Do you guys think it's Mitch not football first or the powers that be that pull the strings and donate? I believe boosters and donors care more about basketball than football. Point being is when was the last time before he died did RJ Corman fly a football coach into his private airfield or fly him city to city on a state tour or train him around on a city to city tour.
Football first AD
- Thread starter catfan111
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Let's look at this from a standpoint of logic.
Mitch has done extremely well with virtually every sport under the UK umbrella......except football. He's won "AD of the Yr" awards.....massive funding......expansion projects everywhere.....etc. Is is logical that he would purposely neglect the #1 sport in the nation? That he would purposely neglect the #1 possible money generator?
It is extremely likely that the problem lay elsewhere.
Mitch has done extremely well with virtually every sport under the UK umbrella......except football. He's won "AD of the Yr" awards.....massive funding......expansion projects everywhere.....etc. Is is logical that he would purposely neglect the #1 sport in the nation? That he would purposely neglect the #1 possible money generator?
It is extremely likely that the problem lay elsewhere.
It's not as easy as that. The guys that put Mitch in at AD absolutely love how things are going. Almost every sport is sky-high, funding an expansion is sky-high, APR's and accolades are sky-high, the basketball program is on cloud-9......and they don't care that the football program is treading water. The AD's job is to gather together resources to improve the status of the entire athletic department. So, Mitch, who is responsible can try as hard as he can to change that problem, but if the support isn't there then there's not much he can do about it. And the powers aren't going to fire him b/c in their eyes he's done well.
I've made this point before. Barnhart "grew up" in college athletics administration at Tennessee in the 1980s and 1990s. He then went to be AD at Oregon State. During his time at UT and OSU, the Vols won a national title and were a fixture in the AP Top 10 in football, and the Beavers hired Dennis Erickson and played in its first Big 4 Bowl (I think they trashed Notre Dame if memory serves). The point is, everything about Barnhart at the time of the hire screamed "football guy". The basketball only fans were openly complaining that he wasn't a basketball guy, and worrying that it might somehow mean a lessening of that sport's dominance at UK.
Think of it this way - if the AD at Kansas suddenly was hired to be AD at Notre Dame, would anyone worry that ND football was about to go in the toilet, and that ND basketball might suddenly become elite?
Think of it this way - if the AD at Kansas suddenly was hired to be AD at Notre Dame, would anyone worry that ND football was about to go in the toilet, and that ND basketball might suddenly become elite?
After 65 years of failure, the more likely scenario is that it can't be fixed. Too many obstacles to realistically make serious advances in the SEC (without cheating). Geography, lack of in-state talent, history and recruit's perception that UK is a basketball-first school probably combine to make an insurmountable barrier.
That is pretty much the way I remember it. (And good example with the Kansas AD to ND analogy).
Sure Mitch made a bad football hire (Joker) and more recently inked a pretty dumb contract extension (i.e., buyout provisions) with CMS. But he gets vilified the most for taking so long to improve the football infrastructure. On that point, I and several others have tried, on numerous occasions, to "explain" that such expenditures were out of his control unless he could raise all the money privately. The CWS expansion more or less coincided with UK paying off some older bonds thus creating "headspace" for new debt.
FWIW, when MB came on board fund raising for the Craft Center was wayyy behind and the whole project ended up being years behind schedule. But the private money for the new training complex seemingly came out of nowhere in a relative heartbeat.
Peace
This refrain is getting old. Mitch has his detractors on hires or lack of hires etc.. Billy G. Joker etc..
He has been a guy who has put more effort into FB than all the other 3 decade old AD's and he has done a ton.
He has from all reports made it a priority to get FB right, he has given Stoops unlimited budget on staff, recruiting money, travel. You can believe it if you want. I had someone tell me that he spends almost every waking moment wanting this program to be sustainable and competitive, I have heard from people who he has spoken to.
I mean 200 million for upgrades, Stoops has free run on coaches, this excuse is not valid and has not been since Mitch has been here. He has made mistakes.
