Fitz to Michigan State

[Baz = Heisman]

Fitz is a clown who refused to modernize his approach (outside of being more aggressive on fourth down as the years went by) and couldn’t recruit a real QB in nearly a decade (last one was Thorson).

Also, the NIL discussion will be moot once the House settlement fully kicks in and the “salary cap” (feels just gross to say) is put in place.

Finally, the type of kids that MSU generally recruits are NOT high character, academically driven kids. They often times have sketchy pasts and are very minimum qualifiers. Good luck making that work with Fitz’s background. Lol.

 

[Sheffielder]

Obviously there won't be anywhere close to 100% overlap between the recruiting pools but I think you guys are fooling yourselves thinking that Fitz won't be recruiting at the same high schools and competing with us on 5-10 recruits every year. If he is successful in snagging 2-4 guys who otherwise would have landed at NU, that will have a meaningfully detrimental impact on NU's football program. NU's margin for error has always been very small and I don't anticipate that will change anytime soon. Losing out on a couple of players in each class could very well mean the difference between a program that wins 4-5 games every year vs. 7-9 games every year.

I was being snarky but yes, I agree with you that he will take a bite out of our recruiting ground. However, I think Bielema has already done that and made Illinois a serious player in the past three years where he predecessors never really did since the Zook era.

 

[corbi296]

I was being snarky but yes, I agree with you that he will take a bite out of our recruiting ground. However, I think Bielema has already done that and made Illinois a serious player in the past three years where he predecessors never really did since the Zook era.

No doubt that Bielema has hurt us post Fitz debacle and that's why we are even more vulnerable to further backsliding on the recruiting front.

 

[Sheffielder]

No doubt that Bielema has hurt us post Fitz debacle and that's why we are even more vulnerable to further backsliding on the recruiting front.

I still think it's important to acknowledge the whole recruiting game has fundamentally changed since Fitz was last visiting high schools and recruits' homes. Even the coaches with whom Fitz has built relationships over 10-20 years now have to ask what a kid can expect to be paid out of the gate or once they establish themselves. It adds a whole new dimension to the process where Fitz is starting three years behind, and I suspect he still resents the hell out of NIL ("sorry, I'm just old school..."). This goes back to previous conversations we've had about nice locker rooms and sweet-talking coaches no longer carry the weight they once did.

The other problem that both Northwestern and Sparty face - most kids getting recruited right now have gone through their entire high school careers never seeing either program as a winner.

 

[Catmandoo78]

This mindset drives me nuts. Some of you guys continue to think NU does not have very good athletes. Every time I read the game thread and see someone chalking up our struggles to our guys aren't fast enough, it just makes me realize that the average fan has no clue what he is watching. Outside of a handful of blue blood programs that attract a handful of true unicorn recruits each year, NU's top players stack up well to the rest of the P2 programs from an athleticism standpoint. NU's problem usually is a lack of depth which is key in a game of attrition like Football. NU doesn't need better athletes, they need more of the athletes they have.

Data sort of backs this up. Admittedly, the “team talent rankings” are flawed because they are based upon recruiting and transfer rankings. But they are at least a useful data point to look at how talented your team is (generally speaking) vs your conference peers. And then you can sort of compare talent ranking to in game results and get a feel for how well your staff identifies and develops talent.

If you look at the talent index, NU is third to last but it’s in a tight cluster with several other schools (IU, Illinois, Rutgers, Purdue). So if you generally think that means we have approximately the same level of talent as those schools, you can draw some interesting conclusions. IU is MASSIVELY outperforming their talent; Illinois is less slightly less talented (although by a statistically insignificant margin) than NU but has beat us 4 of the last 5 meetings and has generally outperformed our program since 2021; we need to reverse that trend, especially with Bert about to sign the best class they’ve had in many years. Purdue is ranked above us but they stink; call that the Walters affect + a new coach who had to take 60 new players to fill his roster

https://247sports.com/season/2025-football/collegeteamtalentcomposite/?Conference=Big%20Ten

 

[Sheffielder]

Officially offical. Five year deal.

 

[eddie_gocats]

Based on ON3 MSU board, they seem pretty happy with the hire

 

[eddie_gocats]

Officially offical. Five year deal.

 

[AdamOnFirst]

Data sort of backs this up. Admittedly, the “team talent rankings” are flawed because they are based upon recruiting and transfer rankings. But they are at least a useful data point to look at how talented your team is (generally speaking) vs your conference peers. And then you can sort of compare talent ranking to in game results and get a feel for how well your staff identifies and develops talent.

