

It seems like kids will be wanting to reclassify even more when the NBA rule changes, because playing a year at DUKE, being on TV all the time, and playing against elite competition will be a lot better for their draft stock than playing their senior year of HS ball.

 

[LetsGoDuke301]

For the players like Frank Jackson, Tyus Jones and others in their tier, yes. But the Bagleys and Zions of the world will never step foot on a college basketball court. As they shouldn't.

 

[lyonhawk]

Not only will we be dealing with even more roster uncertainty (since we won't have 2-3 guys we KNOW are OAD), we also open the door to getting Shaun Livington'd. So I don't think this rule change is going to be all that great for Duke.

 

[BeerPoisoning]

It’s not going to be a problem. They’re well aware of that issue and they plan on enforcing a guideline to stop it, or letting the NCAA independently enforce it. Either the NBA will rule college freshman ineligible or the NCAA will say that if you decide to not declare out of high school, you must stay in college for two years. Either way it goes, same difference.

They aren’t going to eliminate the rule to have it still be a thing.

 

[nets on nets on nets]

All I know is that the NBA does not care at all about the state of college basketball, as harsh as that may sound for some.

I think if the NBA is gonna allow the elite high-schoolers to come into their league, than I don't know why they wouldn't also allow the top college freshman to come in after one year? Guys do get much better from end of senior year in HS to end of freshman year.
For those hoping this rule will be like the "baseball rule," it's not.

My prediction is we are still gonna see guys leave after one year. However, instead of the guys being a Zion/Bagley no doubt top pick, the freshman leaving after 1 year will be the Frank Jacksons/Duval's of the world.

 

[tp394]

Wouldn’t they make it so if you do choose to go to college you have to stay at least 2 years or something? Sort of like football?

 

[crazyduke3]

For the players like Frank Jackson, Tyus Jones and others in their tier, yes. But the Bagleys and Zions of the world will never step foot on a college basketball court. As they shouldn't.

Why shouldn’t they? If they want to, why not?

 

[BlueDaveil]

All I know is that the NBA does not care at all about the state of college basketball, as harsh as that may sound for some.

I think if the NBA is gonna allow the elite high-schoolers to come into their league, than I don't know why they wouldn't also allow the top college freshman to come in after one year? Guys do get much better from end of senior year in HS to end of freshman year.
For those hoping this rule will be like the "baseball rule," it's not.

My prediction is we are still gonna see guys leave after one year. However, instead of the guys being a Zion/Bagley no doubt top pick, the freshman leaving after 1 year will be the Frank Jacksons/Duval's of the world.

Yep. No one has given any indication that there will be any rule changes other than the age restriction, especially the NBA, who isn’t going to enact any rule that doesn’t directly benefit them (which weirdly the current one does for the most part). The “OAD” era isn’t going anywhere, if a kid comes to Duke and averages 20ppg, he’s gonna be gone the same as this year, sadly those may be fewer and further between as we won’t be seeing any Bagleys or Zion’s or RJs anymore, pretty sad.

 

[LetsGoDuke301]

Why shouldn’t they? If they want to, why not?

Obviously if they want to. Yeah. But if they had the option to make money right away and their talents gave them a guaranteed top pick in the draft, do you think they'd want to?

 

[Quest4Seven]

Duke's best run (1990-2004) was before the 1AD era, no? like alot of posters already pointed out, you'll still get the guys like Jackson who play themselves into being 1AD players but you wont be dealing with 3 obvious guys every year who you are certain you will only have one season. should help build more experienced teams with better chemistry

 

[pisgah101]

NCAA needs to step up

 

[Mac9192]

Like others have mentioned, when the new rule goes into action, some things will change from Duke, if we want to contend.
There will have to be more effort to develop the bench. The elite of the elite won’t be here.

 

[lyonhawk]

Just to be clear as well, the NCAA has no power whatsoever here. They can't tell a kid when they can go to the NBA or that he has to stay in college for two years.

