FIRST NEW NUCLEAR REACTOR LICENSE GRANTED IN 19 YRS (in our back yard too)

[Chuckinden]

I didn't know this was about to happen. It's ironic that the last reactor license granted was this one's sister plant.

Appears someone has some pull in Tennessee.


http://www.timesfreepress.com/news/...cense---first-new-us-reactor-19-years/331905/

 

[UnfrozenCatfanLawyer]

F*** YEAH

 

[Xception]

Spring city is not far from Oak Ridge which made plutonium in 1942 using a graphite reactor . Any China syndrome scenario could have a impact on Ky/ Barkley lakes since the Tennessee river is nearby and the primary tributary . In a strange similarity to the three mile island meltdown in Pennsylvania a town called ten mile is across the river from spring city .

 

[Deeeefense]

Very nostalgic for me. I worked at TVA as a contracting officer from 79 - 92. WE worked our butts off trying to get Watts Bar and several other Nuc plants build then one day they powers at the top decided we weren't going to need all that power so we deferred both units and several other plants were deferred or cancelled completely. Unit 1 was completed several years ago and it's good to see Unit 2 finally being lit off.

All that work we did wasn't for nothin after all.:smiley:

 

[Free_Salato_Blue]

This old tech or some the new or experimental tech which there are several start up companies like Bill Gates TerraPower looking into.
I was reading that they are looking to have small prefab plants being manufactured.

http://www.popsci.com/leslie-dewan-and-mark-massie-are-reviving-nuclear-dream

 

[starchief]

Very nostalgic for me. I worked at TVA as a contracting officer from 79 - 92. WE worked our butts off trying to get Watts Bar and several other Nuc plants build then one day they powers at the top decided we weren't going to need all that power so we deferred both units and several other plants were deferred or cancelled completely. Unit 1 was completed several years ago and it's good to see Unit 2 finally being lit off.

All that work we did wasn't for nothin after all.:smiley:

Don't be so happy. When it springs a leak, you'll get the blame for that too.

 

[We-Todd-Did]

Nuclear power has produced almost as many autistic children as Jenny McCarthy's ******.

Stop the madness.

 

[Big_Blue79]

This old tech or some the new or experimental tech which there are several start up companies like Bill Gates TerraPower looking into.
I was reading that they are looking to have small prefab plants being manufactured.

http://www.popsci.com/leslie-dewan-and-mark-massie-are-reviving-nuclear-dream

I wish we'd seriously look into molten salt reactors. They almost sound too good to be true, but at least there's research and (maybe) investment going on after it stagnated for half a century. Looks promising.

 

[RacerX.ksr]

Bellefonte should be the next in line for TVA. It's located in Hollywood Alabama, more commonly known as BFE.

Plant Vogtle near Augusta Georgia will probably be the next site to come on line. Unit 3 is supposed to done in 2019 and unit 4 in 2020.

 

[AthensCatFan]

Nuclear power has produced almost as many autistic children as Jenny McCarthy's ******.

Stop the madness.

Are people actually afraid of nuclear power?

 

[akers65]

After Japan's problems, many have concerns about the safety in the event of a natural disaster.

 

[AthensCatFan]

I guess I understand that concern, but I live within 50 miles of two plants and it's never really even crossed my mind.

 

[RacerX.ksr]

After Japan's problems, many have concerns about the safety in the event of a natural disaster.

We don't have the same problem here. We have a few plants that are the exact same design as the one in Japan. Big difference is, we keep the diesel fuel for the diesel generators underground, where it is safe. They had it out back where it got washed away by a tidal wave. Granted, no wave was ever supposed to reach that high, but it did.

We have never had a commercial plant like Chernobyl. Every plant in the US has a containment structure. Speaking of which, the containment structure at Three Mile Island did its job and when the smoke cleared, the public received no more radiation than they would have it they had been out in the Sun.

Three Mile Island was caused by human error. Operators overrode the system and caused the problem. They can no longer do that. Every plant in the US had TMI modifications that took that control away and gave it to the computer. If something goes wrong, the unit scrams and doesn't ask for permission.

Nuclear power is clean, safe, and efficient. If it wasn't for the same uninformed, tree hugger, activists that are now clamoring for clean, safe, and efficient power, we could be getting 80% of our power from nukes instead of 20%.

 

[UKGrad93]

We don't have the same problem here. We have a few plants that are the exact same design as the one in Japan. Big difference is, we keep the diesel fuel for the diesel generators underground, where it is safe. They had it out back where it got washed away by a tidal wave. Granted, no wave was ever supposed to reach that high, but it did.

We have never had a commercial plant like Chernobyl. Every plant in the US has a containment structure. Speaking of which, the containment structure at Three Mile Island did its job and when the smoke cleared, the public received no more radiation than they would have it they had been out in the Sun.

Three Mile Island was caused by human error. Operators overrode the system and caused the problem. They can no longer do that. Every plant in the US had TMI modifications that took that control away and gave it to the computer. If something goes wrong, the unit scrams and doesn't ask for permission.

Nuclear power is clean, safe, and efficient. If it wasn't for the same uninformed, tree hugger, activists that are now clamoring for clean, safe, and efficient power, we could be getting 80% of our power from nukes instead of 20%.

