Fayette County Public Schools in full Woke Mode

JumperJack

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I agreed with the premise of the thread I guess but then I read the actual link and have no clue WTF anyone is arguing about. That seemed like the most benign standard thing I’ve read.
I agree to a point. It’s pretty benign, until you consider that it’s all a bunch of meaningless woke-speak. Long on buzzwords, short on meat and potatoes. The taxpayer should expect more.

The bigger problem is that within these buzzwords are the implicit permissions that they invoke. Identity politics, in short. If anybody can point to a big urban district anywhere in the world that embraced these concepts and thus improved outcomes for kids at the margins, please share it.
 
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JumperJack

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Semantics. You don't think that some kids need help with resources in order to have the same educational experience as others? I'll be sure to let our Special Ed. and ESL teachers know that they're out of a job. No need for small group settings, individualized learning, etc. Just put everyone in the same room and they'll get the same education. That's equity. Equality would be to just sit those kids in their homerooms and everyone gets the same instruction.

I'll let our inner-city school know that they don't need to stay open to help kids past the rest of the district's hours or that they should feed the kids before they go home. Equality would be to send those kids home at the usual time and hope that they have the same after school experience as everyone else in the district.
I don’t think what you’re saying is what the leftists want equity to mean. They want enforced equality of outcomes, even (and especially) if it means lowering standards. NYC had this issue recently. I have not read what they’re doing now but I do know that equity is not equality.
 
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I don’t consider it benign. I am 100 percent positive that this endless litany of meaningless but well-intentioned fluff cost the tax payers hundreds of thousands of dollars.

I’ve seen scores of these mission statements, pledges, strategic plans, rolled out and you wouid not believe the man hours those 6 figure salaried administrators can rack up to produce something that is ummmm nothing.

And I assure you that they have sore shoulders from patting themselves on the back, while saying “We’re making a difference here.” or “This represents a real vision for the future.” blah blah blah. A breath-taking waste of resources? Absolutely. Benign? Not a chance.

I’m reminded of when Stu Silberman took over and changed the name of Central Office to IAKSS (it’s about kids support services) All letterheads, signs web sites and on and on had to be changed, at great expense. The payoff? Zilch. Unless you consider a record number of FCPS schools on probation with the KDE, 18 months into his tenure, progress.

Public schools administrative overhead is basically 3 card monte.

Remember this the next time the school board wants to raise your property taxes.
 
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mrhotdice

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That’s their 5-7 year plan they sent to parents today. They said it took them 15 months to gather info and create. Give it a quick two minute scan. You can see where their minds are. Not much content outside of virtue signaling.
I saw or read nothing about how parents want their kids taught. Sure glad my daughter gets a mountain education which includes how to read, do complex math, learn the constitution, economics, and how to shot and hit what she aims at.
 

Beatle Bum

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You're against every student having an equal education or having equal access to resources? That's a strange hill.
Wow. By now you would think people would stop pretending there is no difference between equality and equity in today’s parlance. Pushing equal opportunity is far different than demanding equal outcome.
 

Beatle Bum

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Semantics. You don't think that some kids need help with resources in order to have the same educational experience as others? I'll be sure to let our Special Ed. and ESL teachers know that they're out of a job. No need for small group settings, individualized learning, etc. Just put everyone in the same room and they'll get the same education. That's equity. Equality would be to just sit those kids in their homerooms and everyone gets the same instruction.

I'll let our inner-city school know that they don't need to stay open to help kids past the rest of the district's hours or that they should feed the kids before they go home. Equality would be to send those kids home at the usual time and hope that they have the same after school experience as everyone else in the district.
The strawman approach to avoiding the actual issue.
 
Aug 14, 2001
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Equal opportunity is really the only thing that society (including public education) can provide. What else is there to do? Money hasn't solved the probem. Affirmative Action hasn't solved the problem. White guilt hasn't solved the problem. So, what do you all suggest? The poorest 20 percent of Americans are wealthy by world standards, government mandated opportunities are there for the taking if you're a minority candidate. The US (and public education) have literally bent over backwards to help close the gap. And with all of that, it has barely made a dent.

