FC/OT: John Oliver lays out the student loan/debt crisis in America…

Midnighter

Well-known member
Oct 7, 2021
7,671
12,409
113
That's only half the equation though. Employers want people with degrees, I've said it several times in this thread. But they don't want to pay the people who got the degrees. Wages haven't kept up as the cost of living has continued to increase dramatically. Throw that on top of a massive student debt load and it is easy to see why people are asking for help.

Right. Friend of mine is a VP at a Top 100 company and is having to interview new administrative staff after a re-org. Top contender has a neuro-science degree from USC. Person decided that field wasn't for them and then decided a career change was in order. Now, do you need a neuro-science degree to do administrative work? Unlikely. But, what kind of degree do you need? Current administrative staff have business degrees, liberal arts degrees, etc. I'm not downplaying administrative work, but it's a lot of executive function/organizational/computer application/people skills as well as a bunch of common sense. Requiring degrees for *all* jobs is a big issue.
 

laKavosiey-st lion

Well-known member
Oct 30, 2021
5,776
4,259
113
Right. Friend of mine is a VP at a Top 100 company and is having to interview new administrative staff after a re-org. Top contender has a neuro-science degree from USC. Person decided that field wasn't for them and then decided a career change was in order. Now, do you need a neuro-science degree to do administrative work? Unlikely. But, what kind of degree do you need? Current administrative staff have business degrees, liberal arts degrees, etc. I'm not downplaying administrative work, but it's a lot of executive function/organizational/computer application/people skills as well as a bunch of common sense. Requiring degrees for *all* jobs is a big issue.
Getting hired is the key. Once you’re in the sky is the limit. You’d laugh at moms start (hint, not at VP)
 

BiochemPSU

Well-known member
Oct 30, 2021
453
635
93
Employers pay according to the market, not necessarily according to the degree.
But you need the degree to get the job. That’s what this whole mess is about. Either lower the cost to get an education, or employers need to start paying higher wages so that people can pay off the loans and contribute to the economy. Or, god forbid, have the government step in and give assistance to people who took out the loans; you know, like they do when businesses come looking for money.
 

bdgan

Well-known member
Oct 12, 2021
1,512
1,416
113
But you need the degree to get the job. That’s what this whole mess is about. Either lower the cost to get an education, or employers need to start paying higher wages so that people can pay off the loans
Alternatively people could stop borrowing large sums of money to become educated in a field where their acquired skills are in low demand. That's how supply and demand works.

STEM majors earn well over 6 figures after a few years. Pharmacists earn that right out of college. Dental hygienists can make $70k with a 2 yr degree. History majors are going to have a more difficult time getting a return on their investment.
 

leinbacker

Well-known member
Oct 13, 2021
1,640
2,651
113
But you need the degree to get the job. That’s what this whole mess is about. Either lower the cost to get an education, or employers need to start paying higher wages so that people can pay off the loans and contribute to the economy. Or, god forbid, have the government step in and give assistance to people who took out the loans; you know, like they do when businesses come looking for money.

Should government step up and pay for everyone's credit card debt? car loans? mortgages too?
 
  • Like
Reactions: bdgan and Bison13

Midnighter

Well-known member
Oct 7, 2021
7,671
12,409
113
Alternatively people could stop borrowing large sums of money to become educated in a field where their acquired skills are in low demand. That's how supply and demand works.

STEM majors earn well over 6 figures after a few years. Pharmacists earn that right out of college. Dental hygienists can make $70k with a 2 yr degree. History majors are going to have a more difficult time getting a return on their investment.

Average federal student loan debt is about $37,000.00 over 43 million borrowers. Again, the idea that everyone burdened by student loan debt is a Harvard DEI studies grad is absolute fantasy.
 