 

[lyonhawk]

Wouldn’t they make it so if you do choose to go to college you have to stay at least 2 years or something? Sort of like football?

The football rule is an NFL rule, not NCAA. And it's that kids have to be 3 years removed from high school before they are eligible. No exceptions, no straight to the pros. It has more to do with the fact that 20 year old kids aren't ready physically for the NFL compared to basketball where even if they're not, they're not going to get killed by the players in the league.

 

[Buzzooka Joe]

For the players like Frank Jackson, Tyus Jones and others in their tier, yes. But the Bagleys and Zions of the world will never step foot on a college basketball court. As they shouldn't.

Bagley would have been a O&D with the rule change.. because he reclassified.. basically kids will choose to play a year in college instead of their senior year in high school.. we will still get the Zion’s & Bagley’s, we will just get them when they are a year younger.

 

[lyonhawk]

Bagley would have been a O&D with the rule change.. because he reclassified.. basically kids will choose to play a year in college instead of their senior year in high school.. we will still get the Zion’s & Bagley’s, we will just get them when they are a year younger.

Not quite. Current rule is 19 and a year removed from high school. Anyone who reclasses and is then OAD, would be eligible to skip their senior year and go straight to the draft under the new rule.

 

[pisgah101]

Just to be clear as well, the NCAA has no power whatsoever here. They can't tell a kid when they can go to the NBA or that he has to stay in college for two years.

Not true they could implement things. Would it totally detour? No but to say they have no power is silly

 

[LastWaltz]

Bagley would have been a O&D with the rule change.. because he reclassified.. basically kids will choose to play a year in college instead of their senior year in high school.. we will still get the Zion’s & Bagley’s, we will just get them when they are a year younger.

The kid still has to graduate high school and some high schools do not even allow that.

Think the rule change really benefits the UVA’s, Michigan, etc of the world who seem to have a very strong system in place, identify that next layer recruit and develop the hell out of them. I suspect, unless the strategy changes, teams like Duke, UK and Kansas will go through a few odd years while the roster gets reconstructed. There will be far fewer game changers to fill immediate areas of need

 

[jimlsumner]

Not true they could implement things. Would it totally detour? No but to say they have no power is silly

The NBA and the NBA Player's Association negotiate this as part of their Collective Bargaining Agreement. The NCAA cannot restrict a player's right to pursue their livelihood. That has been the legal precedent since the Spencer Haywood case a half-century ago.

 

[pisgah101]

The NBA and the NBA Player's Association negotiate this as part of their Collective Bargaining Agreement. The NCAA cannot restrict a player's right to pursue their livelihood. That has been the legal precedent since the Spencer Haywood case a half-century ago.

I didnt say they could but they can add incentive and other things

 

[jimlsumner]

I didnt say they could but they can add incentive and other things

What kind of incentive could the NCAA add? If there were an NCAA-centric solution, don't you think it would have been implemented by now?

The NCAA has no real input in this. It's an NBA thing.

 

[topps coach]

Just to be clear as well, the NCAA has no power whatsoever here. They can't tell a kid when they can go to the NBA or that he has to stay in college for two years.

The baseball or football rule is at the sole discretion of the NBA and would be part of the collective bargaining agreement

 

[pisgah101]

What kind of incentive could the NCAA add? If there were an NCAA-centric solution, don't you think it would have been implemented by now?

The NCAA has no real input in this. It's an NBA thing.

No I don’t think they would have. K himself talked about how crappy the ncaa does to these guys. Let’s start by letting them make money off of their likeness and name. 2nd implement the 2 or 3 yr rule and if they leave before make them pay back the scholarship

 

[dukebluesTX]

Duke's best run (1990-2004) was before the 1AD era, no? like alot of posters already pointed out, you'll still get the guys like Jackson who play themselves into being 1AD players but you wont be dealing with 3 obvious guys every year who you are certain you will only have one season. should help build more experienced teams with better chemistry

I would argue in a way, KNOWING a player is OAD is beneficial because you know he will be gone and you can recruit accordingly. I'd rather see players have to stay 2 or 3 years if they come to college.

