Football Success = Alumni Donations

[T_Levine]

Saw this 2012 study reference in an article about Bo Pelini and Jim Tressel. Would be interesting to see if this actually plays at Northwestern. We are one of the lowest, basically the bottom, of alumni donations in dollars and percentage of all private institutions.

A 2012 report in the National Bureau for Economic Research found that football success increases alumni donations (particularly to athletics) and helps a school's academic reputation, as well as the quality and quantity of applicants. - See more at: http://www.vindy.com/news/2015/jan/18/tressel-sought-sage-advice-before-hiring/#sthash.ZdWXdhHk.dpuf

 

[Turk_rivals223269]

why are NU alumni donations such tightwad?
I know the school is a bunch of tightwads so maybe the alum are witness to the school. I don't mean that in a bad way, being cheap has its other rewards, none of which are athletic though.

I have to assume that NU has more multi-millionaire grades than just the two grads who gave more than $10 million [Ryan and I forget the other].

Ryan can't be the only one that shoulders all of this as the lakeside facility gets scaled back or further postponed. WTH?

I'm not even a NU grad, plus I'm blue collar with modest means, but I'm in the top tier of athletic giving which I find to be incredibly odd.

 

[Sheffielder]

Originally posted by T_Levine:
We are one of the lowest, basically the bottom, of alumni donations in dollars and percentage of all private institutions.

What's your source for this? (I'm not questioning, just curious) And are you referring to overall giving or just to athletics?

If overall giving is among the lowest, then I have absolutely no guesses on why. If we're just talking about athletics, I think that question answers itself. We've had short bursts of greatness over the past 20 years and seen immediate, short-term gains in applications and giving rates, but only football is carrying the load, and never for more than a couple years at a time.

 

[its_the_sauce]

Originally posted by Sheffielder:

Originally posted by T_Levine:
We are one of the lowest, basically the bottom, of alumni donations in dollars and percentage of all private institutions.

What's your source for this? (I'm not questioning, just curious) And are you referring to overall giving or just to athletics?

If overall giving is among the lowest, then I have absolutely no guesses on why. If we're just talking about athletics, I think that question answers itself. We've had short bursts of greatness over the past 20 years and seen immediate, short-term gains in applications and giving rates, but only football is carrying the load, and never for more than a couple years at a time.

Actually I've heard this from NU in some of their appeals for money. Percentage of alumni donating is part of the measuring stick used to rank universities. NU has made it very clear we trail the Ivies and the Stanfords in this regard.

 

[T_Levine]

I don't know the exact organization or study, but I believe there is a consortium of 30 (ish) private schools that are always lumped together on various topics. Based on my exposure to the alumni association and to fundraising, I have seen data points over the years that have shown Northwestern at the bottom or second to last as far as percentage of alumni giving.

Another source, over the years, has been the US and News Rankings. I have seen it written, multiple times, that alumni giving is a major factor in their rankings and Northwestern's rank is suppressed because of this category.

If I recall, many years ago Washington University made a large jump in the rankings. While I would never question Wash U as a strong academic school, their ranking is influenced by two major factors - Medical School and Fundraising. Not to nit pick, but I find it hard to consider a university top 20 when they got rid of the sociology department about 15-20 years ago. While it may no longer be a major drawing a large number of students, almost everyone takes at least one Sociology class during four years at college.

Furthermore, talk to many of the younger NU grads. I think you will find that development has invested time and money over the past 10-15 years on getting engagement earlier and right after graduation. Even if its a $5 donation it starts the giving mindset rolling.

 

[mekCat]

Its a lot different saying we're at the bottom of 30(ish) private institutions lumped together for various topics (that is, our academic peers) and saying we're at the bottom of all private institutions.

If we were at the bottom of all private institutions there's no way we'd as highly ranked by whatever ranking (US snooze or other) as we are.

 

[pawildcat_rivals209725]

With an endowment hovering in the $7-$8 billion range most years, Northwestern alums have hardly been tightwads. Perhaps their priorities tend more toward the academic side of things, while yours tend more toward the athletic.

 

[Turk_rivals223269]

that's what we are talking about....athletic

 

[T_Levine]

Keep in mind that the last major fundraising campaign 1.5B 20 families were responsible for over 85% of the number.

 

[mekCat]

Do you have a source for that? Fundraising numbers typically are that 20% of the donors basically give 80 - 90% of the dollars. I would think that NU fall into that general experience.

So maybe your 20 families should reall be 20%, which would not be surprising in any way.

 

[pawildcat_rivals209725]

There are people in this country who make more in a month than many of us made in 40 years of working, so I wouldn't be surprised if some families supply the majority of the cash. That doesn't make those who contribute less "tightwads." The great majority of graduates from most schools don't give a dime to the old alma mater.