Come on folks, I want to hear your ideas.
 
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Beatle Bum

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That is your definition. And it is inaccurate. Nothing is being taken away from "the haves". You clearly have no idea what you're going on about, but you feel like you just have to say something. Take off your political glasses for a minute and think a little on your own. I gave you two exact examples of equity programs.

I'm not sure why I bother. People like you are going to be so set in your ways that nothing will ever satisfy.

Anyway, here's a cartoon.

The simplistic love this meme. Sure, no one has a problem with letting the short kid see over the fence, but when an arbitrary ratio of outcome is decided in advance, we get companies saying we need to promote so many of this kind of person regardless of whether they are the best for the job. In education, we see quotas direct who achieves over offering an equal playing field. This DOES NOT mean that different teaching strategies are not employed to exact the best performance. Rather, it means that performance is not the sole measure of success in a “equity” driven model.

Here is the real world absurd outcome. Two boys come from middle class families from the same part of town from families who have two working parents and very similar value systems. They both play sports and go to the same high school. They are very close friends, probably due to their similar backgrounds. They take the same classes in high school. One out performs the other in grades and on entrance exams to college, but both are smart kids who most state colleges would recruit in a heartbeat. In college, they are roommates. The one gets a full ride and academic assistance in the form of technology and advising. The other, the one who slightly academically outperformed, gets a modest stipend. When the full-ride kid finds out his friend did not get the same offer he got, he is surprised and upset for his friend, because he sees it as unfair. Two great kids. Nothing really separates them, but the school sees them as different based upon on immutable characteristic. While the full-ride young man comes from a family who can afford college as well as the other, the school sees a statistic they will not lose through attrition. Their PR machine, driven by social equity principles drive their approach to people, rather than a calculus that does not consider immutable irrelevant characteristics. In the 1950s, this scenario is called racism. Today, it is accepted as equity inclusion. But, it is a virtue signaling feel good fiction that some here like.
 
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In my experience, the people that are most concerned about equity are those that have a tangible interest in the "equity business", and that includes the vast majority of public education policy makers. Studies, grants, seminars, highly paid consultants etc. Equity is a cash cow, and the best thing is, it doesn't matter if you get results or not because all one has to do is roll out the underfunded excuse. (how ironic) Wealth "guilt" will ALWAYS keep those coffers full.
 
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If you REALLY want to fix it, there IS a way, but nobody would go for it. Round up all the kids that have ****** parents, make them wards of the state, and house them in publically funded boarding schools, staffed by volunteer teachers, health care professionals, and tutors.


Schools will NEVER be able to solve this problem. No matter HOW much money they throw at it (which is their one and only strategy, and we see how that has worked)
 

Beatle Bum

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Not going to lie, when I immigrated to the states as a 6 year old I didn’t speak a lick of English and it was rather anxiety inducing at first. My teacher had a whole day where my mom came in and we did a whole day about the country I was from and our language, etc. it was pretty awesome and hopefully the white kids got something out of it too. I got picked on a little less after that as well which was cool
That is a great story. I am honestly missing the relevance, however.
 

Beatle Bum

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There’s nothing wrong with a kid having social intelligence/street smarts/common sense whatever you want to call it. We’ve all met the non-socialized homeschool kids that are weird as hell and probably unable to get laid until they’re 30. Nobody wants a society of those people. And at one point I was surrounded by Asian/Indian people for a couple years in my education and they were generally awkward and terrible. I don’t know if it was a cultural thing or if they just weren’t taught social skills in school. There’s nothing wrong with a good, well BALANCED education
The “non-socialized” homeschooler myth. Wow! This myth pushed by school teacher unions has been thoroughly debunked. In fact, some research has shown homeschoolers are more socially well-adjusted because their day does not include as much babysitting. They get their studies accomplished in less time and have educational experiences that are more pragmatic. Homeschoolers get a well balanced education.
 
