Climate is your religion. I am a sinner to you. You think you are going to heaven because you believe, and you want to punish the unbelievers. It's not new man. Instead of LOL man maybe try to be yolo man. Life is too short to focus on 140 years of something that should only be measured in millions of years.
Global Climate Changes
- Thread starter Beatle Bum
- Start date
It's only the west buying into this. Most of Asia, Africa and the Middle East are going to keep on producing carbon while we go broke to reduce carbon at a slightly slower rate.
More than 70% of the world's cobalt is produced in the Democratic Republic of Congo, and any nation that produces electronics wants in on that source. But based on operational mines and projected demand, forecasters predict that supply won't be able to keep up with demand by 2030, or even as early as 2025.
Jan 11, 2022
Jan 11, 2022
That mining is environmentally and humanely friendly, correct? Please don’t tell us we are polluting to get cobalt or that slave labor is used so we can feel good. Acceptable sacrifices?
Looks like climate change is becoming more widely accepted. Hopefully, everyone can get behind it.
That bastion of truth... feds... it's ******** kings. It really is. Does the climate change? Yep just as it has since the earth was created. Is there any evidence that humanity is causing any significant change? No.
Earth's climate has changed throughout history. In the past 650,000 years, there have been seven cycles of glacial advance and retreat, with the abrupt end of the last ice age about 11,700 years ago marking the beginning of the modern climate era—and of human civilization. Most of these climate changes are attributed to very small variations in Earth's orbit that alter the amount of energy our planet receives from the sun. But the warming we've seen over the past few decades is too rapid to be linked to changes in Earth's orbit and too large to be caused by solar activity.
Ice cores drawn from Greenland, Antarctica, and tropical mountain glaciers show that Earth's climate responds to changes in greenhouse gas levels. Ancient evidence can also be found in tree rings, ocean sediments, coral reefs, and layers of sedimentary rocks. This ancient, or paleoclimate, evidence reveals that current warming is occurring roughly 10 times faster than the average rate of ice-age-recovery warming. Carbon dioxide from human activity is increasing more than 250 times faster than it did from natural sources after the last Ice Age.
Observable evidence of rapid climate change includes:
- Global temperature rise
- Warming ocean
- Shrinking ice sheets
- Retreating glaciers
- Decreased snow cover
- Sea level rise
- Declining arctic sea ice
- Extreme weather events
- Ocean acidification
A detailed exhaustive scientific study proving Anthropogenic Climate Change:
Climate change is a response to energy imbalances in the climate system. For example, rising greenhouse gases directly cause an initial imbalance, the radiative forcing, in the planetary radiation budget, and surface temperatures increase in response as the climate attempts to restore balance. The radiative forcing and subsequent radiative feedbacks dictate the amount of warming. While there are well-established observational records of greenhouse gas concentrations and surface temperatures, there is not yet a global measure of the radiative forcing, in part because current satellite observations of Earth’s radiation only measure the sum total of radiation changes that occur. We use the radiative kernel technique to isolate radiative forcing from total radiative changes and find it has increased from 2003 to 2018, accounting for nearly all of the long-term growth in the total top-of-atmosphere radiation imbalance during this period. We confirm that rising greenhouse gas concentrations account for most of the increases in the radiative forcing, along with reductions in reflective aerosols. This serves as direct evidence that anthropogenic activity has affected Earth’s energy budget in the recent past.
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We have diagnosed the global IRF directly from observations using radiative kernels. Table 1 summarizes linear trends. We find that from 2003 to 2018, the observed IRF has increased 0.53 ± 0.11 W/m2, almost entirely accounting for the positive trend in CERES TOA radiative flux anomalies (dR). The intrinsic LW and SW climate radiative responses largely cancel out. This IRF increase mostly occurs in the LW (0.43 ± 0.1 W/m2), driven by rising greenhouse gas concentrations. This serves as direct observational evidence that anthropogenic activity is impacting the Earth’s energy balance. The SW IRF has also increased (0.1 ± 0.05 W/m2). In part, this is a reflection of government-mandated aerosol emission reductions throughout major source regions, which may have a greater direct impact than inferred by the SW IRF, which does not include aerosol cloud-albedo effects in this analysis.
