This thread is a joke. Cam was never a real RU man anyway. Transferred in, did his thing, transferred out. He likes the marauder life. That's fine. Appreciate him stopping by for a brief moment in time that we all must navigate for ourselves. Best of luck to him. Go RU
Geo Baker
- Thread starter rpiseman
- Start date
I’m pretty sure he was making a point about how things worked before NIL.
loyalty ? why should they have loyalty ? and to who ? they are looking out for No. 1, as they should. why was it ok for him to come here and not ok for him to now go someplace else ?
'91...what made you think Cam Spencer was "loyal" to RU lol? He's only loyal to himself. Just like you and me.
I guarantee you people would watch the g league if it was marketed. What if I told you NIL saved college basketball....the NBA summer league was becoming wildly successful. (Proving that people will watch) Then the g league ignite started taking players right out of highschool and offering them a salary. Players were also beginning to explore options playing professionally over seas. The fact players are now allowed to earn what people are willing to pay them. You know, capitalism, made NCAA a more enticing option for elite players.
And once again I'll say that if Dylan Harper and Ace bailey come to Rutgers it will increase attendance, media coverage and enrollment even if they don'tale a sweet 16....The only way you can't see the value in the talents these kids worked hard to develop is if You're purposefully being obtuse to carry on an argument. You can say you don't like it or that it makes you sad cam Spencer is leaving. That is fine but to say these kids have no value is nuts... Even this website is making more money because we are even in the hunt for Dylan Harper. Every little statement the kid makes there is an article on it and his face is on the front of the site. NJ.com, yahoo, 247, how many people are supporting their families with Dylan Harper content? It's a new economy, new markets, new streams of income..
With full respect…..some people will stop watching. I am on fence.Bigger picture like college kids getting taken advantage of not knowing the amount of dollars they’re bringing the NCAA while they can’t make anything? Again, i get the fan displeasure but with all due respect it’s not about the fans. And before someone replies saying they’re going to stop watching college basketball, ticket sales are at an all time high. Nobody is gonna stop watching
As season ticket holders my family watched you for 5 years, we watched Caleb for 5 years, watched Myles and Ron for 3 years and liked watching them on the court. To my family, especially my wife, you were more than players wearing a number. Watching Caleb interact with officials (in respectful way) and watching you interact with teammates. Watching Mag work his butt off.
Having guys come here and just wear the uniform and come for 1 year and really play for $ just isn’t the same.
Having said all of this…..the comments you made that wre controversial that got you in a little hot water were 100% on the money. Pike gets 4 million, knight makes X, Ru Rutgers gets a stupid amount of money from B1G and NCAA. And you just play basketball while everyone else makes $. It is very close to what you described it as.
A
anon_0k9zlfz6lz9oy
Guest
Lol at the fact u think people will watch the g league.
No one was watching those failed leagues like overtime elite either.
The kids need the individual schools FAR more than the schools need an individual player. These kids are a dime a dozen
He can correct me if I'm wrong but I'm very confident Geo and most every player is in favor of revenue-sharing so it's not exactly a dunk to accuse him of being in favor of "pay to play." Which really means "pay to work" which is kinda just how employment works.
Let the players collectively bargain with the conferences. The players will get paid and the conferences will be able to enact limits on player movement.
Let the players collectively bargain with the conferences. The players will get paid and the conferences will be able to enact limits on player movement.
But isn’t that true of any sport at any level? I love the yankees and would have been devastated if Judge left but would have still rooted for the Yankees not the Giants. Does that mean the Yankees should not have signed him?
Of course people want to see their team be good. You’re saying Geo has no value because people root for Rutgers not geo. Well yea? But we need good players to have a good team. The back of the jersey matters because it helps the front of the jersey. Geo matters to Rutgers because he was a good player on good teams. Am I missing your point here?
i don’t know about Gio but yes this is what many of us were afraid of . Go look at many of the posts you will see that the concern was NIL will ruin college sports. This is not a surprise ….it’s the tip of the iceberg.
Lol cool..."a dime a dozen" this is the core of the problem. There was even a poster saying that "cam Spencer is using his alma mater as a platform for financial gain". What do you think everyone at a university is there for? You are not respecting what these kids bring to the table as athletes. That is also fine, everyone can think and make decisions for themselves. I just find it ironic that you complain about nil because the particular athletes you'd like to commit to play football for Rutgers aren't committing because you believe other schools are able to compensate them for their talents, while Rutgers cannot. But now they are "a dime a dozen"?
I know for a fact people would watch the g league, I was in Vegas for NBA summer league and those games were packed. League is not marketed, the one game that was marketed was league ignite with scoot Henderson playing victor wembanyanas team from France. People tuned in for it, a couple of other scoot Henderson games have been picked up as well..if a player is spectacular, the people want to watch them no matter who they play for. What you are saying is the players need the marketing the NCAA provides. Which is true but if the league marketed their product it would generate the same results.
