That is a very generous interpretation as to what the Supreme Court has ruled, up to this point. Moreover, it may well be the case that state courts may be able to provide additional protection for individual rights in this circumstances, over and beyond what federal court provide, so things are quite unsettled at this point. No doubt some attorneys here could provide more insight on this, but it's very static and should continue to be so for quite some time.
Fired Washington State coach sues school
- Thread starter gobigblue812_rivals29381
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That is a very generous interpretation as to what the Supreme Court has ruled, up to this point. Moreover, it may well be the case that state courts may be able to provide additional protection for individual rights in this circumstances, over and beyond what federal court provide, so things are quite unsettled at this point. No doubt some attorneys here could provide more insight on this, but it's very static and should continue to be so for quite some time.
They have refused to hear any cases that have already said the mandates are legal. That means they agree with those rulings.
So he can choose to not be vaccinated and he can choose to stay the coach of WSU, but he cannot choose both. This is fair IMO.
So everyone? We already require a variety of vaccines. We require physicals to play sports. We require drug tests to get jobs. We require blood tests to get married. I guess everyone is a communist.
I thought y’all liked at-will employment and employees being expected to do as their employer dictates or work elsewhere.
Interesting point, although I'm not sure who "y'all" is- I doubt that I have posted as you just described. By the way, Rolovich was not "at will"- he was under a contract. I haven't read his contract, nor do I plan to do if it was available, but the contract may be relevant in future proceedings there.
I understand the anti mandate crowd at least to some extent, but not for jobs where a lot of people have no choice but to be around you. No one chooses to be in a hospital, they are sick and need surgery or something, so I can't see it is unreasonable to require hospital workers to be vaccinated. Same for schools, kids have no choice but to go to school, can't see it is unreasonable to require teachers and administrators to be vaccinated. Football coaches are going to be in crowded lockers rooms and meeting halls. Airline personnel, etc.
I am aware of a local bank that was actually glad about the mandates, because they had a lot of employees that did not want to come to work with a bunch of unvaccinated co workers. Mandate gave them "cover" to require vaccinations.
OTOH, you work as a computer programmer from home, or in a small office where you rarely have to come in contact with the public, or work outside, e.g., staff at a park or golf course, where the risk is much much lower, I at least understand the right to say I don't want a vaccine. I personally think that is a really bad decision, for the record, but I can at least understand the POV.
I am aware of a local bank that was actually glad about the mandates, because they had a lot of employees that did not want to come to work with a bunch of unvaccinated co workers. Mandate gave them "cover" to require vaccinations.
OTOH, you work as a computer programmer from home, or in a small office where you rarely have to come in contact with the public, or work outside, e.g., staff at a park or golf course, where the risk is much much lower, I at least understand the right to say I don't want a vaccine. I personally think that is a really bad decision, for the record, but I can at least understand the POV.
At the end of the day, people just enjoy complaining to a group of strangers on the internet. For many, it's their favorite activity. It's why you see several posting on a public message board that they're being silenced, or claiming the Governor is a tyrant, or comparing the choice of either getting vaccinated or getting tested weekly to Nazi Germany, or acting as if you're a murderer if you're not vaccinated. Christ, I'm glad I was fairly young when seat belt laws were passed. "It's my car!" "This is America! Red White and Fk Off because it's my car!" "Welcome to Hitler's America!"
We've got it pretty damn good, yet all anyone does is complain.
We've got it pretty damn good, yet all anyone does is complain.
The Catholic Church teaches that the Pope is capable of making "infallible" statements, so I do think the Church believes the Pope is the end all be all. Like everything, people don't always follow their leader, but if you want to know the Catholic Church's stance on an issue, you ask the Pope.
Pre Covid, did you complain about having to get vaccinations before going to school etc.? Was in communist when kids had to get measles shots and polio shots in order to go to school?
Just sayin'.....pretty much the trend all around the world for those reporting info (and if the info sees the light of day in the media)...
Truth Being Ignored - Victoria Australia Records 867 New COVID Cases, 375 in Hospital and 95% of Those Hospitalized are Vaccinated - The Last Refuge
Pay close attention to what Victoria, Australia, Health Minister Martin Foley says at the 2:45 minute mark of his comments. Health Minister Foley announced 867 new COVID cases recorded yesterday. During the statistical outline Foley identifies 375 people as hospitalized, 81 people in intensive...theconservativetreehouse.com
IMO, there's several differences between the traditional vaccine mandates and the C19 'vaccine' mandate, including:
1) the measles, polio, and smallpox vaccines (to name a few) had long term testing to measure efficacy & side effects before being widely used; not so much w/ the C19 vax.