 

[xxxbobxxx]

As a middle-aged alum with a higher than most income, I'll share my approach:

1. I don't donate to the school. Even though I received a partial athletic scholarship, I feel I gave NU more than ample money in tuition for undergrad and grad. Before you suggest my education led to my income, I would point out that my intelligence afforded me access to many top tier schools (NU was closest to home and Big 10) and I feel they would have all prepared me equally. Therefore, I do not feel NU did anything particularly special to cause my financial success. My career path is not a result of any alumni, coop or intern connection. Also, with $7-$8 billion in endowment, I think NU is doing just fine on its own.

2. I have purchased many athletic tickets and once held season tickets for each basketball and football. I have traveled to Bowl games and gone to B1G bball championships regularly. I also contributed in a small fashion to a fundraising drive that followed one of our successful football seasons - they just caught me at the right time.

I would probably donate to athletics again - but not today. Today, I pass on buying, or receiving, football tickets (I couldn't pass on the tickets to ND last season and glad I didn't...). I would buy basketball tickets and plan to do so. If I am engaged by the team, then I don't mind spending money on the program. (I actually went to a few softball and lax games in recent years.)

But I do not feel that the administration and the head coach are placing program success in football above their egos. I feel that Fitz is arrogant in his loyalty in a stick it in your face fashion. I feel the admin turns a blind eye because Fitz is such the feel good story and a good face for the program. And I think this is not what I want to support in any meaning way.

As an aside, I wonder if NU used some of that endowment to offer some form business incubator for its alum, perhaps they could not only help those that left NU with giant debt get started, but also encourage, or even contract, for future contributions from a larger contingent.

 

[plevs]

I think the football team has already done their part. If I recall correctly NU was outside the top 20 in the rankings prior to the Rose Bowl season. Applicants went through the roof, and NU jumped inside the top 10 for a short time befor settling at 12ish. I can't find the historical rankings so I may be wrong.

 

[thewildcat2011]

You do not recall correctly.

Historical rankings

 

[Gladeskat]

Originally posted by T_Levine:
I don't know the exact organization or study, but I believe there is a consortium of 30 (ish) private schools that are always lumped together on various topics. Based on my exposure to the alumni association and to fundraising, I have seen data points over the years that have shown Northwestern at the bottom or second to last as far as percentage of alumni giving.

Another source, over the years, has been the US and News Rankings. I have seen it written, multiple times, that alumni giving is a major factor in their rankings and Northwestern's rank is suppressed because of this category.

For a large percentage of students, NU is an uncaring, boring, grind of a school.

 

[thewildcat2011]

For a decent chunk of the student body, NU is also viewed as a back up school to X Ivy that they wish they could have attended. The bitterness starts before they even step on campus, and it's hard to reel those kids back in because they never really give it a chance.

 

[plevs]

Thanks for the data, I wasn't that far off though wcat2011

1991 ranked 23
1992-1996 ranked 13-14

After the Rose Bowl and Citrus seasons NU jumped because a spike in applications
1997-1999 ranked 9, 9, 10




In 1984, quarterback Doug Flutie led Boston College to an upset win over reigning national champs the University of Miami, capping the game with an awe-inspiring, 60-yard hail Mary touchdown pass, still regarded as one of the greatest plays in sports history. Over the next two years, applications to Boston College jumped 30%.* Northwestern University saw a similar spike in student interest after its highly improbable 1995 Rose Bowl run. So did The University of Florida after it won titles in basketball and football in 2006.
The truth is that there really isn't much room for NU to go any higher.

http://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2011/12/would-colleges-be-better-off-without-football/250691/

 

[thewildcat2011]

Originally posted by plevs:
Thanks for the data, I wasn't that far off though wcat2011

1991 ranked 23
1992-1996 ranked 13-14

After the Rose Bowl and Citrus seasons NU jumped because a spike in applications
1997-1999 ranked 9, 9, 10




In 1984, quarterback Doug Flutie led Boston College to an upset win over reigning national champs the University of Miami, capping the game with an awe-inspiring, 60-yard hail Mary touchdown pass, still regarded as one of the greatest plays in sports history. Over the next two years, applications to Boston College jumped 30%.* Northwestern University saw a similar spike in student interest after its highly improbable 1995 Rose Bowl run. So did The University of Florida after it won titles in basketball and football in 2006.
The truth is that there really isn't much room for NU to go any higher.

All true, though 1991 appears to be the lowest point, as we were in the teens before that year. I actually wouldn't be surprised if our ranking spiked a little not because of applications (maybe I'm too in school mode right now, but it bugs me that the author didn't cite his sources or numbers for that paragraph), but donations.