If you look at the talent index, NU is third to last but it’s in a tight cluster with several other schools (IU, Illinois, Rutgers, Purdue). So if you generally think that means we have approximately the same level of talent as those schools, you can draw some interesting conclusions. IU is MASSIVELY outperforming their talent; Illinois is less slightly less talented (although by a statistically insignificant margin) than NU but has beat us 4 of the last 5 meetings and has generally outperformed our program since 2021; we need to reverse that trend, especially with Bert about to sign the best class they’ve had in many years. Purdue is ranked above us but they stink; call that the Walters affect + a new coach who had to take 60 new players to fill his roster

https://247sports.com/season/2025-football/collegeteamtalentcomposite/?Conference=Big%20Ten

Agreed. We have obviously substantially below average athletic talent, especially on offense. Defense we’ve held serve, but I fear that’s slowly changing.

 

[Sheffielder]

^ ^ some interesting perspectives here, including speculation of a $400M booster donation that was contingent on Fitz's hire(?)

 

[AdamOnFirst]

I still think it's important to acknowledge the whole recruiting game has fundamentally changed since Fitz was last visiting high schools and recruits' homes. Even the coaches with whom Fitz has built relationships over 10-20 years now have to ask what a kid can expect to be paid out of the gate or once they establish themselves. It adds a whole new dimension to the process where Fitz is starting three years behind, and I suspect he still resents the hell out of NIL ("sorry, I'm just old school..."). This goes back to previous conversations we've had about nice locker rooms and sweet-talking coaches no longer carry the weight they once did.

The other problem that both Northwestern and Sparty face - most kids getting recruited right now have gone through their entire high school careers never seeing either program as a winner.

While all that is true and I generally think MSU Fitz isn’t all that likely to bump up into the same kind of kids as NU and he’ll be spending more time east of us than he did before… having a guy with close relationships and a high reputation in all our key locally targeted areas makes it inevitable we’re going to bump into him some, even in an NIL driven recruiting world.

 

[AdamOnFirst]

My last real thoughts on Fitz: other than the money situation, which is the single largest factor in today’s CFB, period, the biggest pivot point for Fitz IMO is gonna be assistants. Does he hire good ones? Does the MSU AD put him on a tight leash hiring bad ones? They really really ought to reserve the ability to tell him to fire struggling assistants if he demonstrates his old stubbornness that was his fatal flaw. Does he hire an OC who actually wants to come and score points and be modern and let them cook? To me these are huge questions.

The range of outcomes here is honestly massive, he could go 2-10 or 10-2 2-3 years from now and I wouldn’t be shocked either way TBH.

 

[NU'06er]

Three points:

1. I'm curious how many people would take the over versus the under on 1.5 wins for Fitz AGAINST Northwestern at Michigan State. On the one hand, he could win that bet in 2 years if things break right for him. On the other, if he doesn't, MSU might not cycle back onto NU's schedule until 2030 (if the B1G just loops the same 4-year conference schedule it's currently running), and he may never get to game three versus NU (especially if he's .500 or worse against the likes of Northwestern).

2. I'm curious what fan expectations will be at Michigan State for Fitz entering Year 2. He'll get some grace Year 1 for inheriting a 3-9 team. But the median Dantonio year was 9-4 (6-2). That's gonna be a hard pace to keep if Sparty sees that as the goal despite 5 wins being median or above for the other 4 of the last 5 coaches in East Lansing (who were all then run out of town).

3. I'm curious whether Fitz has the capacity for re-invention he's going to need for a successful second act. He'll certainly have better opportunity to recruit there than here, but his offenses have to get more modern if it's gonna work there. The way he's talked since leaving NU doesn't sound like someone who is excited to debut "Fitz 2.0" and show what he's learned from time away to examine his prior tenure, but like someone ready to try to prove that Fitz 1.0 was right all along (futile as trying to prove that via a totally unrelated new gig is).

 

[AdamOnFirst]

Three points:

1. I'm curious how many people would take the over versus the under on 1.5 wins for Fitz AGAINST Northwestern at Michigan State. On the one hand, he could win that bet in 2 years if things break right for him. On the other, if he doesn't, MSU might not cycle back onto NU's schedule until 2030 (if the B1G just loops the same 4-year conference schedule it's currently running), and he may never get to game three versus NU (especially if he's .500 or worse against the likes of Northwestern).