2) the traditional vaccines addressed more dangerous life threatening or life altering diseases, whereas the C19 "vaccine" is a treatment looking for a disease (ie: C19 has a 99%+ survival rate -- basically a slightly more aggressive flu-like virus).
3) VAERS has recorded nearly 17K deaths that are possibly linked to the C19 vaccine --- more than all other vaccine's combined (and the 17K is very likely a very low ball number due to under reporting).
4) it looks like the C19 'vaccine' may possibly require annual or biannual (or more --- we simply don't know yet) boosters for the entirety of an individual's lifetime to maintain effectiveness, whereas most of the traditional 'true' vaccines do not require nearly that many boosters (if any for some).
5) studies appear to indicate that those who have already survived C19 have more natural immunity than the vaxxed, but mandates ignore this reality and want to force an unnecessary treatment on these individuals. Again, another example of a treatment looking for a disease.
6) the medical community has given minimal effort in studying prophylactics or treatment regimens despite ample evidence that inexpensive and safe drugs may already exist (ie: Ivermectin) to effectively treat C19. The correlation of Ivermectin use and C19 mitigation in India is but one example (there are others) that is worth studying further, yet the 'powers-that-be' both mock (disparaging Ivermectin as "horse dewormer" despite being a Nobel prize-winning prescription med) and dismiss this possible solution whole-cloth.
I could go on, but I think these are the most salient differences.
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I'd also add that our leaders have continually lied, contradicted themselves, and not been forthcoming with the facts. This does not help. At All.
I am not following your logic. Even if the Pope is capable of making infallible statements, it doesn't necessarily follow that he always does so. I realize that you are a 1984 style totalitarian at heart, but it doesn't necessarily follow that other people subscribe to your religious interpretations, and basically, my philosophy is that neither you, nor the Pope, will give me orders, old man. I don't take instructions from a false Pope and I certainly won't from you.
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He will lose.
his right to refuse the shot. His employer’s right to mandate it and terminate him if he refuses. No different than any other work rule as long as it’s applied fairly.
his right to refuse the shot. His employer’s right to mandate it and terminate him if he refuses. No different than any other work rule as long as it’s applied fairly.
He's under contract, so there needs to be a justification under his contract to fire him "with cause" and not pay him. They'll settle; WSU fans will largely be livid about the whole situation and it will set the program back for no good reason at all; it's a ******** situation in the first place; and Rolovich has a bright future in coaching despite what you and Dan Woken wish for.
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The governor of Washington happens to be woke. Not that being woke should have anything to do with vaccine mandates, and, yet, somehow, it does. In the vast majority of other states, Rolovich would still be employed, but WSU lost a very good coach because the governor is woke. Ironically, WSU is in a non-woke part of Washington State, but I guess Seattle basically controls the whole state due to its metro population. Ultimately, the woke majority of Seattle indirectly cost Rolovich his job, and I'd bet the vast majority of the woke voters in Seattle don't even care about football in the first place.
I was merely responding to a statement that Catholics don't look at the Pope as the end all be all. People that follow Catholic doctrine absolutely due. I pass no judgment on whether they are right or wrong, but to say Catholics don't think the Pope is right is incorrect as it relates to Catholics that follow the doctrine of their religion. I sense some hypocrisy because so many say Muslims can't be peaceful because their religion teaches jihad, so all Muslims must be bad. But, Catholics can disagree with their religion and they are correct when they do.
The justification under his contract is that he is violating the law (and yes, mandates are law until stricken down) and is therefore unable to fulfill his duties in coaching his team because while unvaccinated he is unable to coach his team.
I am far from an Orwellian totalitarian. I've been complaining for years that the government has overstepped its place in most every thing it does. I refuse to have an Alexa, or anything that might monitor what I am doing because I believe that the government will eventually get its hand on all of the data. But, the arguments against vaccine mandates that rely on constitutional rights are just plain wrong. Everyone absolutely has a right to refuse the vaccine. They also have a right to get sick if they so choose. But, the Supreme Court has been clear that the government has a right to mandate vaccination if it (through elected officials, mind you) determine that it is for the betterment of the health of those governed. As far as my religious interpretations, while raised Catholic, I'm basically agnostic. I eat steak on Friday during lent if I so choose. Having said that, I would not rely on my Catholic upbringing to qualify for a religious exemption if the Catholic Church doesn't support my position. Come up with something other than being Catholic if you want a religious exemption.