  • Like
Reactions: WEP6-12

bdgan

Well-known member
Oct 12, 2021
1,512
1,416
113
Average federal student loan debt is about $37,000.00 over 43 million borrowers. Again, the idea that everyone burdened by student loan debt is a Harvard DEI studies grad is absolute fantasy.
I never suggested that everybody is a Harvard DEI grad. I suggested that a college graduate with a marketable major should be able to repay a $37k loan. Unfortunately too many people go to expensive colleges and graduate with majors that don't produce a good return on investment.
 

A2nit

Member
Oct 12, 2021
164
194
43
Alternatively people could stop borrowing large sums of money to become educated in a field where their acquired skills are in low demand. That's how supply and demand works.

STEM majors earn well over 6 figures after a few years. Pharmacists earn that right out of college. Dental hygienists can make $70k with a 2 yr degree. History majors are going to have a more difficult time getting a return on their investment.
STEM, need to break this out, no way a BS in S is making that amount. Graduate/PhD, more school, more $$$ with minimal stipends maybe…
 

psu31trap

Well-known member
Oct 29, 2021
1,011
904
113
I worked full time and worked a second job on Saturdays to pay $150K for two kids. My daughter graduated Rutgers after 4 year’s and I paid 100% of her tuition ($75K). I made her a deal, she could live at school and pay the difference (nearly $50k) or commute and have 100% of her tuition paid, she chose the latter. My son graduated Rutgers and commuted as well, but he changed his major which forced him to attend school an additional year. He has a $30K student loan and doesn’t qualify for Biden’s tuition relief program. Both kids were gainfully employed 4 months (daughter) and 7 month (son) after graduating. Both have salaries in the mid $60’s.

As a single parent it wasn’t easy for me. I really had to lean on both kids. Today my daughter is grateful and completely understands why I was so rigid. Today she’s looking to buy her first home (Townhouse). My son not so much, he’s renting and struggling. He’s bitter and upset and kind of blames me for his financial situation.
 
Last edited:

LionJim

Well-known member
Oct 12, 2021
8,382
11,394
113
I worked full time and worked a second job on Saturdays to pay $150K for two kids. My daughter graduated Rutgers after 4 year’s and I paid 100% of her tuition ($75K). I made her a deal, she could live at school and pay the difference (nearly $50k) or commute and have 100% of her tuition paid, she chose the latter. My son graduated Rutgers and commuted as well, but he changed his major which forced him to attend school an additional year. He has a $30K student loan and doesn’t qualify for Biden’s tuition relief program. Both kids were gainfully employed 4 months (daughter) and 7 month (son) after graduating. Both have salaries in the mid $60’s.

As a single parent it wasn’t easy for me. I really had to lean on both kids. Today my daughter is grateful and completely understands why I was so rigid. Today she’s looking to buy her first home (Townhouse). My son not so much, he’s renting and struggling. He’s bitter and upset and kind of blames me for his financial situation.
You did your best, better than just about anyone could have done. A single parent? All respect, my friend. And Rutgers? Terrific math department.
 

razpsu

Well-known member
Oct 19, 2021
6,330
7,961
113
My father was very happy when he finally was done with teaching classes at psu, because the bs from all over that was going on his last 5-10 years as he said, was ridiculous. He taught classes well over 40 years and he especially loved working with students who were passionate about the field.
 

bdgan

Well-known member
Oct 12, 2021
1,512
1,416
113
STEM, need to break this out, no way a BS in S is making that amount. Graduate/PhD, more school, more $$$ with minimal stipends maybe…
I'm not sure what you mean about breaking STEM out. Do you mean engineering vs biology vs IT?

A B.S. in engineering should certainly make 6 figures within 5 yrs.
 

bdgan

Well-known member
Oct 12, 2021
1,512
1,416
113
I worked full time and worked a second job on Saturdays to pay $150K for two kids. My daughter graduated Rutgers after 4 year’s and I paid 100% of her tuition ($75K). I made her a deal, she could live at school and pay the difference (nearly $50k) or commute and have 100% of her tuition paid, she chose the latter. My son graduated Rutgers and commuted as well, but he changed his major which forced him to attend school an additional year. He has a $30K student loan and doesn’t qualify for Biden’s tuition relief program. Both kids were gainfully employed 4 months (daughter) and 7 month (son) after graduating. Both have salaries in the mid $60’s.