 

[timo0402]

No I don’t K himself talked about how crappy the ncaa does. Let them make money off their likeness and name first of all 2nd implement the 2 or 3 yr rule and if broken make them pay back the scholarship

Huh?

 

[pisgah101]

Huh?

Hahaha I just read it and fixed it. Today’s been a rough/long day. I was actually confused on what I put

 

[timo0402]

Hahaha I just read it and fixed it. Today’s been a rough/long day. I was actually confused on what I put

All good

 

[BeerPoisoning]

The NBA and NCAA are ultimately businesses. That means there’s 2 important factors. Profit and imagine.

Profit:
OAD rule is the best thing that has happened to the NCAA’s pocket. The NBA has noticed and wants that money. “G” (Gatorade) league is the tip of the iceberg. More talent = TV time = more endorsements = more $. It’s all about the cheddar folks.

Image / Reputation:
The NCAA says it’s bad because these kids are “StUdEnT aThLeTeS.” They do not give 2 dumps if ‘X’ player graduates, they say this because they have to. — In retrospect, the NBA says they feel bad for college bball’s landscape and broke kids that can’t help their families financially. Truthfully, they also don’t give 2 dumps about the NCAA or a broke 18 year old.

If you aren’t picking up what I’m putting down from a business standpoint, let me simplify it...

The NBA wants to also own “college” basketball. That’s getting the cake, but they also want to eat the cake which leads me to the original topic/concern: Reclassifying players being OADs will not be a part of college basketball because the NBA will delete the age limit and instead say high school graduates.

NCAA is getting robbed with a wink and a pat on the back. They are shaking in their boots because no player of substantial talent (the NCAA’s money makers!) is going to choose doing homework over money. Their backs are against the wall because if a subpar talent that chooses college becomes elite, he won’t be immediately worth anything because that “fame” will have to develop. It’ll likely be late-season by time the world takes big notice. The next year he’ll be worth big $ to the NCAA and go to the G-League / NBA instead. Leaving the NCAA’s pockets bare. NCAA won’t stand for that..... They will implement some kind of rule, I just have no idea what. Possibly raising the 1 year minimum on the LOI to 2 years?

Just my 2 cents.... thoughts?

 

[BeerPoisoning]

No I don’t think they would have. K himself talked about how crappy the ncaa does to these guys. Let’s start by letting them make money off of their likeness and name. 2nd implement the 2 or 3 yr rule and if they leave before make them pay back the scholarship

Paying back a scholarship is a slap on the wrist. No player is going to think “Well I’m not going to go to the NBA to make ‘X’ amount of millions because I have to re-pay 40 thousand.” — Paying athletes also fixes nothing... I can’t imagine an annual pay over 25 grand for the most elite. That’s nothing in comparison to what Nike/Adidas are likely paying.

 

[pisgah101]

Paying back a scholarship is a slap on the wrist. No player is going to think “Well I’m not going to go to the NBA to make ‘X’ amount of millions because I have to re-pay 40 thousand.” — Paying athletes also fixes nothing... I can’t imagine an annual pay over 25 grand for the most elite. That’s nothing in comparison to what Nike/Adidas are likely paying.

I agree it is to the first round guarantees but to a fringe guy maybe not

 

[topps coach]

The NBA and NCAA are ultimately businesses. That means there’s 2 important factors. Profit and imagine.

Profit:
OAD rule is the best thing that has happened to the NCAA’s pocket. The NBA has noticed and wants that money. “G” (Gatorade) league is the tip of the iceberg. More talent = TV time = more endorsements = more $. It’s all about the cheddar folks.