You think people really care about Rutgers or Florida Atlantic or duke basketball? Yeah right, duke basketball starts losing games and falls outside of the top 25 you think they are on ESPN as much? The schools need marketable players in order to sell their product. If the g league chose to hype up it's teams and players in the media (selling their product) yes people would watch.
Athletes are the most popular people on every campus. The rac sells out every game and you think nil can’t help a business.
Every nil deal i did when i was a player was with businesses, none with donors. You think influencer marketing is just for fun?
Right now there is a lot of pay for play I’m not arguing that but my long term vision is that is slows down and eventually shifts for most schools. The highest paid athletes right now are women and they’re not making money from any donors. Corporations are paying them. Some of the schools with more donor money will probably continue it but I think it’s gonna be hard to continue to tell people to give money with nothing in return and no tax write off. I wouldn’t do that
It’s not gonna slow down geo. These people are crazy.Athletes are the most popular people on every campus. The rac sells out every game and you think nil can’t help a business.
Every nil deal i did when i was a player was with businesses, none with donors. You think influencer marketing is just for fun?
Right now there is a lot of pay for play I’m not arguing that but my long term vision is that is slows down and eventually shifts for most schools. The highest paid athletes right now are women and they’re not making money from any donors. Corporations are paying them. Some of the schools with more donor money will probably continue it but I think it’s gonna be hard to continue to tell people to give money with nothing in return and no tax write off. I wouldn’t do that
People are free to do whatever they want. I never said they shouldn't have loyalty, but loyalty earns a high amount of respect in my world. Someone who flees at the last moment who is supposedly chasing dollar signs and leaves his current team hanging AFTER the portal deadline does not. Money and greed will erode fan bases but I'm not sure how much. Consider some 20-25 year plus ticket holders on this forum have been vocal about giving up their tickets, which means most likely their donations to the program, which could be the upper echelon of donors. I think I remember one saying they are a five sport donor who is considering stopping everything. I doubt these are isolated cases of fan disapproval and it will harm the fan base. Stay tuned, we shall see how this works itself out.
I think schools will need to figure out how to structure term deals on NIL with large buyouts if the kid wants to transfer. Only way to stabilize the current year to year reset. High school kid wants a chance commit for 3 years.
Geo was and continues to be an advocate for our program. He is a Loyal Son. I’m proud to be alumni with him. Blaming him because a player didn’t have any loyalty to our program and left is crazy. Let’s be thankful for the players who wish to stay and let’s move on. NIL is here to stay. If you have a complaint without a solution, all you have is a b*tch. Be part of the solution. I joined KTR.
Take a 48 hour break from the boards and focus on the future.
Take a 48 hour break from the boards and focus on the future.
you certainly have a point but I think there’s more to it
Sure there is hypocrisy going on: fans of ANY team are happy when their team poaches a good player and ***** when their team gets poached.
That’s just the nature of fandom.
So while I can admit that I too exhibit this hypocrisy when it comes to individual situations (eg, us getting and then losing cam), I can still have a broader/ more global perspective on the entire situation and have the opinion that I don’t like the wild-west nature of it.
College sports went from overly-burdensome and unfair rules to virtually no rules whatsoever.
So It’s not unreasonable for fans to say that maybe there could have been a middle-ground where kids could reasonably benefit form their name-image-likeness within some reasonable guidelines?!
. for example perhaps there could have been a situation where kids could ACTUALLY profit from their NIL without NIL being used as a bogus excuse to just buy kids to the highest bidder
Last edited:
There is a big difference here in where the money comes from. In your example above the coaches get paid directly by the school which gets the money from their revenue(tickets & TV rights).
With the intended purpose of NIL the way I envisioned it as Geo spoke about was having a player have the right to their Name Image and Likeness to earn money which ultimately should have come out of the pocket of businesses(that earn revenue) to pay players. His vision was to be able to host a camp. Other players saw this as a revenue share with the NCAA or P5 which earn crazy TV deals and earn billions.
Instead we ended up with the ability to pay players for their NIL out of the pockets of Donors and in other cases businesses(mostly for advertising such as in Livvy Dunne's case). It's no wonder the schools or the NCAA do not want to get involved as they aren't liable for anything here and they still keep reaping the rewards. What do they care about a player like Cam Spencer moving from one team to the next? They don't. Not a single dollar comes out of their pocket and they still have their tournaments and TV time.
When you leave the huge financial burden on the donors it creates a massive conundrum. You will separate schools based on their donor base but also a school will now struggle as a result because funds typically earmarked for capex or scholarships may now get diverted away to P4P.
Too long schools have relied on donations for funding to act as a non-profit organization. Maybe the NCAA should be paying the schools directly for a stipend towards scholarships that go to the players to give back their part of NIL. I mean these players are earning the NCAA Billions and where is their part in giving back.
Nailed it. Rutgers doesn't have the donors to keep up in the long run. The SEC was already getting much better in hoops. NIL will just speed it up.