As a single parent it wasn’t easy for me. I really had to lean on both kids. Today my daughter is grateful and completely understands why I was so rigid. Today she’s looking to buy her first home (Townhouse). My son not so much, he’s renting and struggling. He’s bitter and upset and kind of blames me for his financial situation.
Why does your son blame you?
 
Dec 15, 2023
110
173
43
I worked full time and worked a second job on Saturdays to pay $150K for two kids. My daughter graduated Rutgers after 4 year’s and I paid 100% of her tuition ($75K). I made her a deal, she could live at school and pay the difference (nearly $50k) or commute and have 100% of her tuition paid, she chose the latter. My son graduated Rutgers and commuted as well, but he changed his major which forced him to attend school an additional year. He has a $30K student loan and doesn’t qualify for Biden’s tuition relief program. Both kids were gainfully employed 4 months (daughter) and 7 month (son) after graduating. Both have salaries in the mid $60’s.

As a single parent it wasn’t easy for me. I really had to lean on both kids. Today my daughter is grateful and completely understands why I was so rigid. Today she’s looking to buy her first home (Townhouse). My son not so much, he’s renting and struggling. He’s bitter and upset and kind of blames me for his financial situation.
Wow! Single parent and pulling that off is nothing short of amazing. Both kids need to be incredibly appreciative of what you did for their future. How do you feel about these billions in loan forgiveness though?

You worked your tail off to provide these opportunities for your kids and now you and your kids are going to be paying for someone else's kids to have their loans all forgiven through higher taxes and government debt. That's my main issue with this. It's like Robinhood in reverse. The ones getting billions stolen from them on average have a lower remaining career income potential (those who did not attend college, those who already paid for their college, those who already paid for their kids' college, those who served in the military to earn college tuition money, retirees, kids who have yet to go to college and have no guarantee theirs will get forgiven, parents of kids who have yet to go to college, etc.) than those to which the government is giving those billions (college grads with significant earning years and higher than average income potential). It really is Robinhood in reverse here stealing from the (on average more) poor and giving it to the (on average more) rich.

The other issue I have with this buy a vote scheme is that it drives up education inflation even further. Why would institutions of higher learning curb costs when the government is paying for it? This is incentive to increase college costs.

I don't disagree that college costs are too high after decades of college tuition inflation nearly doubling actual inflation. I simply believe that the solution is not to further encourage education inflation but rather to hold the institutions accountable for the ROI. If the institutions' ROI in a major is not above a reasonable threshold that gives the average graduate a reasonable opportunity to pay off their loans in a reasonable period with a reasonable percentage of their income, then the institutions need to be on the hook for paying off the loans. Very quickly we will get education inflation under control and an offering of the right degrees in the right proportions (student counts) to meet job market needs. And that doesn't have to be political. It doesn't have to be an obvious attempt to buy votes from a group of people especially when there is a much higher percent of people who are actually harmed by the vote buying scheme.

“A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the majority discovers it can vote itself largess out of the public treasury. After that, the majority always votes for the candidate promising the most benefits with the result the democracy collapses because of the loose fiscal policy ensuing, always to be followed by a dictatorship, then a monarchy."
 
Last edited:

LionJim

Well-known member
Oct 12, 2021
8,382
11,394
113
Wow! Single parent and pulling that off is nothing short of amazing. Both kids need to be incredibly appreciative of what you did for their future. How do you feel about these billions in loan forgiveness though?

You worked your tail off to provide these opportunities for your kids and now you and your kids are going to be paying for someone else's kids to have their loans all forgiven through higher taxes and government debt. That's my main issue with this. It's like Robinhood in reverse. The ones getting billions stolen from them on average have a lower remaining career income potential (those who did not attend college, those who already paid for their college, those who already paid for their kids' college, those who served in the military to earn college tuition money, retirees, etc.) than those to which the government is giving those billions (college grads with significant earning years and higher than average income potential). It really is Robinhood in reverse here stealing from the (on average more) poor and giving it to the (on average more) rich.