+1000[thumb2]

 

[Free_Salato_Blue]

I wish we'd seriously look into molten salt reactors. They almost sound too good to be true, but at least there's research and (maybe) investment going on after it stagnated for half a century. Looks promising.

Seems out DoE is partnering with China to develop MSR reactors over there. Expect China to lead the way in this technology and sell it back to us.
The ability for it to use the stockpiles of nuclear waste as fuel is intriguing.

http://www.zmescience.com/ecology/what-is-molten-salt-reactor-424343/

 

[Big_Blue79]

^ That's one of the best parts, imho. If it's feasible, it's the future.

 

[UKGrad93]

Seems out DoE is partnering with China to develop MSR reactors over there. Expect China to lead the way in this technology and sell it back to us.
The ability for it to use the stockpiles of nuclear waste as fuel is intriguing.

http://www.zmescience.com/ecology/what-is-molten-salt-reactor-424343/

I read something about these 10-12 years ago when I was at Argonne National lab for a class. Seemed almost too good to be true.

Just consider that the US reactor fleet is old. As in the have an average age of 34 yrs. Think about how much better a 2015 car is vs. a 1981 car. There are new & better designs. They should be used. MSR & PBR are the future.

 

[Free_Salato_Blue]

There needs to be more multi-national research then for the MSR tech.
Especially concerning emerging proliferation of nuclear powers like Iran, this would be a safer and potentially less hostile alternative. Correct?
But that's my novice opinion.

 

[Xception]

If we used nuclear power for the majority of our needs would it be cheaper electric or about the same ?

 

[UKGrad93]

If we used nuclear power for the majority of our needs would it be cheaper electric or about the same ?

Depends a lot on whether we listen to science & fact or the not in my backyard faction.

 

[Xception]

Well what does science & fact say , is it cheaper or the same ? Of course they will say it's cheaper but by a little or significantly cheaper .

 

[Deeeefense]

Well what does science & fact say , is it cheaper or the same ? Of course they will say it's cheaper but by a little or significantly cheaper .

It really depends on what kind of nuclear plant you are talking about. In the case of Watts Bar it was 80% substantially completed by the late 1980s. The costs of plant construction back then where exponentially less than they would be today. The cost of power production from this plant even fully capitalizing it over say a 40 year life span would be much less than comparable power production from a coal fired steam plant but if you were starting a new plant today that would not be the case. For many reasons including more stringent construction standards the cost would be more than other alternative methods which of course is why there has no new project authorizations in the US for decades.

 

[RacerX.ksr]

There are several plants that have been authorized in the last decade. Something like 14 units at 9 different sites.

The cost for fuel is much cheaper for nuclear compared to coal. Costs more to build a nuke and a hell of a lot more to dispose of the waste. Add in the cost of decommissioning a nuke and it is still cheaper by quite a bit.

One pound of Uranium has the energy of 20,000 pounds of coal.

 

[Chuckinden]

Unless we find a way to harness the sun's power, nuclear is the best and most reliable option.

 

[Xception]

Maybe one day we will contain the fusion process .

 

[Bill Derington]

It really depends on what kind of nuclear plant you are talking about. In the case of Watts Bar it was 80% substantially completed by the late 1980s. The costs of plant construction back then where exponentially less than they would be today. The cost of power production from this plant even fully capitalizing it over say a 40 year life span would be much less than comparable power production from a coal fired steam plant but if you were starting a new plant today that would not be the case. For many reasons including more stringent construction standards the cost would be more than other alternative methods which of course is why there has no new project authorizations in the US for decades.

Like Defense wrote, Watts Bar 2 was already there, it just had to be retrofitted and finished.
The catch is that it still cost over $6 billion to pick up where they left off and complete.

A new install from ground up might be cheaper, I don't know. The licensing would probably be more difficult though.

 

[RacerX.ksr]

There were dynamics at play in the Watts Bar scenario that are not common to most construction projects. I won't get into it much more than to say, the people that lived there were the people that were employed to build the project. When and IF it was completed, they were out of a job.

It wasn't completed until a full work force of contractors was brought in. Contractors built every nuke in America except for the TVA plants. Guess which ones cost astronomically more than the others?

 

[Deeeefense]

There were dynamics at play in the Watts Bar scenario that are not common to most construction projects. I won't get into it much more than to say, the people that lived there were the people that were employed to build the project. When and IF it was completed, they were out of a job.

It wasn't completed until a full work force of contractors was brought in. Contractors built every nuke in America except for the TVA plants. Guess which ones cost astronomically more than the others?

But are you comparing "PRE TMI" plants to "POST TMI" plants? As I'm sure you know the cost of plants went up astronomically after that event and effected every TVA plant except Browns Ferry & Sequoyah which came in fairly close to budget. Also a large portion of TVA plants were built by contractors in addition to TVA employees.

 

[RacerX.ksr]

There were a few contractors, but the majority of the workforce was local. Marvin Runyon came in and started cutting dead weight and replacing them with people that would actually work and earn the money they were being paid. Were you one of the people that were "riffed".

