FC/OT: The secret to SEC success..,,
- Thread starter Midnighter
- Start date
Brett McMurphy, Exhibit A in the case for forced sterilization.
McMurphy does a fine job of making a completely meaningless point.
Yes, the SEC is the only P5 conference (IIRC) that doesn't mandate 9 in-conference games.
Yes, that means they, generally, schedule one more non-P5 game per year.
But intimating that that somehow determines whether or not a team plays a brutal, or a cupcake, schedule is completely inane.
Obviously, the bulk of a team's schedule "toughness" is the quality of all the in-conference foes they do face.
Clemson's "brutal" 10 P5 schedule for next year:
Duke
Florida State
Syracuse
Wake Forest
Miami
NC State
Notre Dame
Georgia Tech
North Carolina
South Carolina
Charleston Southern
Florida Atlantic
Alabama's "cupcake" 9 P5 schedule for next year:
Texas
Mississippi State
Mississippi
Arkansas
Texas A&M
LSU
Tennessee
Kentucky
Auburn
South Florida
Middle Tennessee
Chattanooga
Closer to home, here is Iowa's brutal 10 P5 schedule:
Northwestern
Illinois
Nebraska
Wisconsin
Purdue
Minnesota
Penn State
Michigan State
Rutgers
Iowa State
Utah State
Western Michigan
Yes, and it is a fact that one P5 team on many Big Ten schedules, year in and year out, is Rutgers.
Another fact is that McMurphy is a blithering idiot. Ordinarily that is an opinion, but in McMurphy's case the evidence is so overwhelming that it is fact.
Please take this opportunity to thank jim delany for not leaving PSU on an island.
I've always said, it's not the bottom feeder teams on your schedule, it's the few top dogs; AND, when you play them.
It’s also the order in which they play; I honestly don’t understand defending obvious gamesmanship here.
It’s all of them. Ask James Franklin what he thinks about Pitt, Minnesota, and Illinois.
Pate did a great job explaining this recently. It's not just the number of P5s, it's also the number of cupcakes (the SEC isn't as bad as many think), when you play said cupcakes, and the willingness of those asking for everyone to play a tough schedule to reward those teams even if they have more losses as a result.
The last point is maybe the most important. Until the committee shows that they'll put a 1-2 loss team with a brutal schedule ahead of a 0-1 loss team with a cakewalk then this isn't going to change because teams aren't incentivized to have a difficult schedule. 2016 was a perfect opportunity for the playoff committee to make this statement by putting in PSU instead of Washington with their putrid schedule, and the committee rewarded Washington. What came of this? Take a look at PSU's future non-conference opponents... as of today WVU is the best program on the schedule in the next 6 seasons which is pathetic. This is what the committee created, crappy games for fans but an attempt by the programs to position themselves for the playoffs.
The timing is also vital. It sure must be nice for Bama and many other SEC teams playing the likes of Citadel before the toughest rivalry game on their schedule every single year. The Big 10 does no such thing. But with conference autonomy, why would they ever change it? The SEC wants to prop up their best teams for the playoffs because a playoff bid equals more money. The Big 10 is stupid for not following suit and creating these scheduling advantages for their best programs to try to get more playoff berths.
Penn State - which, as a member of the B10 East plays, IMO, a relatively difficult schedule in most years - has had, for the last 6 non-COVID years BOTH Rutgers and Maryland on their November schedule (with one exception, when they had Rutgers but not Maryland).
If anyone wants to point to a high-profile team with easy finishing slates, PSU would be near the top of the list.
That said, as mentioned earlier, PSU as a part of the B10 east plays, IMO, a solid full season schedule most years (most of the tougher games have been, historically, in the October/Midseason stretch).
But if the argument is "a couple of cupcakes in November help a team get to a higher level of success" (I don't necessarily think that argument holds water, FWIW), PSU has nothing to complain about.
Just looking at number of P5 opponents can be misleading and I do agree that the quality of opponents is more important.
That said, within the SEC there have been unbalanced schedules from team to team. A team like UK, whose coach thinks playing Louisville OOC is a good enough reason to stay at 8 conference games, has usually benefitted from this.
An 8 game schedule may allow for the possibility of the SEC grabbing an additional expanded CFP bid for a borderline 2/3 loss team.
That said, within the SEC there have been unbalanced schedules from team to team. A team like UK, whose coach thinks playing Louisville OOC is a good enough reason to stay at 8 conference games, has usually benefitted from this.
An 8 game schedule may allow for the possibility of the SEC grabbing an additional expanded CFP bid for a borderline 2/3 loss team.
If only there were a way for teams from different conferences to play each other so we could find out who is better
LSU plays Southern, Grambling State, Army, and Georgia State this year. I think Rutgers is maybe second best in that group.
Is there?