Geo
And that leads into a couple of my questions
And I woukd appreciate your perspective
We are talking about the current model truly
Not being about NIL , but P4P. Corporations doing NIL look for ROI on their marketing investment. The reality is most college athektes don’t have a NIL profile that is gojng to compensate the investor the amount of money being thrown around f so right now , all NIL is a cover for P4P
So that leads into the real issues
1.) let’s make this a true semi pro ball
2.) if we do, are we going to allow agents be involved (and , by the way , there is a lot of kids right now being lead around by handlers that have less than the atheists true interest ar heart )…and let the student athekte have fair legal representation ?
3.) the thing i am leading to …are 18/21 year olds ready to be treated as pro athletes if they are fully viewed at that. There is an awful lot of kids that still do play for love of sport and competition and its That level of commitment that makes then say …hey , I can’t be a real student here with my time commitment …maybe that’s worth something ??? Or even a lot ??? But are they really ready for that weight and expeditions . I see and heard an awful lot about the covid year . If that was bad , and we saw and heard how hard it was on RU that year and their mental health…is the atmosphere that is going to be created by all of this worth $100k or less for the high percentage of kids getting NIL or P4P?
That’s the real question
The players won't give up anything and the courts likely wont let any restrictions
A
anon_0k9zlfz6lz9oy
Guest
Yeah im not saying geo wasnt valuable to rutgers success. What im saying is that people watch for Rutgers first, players second.
Jordan Bohanon for example tried to make the case people watched iowa because of him and thats why he deserved money. Bohanon is a total clown tho so that wasnt a surprise.
But again, look no further than the G League as to why the team names matter more than player names.
A
anon_0k9zlfz6lz9oy
Guest
I dont think itd be illegal for the ncaa to say, “our league wont let players play who accept bribes from donors”.
Its not like these kids are forced to play college basketball, they can go play in g league, one the lame startups like overtime elite, euro etc. The reason the kids arent doing that is theyre not dumb. They realize how valuable the colleges are and that theyll be nobodys if they dont play college ball
Agree here. I dunno if there are even contracts involved now or what, but structuring them to protect the school would be a smart idea.
Everything points to making things professional and getting agents/lawyers involved along with some basic regulations
A
anon_0k9zlfz6lz9oy
Guest
Our players already have NIL agents. And theyve been reaching out to fans/donors.
Interesting times. We’ll see where it all goes.
Let me ask you this...so let's say Dylan Harper....if he decides to go to the g league or to play professionally in Europe, you think he'd be a nobody in life? Some of you are too far gone and live in a bubble protected by the ways of the past. You don't understand the way these things work...the g l
Do you really believe that the people watching Rutgers basketball last year were watching because it was Rutgers or because the team was winning? Many of the people don't even know Rutgers is in New Jersey, many in Jersey hate that Rutgers is even trying to play big time college sports. The problem is that many of you on this board do not live in reality. This is why you just have to let things play out and people will get exactly what they are asking for if guys like you are in charge... luckily there are people that understand the new economy in charge of building RU athletics..
Another walk off game winner from GeoThis is the part where i say remove academic and music scholarships too since they’re also allowed to own their nil, and then you say no one is paying someone on academic scholarship 6 figures on the side, and then i say there’s a reason for that and move on with my night
It's not the schools...the schools have nothing to do with NIL...in fact, I think schools would still get in trouble for providing improper benefits..whoever they sign their nil deal with, yes it is a contract. Some of them are structured in a way that sound amazing but when you get into it..that 1 million dollar deal isn't all it seems.
If you don’t think schools (i.e. coaches and ADs) are involved with NIL you are misinformed.
I mean yes they work with the collectives or whatever but it is not the schools money. Why would the school draw up a contract?
100% out interest in Rutgers is because we love Rutgers I don’t think anyone would argue people love sports for the teams not the players. But you need talented players for teams to be good and that’s where the value of a player comes.
I’ll be going to games next year to hopefully see Dylan and Ace play for Rutgers. I wouldn’t care to see them if they play for anyone else. I’m not going to be as interested if we have a bunch of scrubs.
I love Rutgers and I love winning. We need talented players to win and now, like it or not, there is a market for them.
A
anon_0k9zlfz6lz9oy
Guest
Have I been to 100+ Rutgers football games because the players or the school? It hasnt been because were juggernauts haha.
I didnt say dylan/a player would be a nobody in life. Theyd be a total nobody for that timeframe though while in g league compared to if they went to college and played.
Speak for yourself. I’ve been watching to see our guy Ron work his way into the league. There are plenty of options now besides the NCAA.
Well , I’m not an ESPN sportscaster nor a Rivals or any other basketball expert but NO Cam will be replaced by SP either another portal guy or one/two of our current roster. I wish he stayed but he didn’t. Still, Rutgers is in a battle to reach that next level. Not sure Cam Spencer was the straw that stirs the drink. Good Luck Cam…
You kind of prove the point on why people follow G league when you call him "our guy Ron". Truth be told, 100% of Rutgers fans are rooting for him, but 99% of this board wouldn't pay attention to him now if he never played for us.
I was contradicting kyks point that the name on the back of the jersey doesn’t matter.
To be fair, the NBA could do more to promote the g league. Not easy to find games.