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You're against every student having an equal education or having equal access to resources? That's a strange hill.

Equity - in terms of how the mouth breathers who do DEI work think about it - means that you slice the population up by race, gender and sexuality and then look at financial and educational results by those demographics. In their opinion it should all come out equal. If it doesn't, then we should direct resources to the groups that aren't doing well so that it does come out equal. But even if it never happens there will be a lot of money that these people can make, which increases their equity.
 

Ron Mehico

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That is a great story. I am honestly missing the relevance, however.

Some were saying they only want math and science and English taught, not diversity and other things. I was just relaying a personal anecdote of a full day a 1st grade teacher took for basically diversity training. I’m sure no one posting here had a big issue with my story, just an example to show that with a healthy balance of different things, including some social stuff is probably pretty good for a well rounded education. Nothing earth shattering.
 
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Ron Mehico

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The “non-socialized” homeschooler myth. Wow! This myth pushed by school teacher unions has been thoroughly debunked. In fact, some research has shown homeschoolers are more socially well-adjusted because their day does not include as much babysitting. They get their studies accomplished in less time and have educational experiences that are more pragmatic. Homeschoolers get a well balanced education.

Yup that’s me, the huge pro public schools and unions guy! Anybody that has read my posts will tell you that 😂
 
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Some were saying they only want math and science and English taught, not diversity and other things. I was just relaying a personal anecdote of a full day a 1st grade teacher took for basically diversity training. I’m sure no one posting here had a big issue with my story, just an example to show that with a healthy balance of different things, including some social stuff is probably pretty good for a well rounded education. Nothing earth shattering.
I'm all for teaching about slavery, civil rights, etc being taught. I think most are. I'm also for cross-cultural teachings. What I'm not for - and what people are pushing back on - are schools teaching kids that America is a white supremacist nation and all structures are based on that and should be dismantled. F them for that. They know what they are doing. And this DEI yay raw raw is the cousin of all that. How about teach unity for a change?
 
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Beatle Bum

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Some were saying they only want math and science and English taught, not diversity and other things. I was just relaying a personal anecdote of a full day a 1st grade teacher took for basically diversity training. I’m sure no one posting here had a big issue with my story, just an example to show that with a healthy balance of different things, including some social stuff is probably pretty good for a well rounded education. Nothing earth shattering.
There is a difference in “teaching diversity” and letting the kids in the class teach others about their experiences.
 

Ron Mehico

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I'm all for teaching about slavery, civil rights, etc being taught. I think most are. I'm also for cross-cultural teachings. What I'm not for - and what people are pushing back on - are schools teaching kids that America is a white supremacist nation and all structures are based on that and should be dismantled. F them for that. They know what they are doing. And this DEI yay raw raw is the cousin of all that. How about teach unity for a change?

Hell of a leap from the OP but alrighty
 

ukcatz12

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teaching kids that America is a white supremacist nation and all structures are based on that and should be dismantled.
But a lot of them are and that should probably be taught. Neighborhood lines in Chicago are still drawn from redlining that existed up until the '80s. The Interstates were designed to cut through minority neighborhoods and sometimes followed the old boundary lines that kept white and black neighborhoods separate.

And it should be noted that things like this are not always intentional. Something can be racially biased but not be outright maliciously racist. A good example of that would be the history of how photography and color film often neglected darker skin tones when being developed.
 

SDC888

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They aren't teaching kids how to think, but what to think; namely a bunk sociological philosophy.

It's incredible really that this idiocy was allowed to fester to this point.

Hell of a leap from the OP but alrighty

It's true though.

