Women want to combine the Final Fours and split revenue since they only generate $34M and the men generate $900M.
Gender Equity and the Final Four
- Thread starter VirginiaWildcat
- Start date
Women want to combine the Final Fours and split revenue since they only generate $34M and the men generate $900M.
Actually, what the report says is that the Women's tournament could generate $100M in revenue if marketed properly. Seems like the NCAA has been extremely lazy in how it promotes WBB and non revenue sports. The fact that the NCAA refuses to let the Women's tournament use the "March Madness" moniker speaks volumes for the low regard they have for WBB.
The “could” generate $100M seems fairly objective, and not likely attainable. Why are we blaming a company that markets how it thinks it will make the most revenue? With Title IX already existing, I don’t think they have a leg to stand in here. This seems to be more entitlement than anything else.
Heck, with better marketing, D2 and D3 tournaments could make more money too.
And what do you think? Is women's basketball just waiting to make a bazillion dollars with the right marketing campaign? Could the WNBA playoffs be just as lucrative as their NBA counterpart if only marketed properly?
The WNBA brings in a total annual revenue of $60 million (against operating costs of over $70 million), but we're expected to believe that one women's college basketball tournament will bring in $100 million if it's just marketed properly. Sure.
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So much entitlement.
All these people, with the lone exception of Purple Pile Driver, calling for college athletes to be paid their free market price are not advocating for reducing the Title IX women's scholarships. If you want to pretend to be supporting free markets, stop trying to have it both ways.
Did you read the article you posted? "Women" didn't do anything. This is an article about a report that the NCAA commissioned. "A law firm hired by the NCAA to investigate equity issues released a 113-page report ....". Where do you see anything in the article about splitting revenue?
Women didn’t do anything? Who do you think spearheaded the report, just a bunch of men? Do you think they should combine the two tournaments?
I have no opinion on it. I don't think it would affect the men's tournament. It may or may not help the women's tournament. I don't see how changing the timing of the women's tournament is such a flashpoint issue.
Having both tournaments in the same place would be logistically extremely difficult. If you are indifferent, do you feel the report was necessary?
The article suggests just having the final four at the same place, not the whole tournament. I can't imagine that would be so hard to do. The bigger question, I think, is whether it would have any effect on anything.
The NCAA commissioned the self-evaluation after the disparity between the weight room provided to men and women last spring. See https://www.espn.com/womens-college...ams-disparity-ncaa-weight-training-facilities. Especially see the video at the top of the page. Self-reflection is generally a good idea.
The NCAA commissioned the self-evaluation after the disparity between the weight room provided to men and women last spring. See https://www.espn.com/womens-college...ams-disparity-ncaa-weight-training-facilities. Especially see the video at the top of the page. Self-reflection is generally a good idea.
Catering to where the revenue rolls in is generally a good idea too. A lot of D1 universities still have the women play their home games on a smaller capacity court, and still doesn’t get filled.
I think the best argument against having both Final Fours at the same venue is the fact that the Men play in a dome stadium and sell it out. The reality is, the Women would be lucky to sell even half of the seats and the atmosphere would be dead. Better to keep their Final Four in a real basketball arena.
I barely read about this yesterday, and my first thought was Indianapolis hotels for instance - a favorite spot for the Final Four.
I wonder if Indy could handle the entourages of 8 schools (teams, staff, admin, cheerleaders, bands), the men's fan base, I assume a smaller women's fan base, general fans and the men's coaches unofficial "convention."
Can I assume the women coaches have an unofficial convention also? I've never attended.
If you have enough for that, as a fan, I'd Iove an excuse to attend a women's final four on the same weekend.
I wonder if Indy could handle the entourages of 8 schools (teams, staff, admin, cheerleaders, bands), the men's fan base, I assume a smaller women's fan base, general fans and the men's coaches unofficial "convention."
Can I assume the women coaches have an unofficial convention also? I've never attended.
If you have enough for that, as a fan, I'd Iove an excuse to attend a women's final four on the same weekend.
Another article I saw had the proposal stating that both Final Fours would be held in the same city, not necessarily at the same venue. Plenty of cities (e.g. Indy, Minneapolis, Detroit, Houston, Atlanta, Dallas, etc.) have NBA arenas in addition to the larger domed football stadiums.
The fan experience watching basketball games in a converted football stadium sucks. I went to one of the Final Four games in Houston a few years back, and I needed binoculars to watch the game. Honestly, if given the option, I'd prefer to watch the women's final in a real basketball arena.
Amen.
Went to the elite eight round at Ford Field in Detroit. Great games with Davidson/Stephen Curry almost upsetting ultimately champion Kansas. Decent seat like 15 rows up behind the basket. Never again. It sucks, it is a (greedy) aberration.
iirc Indy has about 30,000 hotel rooms, the convention center sits within walking distance of both Lucas Oil Field and Bankers Life Fieldhouse, and there are uncounted (by me) numbers of Air BnBs in the metro area as well. the annual Gencon event brings crowds of 50-60,000 wandering around the convention center area and downtown for four or five days every year without muss or fuss. just fyi.