I would love to see Mitch put an end to the total BS waste of the campout at Midnight Madness. Usually our swoon takes place about this time, realize we are playing better teams but you can read player quotes, past quotes from players etc. that this drives them crazy, FB players say yeah guys lined up for month won't put 45,000 to watch UK play EKU. It is bad precedent and I hate it. It sets up a terrible look for the FB team.
Camping out for BB practice, ridiculous. Maybe let them camp out week before.
Just looks awful.
IMO
He has been a guy who has put more effort into FB than all the other 3 decade old AD's and he has done a ton.
He has from all reports made it a priority to get FB right, he has given Stoops unlimited budget on staff, recruiting money, travel. You can believe it if you want. I had someone tell me that he spends almost every waking moment wanting this program to be sustainable and competitive, I have heard from people who he has spoken to.
I mean 200 million for upgrades, Stoops has free run on coaches, this excuse is not valid and has not been since Mitch has been here. He has made mistakes.
I would love to see Mitch put an end to the total BS waste of the campout at Midnight Madness. Usually our swoon takes place about this time, realize we are playing better teams but you can read player quotes, past quotes from players etc. that this drives them crazy, FB players say yeah guys lined up for month won't put 45,000 to watch UK play EKU. It is bad precedent and I hate it. It sets up a terrible look for the FB team.
Camping out for BB practice, ridiculous. Maybe let them camp out week before.
Just looks awful.
IMO
My mistake. I was under the impression the AD was responsible for wining and dining boosters and helping steer their money towards revenue generating sports.
I've thought about things for a few weeks and this is my mindset as well...it appears now that $$$ is available for football where it never was and we all know Rome wasn't built in a day. Also, recruiting is better now than most of us have ever seen so the future is bright there...
However, the one sick feeling I cannot shake is that something derailed this team mid stream and I think we can pin point it after an SEC victory over at team that at the time, was decent and the reigning 2 year east champs. What could possibly have happened to a team where the players couldn't be satisfied with of all things, winning an SEC game??? What caused the division which made it appear that our coaches all of a sudden forgot how to coach? Never thought I'd say this but it seems throwing $$$ at UK football now is easier then keeping your team together in the locker room...
That's why it's not an easy answer. Boosters will only direct the money where they want it to go. And who wants to dump money into a football program that has produced junk for the last 60+ yrs and could possibly steal a little thunder away from the beloved basketball program.
I think those that control the purse strings which goes well beyond MB have provided as much as they possible can and to be honest about as much as we should need for now. The problem right now isn't that we need a bigger stadium, or a larger recruiting budget, the problem is we need more Ws on the scoreboard.
Trying to apply criticism for lack of success back to MB is misplaced criticism IMO.
Trying to apply criticism for lack of success back to MB is misplaced criticism IMO.
I tend to agree that SOMETHING happened to divide the team. I have no idea what it was, but something did seem to change. If that's the case, then maybe the coaching staff waited too long to try and fix it or went about it the wrong way. Or maybe it was simply a divide that was building for a while and finally boiled over, sending the season into a tailspin. No matter what happened, let's hope that both players and coaches can get on the same page, a team leader or two can emerge, and then we can go play the football we were playing largely in the first part of this season and see what happens.
In fact, even though I'm not entirely sold with Mitch, I do remember Joker saying that he had all the money that he needed, he just didn't ask for more which was a big mistake in my opinion if it was truly there.
I guess that depends on where you think "that problem" exists doesn't it?
The people elect the governor.
The governor appoints people to the BoT.
The BoT hires the president of the university.
The president hires the AD.
The AD hires the HC.
The HC hires his assistants.
If the problem exists above the level of AD...which given that none of the other ADs that preceded the current AD over the last 60 years have been able to make much of a difference would lead one to think that might be the case then you would have to look up the chain of command.
^Freakin' Matt Bevin. It's his fault. He's been in the office for a day-and-a-half and already is ruining my favorite past-times.
Purposely neglect, no...be unwilling to figjt and do what it takes to make things improve, yes. Ky football is such an uphill battle its gonna take someone who demands things get done...a real go getter...mitch just towes the line, and that line was drawn by basketball donors a long time ago.
Steve Beshear! I knew it! Thankfully Bevin ran and won on a pro-football platform! Yes!