2. I'm curious what fan expectations will be at Michigan State for Fitz entering Year 2. He'll get some grace Year 1 for inheriting a 3-9 team. But the median Dantonio year was 9-4 (6-2). That's gonna be a hard pace to keep if Sparty sees that as the goal despite 5 wins being median or above for the other 4 of the last 5 coaches in East Lansing (who were all then run out of town).

3. I'm curious whether Fitz has the capacity for re-invention he's going to need for a successful second act. He'll certainly have better opportunity to recruit there than here, but his offenses have to get more modern if it's gonna work there. The way he's talked since leaving NU doesn't sound like someone who is excited to debut "Fitz 2.0" and show what he's learned from time away to examine his prior tenure, but like someone ready to try to prove that Fitz 1.0 was right all along (futile as trying to prove that via a totally unrelated new gig is).

On 2, if Fitz, or any MSU coach, is held to the Dantonio standard they’re gonna have a hard hard time succeeding and MSU is gonna go through a lot of coaches. He represented the halcyon days of MSU, that is Therese a program stuck in a tough spot with far bigger and better rivals on all corners. I don’t think MSU fans have that expectation TBH, they just want to be competitive and dangerous again.

On 3… agreed, his OC hire will be extremely interesting. This is just gonna be super interesting in general

 

[TheC]

3. I'm curious whether Fitz has the capacity for re-invention he's going to need for a successful second act. He'll certainly have better opportunity to recruit there than here, but his offenses have to get more modern if it's gonna work there. The way he's talked since leaving NU doesn't sound like someone who is excited to debut "Fitz 2.0" and show what he's learned from time away to examine his prior tenure, but like someone ready to try to prove that Fitz 1.0 was right all along (futile as trying to prove that via a totally unrelated new gig is).

I am most curious about point #3 here as well. I just have a hard time believing Fitz will modernize his offensive philosophy until I see it. I don't think MSU fans will stand for Iowa-ball. They are used to dynamic, exciting offensive talent that puts up points when things are going well. Maybe this whole experience with the scandal and firing have unleashed the bad boy Fitz and he'll ditch this faux boy scout persona he had at NU.

MSU fans will expect a wide open passing game that pushes the ball downfield. MSU fans will expect that if there are 6 minutes left on the clock and you're nursing a lead, that you will go score more points and not just hand off 20 times in a row. MSU fans will expect that if their team can put up 60+ points on an opponent and win by 50+, then they will go do it. I just have a hard time seeing Fitz change his stripes, but it will be fascinating to watch.

 

[Sheffielder]

I am most curious about point #3 here as well. I just have a hard time believing Fitz will modernize his offensive philosophy until I see it. I don't think MSU fans will stand for Iowa-ball. They are used to dynamic, exciting offensive talent that puts up points when things are going well. Maybe this whole experience with the scandal and firing have unleashed the bad boy Fitz and he'll ditch this faux boy scout persona he had at NU.

MSU fans will expect a wide open passing game that pushes the ball downfield. MSU fans will expect that if there are 6 minutes left on the clock and you're nursing a lead, that you will go score more points and not just hand off 20 times in a row. MSU fans will expect that if their team can put up 60+ points on an opponent and win by 50+, then they will go do it. I just have a hard time seeing Fitz change his stripes, but it will be fascinating to watch.

I think you are giving MSU fans too much credit.

Apart from the Dantonio years, MSU is far from having a discerning football palate. If Fitz delivers a couple of eight-win seasons and they never score more than 14 points per win, no one will complain.

 

[katatonic2]

Based on ON3 MSU board, they seem pretty happy with the hire

Ignorance is bliss...

Guess at this stage, they'd be happy with being another Iowa.

 

[NU'06er]

Apart from the Dantonio years, MSU is far from having a discerning football palate.

I think that's the question re: my second point. Are MSU fans capable of calling something less than Dantonio success when they've run all the recent alternatives out of town? I think they might be, but it's gonna have to be closer to Dantonio's 9 win median performance than the alternatives 5 win performance. Agree with you that 8 wins regularly is probably enough. Is 7? Is going 6-6 regularly going to get stale there?

 

[katatonic2]

Agree; Franklin and Fitz are both great "head of program" guys. They're great football CEOs as coaches. They have good reputations with players. I think Fitz also got good at decision making in game generally.

Of course, where things went wrong for Fitz in a bunch of the later years was assistant hirings and things like that which include smaller details.

And the leash at a place like MSU will be very short. It's not like NU where he could go through rebuild years without really worrying about his seat getting hot.