This is not true. There have been barely over 8,000 vaccinated people die, with no causal connection to the vaccine.
I stand corrected! Only 8K deaths related to the C19 'vax' in roughly 9 months AS COMPARED TO 7K DEATHS REPORTED ON VAERS (as of June 2021) FOR ALL OTHER VACCINE'S COMBINED SINCE 1990 WHEN VAERS WAS INITIALLY LAUNCHED --- not to mention the 384K+ adverse reactions in just 6 months (Jan-June 2021). Indeed, these stats do not necessarily show causality (likewise, they also do not necessarily exclude causality), but they certainly don't make me want to run out and schedule a C19 vax appointment, either.
*** Link above takes you to compiled data taken from VAERS & FAERS (January-June 2021) provided by Sen. Ron Johnson
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It doesn't especially when you have a standing, binding contractual agreement with the very same government.
Of course I didn't see the contract, but I can't imagine it has a clause that covers this. Force majeure wouldn't cover the change in employment requirements.
Barring such an applicable clause, A competent court will order the school pay it in full. Once a contract is formed, one side can't just unilaterally change the terms.
8000 vaccinated people have died, not "related" to the vaccine. Remember when you were arguing that if someone dies with Covid, it's not "because" of Covid. I guess that same argument doesn't apply whey you are trying to prove your anti vax point. But, keep your agenda, I get you. I like you guys that make **** up, and then when called out say "I stand corrected" and then move the goal post.
Although I admittedly was mistaken on the 17K number I provided originally, the fact remains that the 'goalpost' has not been moved; the 8K death total listed under C19 vax VAERS entries over a 9-10 month span is higher than the total number of deaths listed under all other VAERS vaccine entries over the span of 30+ years --- this is the overriding point I was emphasizing and it remains the most concerning aspect of the data, IMO. I also did point out that the VAERS data does not prove causality, but you must likewise concede that VAERS entries do not disprove or exclude causality, either. This data simply indicates that further examination of the potential dangers are worth exploring rather than to be brushed under the rug and minimized by politicians who actually do have an agenda to influence public opinion, or who are in a position to strong-arm compliance by fiat.
I post here to share a point of view, not to shape opinions, so in that context, I have no agenda b/c I really do not care what others choose to do with regard to taking the C19 vax, and I certainly understand that an anonymous post by me or you will not influence anyone's opinion on the matter. This exchange (and all other posts relating to C19 and other controversial topics) is nothing more than an entertaining way to pass time and to exercise the mind by way of debating differing points of view -- nothing more.
In reality, a C19 vax mandate really doesn't affect me one way or the other b/c I will not comply, but others might not have the same options I'm blessed to have; I have no qualms with trusting the natural C19 immunity that I've acquired through infection, with finding different employment (or being self-employed), or with pulling my kiddos from public school (we have home schooled for several years before). The only 'agenda' I have is to protect and to provide for my family, which I will do, regardless of someone else's opinion, and regardless of any mandate. Likewise, everyone else is free to weigh their options, make their decisions, and live with the consequences of those decisions --- which is as it should be.
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BBBLazing said:
"8000 vaccinated people have died, not "related" to the vaccine. Remember when you were arguing that if someone dies with Covid, it's not "because" of Covid. I guess that same argument doesn't apply whey you are trying to prove your anti vax point. But, keep your agenda, I get you. I like you guys that make **** up, and then when called out say "I stand corrected" and then move the goal post."
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....As it turns out, I didn't "make ish up"......we were each referring to different data. The 8K VAERS death events for the C19 'vax' you referenced is/was US data only, while I was referencing the worldwide data of 17K total deaths entered in VAERS.
VAERS Data Analysis Through 10/22/2021
I will agree with you in one sense: "the goalposts" have moved throughout this C19 fiasco......it's just becoming more apparent with each passing day that the C19 'vaccine' hesitant group ISN'T the one moving them!