^That's my point. I certainly don't know Mitch personally, but what you are saying is just illogical.
He seems to fight, scratch, and claw in all aspects of his job......and his life. As I mentioned, he has fought hard to improve everywhere around the athletic department. From all accounts he works 24/7 at his job......and has drawn rave reviews as a result. Heck, this is a guy who has climbed Kilimanjaro and several of the taller peaks around North America. He seems like an absolute go-getter......so to hear someone say that he's not a go-getter for football just doesn't make sense.
It very well could be true for all I know, but it seems wildly out of character.
He seems to fight, scratch, and claw in all aspects of his job......and his life. As I mentioned, he has fought hard to improve everywhere around the athletic department. From all accounts he works 24/7 at his job......and has drawn rave reviews as a result. Heck, this is a guy who has climbed Kilimanjaro and several of the taller peaks around North America. He seems like an absolute go-getter......so to hear someone say that he's not a go-getter for football just doesn't make sense.
It very well could be true for all I know, but it seems wildly out of character.
Well...BoT members are appointed to 6 yr terms so it will take a while to change the makeup of the board. A second look sees some who have 12 yr terms.
No one said he isnt trying...simply that his best effort isnt enough, whereas a more savvy AD's could be. The guy couldn't even get a simple basketball hire right at the one school that can literally pick any coach in America it wants. Gimme a break with the excuses already. It's much easier to succeed in the other non revenue sports when none of the.competition cares to really focus on them.
Show me an AD who hasn't made a bad hire and I'll show you an AD who hasn't made many hires.
As for those non-revenue sports...if nobody is trying then why the hell is UK near the bottom of the SEC in spending on those sports? Some of the schools are outspending UK 2-1.
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Yep - if Eli Capilauto (sp?) is happy with the job MB is doing, don't expect any significant changes to the status quo. 5-7 here we come!!
Billy G took over an A&M team that was horrid for decades and won well over 20 games a yr.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Texas_A&M_Aggies_men's_basketball_seasons
He took UTEP to the NCAA tourney.....winning 24 games in his 2nd yr.
He took over for Tubby (who won about 22 games/yr toward the end of his time here) and won about 20-22 games a yr.
Sure, the Billy G hire wasn't as star studded as Cal. Nor was it a collosal success.......but it's not like he went out and hired Bob the Janitor.
Except now he's dumped a huge chunk of those 'resources' onto a failing head coach, with no possibility of recouping said 'resources.'
I assumed we were having an intelligent disagreement and discussion, and then there you go defending his hire of Gillispie. I apologize. I won't waste any more of your time.
It ain't exactly over yet. Say Stoops goes to a bowl the next two years, then what will happen or what if he whiffs again next year, but goes to a bowl the next. You think he gets fired then? No...and it could "easily" happen. He has two years to make it happen.
Lol. I get it.
I certainly wouldn't have hired Billy myself. I was eyeing other guys at the time. But you make decisions based on the information that you have at that time available to you. You don't know who is going to be a sure thing as a hire or not. You basically have to process the information and make a decision. And in Billy's case, he won pretty well at 2 different places that were hard to win at. The weren't any rumors about his alcohol intake or behavior off the court. Sooo, the actual hire wasn't too bad. It was neither great nor bad. Then, of course, his time here was not great........so, hindsight is 20-20.
But it does seem that Mitch made a stellar hire the 2nd time around.
Ouch, I know, right? I know he was worried about locking Stoops up before someone stole him away, but he really jumped the gun on that one. Ouch. He's clearly made some interesting choices as AD.
Boosters had a problem even donating money to basketball when Mitch arrived. Many people got a lot of things based on connections to past adminstrators and what they or family had donated years ago in the past. Talk to Rob Mullens about the hair pulling they tried to get to get fundraising (which we ranked near the bottom of in the conference) off the ground again. It took Tubby Smith and Mitch to bring in Joe Craft to get the desperatly needed basketball practice facility done.