I'd say that Fitz and Franklin are both very good at being the face/talking head of a program, rather than being great CEOs, as the major part of being a great CEO-type HC is making the right hires on the coaching staff, particularly the coordinators - something that both struggled with.

Also, both struggled with making adjustments and in game management, key for CEO-type HCs.

 

[Ilvolino]

LOL, you are fooling yourself if you believe that. Fitz will go after the high academic kids who are good football players because they have demonstrated the discipline, work ethic and determination to succeed at multiple things in life. You win with those type of guys. Just because his pool of potential recruits will be larger, don't illude yourself into thinking that Fitz won't be competing against us for th high academic recruits.

Those type of players are not going to MSU. They will have numerous other choices far better than East Lansing and nothing Fitz can do will change that

 

[Fanaticat98]

He's selling a different car now than he was a few years ago.

Absolutely no doubt Fitz will take a bite out of recruiting the region - he's probably got a very good track record of coaches who sent kids who had positive experience playing for him...unless they were among those who were hazed when he had no idea any of that was happening, but hey don't let that stand in your way of playing at the little brother school in Michigan where you can get a general studies degree in five years.

Oh man, the little brother thing. As an NU alum Michigan resident (but a transplant without any family affinities) it was surprising to find out how much more elitist U Mich people are than NU. I personally think for undergrad, U Mich is overrated given the size of the school and classes. In some ways though it doesn’t matter; if a huge school builds a reputation even if it’s not necessarily for undergrad education quality, those undergrads will get good jobs based on the rep and large alumni network.

That being said, MSU is not a second rate “general studies” school. It has a higher overall ranking in US News than IU, Iowa, Oregon and Nebraska among B1G peers.

I am most curious about point #3 here as well. I just have a hard time believing Fitz will modernize his offensive philosophy until I see it. I don't think MSU fans will stand for Iowa-ball. They are used to dynamic, exciting offensive talent that puts up points when things are going well. Maybe this whole experience with the scandal and firing have unleashed the bad boy Fitz and he'll ditch this faux boy scout persona he had at NU.

MSU fans will expect a wide open passing game that pushes the ball downfield. MSU fans will expect that if there are 6 minutes left on the clock and you're nursing a lead, that you will go score more points and not just hand off 20 times in a row. MSU fans will expect that if their team can put up 60+ points on an opponent and win by 50+, then they will go do it. I just have a hard time seeing Fitz change his stripes, but it will be fascinating to watch.

Is there a grain of possibility that Fitz adopted the offense/defense philosophy that he did because he felt that was the way to consistent success specifically with NU’s recruiting restrictions? That if he goes to MSU he will be fine hiring and giving reins to a high flying OC if he has his pick of players now? Certainly Fitz has had time to study the radical changes in the last couple years from the outside and is now keenly aware of the reality.

I think Fitz will be less likely to “negatively” recruit against NU because he’d be denigrating his own legacy and his own education as well as (for now) some of the coaches he hired. I do think he’ll do his best to target the top 5-6 Chicago area kids every year.

 

[katatonic2]

Fitz is a clown who refused to modernize his approach (outside of being more aggressive on fourth down as the years went by) and couldn’t recruit a real QB in nearly a decade (last one was Thorson).

For someone who liked to say that "stats are for losers," Fitz started to go for it on 4th down, including on the Cats' side of the field, when the stats represent an aggregate of all teams and not one repeatedly fielding a below average O-line.

Speaking of the O-line, Braun managed to field (at the very least) an average O-line in just his 2nd year.

 

[kaTNap]

This mindset drives me nuts. Some of you guys continue to think NU does not have very good athletes. Every time I read the game thread and see someone chalking up our struggles to our guys aren't fast enough, it just makes me realize that the average fan has no clue what he is watching. Outside of a handful of blue blood programs that attract a handful of true unicorn recruits each year, NU's top players stack up well to the rest of the P2 programs from an athleticism standpoint. NU's problem usually is a lack of depth which is key in a game of attrition like Football. NU doesn't need better athletes, they need more of the athletes they have.

Quantity and quality are two sides of the same coin. Doesn't change what I'm saying, he won't be able to get everything he needs by just concentrating on the kind of smart, motivated, Chicago Catholic League kids who were his bread-and-butter at NU.

And to last at MSU, he will need some of those "true unicorn recruits" that blue blood programs recruit. MSU really does want to be Alabama.

