Game thread vs. Providence
- Thread starter freewillie07
- Start date
Turned on right around the 19-6 mark, but not discouraged by what I saw. Didn't give up like some games last year. pC made a ton of threes and they weren’t all wide open. Greer is more than a 3 minute rest for Boo. Played very well. Pete wanted the ball late. Berry wasn’t as sharp as he can be. Roper and Simmons can contribute. Need to start better (obviously) and hit the boards.
They were only outrebounded 36-32 and both teams had 7 offensive boards. Why is it a big issue?
They shot really well. They hit 6 more 3’s than we did. That’s a lot of points to make up when you don’t get to the line much. Pete had chances at the end to tie the game. Good effort overall.
When we were being steam rolled only 3 players seemed to “want” to take shots: Nance/Buie/Young. Later, as we were playing catch up, others joined the party. It’s not unexpected, Berry/Roper/Simmons are young and without much experience in this type of game. It’s a game it’s not that big a deal to lose. It’s not a bad loss. As long as we learn from it, it’s growth. Those guys will be steadier from the start in the future.
Strategically, Nate Watson starts killing us, we went to zone. We could have fought size with size, but we chose the zone. We chose it again to start the 2nd half. It might be a glimpse of how we will try to stop big men from abusing our Nance at the five. CC really does not believe In RY.
Strategically, Nate Watson starts killing us, we went to zone. We could have fought size with size, but we chose the zone. We chose it again to start the 2nd half. It might be a glimpse of how we will try to stop big men from abusing our Nance at the five. CC really does not believe In RY.
I wouldn’t have guessed we shot that well. The bigger surprise is that a career 21% 3-pt shooter for Providence went 4-5 tonight. And many of his shots bailed them out against solid defense. That was the back-breaker.
Young wasn't going to stop the 3 point shooters on defense. We lost because two guys with career 3-point percentages of 27.4% and 20.9% shot a combined 7-10 from 3.
We lost because we had to go to a zone, that they eviscerated, because we thought that was the only way to address Nate Watson killing us. Had we stuck with man and put RY on Watson mano a mano, we might not have given up all those 3's.
Good effort at the end. I'm encouraged. Unlike in football.
I wonder also if Nicholson is sufficiently not a liability on offense, is he enough of a presence in the post defense that we could not use in this situation? Could we not throw him out there to neutralize Watson? Play 4 on 4 on offense and just have him camp out in the high and low post to grab boards and limit him to some easy dunks and put backs. And then on D have him front up a big like that who can't take it out to the 3. He seemed to be a real shot blocker and defensive presence, though that was in HS tape and against Farleigh Dickinson.
Cappy is right on point. They took more 3s and made a similar %. That’s the way the game works these days and we gladly can compete playing that way. Our defense will get better as freshmen learn even more. We’ll be very competitive and experience will help us win. Great run at the end after being down 18. Enjoyed watching the game with my Friar son. NU crowd was a solid showing.
It really is that simple. Folks want to make it more complicated than that or blame Collins or one of the players but we played the percentages on defense and lost. Their best player only took 12 shots, had 5 rebounds and 0 assists.
And I didn’t think Beran fouled Durham on one of his drives. And Greer should not be trying to take a bigger player to the basket on a fast break. That was a tough swing. Sometimes our fast breaks turn into easy points for the other team.
We let 25
Not these guys. One of them shot 11.9% from 3-point range last year and is shooting 22% this year. The guy who was 4-5 was 9-43 in his career. The other guy is shooting 27.3% this year. They were 9-13. You could put them in the gym in warmups with no defense and they wouldn't hit 9 for 13. Young wasn't stopping Watson either. Watson went right at him and scored twice. I would much rather take my chances with those guys than have Young and Nance have to guard Watson all game.
EvanstonCat:
I'll have to go thru the box score, but we shouldn't get beaten up on the boards when Nance and Young are out there together. Nicholson should be Young's backup (as needed) and Young should play a lot more, mainly with Nance. Beran should primarily be Nance's backup, not a starter. 10-15 minutes a night. Nance should play as much as he can handle.
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That’s incredibly frustrating. They bailed out so many busted possessions.
So, we gave up 7 offensive boards and we also had 7 offensive boards and rebounding is a big issue because of that? You probably won’t see too many games with 2 big conference teams going at it where each team has much less than 7 offensive rebounds.
For what its worth Watson is pretty good. Tough to defend.
He scored 16 points in 36 minutes. 6 rebounds.
Young scored 9 points in 16 minutes. 4 rebounds.
We were down
There is absolutely no nuance to your analysis. Young had one defensive rebound in 16 minutes of play. They had 7 offensive rebounds. We had 5. They had 10 second chance points. We had six. Not a significant difference. A lot of folks on this board are still evaluating games as if it were 1976. The game has changed. They hit 14 3-pointers. We hit 8. Do the math. And, again, Watson went right at Young and scored on back to back baskets, if I remember correctly. I have no issue if Young plays more minutes but him not playing more was not the reason we lost today. I am curious why Greer played more than our best 3-point shooter. Berry only took 2 shots. We need to take more than 17 3-point shots. That's not enough. Let's address that.
Young had 2 rebounds (1 offensive and one defensive) unless the box score is wrong. Not a good rebounding game for him.