The Moving Goalposts
*** Just a few weeks to flatten the curve.
*** Masks really don't help. (early Fauci)
*** Masks are indispensable in stopping the spread.
*** Our frontline unvaccinated docs & nurses are heroes and indispensable!
*** We cannot trust any vaccine developed under Trump (Biden, Kamala, et. al)
*** Now that I'm in office, you should trust the vaccine and get jabbed. (Biden, Kamala, et. al)
*** There will be no vaccine mandates (they will be patient with you for now). (Biden)
*** The immunity derived from vaccines will allow us to get back to normal.
*** Just get the jab and we can return to normal.
*** Just get a second jab and everything can return to normal.
*** Just get the booster and, you guessed it, everything can get back to normal.
*** You may need boosters every few months for the rest of your life --- this is the new normal.
*** There is no immunity derived from the vax --- you just get 'less sick' --- this is the new normal.
*** We have lost our patience! Vaccines for businesses are mandated. (Biden)
*** Frontline docs and nurses apparently are expendable if they don't comply!
I could go on, with the "moving goalposts" but I believe I've made my point sufficiently.
"8000 vaccinated people have died, not "related" to the vaccine. Remember when you were arguing that if someone dies with Covid, it's not "because" of Covid. I guess that same argument doesn't apply whey you are trying to prove your anti vax point. But, keep your agenda, I get you. I like you guys that make **** up, and then when called out say "I stand corrected" and then move the goal post."
______________________________________________________________________________
....As it turns out, I didn't "make ish up"......we were each referring to different data. The 8K VAERS death events for the C19 'vax' you referenced is/was US data only, while I was referencing the worldwide data of 17K total deaths entered in VAERS.
VAERS Data Analysis Through 10/22/2021
I will agree with you in one sense: "the goalposts" have moved throughout this C19 fiasco......it's just becoming more apparent with each passing day that the C19 'vaccine' hesitant group ISN'T the one moving them!
The Moving Goalposts
*** Just a few weeks to flatten the curve.
*** Masks really don't help. (early Fauci)
*** Masks are indispensable in stopping the spread.
*** Our frontline unvaccinated docs & nurses are heroes and indispensable!
*** We cannot trust any vaccine developed under Trump (Biden, Kamala, et. al)
*** Now that I'm in office, you should trust the vaccine and get jabbed. (Biden, Kamala, et. al)
*** There will be no vaccine mandates (they will be patient with you for now). (Biden)
*** The immunity derived from vaccines will allow us to get back to normal.
*** Just get the jab and we can return to normal.
*** Just get a second jab and everything can return to normal.
*** Just get the booster and, you guessed it, everything can get back to normal.
*** You may need boosters every few months for the rest of your life --- this is the new normal.
*** There is no immunity derived from the vax --- you just get 'less sick' --- this is the new normal.
*** We have lost our patience! Vaccines for businesses are mandated. (Biden)
*** Frontline docs and nurses apparently are expendable if they don't comply!
I could go on, with the "moving goalposts" but I believe I've made my point sufficiently.
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No, but if I already had polio/measles/etc would I choose to get a vaccine anyway? Nope.
Don't you hurt your own argument by pointing this out while calling these people "anti vaxx?" They're not anti-vax. They're anti this BS medical experiment that hasn't been tested long enough to actually see what it does and you know this. We've already seen a lot of the effects/deaths it has caused.
But hey, keep on blindly trusting Big Pharma/Bureaucrats and not questioning their motives and conflicts of interests. They totally care about you and totally not at all about money and power.
Rick Pitino
Ron Cooper (threatened a discrimination suit and UL paid within days). The guy couldn't own that a 1-10 record in your 3rd season will get you fired.
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Religious beliefs are sincere personally held beliefs, not what the mainstream religion promotes. Most Catholics use the Pope as religious advice, not a mandate, like eating at a cafeteria.
“Act of love!” LOL When the vaccinated Pope gets Covid, has he sinned against others?
But, how is that relevant to this one person?
True.
So, because there are examples government overreach, I guess government overreach should always be permitted.
Hey, if you can command a contract, good for you. But, if you can, you ain’t “at will.”
The problem I have with mandating front line workers is that those same workers were on the line and risking all before we knew much. And, now we say, screw that, you are fired. What happened to the heroes? Especially if they can show natural immunity.
We should not complain about lying leaders, because we have always had lying leaders.
This is not true. There is no verifiable proven correlation, but you nor I know if there was a causal connection.