Expand to 16 teams & get rid of the byes - this makes no sense.

will110

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Why was this is a necessity?

Merit used to count for something in our society.
Merit: (noun) "the quality of being particularly good or worthy, especially so as to deserve praise or reward."

Merit still counts for something. Outside of Clemson, a team that never deserves anything good and merits nothing, the 11 teams that made the CFP are good teams that deserve to be where they are. That's the definition of merit.
 

18IsTheMan

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Merit: (noun) "the quality of being particularly good or worthy, especially so as to deserve praise or reward."

Merit still counts for something. Outside of Clemson, a team that never deserves anything good and merits nothing, the 11 teams that made the CFP are good teams that deserve to be where they are. That's the definition of merit.

You actually think ASU ended up as a 4-seed based on merit?
 

will110

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"We don't behead people any longer so we should also open the door for more teams to play for the title" isn't a strong argument.
Neither is "we used to award multiple national championships based on the results of different polls so we shouldn't have a playoff."
 

will110

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You actually think ASU ended up as a 4-seed based on merit?
Yes. The rules stipulate the top 4 seeds would be the top 4 conference champions. You can argue whether or not that's a reasonable rule, but ASU merited inclusion and that ranking based on the rules.

Again, that's what the word merit - which you used - means.
 

18IsTheMan

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Neither is "we used to award multiple national championships based on the results of different polls so we shouldn't have a playoff."

Overhauling the entire system with disastrous results on the basis of, statistically speaking, a handful of seasons in the history of college football is ludicrous.
 

Yard_Pimps

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Why was this is a necessity?

Merit used to count for something in our society.
Because sports need parity. If the same teams win all the time people grow tired. Hence the push for the playoff in the first place and expansion. The SEC and Big were the conferences that pushed for the automatic qualifiers. It’s still merit based even if you don’t want to admit it. Arizona state won their conference. That is merit. With the conference being assumed to be so far apart (that’s not always true and blown out of proportion) I think it’s vital to have atleast every conference winner. Florida state can’t force the rest of the acc to get better. So why should the rest of the teams in that conference be punished.
 
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18IsTheMan

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Yes. The rules stipulate the top 4 seeds would be the top 4 conference champions. You can argue whether or not that's a reasonable rule, but ASU merited inclusion and that ranking based on the rules.

Again, that's what the word merit - which you used - means.

So if a law was passed that someone could set up shop in your house for 24 hours and have a legal claim to it, and then that happened while you were on vacation, you'd say "well, shucks, he deserves it based on merit."
 
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Yard_Pimps

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"We don't behead people any longer so we should also open the door for more teams to play for the title" isn't a strong argument.
You saw it before I changed to. That was a stupid argument I will admit. Re read my post.
 

Yard_Pimps

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Merit: (noun) "the quality of being particularly good or worthy, especially so as to deserve praise or reward."

Merit still counts for something. Outside of Clemson, a team that never deserves anything good and merits nothing, the 11 teams that made the CFP are good teams that deserve to be where they are. That's the definition of merit.
Clemson won the acc that is also merit whether we want to acknowledge it or not.
 

Yard_Pimps

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Overhauling the entire system with disastrous results on the basis of, statistically speaking, a handful of seasons in the history of college football is ludicrous.
This is hands down better than the bcs and anyone who says other wise is dumbfounding.
 
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will110

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Overhauling the entire system with disastrous results on the basis of, statistically speaking, a handful of seasons in the history of college football is ludicrous.
The system was ludicrous to start with.

Since 1950, there have been 16 seasons where two or more teams were named national champions by major publications, with each of those teams recognized as a "consensus national champion" by the NCAA.

Ultimately I'd just disagree with your characterization of the current system as disastrous.
 

Piscis

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I think that's a big reason we see as much controversy as we do. The revolving definition of what we are served. To me a champion of the 2024 season would be the winner of a tournament with all the (conference) champions. Anything else is an invitational playoff naming the winner National Champion. With that, now you've got to decide what makes a good enough season to get an invite to the invitational. Clearly SOS has taken a back seat in this committee. Fans and coaches across the country have noticed this omission so this is a real concern. Also evidently taking a back seat is how one is playing now. We may be the hottest team in America with numerous quality wins in the second half of the season so that doesn't appear to be a consideration either. Both of those things they have told us in the past mattered yet somehow they didn't. Sad part is at this point the committee can come out tomorrow and tell us exactly what a team needs to do next year to be included in the playoff and we really wont know if they would honor that because they have moved the goal posts after we think we know what they want... intentionally or not. We need stability in the system and we need to know what we are up against from the onset of a season and we dont have either. We are winging it and making it up as we go along. It cant change soon enough imo.
The CFP has always been the ESPN/Disney College Football Post Season Invitational Tournament. Any competition where the participants are selected by a committee or poll can't really be considered a true championship. Until the playoff is played by nothing but conference champions in a single elimination format, the national championship will continue to be mythical.