There’s a reason Watson averages 20. He’s good. But you’re making it seem like he scored at will on Young. Those two baskets were very tough shots where Young defended pretty darn well. Eye test or stat line, Beran does not even remotely deserve to play more than Young. And it’s a bit mind boggling he continues to.
I don’t know if we’d have won if we stuck to man to man. No one does. It’s not a bad loss. Even if I don’t want to go down the road of “good effort”. Reminds me of the good effort when we lost in Champaign last year. So happy we kept it close. Difference that makes this one bearable is that it’s not a part of a long losing streak.
Ultimately it’s one game, first tough game agains a “real” opponent. So hopefully we get better. Realistically, good effort or not, we didn’t look good, we came in soft and never recovered. Hoping we kill Georgia and get some confidence back.
It’s a fair question. From my vantage point he was a steadying force on offense, and even made some nice passes (the one to Young in the paint stands out). And he’s a good man-to-man defender. But Berry’s absence was noticeable.
Beran can actually be fairly effective when he decisively drives to the basket, or confidently takes a 3-pointer. Unfortunately, this doesn’t happen often enough for him to merit the minutes he’s currently getting.
Young has his limitations but I’m generally content when he’s out on the floor.
I'm not trying to suggest that Young played poor defense on Watson. Just that he scored on him on a couple of possessions and there is no reason to think he wouldn't have been able to continue to score on him (even if Young made it tough on him). I don't think it was a bad game plan to limit Watson's shots and make bad shooters hit 3's (those bad shooters ended up shooting 70% on 13 3-pointers). Young is our best low-point scorer by far. I am not sure why Beran plays more minutes than him other than Beran is a better perimeter defender and help-defender. Guards are very comfortable going right at Young at the basket. But his offense should more than make up for that.
And, again, I think we should be focusing on why we only took 17 3-point shots with Young only playing 16 minutes. That's the bigger issue. It's not like we have a bunch of guys that are good at driving to the basket.
Young tends to tie up the opponent's big guy and neither gets the rebound. He is not a dominant defensive rebounder, especially against post players who are bigger than him. He had a difficult time defending Garza and Cockburn last year. He handles the less bulky guys.
He adds a lot when he's out there. Crafty scorer, good passer. Good teammate, steady performer. Not the best hands, will turn it over sometimes. A winning player.
So their so-so guards got hot. I get that... it just would be nice if that OCCASIONALLY happened for us.
Providence fan here. Was at the game. The decision to go zone was absolutely the right call. PC was uncharacteristically hot from beyond the arc, although a lot of those looks weren’t contested. You can point to the career field goal percentage, but a lot of those looks were wide open.
You guys know this team much better than me, but I think Young would pair nicely with Nance in starting line-up. Not an athletic kid at all, but he knows how to play in the post. I’d imagine he gives most opposing players fits in the low block.
Play that game ten times, it is probably a fair split. NW is a tourney team, and I stand by that. Good luck the rest of the way.
P.S. I was at the game at your place in 2019-2020 when you guys blew the doors off us ha
Disagree, maybe if we had Audige.
They made their shots, but their 3 pt shots were wide open shots, we had to work for our shots.
It was frustrating to play a zone and have the shot clock run under 5, and they still get a wide open 3 in the first half (they hit some tough ones late in shot clock in 2h).
Greer was one of the best players on the court yesterday. A lot of people ***** about mistakes and then at the same time complain about Greer who doesn’t make many. Greer has developed into a. b1G ten contributor. Great kid, and takes too much gruff on this board.
C’mon White Boy you watched the game. You know better than this. Young was not stopping them on D. For as good and crafty as he is around the basket he is challenged on Defense. This doesn’t mean just guarding his man, but help D as well. Greer got more rebounds than him. The argument that Young and the other teams big neutralize each other in rebounding is a fallacy not supported by any evidence. You pick your spots and Young is effective.
MN is not going to play much in close games. Get used to it. Your fascination with MN is mind boggling at this stage of his career. Just because the team struggles to rebound, doesn’t mean MN can come in and be Dennis Rodman.
NU lost the game. PC made shots. The game plan made sense.
Honestly, almost everyone here will disagree, but one of the most encouraging things in the first 4 games has been CCC. He has had a plan, adjusted when necessary, let guys play through some things, actually kept players in that were playing well, ran plays for Pete when he should and mixed up the D on a team that is Defensively challenged where some of our best defenders have limited experience. I have criticized CCC for all those things at one time or another during his 8 years.
I realize we will hear after EVERY loss that 1) Young needs to play more with Pete, 2) MN would have made a difference, and 3) we played the wrong defense. Of course all three of these things are controllable by the HC and leads to the campaign to blame CCC for all things NU basketball.
During warmups Nicholson is with Sandhu and Dixon as passers to the 3 point shooting being done by the rest of the squad. As a point of comparison Barnihizer is with the top 10 team.
Having slept on it, I can think of a few positives from last night -- the physicality of Simmons and Roper (though not Roper's no-chance shots in crunch time), Nance taking some more steps toward being a true go-to player, and Young making an impact in spots. Ryan's limitations are what they are, but I would consider starting him anyway just to get early points on the board and settle the rest of the team down.