To back up T_Levine, I've heard that what really holds back Northwestern's ranking in the USWNR methodology is alumni donation %.

 

[RealityCheckCats]

Originally posted by Sheffielder:

Originally posted by T_Levine:
We are one of the lowest, basically the bottom, of alumni donations in dollars and percentage of all private institutions.

What's your source for this? (I'm not questioning, just curious) And are you referring to overall giving or just to athletics?

If overall giving is among the lowest, then I have absolutely no guesses on why. If we're just talking about athletics, I think that question answers itself. We've had short bursts of greatness over the past 20 years and seen immediate, short-term gains in applications and giving rates, but only football is carrying the load, and never for more than a couple years at a time.

He's referring to overall giving. Northwestern has a sad alumni giving rate compared to peer institutions. To what do we attribute the relatively low rate? Northwestern alumni report less satisfaction with their college experience than their peers and they don't feel NU prepared them for post-college life, either. In fact, NU alumni post lower satisfaction in these two areas than the average college student, not just the average college student at Yale or UChicago or Stanford.

In case you're wondering, the rate hovers near 25% for all undergrad alumni and that's a lower rate than every "top ten" university.

 

[T_Levine]

I don't know if I agree with the satisfaction issue. I think northwestern fails in the community aspect of the undergrad experience and does not do a good job creating a collaborative learning experience. I recently heard that fraternity parties now have lines and the guy at the door lets girls in based on looks and how they are dressed. That's only a minor comment, but the overall exp doesn't seem to have improved in the community and closeness subject in thirty years. Nu does a good and for some great job of educating the individual but does not build enough group like bonds. When I cochaired my 15 year reunion some years back we had 300 of 1600 graduates come back. Same year stanford with a similar class size had over 1000 come back. I also was shocked to learn that most, even the very popular ones, only kept in close contact with one classmate.

 

[EvanstonCat]

Well, it goes both ways. For alums to donate, there has to be inspiration.

For the first time since 1995, I will not donate to the football program this coming year. It's kind of like my view on taxes. I wouldn't mind paying more if I could trust the federal government to make good use of the funds. Instead, I feel like I'm pouring water into a bathtub with a hole in it.

Until the results on the field improve to an acceptable standard or at least that there are real changes made that demonstrate to me that this regime finds 5-7 seasons unacceptable, I will withhold my money. I am utterly disappointed that there weren't off-season moves to improve our coaching staff. Why anyone thinks our results will be different as we continue with the same old same old, I don't know. With the lack of change, I have no choice but to withdraw my monetary support.

 

[Gladeskat]

Basically, NU sucks as a college experience for most NU students.

I don't know how much of this is the University's fault and how much of this is the percentage of nerd turds NU admits as students. There is a high nerd turd density at NU.
This post was edited on 1/24 4:31 AM by Gladeskat

 

[xxxbobxxx]

+1

 

[xxxbobxxx]

What is a nerd turd? Is it different than the simple nerd?

 

[pawildcat_rivals209725]

You could say the same thing about a helluva a lot of elementary schools, high schools and other colleges and universities.

 

[beetlemania74]

Originally posted by Gladeskat:
Basically, NU sucks as a college experience for most NU students.

I don't know how much of this is the University's fault and how much of this is the percentage of nerd turds NU admits as students. There is a high nerd turd density at NU.

This post was edited on 1/24 4:31 AM by Gladeskat

"NU sucks as a college experience for most NU students"? I'm guessing your statements are, like much of what you say about NU, based upon your own experiences as a student at NU 40 years ago. Or have you actually been walking the sidewalks of Sheridan Road, interviewing students to make sure you get an accurate pulse on the thoughts and feelings of the current student body?

I know I'm seriously overreacting here, but Fitz sells the football student-athletes on NU's academic excellence and on career opportunities through NU's successful alumni base, and then you show up on this board and crap all over the university. I can guarantee you that NU doesn't "suck as a college experience" for "most NU students". I also think it's a huge insult to current NU students and to recent alumni (at least those who've graduated in the past 40 years) to call them "nerd turds". Are the NU student-athletes that you cheer for and support "nerd turds", or just all those other NU students?

 

[T_Levine]

Northwestern is a very interesting place from a decade perspective. The university can be broken down accurately as follows

Pre 1968

Quotas for jews and blacks
Good private school but no Ivy League comparison

65-73

War years

73-84

Good school, rocky miller flirting with trying to get into the Ivy leagues. Athletic despair. No more pe major or undergraduate colege of commerce. Rise of Kellogg. Major falling behind in endowment. 82-83 sees 20% increase in tuition.

Until now majority of alums are Midwest based and scent percentage from the east.

85 onward

Weber hired. Ten year focus on fun raising. University goes international in scope.