At any school in the SEC boosters fund football; facilities, coaching salaries, etc. Every facet of the program. Everything else is used to support all the Title IX and non-revenue sports. Things are now starting to pay off-new avenues of fundraising have finally been opened towards football. We're on a better footing overall now. All that we need are the results in Football...something every other AD has failed at. I'm not Stoops' biggest fan right now but I god damn hope he gets it right. I want to win.
At any school in the SEC boosters fund football; facilities, coaching salaries, etc. Every facet of the program. Everything else is used to support all the Title IX and non-revenue sports. Things are now starting to pay off-new avenues of fundraising have finally been opened towards football. We're on a better footing overall now. All that we need are the results in Football...something every other AD has failed at. I'm not Stoops' biggest fan right now but I god damn hope he gets it right. I want to win.
However, after he was fired I read an article by a Dallas sports writer who said that if UK had taken more time to ask some questions there were PLENTY of people in College Station who could have told them that Clyde's prickly personality was not going to be a good fit at UK. He didn't just magically turn into a complete arse hole overnight. Whose job was it to ask the questions and properly vet the candidate? Because they completely crapped the bed on that one.
^I note that you said, "after he was fired I read an article."
It's easy to say things after the fact. Besides, having been around a large amount of collegiate and professional coaches, I can honestly say that being a jerk is commonplace and doesn't really change your employment status.
Besides, the fact remains. Kentucky can probably hire a basketball coach easier than anyone. But, despite having a large pool to choose from, it doesn't mean that you have a lot of good fits or good choices. In the end, the Billy G time here didn't go well at all. The mistake was made, it was analyzed, it was terminated quickly, and the next hire was phenomenal. Mitch has made plenty of mistakes, but the way he handled things after Billy went south was good.
It's easy to say things after the fact. Besides, having been around a large amount of collegiate and professional coaches, I can honestly say that being a jerk is commonplace and doesn't really change your employment status.
Besides, the fact remains. Kentucky can probably hire a basketball coach easier than anyone. But, despite having a large pool to choose from, it doesn't mean that you have a lot of good fits or good choices. In the end, the Billy G time here didn't go well at all. The mistake was made, it was analyzed, it was terminated quickly, and the next hire was phenomenal. Mitch has made plenty of mistakes, but the way he handled things after Billy went south was good.
Billy G's behavior in a mix of alcohol and player abuse were not deal breakers at UTEP or A&M. Both schools are football first and basketball is down the list of athletic priorities. Billy won and won big at both places. No one from the administrations to the AD's cared.
I guarantee you that NO ONE wants the football program to excel more then Mitch and Stoops. Gosh, we were so excited when Mitch hired Stoops, and then we were even more thrilled when he recruited his first class. He has continued to recruit better then probably anytime in my 70 plus years following the CATS.
Has Coach Stoops lived up to expectations? Well, that depends on what your expectations are. Yes, I would have liked to win more games, but there were some injuries that played a big part in our losses, on the defensive line, and our running backs. I have NO doubt we would have beat Louisville if Boom had not been hurt. That ended our running game.
I agree Stoops made a lot of mistakes as HC during the games, but experience will take care of that. I think we will see a lot of improvement in his game management in 2016.
Will we see a lot of improvement in wins and losses? I don't know, but we will see a lot better football team. Our big question mark will be our defensive line. If they can improve, we will be a much better team.
OLD STOLL FIELD GUY1
Has Coach Stoops lived up to expectations? Well, that depends on what your expectations are. Yes, I would have liked to win more games, but there were some injuries that played a big part in our losses, on the defensive line, and our running backs. I have NO doubt we would have beat Louisville if Boom had not been hurt. That ended our running game.
I agree Stoops made a lot of mistakes as HC during the games, but experience will take care of that. I think we will see a lot of improvement in his game management in 2016.
Will we see a lot of improvement in wins and losses? I don't know, but we will see a lot better football team. Our big question mark will be our defensive line. If they can improve, we will be a much better team.
OLD STOLL FIELD GUY1
The point the writer was making is that Mitch SHOULD have known BEFORE he hired him. That was the point. Clyde's true colors were apparently no big secret in College Station. But the mistake was corrected quickly, I'll give you that. Although firing Billy Gillispie may have been the easiest decision ever made by any human being in the history of the world.