I'm an immigrant too; what's happening isn't just run of the mill "they took R jobZ!" reactionary conservative fears. Indeed, maybe it's "only" first/second generation Americans that can really see the scope of things, particularly Chinese Americans... the, "well, they just want to burn books because they are angry and need to get out more, those backwardz bigots!" retort is completely Polititard - completely myopic and obtuse to what's actually occurring.

If you allow your children to be taught this stakeholder D.I.E nonsense you are doing a profound disservice to them, especially if they are BIPOC or whatever the preferred nomenclature is.
 
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Pickle_Rick

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Civically engaged simply means having a knowledge of the constitution and how the government works. That's not worthwhile? Keep in mind our state requires students pass a civics test to graduate so this is required.

Culturally competent also typically means learning about other cultures. That is basically included in every world history class worth its weight. Again, what'sth wrong with that?
what's wrong with that is the left uses that strawman to teach that Western civilization is nothing but white supremacy, and America is founded on that principle. They then morph into grooming kids into being "gender fluid" and even homosexual. Don't bother trying to deny it. Just watch Libs of Tik Tok, and see them bragging about it.

I do not trust the school administration and too many teachers have shown that they have their own interests at heart, and not our children. They have time after time proven themselves to be lying and disingenuous.
 
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History isn't taught anymore. It is opined and editorialized about. Like the small pox blanket myth.

Germ theory didn't even exist when that supposedly took place.
You mean the colonists giving Native Americans small pox blankets? It being a myth is certainly up for debate. BAsically stating it's a fact that it is a mythe is disingenuous and ignores much academic research into the topic. Is it possible it is a myth? Yes. Is it possible that it did in fact happen? Yes. While some day it didn't happen, other say it did happen, and the frequency of it is also up for debate. As you will see in a few links below, there are ones saying it was a myth and others that aren't.


However, germ/biological warfare existed long before the 1600s though. The heavily-reference Wikipedia page for the history of biological warfare has numerous examples that indicate that.
 

JumperJack

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Some were saying they only want math and science and English taught, not diversity and other things. I was just relaying a personal anecdote of a full day a 1st grade teacher took for basically diversity training. I’m sure no one posting here had a big issue with my story, just an example to show that with a healthy balance of different things, including some social stuff is probably pretty good for a well rounded education. Nothing earth shattering.
I think it’s a great story. It’s good teaching.

I think the problem that has arisen is this idea that the majority of society is to blame for things that are basically out of their control. We led the world in education and now we are way behind. What changed? The answers to that aren’t addressed in that document. But the answer IMO is lowered standards.

And mark these words: if college becomes “free”, it will become just as bad as high school. Everybody passes, nobody comes, apathy among the teachers because of a broken system. Competencies are rapidly going extinct.
 

JumperJack

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You mean the colonists giving Native Americans small pox blankets? It being a myth is certainly up for debate. BAsically stating it's a fact that it is a mythe is disingenuous and ignores much academic research into the topic. Is it possible it is a myth? Yes. Is it possible that it did in fact happen? Yes. While some day it didn't happen, other say it did happen, and the frequency of it is also up for debate. As you will see in a few links below, there are ones saying it was a myth and others that aren't.


However, germ/biological warfare existed long before the 1600s though. The heavily-reference Wikipedia page for the history of biological warfare has numerous examples that indicate that.
If there’s doubt about it, is that doubt reflected in the instruction?
 

Beatle Bum

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My comment was based 100% on my own personal experiences.
I realize that. And, my comment did not claim that you followed unions. I made a simple statement about who promoted the myth that you believe is true because of your limited experience. You act as if I said you concur with unions. The two are distinct, yet you conflated them with your defensive pushback.
 

Mdnerd

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Wow this thread has been difficult to read, but eye opening all the same. It seems to me our education system fell apart when the administrators decided it was their job to fix societal issues rather than just teaching. This thread is a microcosm of America as a whole. No one can fully define the issues these schools want to fix and there is absolutely no consensus on a solution. The only absolute fact is everything tried to date has not worked and in many cases made things worse.