Observational Evidence of Increasing Global Radiative Forcing
I know that you don't comprehend nor have any hope of understanding, but the rate of change is unprecedented and stunning. The result of a rate of change exceeding a living organisms ability to adapt, or the resources the living organism depends upon in order to survive cannot adapt, is extinction. That is cold hard scientific certainty.
You sit here replying in the midst of the 6th mass extinction event in biological history happening already right now and yet you are oblivious. You live in the age of consequences and they are all around you but you won't see because you can't see until it knocks on your very door and it is closing in by the day. We're outpacing even the most dire estimations from the IPCC. Science is moving in unison towards faster and sooner rather than later.
See you in August-September.
You sit here replying in the midst of the 6th mass extinction event in biological history happening already right now and yet you are oblivious. You live in the age of consequences and they are all around you but you won't see because you can't see until it knocks on your very door and it is closing in by the day. We're outpacing even the most dire estimations from the IPCC. Science is moving in unison towards faster and sooner rather than later.
See you in August-September.
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Directing entities you have a level of power over to do something is proof of broad acceptance? Interesting take.
I just hope that these people pay a price if they are wrong. I don't claim to know what will happen but these people are making decisions that will effect billions of people's lives because they say they know.
Freud first reported on projection in an 1895 letter, in which he described a patient who tried to avoid confronting her feelings of shame by imagining that her neighbors were gossiping about her instead. Psychologists Carl Jung and Marie-Louise von Franz later argued that projection is also used to protect against the fear of the unknown, sometimes to the projector’s detriment. Within their framework, people project archetypal ideas onto things they don’t understand as part of a natural response to the desire for a more predictable and clearly-patterned world.
More recent research has challenged Freud’s hypothesis that people project to defend their egos. Projecting a threatening trait onto others may be a byproduct of the mechanism that defends the ego, rather than a part of the defense itself. Trying to suppress a thought pushes it to the mental foreground, psychologists have argued, and turns it into a chronically accessible filter through which one views the world.
Projection
And guess what? Making everyone poorer will not stop it. If we eliminated the US off the face of the earth it would drop if a few %'s.
There are billions of ppl in Latin America and China that are starving...do you think those countries will choose to say you can't have anything or do what's needed to?
The poor will decide global warming m. Not some nut bags in western government who are too dumb to understand we all share an atmosphere and have created a religion of "believe" science. Is Jesus the son of God, is Muhammed a prophet, is a hurricane in Florida global warming? All the same thing. You've created this belief where literally every weather event is climate change or else its testing your dogma.
You know what fixes it? Innovation and capitalism....invention of new energy and things that produce that energy. Not this caricature of capitalism that the var left has created bc theulyre too dumb to understand the difference between it and cronyism, corporatism, etc
To clarify why I keep pointing to Aug-Sept of this year is that we are exiting a strong 3 year cooling La Nina and entering what will probably be a strong warming El Nino which will further push warm ocean water up into the Arctic and late summer is when the sea ice extent in the arctic reaches its minimum.
NOAA: What are La Niña and El Niño and why do they matter?
In 2012 we very nearly went ice free in the arctic. It was the lowest extent on record and we were outpacing it late last year. Will this year finally be the year or do we get lucky again for 1 or 2 or 5 more? It's why you see 2030 floated around so much. Just keep in mind that you will live on a completely different planet when we do with all new rules for climate. The whole global climate system is loaded down with energy, especially the oceans and turbo charging it warming 24/7 in the arctic will shutdown the jet stream as it is powered by the temperature differential between the arctic and the equator. Enough fresh water melting off Greenland could disrupt ocean salinity enough to effect Thermohaline circulation which along with the jet stream are primary drivers of climate on the planet.
So you either die slower as a more gradual warming kills off everything you eat like say all grain crops in the Northern Hemisphere until you eventually lose habitat yourself or you die much faster when enough warm water flowing into the arctic sufficiently destabilizes methane clathrates in ESAS to kill you in a few weeks like occurred much slower over thousands of years in the Permian Extinction. 50-500gt methane pulse out of ESAS will be a very bad day on earth.
We're warming 10x faster than we did when we were warming our way out of the last ice age while putting up 250x the Co2. Let that roll around in your noggin' for a few minutes.