In all of the discussion above no one has yet mentioned the real difference between the two sports. So I will.
Women's basketball is nowhere near as fast, dramatic, and exciting as men's basketball. There, I said it. And I'm sure there will be some who will disagree and criticize me for it.
But that's the way I see it and think that most other basketball fans do as well.
So the fact that women have a much smaller audience and a lot less interest is no surprise. They are delivering a different product to the market and are getting compensated for the value of that product. It's not the same as the men's product, so there is no reason they should get the same compensation.
Women's basketball is nowhere near as fast, dramatic, and exciting as men's basketball. There, I said it. And I'm sure there will be some who will disagree and criticize me for it.
But that's the way I see it and think that most other basketball fans do as well.
So the fact that women have a much smaller audience and a lot less interest is no surprise. They are delivering a different product to the market and are getting compensated for the value of that product. It's not the same as the men's product, so there is no reason they should get the same compensation.
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I don't think anyone is arguing that the men's game isn't played at a higher level or that both sports should receive the same amount of compensation. The WNBA all-star team would probably lose badly to a team of top high school male players.
The concern is that the women's Final Four isn't being promoted by the NCAA sufficiently. Why not allow the "March Madness" trademark to be used by women's event? That's just silly. Why not improve the facilities and accommodations for the women?
I like the idea of hosting both events in the same city on the same weekend. If it were held here and I were given the choice of events to attend, I'd prefer to see the women play. Not because it would be more "exciting", but because the venue would be more comfortable and the game would be fun to attend with my daughters.
No one wants to watch women’s basketball...it’s an awful product....and it has zero parity
But that is exactly what they want to do if I understand their position correctly. They want to split the revenue for the Final Four with the men's teams.
I don't think that is at all what anyone has proposed. Where did you read this?
Okay, they already do that in many cases.
Free college tuition and (I'm assuming) room and board.
At NU thats about $75,000 a year.
Seems like a lot of compensation to just play a sport.
And it isn't even taxed.
That was my interpretation of the first post in this thread where VirginiaWildcat said:
"Women want to combine the Final Fours and split revenue since they only generate $34M and the men generate $900M."
Maybe that was the wrong interpretation. I don't know. By 'split' I assume that means 50/50.
I guarantee you there’s a reason for it. I also guarantee you that the reason has to do with $$$. They don’t allow D2 or D3 men’s to use March Madness either.
I don't even remember who won the women's title this season. My guess would be UConn, since they always seem to win it, but that's just a guess.
Sure, there's a reason for it, and in my opinion that reason is misguided and shortsighted. Their intention was probably to "protect the brand", but I really don't see why allowing the women's Final Four to use the name "March Madness" dilutes its effectiveness with the men's tournament. Instead, I feel it could help promote both the women's and men's tournaments together.
What’s your point? Are you trying to say that men’s basketball has the same popularity as woman’s?
Yes. I took great interest because of the Texas teams, because I wanted UTEP to remain the only champion from Texas.
Of all the teams, why did it have to be Baylor. I can't stand Baylor.
No, that's not what I'm saying, as that would be a dumb argument. I just don't like determining the value of something based on one person's memory of it. My wife doesn't remember who NU beat in its bowl game on January 1st, but that doesn't mean that NU football isn't important in our family.
No, that's not what I'm saying, as that would be a dumb argument. I just don't like determining the value of something based on one person's memory of it. My wife doesn't remember who NU beat in its bowl game on January 1st, but that doesn't mean that NU football isn't important in our family.
But you CAN determine the popularity of something based on many people’s memory of it. I think it’s a guarantee that far more people remember who won the men’s bball championship as opposed to the women.
Yeah, I remember it as well for those reasons (and because my father in law is a UCLA alum), but normally that level of detail fades from my memory after awhile. I can't tell you from memory who played in the NBA finals or Super Bowl last year (though I do remember that the Lakers beat someone).
What is your reason for disliking Baylor? Is it the recent scandals, or something more than that?
I won't argue with that. No one here is trying to equalize the popularity of the two sports. I'm just saying that the NCAA could take some relatively simple steps to help promote the women's sport without damaging the "brand". Call it synergy if you want. It's not necessarily a zero sum game here.
Can you summarize your point in this thread?
The recent and less recent scandals (I don't know how recent you consider the Dave Bliss ordeal).
I think Feral summed up nicely where I stand on this. “All these people, with the lone exception of Purple Pile Driver, calling for college athletes to be paid their free market price are not advocating for reducing the Title IX women's scholarships. If you want to pretend to be supporting free markets, stop trying to have it both ways.”