 

[corbi296]

Quantity and quality are two sides of the same coin. Doesn't change what I'm saying, he won't be able to get everything he needs by just concentrating on the kind of smart, motivated, Chicago Catholic League kids who were his bread-and-butter at NU.

And to last at MSU, he will need some of those "true unicorn recruits" that blue blood programs recruit. MSU really does want to be Alabama.

Those kids will represent the foundational core of his teams. He'll need to supplement those kids with a couple of elite players every year. He'll have a much easier time landing those guys at MSU from a bigger pool of talent to target with a big NIL checkbook and much looser admission requirements. I foresee lots of success for Fitz if they give him 2-3 years to build the foundation.

 

[freewillie07]

Those kids will represent the foundational core of his teams. He'll need to supplement those kids with a couple of elite players every year. He'll have a much easier time landing those guys at MSU from a bigger pool of talent to target with a big NIL checkbook and much looser admission requirements. I foresee lots of success for Fitz if they give him 2-3 years to build the foundation.

You think they’ll give three years to build the foundation??? Lol

 

[corbi296]

You think they’ll give three years to build the foundation??? Lol

First of all I said 2-3 years to build a foundation and yes, I think they will give him that long. Secondly, what exactly do you think that means? It won’t take him three years to win. It will take him three years to build a foundation that will lead to sustainable, long term success.

 

[Baz = Heisman]

MSU better get ready for 4-8 seasons and a 1996 offense. Fitz is a washed rock head.

 

[corbi296]

MSU better get ready for 4-8 seasons and a 1996 offense. Fitz is a washed rock head

All the clueless Fitz haters will be eating their words. Remember these posts.

 

[Catmandoo78]

All the clueless Fitz haters will be eating their words. Remember these posts.

Fitz isn’t coaching NU anymore, and in fact he’s going to be on a mission to bury us every chance he gets.

You don’t have to lick his boots anymore.

 

[Bwm57]

Congratulations to Fitz!

 

[corbi296]

Fitz isn’t coaching NU anymore, and in fact he’s going to be on a mission to bury us every chance he gets.

You don’t have to lick his boots anymore.

Frick off. I respect the way the man goes about his business. That does not stop because NU was dumb enough to let him slip through their fingers. MSU is now my 2nd favorite team.

 

[jne381]

Oh man, the little brother thing. As an NU alum Michigan resident (but a transplant without any family affinities) it was surprising to find out how much more elitist U Mich people are than NU. I personally think for undergrad, U Mich is overrated given the size of the school and classes. In some ways though it doesn’t matter; if a huge school builds a reputation even if it’s not necessarily for undergrad education quality, those undergrads will get good jobs based on the rep and large alumni network.

That being said, MSU is not a second rate “general studies” school. It has a higher overall ranking in US News than IU, Iowa, Oregon and Nebraska among B1G peers.

This analysis is sound.

 

[NU'06er]

All the clueless Fitz haters will be eating their words. Remember these posts.

Fitz isn’t coaching NU anymore, and in fact he’s going to be on a mission to bury us every chance he gets.

You don’t have to lick his boots anymore.

So I ask again... over or under 1.5 victories by Fitz against his former school?

 

[Fanaticat98]

And now Fitz can have his own Taj Fitz. Looks like a very smart move by Fitz to join MSU at this point.

 

[DaCat]

MSU is a very strong platform for Fitz. Now that the admissions shackles are off, he can go head to head with the blue bloods for top recruits, and he will land several. The MSU base is hungry after many lean years post-Dantonio. They will measure success by how many times Fitz beats UM, not NU (Dantonio beat UM 8 times in 13 years). Fitz has his work cut out for him, and I think he will be successful.

 

[NU'06er]

They will measure success by how many times Fitz beats UM, not NU

Don't bring up Brady Hoke then!

 

[AdamOnFirst]

MSU is a very strong platform for Fitz. Now that the admissions shackles are off, he can go head to head with the blue bloods for top recruits, and he will land several. The MSU base is hungry after many lean years post-Dantonio. They will measure success by how many times Fitz beats UM, not NU (Dantonio beat UM 8 times in 13 years). Fitz has his work cut out for him, and I think he will be successful.

These post Dantonio years aren’t “lean years,” they’re a return to their historic baseline. Dantonio was a golden era

 

[zeek55]

The problem that the Big Ten schools that were used to being in the "upper middle class" of the conference (i.e. Wisconsin, Iowa, Michigan State) have is that we added some high spending programs with brands (USC and Oregon especially but also Washington), while the lower schools are also trying to spend and be competitive.

So they're getting squeezed from above and below.