The other issue I have with this buy a vote scheme is that it drives up education inflation even further. Why would institutions of higher learning curb costs when the government is paying for it? This is incentive to increase college costs.

I don't disagree that college costs are too high after decades of college tuition inflation nearly doubling actual inflation. I simply believe that the solution is not to further encourage education inflation but rather to hold the institutions accountable for the ROI. If the institutions' ROI in a major is not above a reasonable threshold that gives the average graduate a reasonable opportunity to pay off their loans in a reasonable period with a reasonable percentage of their income, then the institutions need to be on the hook for paying off the loans. Very quickly we will get education inflation under control and an offering of the right degrees in the right proportions (student counts) to meet job market needs. And that doesn't have to be political. It doesn't have to be an obvious attempt to buy votes from a group of people especially when there is a much higher percent of people who are actually harmed by the vote buying scheme.

“A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the majority discovers it can vote itself largess out of the public treasury. After that, the majority always votes for the candidate promising the most benefits with the result the democracy collapses because of the loose fiscal policy ensuing, always to be followed by a dictatorship, then a monarchy."
here’s the guy responsible for the concluding quote. (I’d never heard of him before.)

 
Last edited:

laKavosiey-st lion

Well-known member
Oct 30, 2021
5,776
4,259
113
A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the majority discovers it can vote itself largess out of the public treasury. After that, the majority always votes for the candidate promising the most benefits with the result the democracy collapses because of the loose fiscal policy ensuing, always to be followed by a dictatorship, then a monarchy.

yo I’m trying to relax today
 

razpsu

Well-known member
Oct 19, 2021
6,330
7,961
113
Why does psu not give any assistance should
Be our question.
My daughter had full ride to sc or Clemson and Duke and nc offering the same for students but psu you get nuttin. Unfortunately I brain washed her for all things Penn state.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Bison13 and bdgan

bdgan

Well-known member
Oct 12, 2021
1,512
1,416
113
But you need the degree to get the job. That’s what this whole mess is about. Either lower the cost to get an education, or employers need to start paying higher wages so that people can pay off the loans and contribute to the economy. Or, god forbid, have the government step in and give assistance to people who took out the loans; you know, like they do when businesses come looking for money.
If the degree you're pursuing leads to a crap job you should probably rethink your plans.

Why should the government (ie. your fellow citizens) subsidize your poor choices?
 
Last edited:

bdgan

Well-known member
Oct 12, 2021
1,512
1,416
113
Tuition/fees/expenses top $90,000/year for Tufts, Wellesley, Boston University, and Yale.

In which case you better get a huge scholarship to cut those costs in half. Otherwise why go there unless it will lead to 2x the salary you would get by going to a school costing $45k/yr?
 

bdgan

Well-known member
Oct 12, 2021
1,512
1,416
113
Why does psu not give any assistance should
Be our question.
My daughter had full ride to sc or Clemson and Duke and nc offering the same for students but psu you get nuttin. Unfortunately I brain washed her for all things Penn state.
One of my kids graduated 2nd in their class and had top 5% standardized test scores. Lots of schools offered substantial merit based scholarships but the admissions office at PSU said the most she could get was $3k as a Schreyer Honors College student. We didn't bother to apply.
 
Last edited:

Midnighter

Well-known member
Oct 7, 2021
7,671
12,409
113
In which case you better get a huge scholarship to cut those costs in half. Otherwise why go there unless it will lead to 2x the salary you would get by going to a school costing $45k/yr?

Half the kids who go to those schools and pay full boat aren’t really worried about getting a job; their families are wealthy enough to where it doesn’t matter. It’s something else for mom and dad to brag about at the club. They subsidize the other half who get generous scholarships.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Bison13

PSUSignore

Well-known member
Oct 25, 2021
712
1,161
93
If the degree you're pursuing leads to a crap job you should probably rethink your plans.