NOAA: What are La Niña and El Niño and why do they matter?
In 2012 we very nearly went ice free in the arctic. It was the lowest extent on record and we were outpacing it late last year. Will this year finally be the year or do we get lucky again for 1 or 2 or 5 more? It's why you see 2030 floated around so much. Just keep in mind that you will live on a completely different planet when we do with all new rules for climate. The whole global climate system is loaded down with energy, especially the oceans and turbo charging it warming 24/7 in the arctic will shutdown the jet stream as it is powered by the temperature differential between the arctic and the equator. Enough fresh water melting off Greenland could disrupt ocean salinity enough to effect Thermohaline circulation which along with the jet stream are primary drivers of climate on the planet.
So you either die slower as a more gradual warming kills off everything you eat like say all grain crops in the Northern Hemisphere until you eventually lose habitat yourself or you die much faster when enough warm water flowing into the arctic sufficiently destabilizes methane clathrates in ESAS to kill you in a few weeks like occurred much slower over thousands of years in the Permian Extinction. 50-500gt methane pulse out of ESAS will be a very bad day on earth.
We're warming 10x faster than we did when we were warming our way out of the last ice age while putting up 250x the Co2. Let that roll around in your noggin' for a few minutes.
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Politics has no relevance in this thread. There are no political solutions only distractions. This thread is beyond politics as there simply isn't time to gain enough political influence to have any meaning.
You are all perfectly free to keep your money and to count it out loud. As I said before, show it to your families so they know what you traded them for.
They also possess the best information to make these decisions.
There is only one certain way to stop the human pollution of earth’s waters, land and air: Stop reproducing people and let the total population drop below 5 billion, a number which can be sustained.
Of course, this isn’t going to happen and there will be twice that number by 2050. So the best thing to do is to just party and let the good times roll until they don’t anymore.
Dumbest thing I've read in this entire thread. Impressive.
Actually, some anthropologists and number crunchers believe that the population will peak and start to decrease over the next 25 years.
just read China is now at zero growth and the US is only like .1% That's good news IMO.
It isn’t the number of people alone that is ruining the earth. Developing countries want the same luxuries and conveniences as the rest of the world.
Brazil, for example, is in the process of converting the Amazon region to savannah. That region produces 20% of earth’s oxygen.
Even our present population of 8 billion is not sustainable in the long term. Unless there is a collective change in the human mindset that acknowledges our effects on the environment and we begin to reduce our population via attrition, our species is destined to reap the consequences of “crapping where we eat.”
I don’t see that happening so I guess we’d better start thinking about how to recycle our waste.
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Not good for China. They are going to find a population hole that they better resolve or it may really impact their economy.
I think this is most likely wrong. It completely discounts human ingenuity. We claim that global warming is harming people, yet poverty is at an all time low, I believe. Things are supposed to be getting worse, yet people are living better in parts of the world where there has been real pain. The idea that there is one factor that dictates our future and that factor is population rejects a lot and is very linear thinking.
Discussing global population, poverty, politics, the environment in general... these are all worthy and important things, but you have to understand climate change is an existential threat not just to our survival in an immediate sense, but the planet itself. You are distracting yourselves with peripheral issues that are insignificant to your immediate survival.
We like to look backwards at the wax and wane of planetary climate changes and comfort ourselves with the old "the climate has changed before" while we whistle past the graveyard. You believe that even in the worst case scenario and we all die that eventually the planet will recover because that's the way it has always been even at earth's worst like the Dinosaurs going extinct.
If we go the planet goes. 480 unattended nuclear power plants around the globe ensures that. There will be no million year recovery like in the Permian Extinction. There will be a dry rock with no atmosphere and no water scoured clean. No trace of anything left on the surface.
Find miracle technology to stave off climate change or all else has no significance. We better make sure the arctic doesn't go ice free late this summer no matter what else. BOE is the point of no return for a relatively stable climate.
We like to look backwards at the wax and wane of planetary climate changes and comfort ourselves with the old "the climate has changed before" while we whistle past the graveyard. You believe that even in the worst case scenario and we all die that eventually the planet will recover because that's the way it has always been even at earth's worst like the Dinosaurs going extinct.