Image / Reputation:
The NCAA says it’s bad because these kids are “StUdEnT aThLeTeS.” They do not give 2 dumps if ‘X’ player graduates, they say this because they have to. — In retrospect, the NBA says they feel bad for college bball’s landscape and broke kids that can’t help their families financially. Truthfully, they also don’t give 2 dumps about the NCAA or a broke 18 year old.

If you aren’t picking up what I’m putting down from a business standpoint, let me simplify it...

The NBA wants to also own “college” basketball. That’s getting the cake, but they also want to eat the cake which leads me to the original topic/concern: Reclassifying players being OADs will not be a part of college basketball because the NBA will delete the age limit and instead say high school graduates.

NCAA is getting robbed with a wink and a pat on the back. They are shaking in their boots because no player of substantial talent (the NCAA’s money makers!) is going to choose doing homework over money. Their backs are against the wall because if a subpar talent that chooses college becomes elite, he won’t be immediately worth anything because that “fame” will have to develop. It’ll likely be late-season by time the world takes big notice. The next year he’ll be worth big $ to the NCAA and go to the G-League / NBA instead. Leaving the NCAA’s pockets bare. NCAA won’t stand for that..... They will implement some kind of rule, I just have no idea what. Possibly raising the 1 year minimum on the LOI to 2 years?

Just my 2 cents.... thoughts?

 

[topps coach]

The OAD is a collectively bargained agreement between the NBA and the Players Association and I have never understood why the rank and file members would not vote for something similar to the baseball rule.If I were a fringe player I would certainly want the talent pool trying to take my job to be limited

 

[BeerPoisoning]

I agree it is to the first round guarantees but to a fringe guy maybe not

For them to say a player has to re-pay a scholarship... Jeez, I don’t know. I’m not against the idea but legally near impossible for the NCAA to retroactively negate a contract. As far as salary goes, 25K would be the range for the big time players like Zion. I think even an important piece of our puzzle like Tre Jones who was projected late first / early second round would only get around 10K. It’s just not substantial enough to matter. I don’t think the money could go higher, if they’re paying one sport, they have to pay them all.

 

[sheyduke]

The NBA is trying to make it work with the NCAA but the truth is like stated it’s about money.

There are gonna be lottery pics that come straight out of high school that are gonna be busy and lottery pics that come one year removed from college that will either be bust our out the league after their rookie contract.

The best change so far was if a kid gets invited to the NBA camp and doesn’t hear what he wants he is eligible to return back to school. The only real issue here is that if chosen in the second round and guaranteed a league minimum rookie contract that doesn’t mean a two way contract it means your making NBA money and developing for the team as they spin it hoping your an asset down the road.

Your still gonna get the kids like Tre, Marcus Edwards who know they can be boarder line first rounders to second round but choose to return to school.

 

[sheyduke]

For them to say a player has to re-pay a scholarship... Jeez, I don’t know. I’m not against the idea but legally near impossible for the NCAA to retroactively negate a contract. As far as salary goes, 25K would be the range for the big time players like Zion. I think even an important piece of our puzzle like Tre Jones who was projected late first / early second round would only get around 10K. It’s just not substantial enough to matter. I don’t think the money could go higher, if they’re paying one sport, they have to pay them all.

Good post. To go along with it what if some of the school sports aren’t making the revenue as say basketball and football? Your basically using up scholarship money that can go towards less fortunate kids who will actually be around four years. Scholarship aren’t just given for sports but academics too so look at the kids it would effect at private colleges like Duke

 

[pisgah101]

For them to say a player has to re-pay a scholarship... Jeez, I don’t know. I’m not against the idea but legally near impossible for the NCAA to retroactively negate a contract. As far as salary goes, 25K would be the range for the big time players like Zion. I think even an important piece of our puzzle like Tre Jones who was projected late first / early second round would only get around 10K. It’s just not substantial enough to matter. I don’t think the money could go higher, if they’re paying one sport, they have to pay them all.