Maybe schools should get back to the basics of teaching up to standard rather than being thought police and the savior of society. The administrators and teachers don’t in fact know better than the parents and should not pretend to.
 

Ron Mehico

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I realize that. And, my comment did not claim that you followed unions. I made a simple statement about who promoted the myth that you believe is true because of your limited experience. You act as if I said you concur with unions. The two are distinct, yet you conflated them with your defensive pushback.

You’re making it more complicated than it needs to be. I’ve been around many home school kids and the majority are weird. Wasn’t picking on homeschool kids as I said the Asians and Indians I was around were weird as well. Just making the point that only math and science and whatnot has its negatives as well.
 

Crums Bald Spot

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Yeah, ok.

Exhibit A of what happens when you criticize leftist ideology - you are slandered with unrelated, incorrect emotional attacks.

Also want to point out that you attack me for being against “equal access” then attack that same equality in your subsequent post.

Equity, by definition, is the balance of the have and the have not. It is taking from the haves, giving to the have nots, thus creating equity. It is one of the core tenets of leftism which circles back to my original statement. It is wrong in a merit based society.

Equality, and more specifically, equality of opportunity, is something entirely different than equity.

Funky needs to tap out after taking that teabag to the chin.
 

Nightwish84

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Only read a couple posts but I find it humorous the ones bitching about liberal buzzwords have repeatedly and obsessively typed the word "grooming" ad nauseum within the last few weeks on this board. Would be super if some of you could, you know, look in a mirror occasionally. One side is just like the other side, and neither side can see it.
 

Mdnerd

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You’re making it more complicated than it needs to be. I’ve been around many home school kids and the majority are weird. Wasn’t picking on homeschool kids as I said the Asians and Indians I was around were weird as well. Just making the point that only math and science and whatnot has its negatives as well.

Not sure how old you are, but that was true previously, and mostly due to the fact kids were homeschooled due to their parents. Many kept their kids home due to their own anti social behavior.

That’s far less true today, as many very good and normal people just don’t want their children to be part of a terrible education system. There are also MANY social events for home schooled kids. They are not isolated by any stretch of the imagination unless the parents choose that. Many are quite normal and have normal social lives to include school athletics.
 
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MGGA

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It’s so damn obvious that some of you have not been inside a public school in ages that it’s funny. Go visit one. If you have kids in school, go shadow them. It’s allowed. Then report back about all the indoctrination going on.
 

Ron Mehico

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Not sure how old you are, but that was true previously, and mostly due to the fact kids were homeschooled due to their parents. Many kept their kids home due to their own anti social behavior.

That’s far less true today, as many very good and normal people just don’t want their children to be part of a terrible education system. There are also MANY social events for home schooled kids. They are not isolated by any stretch of the imagination unless the parents choose that. Many are quite normal and have normal social lives to include school athletics.

Hey look it’s great that you and caveman’s kids/grandkids/nephews whatever are homeschooled, I wish them the best. I wasn’t trying to hate on homeschool kids just saying a balance of education not just “math and science” is needed. Sounds like everyone agrees. Thought I was just making benign small talk. Some of you are very charged to argue like a bull in heat but that wasn’t my intent. Same reason I posted what I thought was just a nice story about my experience in American schools when I was a kid. Either way great to hear they are supplementing homeschool with social stuff.
 
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Beatle Bum

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You’re making it more complicated than it needs to be. I’ve been around many home school kids and the majority are weird. Wasn’t picking on homeschool kids as I said the Asians and Indians I was around were weird as well. Just making the point that only math and science and whatnot has its negatives as well.
Look, your experiences are what they are, but research defies the myth that homeschooled kids don’t experience socializing. I know many kids being homeschooled. They spend as much time socializing with other kids as public schooled kids. And, anecdotally, I will add Tim Tebow to the mix. Your experiences cannot be generalized to the total population and are not a reliable commentary on homeschooling. This was a hot topic before people were actually educated to the truth.
 
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