Why should the government (ie. your fellow citizens) to subsidize your poor choices?
I agree somewhat, but part of the problem is many of those "crap" jobs that don't pay very well are still listing a college degree as a requirement in their job requirements.
 

bdgan

Well-known member
Oct 12, 2021
1,512
1,416
113
I agree somewhat, but part of the problem is many of those "crap" jobs that don't pay very well are still listing a college degree as a requirement in their job requirements.
Then pursue a different career.

Why spend a lot of money to quality for a crap job? Why should the government subsidize a person who does this.
 
Last edited:

laKavosiey-st lion

Well-known member
Oct 30, 2021
5,776
4,259
113
I agree somewhat, but part of the problem is many of those "crap" jobs that don't pay very well are still listing a college degree as a requirement in their job requirements.
If you can’t Google fu your way to learn average salaries of specific fields you should be an electrician like the rick
 

Bison13

Well-known member
Oct 13, 2021
1,569
2,682
113
One of my kids graduated 2nd in thrit class and had top 5% standardized test scores. Lots of schools offered substantial merit based scholarships but the admissions office at PSU said the most she could get was $3k as a Schreyer Honors College student. We didn't bother to apply.
This.. 💯it’s like the don’t even care to get the best kids anymore, just who is willing to pay full price
 
Dec 15, 2023
110
173
43
here’s the guy responsible for the concluding quote. (I’d never heard of him before.)

Speaking of which, the budget proposal for next year is $8 trillion. They are projecting over $10 trillion in interest payments on the national debt over the next decade. We are perhaps already too far along this quote's path to save ourselves.

US Debt Costs Will Hit New Record by 2025: Goldman Sachs (businessinsider.com)
 
  • Like
Reactions: bdgan

PSUFTG2

Well-known member
Jul 1, 2023
551
1,159
93
Wow! Single parent and pulling that off is nothing short of amazing. Both kids need to be incredibly appreciative of what you did for their future. How do you feel about these billions in loan forgiveness though?

You worked your tail off to provide these opportunities for your kids and now you and your kids are going to be paying for someone else's kids to have their loans all forgiven through higher taxes and government debt. That's my main issue with this. It's like Robinhood in reverse. The ones getting billions stolen from them on average have a lower remaining career income potential (those who did not attend college, those who already paid for their college, those who already paid for their kids' college, those who served in the military to earn college tuition money, retirees, kids who have yet to go to college and have no guarantee theirs will get forgiven, parents of kids who have yet to go to college, etc.) than those to which the government is giving those billions (college grads with significant earning years and higher than average income potential). It really is Robinhood in reverse here stealing from the (on average more) poor and giving it to the (on average more) rich.

The other issue I have with this buy a vote scheme is that it drives up education inflation even further. Why would institutions of higher learning curb costs when the government is paying for it? This is incentive to increase college costs.

I don't disagree that college costs are too high after decades of college tuition inflation nearly doubling actual inflation. I simply believe that the solution is not to further encourage education inflation but rather to hold the institutions accountable for the ROI. If the institutions' ROI in a major is not above a reasonable threshold that gives the average graduate a reasonable opportunity to pay off their loans in a reasonable period with a reasonable percentage of their income, then the institutions need to be on the hook for paying off the loans. Very quickly we will get education inflation under control and an offering of the right degrees in the right proportions (student counts) to meet job market needs. And that doesn't have to be political. It doesn't have to be an obvious attempt to buy votes from a group of people especially when there is a much higher percent of people who are actually harmed by the vote buying scheme.

“A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the majority discovers it can vote itself largess out of the public treasury. After that, the majority always votes for the candidate promising the most benefits with the result the democracy collapses because of the loose fiscal policy ensuing, always to be followed by a dictatorship, then a monarchy."
👏👏👏👏
 
  • Like
Reactions: LionJim

Latest posts