 

[Teachable Moe]

The building of nuclear reactors and power plants died because they are too damn expensive for private enterprise. You want to tie up many many billions in your capital with no return on it for around 20 years? Who does that? The alternatives are to have the gov't pony up the $$ and then let private companies purchase the completed plant or have a quasi-gov't agency do the whole shebang. The way they do in France. Both are anathema to the right wing. And as a practical matter we still have no reliable nuclear waste disposal procedures in place. There are practical, workable means and sites but NIMBY is a potent political prod. (I favor vitrifying the waste on site with subsequent shipment for burial in the salt deposits of the southwest. But in a world where Texans had a conniption fit over a training exercise, I don't see that happening.)

 

[Deeeefense]

There were a few contractors, but the majority of the workforce was local. Marvin Runyon came in and started cutting dead weight and replacing them with people that would actually work and earn the money they were being paid. Were you one of the people that were "riffed".

No I left on my own terms to start my first biz but I could see the writing on the wall. I can tell you I had one contract for the insulation of all the primary duct for both units, it was approx. $13 Million dollar contract. After TMI and the new seismic requirements were put in they had to go back and redo a huge portion of the work and the contract nearly doubled.

 

[Bill Derington]

There were a few contractors, but the majority of the workforce was local. Marvin Runyon came in and started cutting dead weight and replacing them with people that would actually work and earn the money they were being paid. Were you one of the people that were "riffed".

Carvin Marvin didn't Riff local contractors at the nuke plants because they weren't working. TVA had several Nuke plants under construction, due to budget and more importantly the nationwide scare after 3 mile island they started scaling back, and finally abandoned more plants until recently.

Contractors don't get riffed in TVA, full time annual employees of TVA do. That's what Runyon did across all of TVA. Went from 26000 employees down to 13000.
This was also the same time frame that TVA stopped getting money budgeted from the Federal Govt.

 

[RacerX.ksr]

I didn't mean to infer Runyon cut contractors. Contracting force increased under his watch.

 

[Bill Derington]

I didn't mean to infer Runyon cut contractors. Contracting force increased under his watch.

It did because he cut permanent employees, but the work still had to get done.
My point was Watts Bar wasn't held up due to contractors. It was held up due to changing regulations while it was being built. The govt knee jerked after three mile island and basically made it impossible to build a nuke plant.

TVA also stopped Phipps Bend, Hartsville, and Yellow river nuclear plants after construction was underway. Didn't have anything to do with the workers.

 

[Deeeefense]

It did because he cut permanent employees, but the work still had to get done.
My point was Watts Bar wasn't held up due to contractors. It was held up due to changing regulations while it was being built. The govt knee jerked after three mile island and basically made it impossible to build a nuke plant.

TVA also stopped Phipps Bend, Hartsville, and Yellow river nuclear plants after construction was underway. Didn't have anything to do with the workers.

The deferral/cancellations were also due to the initial load demand forcasts for the out years made back in the late 1960s when these project were authorized, which turned out to be way too high. Oddly that had a lot to do with TVA's insulation and energy efficiency programs.

 

[RacerX.ksr]

Bill, you are frying my brain. I said that permanent employees were replaced by contractors at that time. I was at Watts Bar when it was shut down. I know of several things that were going on at the time and know full well about the dynamics of how contractors were viewed.

There was no single reason the nukes were put on hold for so long. As Defense hit on, the demand for electricity did not continue to grow at the rate that was anticipated. The extreme cost of construction was no longer acceptable. Increased standards that lead to retrofits were costs that had not been planned on.

I never once said that construction was held up by contractors.

 

[Bill Derington]

Bill, you are frying my brain. I said that permanent employees were replaced by contractors at that time. I was at Watts Bar when it was shut down. I know of several things that were going on at the time and know full well about the dynamics of how contractors were viewed.

There was no single reason the nukes were put on hold for so long. As Defense hit on, the demand for electricity did not continue to grow at the rate that was anticipated. The extreme cost of construction was no longer acceptable. Increased standards that lead to retrofits were costs that had not been planned on.

I never once said that construction was held up by contractors.

Ymmot, The main reason they got put on hold was expense and the national climate after TMI. TVA got in the hole 30 Billion dollars building Nukes, of which they're still climbing out of it.

Lack of demand wasn't the reason, as the plan was to shutdown the older coal plants, and replace with Nukes.

I still don't understand your original post, local people were building Watts Bar that weren't contractors, so I'm assuming they were permanent TVA employees, yet they were going to be out of a job once it was finished? I work for TVA, that doesn't happen with annual employees.

 

[RacerX.ksr]

OK, now I understand. There were a lot of locals that were "permanent" whose jobs would not be required after construction was complete. As you know, it doesn't take nearly as many people to run a plant as it does to build one.

There was a lot of sabotage going on at that time. Plant equipment was being damaged, documentation was being lost, and the overall quality of work was substandard for the industry.

Lack of demand was a major reason nukes were stopped. The demand did not keep growing as was anticipated. There was no single reason, as I said earlier, but Watts Bar was a different animal than any of the other 23 nukes I've worked at in America. I blame it on ridge runner syndrome.