While the second half of the season was great, I still have trouble with the "hottest team in America" label. I'm not sure who our "quality wins" were against. Missouri is probably the best win in the second half of the season. Clemson was, as always, vastly overrated when we played them. Oklahoma is a 6-6 team, not exactly the Oklahoma of old. A&M limped to an 8-4 record with only one win over a ranked team (Missouri at #19).
 

Piscis

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The system was ludicrous to start with.

Since 1950, there have been 16 seasons where two or more teams were named national champions by major publications, with each of those teams recognized as a "consensus national champion" by the NCAA.

Ultimately I'd just disagree with your characterization of the current system as disastrous.
The NCAA has never had a national champion in D1 (FBS) football. They have champions in every other collegiate sport but not the top level of football.
 

will110

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Yard_Pimps

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Polls are flawed if you want to anoint the true champion. It’s the winners of each conference in a head to head playoff as others have stated. No wildcards. You must win your championship to be a true national champion. Do it off record alone. Make most if not all of the games be inside the conference.
 
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Uscg1984

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Saying the old college football systems meant "best college football team" is a stretch. Look at how many years in the poll era had multiple champions. Even in the BCS era you had issues. Look at 2004 or 2009, where 5 teams finished undefeated. Or last year, where FSU was left out of the 4 team playoff as an undefeated conference champion.
I'm not saying everybody agreed on who the best team was. But that's what the title meant, and it was based on a season-long body of work. The winner of an expanded playoff is just that: The playoff winner. Some years, it may actually be the best team (or at least somebody who had a reasonable argument), but sooner or later, it will be a 3-loss (or more) team who winds up there through a series of upsets by them or their opponents. Like the 2011 Giants, while that team will be crowned "champion," nobody will delude themselves into thinking they were best team.

The issue of multiple champions from the poll era was almost completely solved by the 4-team playoff. There was some controversy last year when FSU was left out, but that matter was conclusively settled when the offended team lost their bowl by 60 points.
 
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will110

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I'm not saying everybody agreed on who the best team was. But that's what the title meant, and it was based on a season-long body of work. The winner of an expanded playoff is just that: The playoff winner. Some years, it may actually be the best team (or at least somebody who had a reasonable argument), but sooner or later, it will be a 3-loss (or more) team who winds up there through a series of upsets by them or their opponents. Like the 2011 Giants, while that team will be crowned "champion," nobody will delude themselves into thinking they were best team.

The issue of multiple champions from the poll era was almost completely solved by the 4-team playoff. There was some controversy last year when FSU was left out, but that matter was conclusively settled when the offended team lost their bowl by 60 points.
And the 4 team playoff relegated every team not in contention (which for more than half of college football was in week one) to irrelevance. It solved a problem by creating a bigger problem, which the expanded playoff rectifies.

I'm just glad that we get to see the best teams on the field against each other, as opposed to the poll era when the best teams rarely played head-to-head.
 
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Uscg1984

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I'm just glad that we get to see the best teams on the field against each other, as opposed to the poll era when the best teams rarely played head-to-head.
FWIW, I advocated for a "Bowl Plus One" system, but nobody at ESPN listened to me.
 

Uscg1984

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As in, play the bowls, then choose the best two after that to play the championship?
Sure. Most years there weren't more than 2 teams with a legitimate claim after all the bowls are played. You're never going to end all controversy, but that system would have preserved the traditional bowl tie-ins and given every candidate one additional datapoint by playing a quality opponent. It would have also maintained the intense importance on the regular season.
 
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Blues man

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The CFP has always been the ESPN/Disney College Football Post Season Invitational Tournament. Any competition where the participants are selected by a committee or poll can't really be considered a true championship. Until the playoff is played by nothing but conference champions in a single elimination format, the national championship will continue to be mythical.

While the second half of the season was great, I still have trouble with the "hottest team in America" label. I'm not sure who our "quality wins" were against. Missouri is probably the best win in the second half of the season. Clemson was, as always, vastly overrated when we played them. Oklahoma is a 6-6 team, not exactly the Oklahoma of old. A&M limped to an 8-4 record with only one win over a ranked team (Missouri at #19).
Texas A&M was certainly a quality win along with Clemson and Mizzou. I dont like clemson as much as anyone here but most people would consider that a quality win regardless. If you look at A&M, yeah they fell off the rankings at the end, but they really only had one bad loss and that was two weeks ago against Auburn. Otherwise, they really had a pretty good season. Yes they were a quality win for us and their losses to ND, Texas and us puts us in pretty good company.... Auburn aside.
Not many teams can say they finished as strong as we did. The committee members are the ones that used to say that mattered. They are the ones that decided well maybe not so much. Probably a good thing for them they continued to drop us down the rankings and off the bubble at the end... so they didn't have to explain themselves.
 
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atl-cock

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Yes. The rules stipulate the top 4 seeds would be the top 4 conference champions. You can argue whether or not that's a reasonable rule, but ASU merited inclusion and that ranking based on the rules.

Again, that's what the word merit - which you used - means.
And this is an example of a rule which may be adjusted in future years.

IMO, playoff expansion is a good idea. Again, every other collegiate division has had playoffs for years.

Do not confuse the seeding rules and who gets invited to dance with the concept itself. Yes, those rules do need adjusting.
 
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