95 onward

Endowment grows. Program development and the undergrad experience is improved because of these changes. Geography of undergrad composition is radically different and alumni disperse all over.

 

[Gladeskat]

Originally posted by beetlemania74:

Originally posted by Gladeskat:
Basically, NU sucks as a college experience for most NU students.

I don't know how much of this is the University's fault and how much of this is the percentage of nerd turds NU admits as students. There is a high nerd turd density at NU.

This post was edited on 1/24 4:31 AM by Gladeskat

"NU sucks as a college experience for most NU students"? I'm guessing your statements are, like much of what you say about NU, based upon your own experiences as a student at NU 40 years ago. Or have you actually been walking the sidewalks of Sheridan Road, interviewing students to make sure you get an accurate pulse on the thoughts and feelings of the current student body?

I know I'm seriously overreacting here, but Fitz sells the football student-athletes on NU's academic excellence and on career opportunities through NU's successful alumni base, and then you show up on this board and crap all over the university. I can guarantee you that NU doesn't "suck as a college experience" for "most NU students". I also think it's a huge insult to current NU students and to recent alumni (at least those who've graduated in the past 40 years) to call them "nerd turds". Are the NU student-athletes that you cheer for and support "nerd turds", or just all those other NU students?

The topic is about alumni support, not about students at NU today or who've graduated recently. There is a reason why NU gets such low support from its alums percentage-wise. A large number of those graduating classes fall between 1974 and 1994.

Maybe poor alum donation rates have something to do with a history of inadequate athletic facilities for NU students for decades, few student support programs, or poor support for NU student activities. Do you know NU once had the highest suicide rate of all colleges in the country? They should have painted a target on the FW Complex parking lot. Maybe that had something to do with NU literally serving as a sanctuary for large volume drug dealing on the North Side. That programs for AA's had to be forced upon the University by NU students. That outside pressures were brought to bear to break the University's quota system for admissions. I wonder if there was a relationship between no programs for students, poor athletic programs, widespread drug sales and abuse, high suicide rates and poor giving rates? Sheesh, even the food quality and availability sucked at NU relative to other schools. So much so that they built the "**** Shack" on north campus. Did you know NU tried to run off the Sandwichman until students petitioned the University to allow him to peddle sandwiches. About the only thing that I can recall the University doing for students was providing kegs of beer every Thursday night in the dorms (and that's questionable). A lot of the positive changes were initiated by the students themselves...e.g., the Dance Marathon and Greek social events.

Admittedly I come across harsh here. I can only compare my experiences at two schools as an undergrad and not those of others (though many of my friends felt the same as I did and some also transferred out of NU). I give credit to NU for making serious changes that positively affected the atmosphere on campus...but they had to. Hopefully giving will improve with the graduating classes over the past decade or two.

Hopefully in the future we can create enough good feeling towards NU amongst our alums so that we avoid having our richest alum, Bill Cook (worth $5 billion), become a major donor ($45M) to another university (Indiana) rather than NU.

Nerd turds are the jerks who have zero interest in athletics, student athletes, and even the social scene that existed except to make disparaging remarks about them. They thought it's cool to put down NU athletics and social life every chance they could get. I roomed with one my freshman year. Complete weirdo.




This post was edited on 1/26 1:08 AM by Gladeskat

 

[Gladeskat]

Originally posted by T_Levine:
Northwestern is a very interesting place from a decade perspective. The university can be broken down accurately as follows

Pre 1968

Quotas for jews and blacks
Good private school but no Ivy League comparison

65-73

War years

73-84

Good school, rocky miller flirting with trying to get into the Ivy leagues. Athletic despair. No more pe major or undergraduate colege of commerce. Rise of Kellogg. Major falling behind in endowment. 82-83 sees 20% increase in tuition.

Until now majority of alums are Midwest based and scent percentage from the east.

85 onward

Weber hired. Ten year focus on fun raising. University goes international in scope.

95 onward

Endowment grows. Program development and the undergrad experience is improved because of these changes. Geography of undergrad composition is radically different and alumni disperse all over.

Things have definitely improved. Barnett and the Rose Bowl was a huge positive influence.

When did attitudes change regarding drug use? 1983?

 

[pawildcat_rivals209725]

Most of the drug use I saw at NU in 1969-70 was grass. Drug use on most campuses has probably declined, but alcohol use seems to be as prevalent, or more so, than it was years ago. While attending an Ohio State game, I saw many examples of behavior that would have gotten you expelled at the small Pa. state college I attended as an undergrad (or perhaps placed on double secret probation).

 

[thewildcat2011]

The kicker is that Cook donated directly to athletics and allowed IU to build 15M worth of brand new practice facilities recently...wonder if we could have used those.
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