If you put it in the scholarship offer you could. And you let them make money off of there own image and name that way that 25k or 10k wouldn’t matter. Zion would of made millions this year

 

[sheyduke]

If you put it in the scholarship offer you could. And you let them make money off of there own image and name that way that 25k or 10k wouldn’t matter. Zion would of made millions this year

Yes but you’d have to also have them understand that why they are making their millions it’s become a job so still asking them to be student athletes and a public image for six months is either gonna cause their school work or practice to suffer.
I also agree that why there are true college bb fans that don’t watch the nba such as myself this will cause the more lesser players to think about the money effect. Meaning,” hey if I’m making ten thousand off my name in college I’ll make a killing if I go to the league!”

 

[BeerPoisoning]

Good post. To go along with it what if some of the school sports aren’t making the revenue as say basketball and football? Your basically using up scholarship money that can go towards less fortunate kids who will actually be around four years. Scholarship aren’t just given for sports but academics too so look at the kids it would effect at private colleges like Duke

If the NCAA were to take this path, there would have to be the same $ allocated to each sport for both genders. They can’t say Duke basketball has been pretty successful so they get 200K to hand out. Football hasn’t been as successful, so football gets 100K. Then look at Clemson and flip the numbers. That creates unfair advantage because now Duke basketball / Clemson football has more money to offer for success. Gender wise, it’s fair to say that women’s basketball doesn’t hold a candle to the popularity of men’s. But what about UConn??? Their women’s basketball is on TV all the time. They deserve money. But if the NCAA agrees to pay UConn women’s hoops, now all D1 women’s bball has to be paid.

Salary wise there has to be a cap. Otherwise this just turns into 10 schools acting as the Yankees, while everyone else has virtually nothing. This would take the talent gap to new heights.

Everything has to be equal and there has to be salary caps for that to happen, IMO.

 

[BeerPoisoning]

If you put it in the scholarship offer you could. And you let them make money off of there own image and name that way that 25k or 10k wouldn’t matter. Zion would of made millions this year

It’s pretty obvious that Zion was worth more than any player in college basketball this year, so let’s think about this...

How do they prove his worth? They can’t just pick an amount at the end of the season. This goes for any player. That opens the door to extreme controvery and lawsuits. There’s contracts in professional sports to avoid that.

If that theory worked then who is paying? The school or the NCAA? If the school pays, now the floodgates of paying recruits turns into a F’ing zoo. Duke says hey come play for us, you’ll get $2 million minimum. 95% of D1 schools don’t even pay their coaches that amount. Talent gap blast off. The NCAA sure as heck ain’t gonna just hand out millions to everyone.

 

[sheyduke]

It’s pretty obvious that Zion was worth more than any player in college basketball this year, so let’s think about this...

How do they prove his worth? They can’t just pick an amount at the end of the season. This goes for any player. That opens the door to extreme controvery and lawsuits. There’s contracts in professional sports to avoid that.

If that theory worked then who is paying? The school or the NCAA? If the school pays, now the floodgates of paying recruits turns into a F’ing zoo. Duke says hey come play for us, you’ll get $2 million minimum. 95% of D1 schools don’t even pay their coaches that amount. Talent gap blast off. The NCAA sure as heck ain’t gonna just hand out millions to everyone.

Well another problem with “ paying athletes” is they are no longer student athletes.

Think of it like a 16 year old working at a supermarket. He has a boss, pays taxes and has a schedule. Sure he has minimum hours he can only work because of school and being part time but it’s still a job.

Once you enter into a binding contract and begin paying players, what do you dock them when they don’t play? What holds them out of a game? Because it’s a contract do you not pay them when they have to sit out because of bad grades or not living up to team or university rules? I’ve its what a player is worth do you see Reddish getting the same pay as Barrett and Zion? Do you not pay Goldwire or say Big V because they basically ride the pine or do you increase their pay yearly or off of incentives?