If we go the planet goes. 480 unattended nuclear power plants around the globe ensures that. There will be no million year recovery like in the Permian Extinction. There will be a dry rock with no atmosphere and no water scoured clean. No trace of anything left on the surface.
Find miracle technology to stave off climate change or all else has no significance. We better make sure the arctic doesn't go ice free late this summer no matter what else. BOE is the point of no return for a relatively stable climate.
Well, that’s certainly close minded. You don’t seem to recognize any connection between human population growth and its effects upon the environment.
The “climate change” debate has completely overshadowed the accelerating destruction of forests and other habitats for animals and plants. Are you aware that the Aral Sea has completely dried up? That there were 225,000 lions 50 years ago but only 20,000 now? That there are Snow Crab “deserts” in the North Pacific because of over-harvesting, having declined by 83% since 2018? That half of earth’s coral reefs are dead? I could recite examples of humanity’s effects like these all day.
“Human ingenuity” is directed to making our population larger at the expense of other species and environments. Do you really want the earth to become just a big urban mega city with zoos and museums showing how it used to be? Should we use our ingenuity to create only human habitations? We can inhabit any place on earth and grow our population there. But should we?
When God said, “Go forth and multiply,” did He mean for us to use all of the planet?
Considering the state of our effects upon earth, Soylent Green was a prescient movie. It indicates what will happen with extreme overpopulation. There was nothing left to eat but bland Soylent, with the most sought-after being the green variety.
Is that the future we want for earth and humanity?
Catemus is making outstanding and very important points. The... collapse... for lack of a better word of animal population across the globe is a symptom of climate change combined with a number of other human factors such as basic environmental encroachment.
According to the Living Planet Index, a metric that's been in existence for five decades, animal populations across the world shrunk by an average of 69% between 1970 and 2018.
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Monitored populations of vertebrates (mammals, birds, amphibians, reptiles and fish) have seen a devastating 69% drop on average since 1970, according to World Wildlife Fund’s (WWF) Living Planet Report 2022. Populations in Latin America and the Caribbean have fared worst, with an average decline of 94%. Global freshwater species have also been disproportionately impacted, declining 83% on average.
69% average decline in wildlife populations since 1970, says new WWF report
It's why I've referenced multiple times in this thread that you are living in the midst of the 6th mass extinction event in biological history and you don't even know it.
A mass extinction is a short period of geological time in which a high percentage of biodiversity, or distinct species—bacteria, fungi, plants, mammals, birds, reptiles, amphibians, fish, invertebrates—dies out. In this definition, it’s important to note that, in geological time, a ‘short’ period can span thousands or even millions of years. The planet has experienced five previous mass extinction events, the last one occurring 65.5 million years ago which wiped out the dinosaurs from existence. Experts now believe we’re in the midst of a sixth mass extinction.
Unlike previous extinction events caused by natural phenomena, the sixth mass extinction is driven by human activity, primarily (though not limited to) the unsustainable use of land, water and energy use, and climate change. Currently, 40% of all land has been converted for food production. Agriculture is also responsible for 90% of global deforestation and accounts for 70% of the planet’s freshwater use, devastating the species that inhabit those places by significantly altering their habitats. It’s evident that where and how food is produced is one of the biggest human-caused threats to species extinction and our ecosystems. To make matters worse, unsustainable food production and consumption are significant contributors to greenhouse gas emissions that are causing atmospheric temperatures to rise, wreaking havoc across the globe. The climate crisis is causing everything from severe droughts to more frequent and intense storms. It also exacerbates the challenges associated with food production that stress species, while creating conditions that make their habitats inhospitable. Increased droughts and floods have made it more difficult to maintain crops and produce sufficient food in some regions. The intertwined relationships among the food system, climate change, and biodiversity loss are placing immense pressure on our planet.
What is the sixth mass extinction and what can we do about it?
One of the most unbelievable statistics you will ever read is that of all the living mammals on earth 60% are cattle, 36% are human... and 4% are wild animals.
According to the Living Planet Index, a metric that's been in existence for five decades, animal populations across the world shrunk by an average of 69% between 1970 and 2018.