Not really. With ~130 FBS teams - 68 (IIRC) in the P5 alone - and no room on anyone's schedule to have more than 1 P5-P5 home-and-home per year (due to the financials, the length of the season, and the need to schedule 8 or 9 conference games) any meaningful number of OOC P5 games is a moot point.
Never gonna' happen - unless you take an axe and eliminate 3/4 of the current FBS programs (which would mean ALL of the mid-majors, and 1/2 of the P5) and eliminate all the current conferences, and have what's left play only one another (and even then, the 12 game season limits it a lot).... So, bottom line, ain't gonna' happen.
Then again, with the way things are going, maybe it is not so crazy to envision 30ish teams breaking away and creating an NFL D League, with teams wearing University Logos - and doing just that. Who knows?
Many UK fans favor 8 because that's 4 OOC games to snag wins.
Saban was a proponent of 9 until Kirby passed him up and Knoxville finally played with a pulse again. Also playing UGA every other year in the regular season probably didn't help.
It's going to happen when the Big 10 and SEC split off from everyone else and have some consistent governance between them without the useless NCAA. That's the direction things seem to be headed. They'll probably each have 20+ members but comparing 40 schools across 2 conferences is a lot easier than doing so across ~130 schools. I could see a playoff similar to an NFL format with the Big 10 and SEC champs meeting in the final game of the season.
I kind of expected this to be a who’s the hottest SEC edition.
The best (and only) way to make changes in College Football is with financial incentives. If individual teams make significantly more money by playing out of conference power 5 teams, it will happen. Presently the exact opposite is true. Not only does scheduling a P5 team make it more difficult to make the playoffs, but teams lose a home game every other year. Cupcakes don’t require a reciprocal visit to their stadium.
Why? P5 vs. G5 record from 2014 to 2020. Quit giving these guys a pass:
| P5 conf | record against G5s, 2014*-2020 | W% |
|---|---|---|
| ACC* | 60-15 | 80.00% |
| BIG 12 | 67-15 | 81.71% |
| BIG TEN | 138-25 | 84.66% |
| PAC-12 | 87-30 | 74.36% |
| SEC | 152-21 | 87.86% |
When’s the last time we were competitive with the top 4 big boys in the sec?
But of course we can go state beat blue hens some more. We can’t hold UGAs cups and couldn’t for a long time
Until recently (last five years or so) Penn State was - historically - a better program than Georgia. They gave up on the Richt experiment though.
Do you think we'd be more competitive against the SEC if we played Delaware, UT Chattanooga, Citadel, and Furman more often? I mean, it's working for the SEC....
Depends on when you play them. Play UT Chattanooga the week before you play Michigan and play Citadel the week before O$U. Keep the guys sharp, but don't wear them out or risk injuries.
Valid points. Would you then think that scheduling 2 major powers, (for example, Michigan and Ohio State) in consecutive weeks might be a huge DISadvantage?
In the CFP Semi Final games - where they "best" are playing the "best", both with plenty of time off before the games:
SEC teams are 10-1 (6 of the 10 winners went on to win the title game. Twice they played other SEC teams - so 2 of the 4 SEC losses in the finals were to other SEC teams)
The last SEC team to lose a semifinal game was in 2014 - when OSU beat Alabama, in the first "Final 4" (Since then, they are 10-0).
B10 teams are 2-6 (1 won the title game, 1 lost)
The SEC teams aren't more successful because they only play 8 conference games. When their top teams play other top teams (and often it is both the top team, and the runner-up, from the SEC) they overwhelmingly win.
That is how they earned the reputation as the best.
FWIW, the other conferences:
ACC 4-3 in semifinals (all Clemson as the winners - who then went 2-2 in the finals)
Big 12 1-4 in semifinals (the one winner, TCU, lost in the finals)
PAC 12 1-1 in semifinals (the one winner, Oregon, lost in the finals)
SEC teams are 10-1 (6 of the 10 winners went on to win the title game. Twice they played other SEC teams - so 2 of the 4 SEC losses in the finals were to other SEC teams)
The last SEC team to lose a semifinal game was in 2014 - when OSU beat Alabama, in the first "Final 4" (Since then, they are 10-0).
B10 teams are 2-6 (1 won the title game, 1 lost)
The SEC teams aren't more successful because they only play 8 conference games. When their top teams play other top teams (and often it is both the top team, and the runner-up, from the SEC) they overwhelmingly win.
That is how they earned the reputation as the best.
FWIW, the other conferences:
ACC 4-3 in semifinals (all Clemson as the winners - who then went 2-2 in the finals)
Big 12 1-4 in semifinals (the one winner, TCU, lost in the finals)
PAC 12 1-1 in semifinals (the one winner, Oregon, lost in the finals)
Tell me we hang with uga bama lsu Kentucky etc. do it with a straight face. I do think they score big by sneaking a blue hen in 3/4 thru the season