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Monitored populations of vertebrates (mammals, birds, amphibians, reptiles and fish) have seen a devastating 69% drop on average since 1970, according to World Wildlife Fund’s (WWF) Living Planet Report 2022. Populations in Latin America and the Caribbean have fared worst, with an average decline of 94%. Global freshwater species have also been disproportionately impacted, declining 83% on average.
69% average decline in wildlife populations since 1970, says new WWF report
It's why I've referenced multiple times in this thread that you are living in the midst of the 6th mass extinction event in biological history and you don't even know it.
A mass extinction is a short period of geological time in which a high percentage of biodiversity, or distinct species—bacteria, fungi, plants, mammals, birds, reptiles, amphibians, fish, invertebrates—dies out. In this definition, it’s important to note that, in geological time, a ‘short’ period can span thousands or even millions of years. The planet has experienced five previous mass extinction events, the last one occurring 65.5 million years ago which wiped out the dinosaurs from existence. Experts now believe we’re in the midst of a sixth mass extinction.
Unlike previous extinction events caused by natural phenomena, the sixth mass extinction is driven by human activity, primarily (though not limited to) the unsustainable use of land, water and energy use, and climate change. Currently, 40% of all land has been converted for food production. Agriculture is also responsible for 90% of global deforestation and accounts for 70% of the planet’s freshwater use, devastating the species that inhabit those places by significantly altering their habitats. It’s evident that where and how food is produced is one of the biggest human-caused threats to species extinction and our ecosystems. To make matters worse, unsustainable food production and consumption are significant contributors to greenhouse gas emissions that are causing atmospheric temperatures to rise, wreaking havoc across the globe. The climate crisis is causing everything from severe droughts to more frequent and intense storms. It also exacerbates the challenges associated with food production that stress species, while creating conditions that make their habitats inhospitable. Increased droughts and floods have made it more difficult to maintain crops and produce sufficient food in some regions. The intertwined relationships among the food system, climate change, and biodiversity loss are placing immense pressure on our planet.
What is the sixth mass extinction and what can we do about it?
One of the most unbelievable statistics you will ever read is that of all the living mammals on earth 60% are cattle, 36% are human... and 4% are wild animals.
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As if the impact on mammal populations wasn't enough insects haven't fared much better:
“Defaunation in the Anthropocene” was the first metaanalysis to report global cross-lineage insect losses for beetles, dragonflies, grasshoppers, and butterflies. Across 16 studies, insect populations had declined by 45% in the last four decades. In spring 2017, Vogel (60) published early findings from Germany’s Krefeld Entomological Society (Entomologischer Verein Krefeld), documenting steep, unexplained reductions of flying insects, across more than 60 sites in northwest Germany (all within preserves). Later that year, the first peer-reviewed report in English from the Krefeld data appeared (13): Flying insect biomass had dropped by 76% in 27 y, a finding that made global headlines.
Insect decline in the Anthropocene: Death by a thousand cuts
For clarification purposes below is the definition of Anthropocene:
“Defaunation in the Anthropocene” was the first metaanalysis to report global cross-lineage insect losses for beetles, dragonflies, grasshoppers, and butterflies. Across 16 studies, insect populations had declined by 45% in the last four decades. In spring 2017, Vogel (60) published early findings from Germany’s Krefeld Entomological Society (Entomologischer Verein Krefeld), documenting steep, unexplained reductions of flying insects, across more than 60 sites in northwest Germany (all within preserves). Later that year, the first peer-reviewed report in English from the Krefeld data appeared (13): Flying insect biomass had dropped by 76% in 27 y, a finding that made global headlines.
Insect decline in the Anthropocene: Death by a thousand cuts
For clarification purposes below is the definition of Anthropocene:
- The current geological age, viewed as the period during which human activity has been the dominant influence on climate and the environment.
"some geologists argue that the Anthropocene began with the Industrial Revolution"
So if animal and insect populations are rapidly declining then how safe is agriculture and... us?
At a basic primal level you understand what is going on around you. You can tell this is not normal and it is why hmt5000's family was alarmed and he had to comfort them with lies about how this is all normal cyclical climate change. Even without knowing all the scientific data telling you clearly what is happening you know it is not good and it gnaws at you. That lingering feeling that things are about to get a whole lot worse but you don't know what to do about it.
That's your survival instincts talking to you.
All of civilization depends upon the ability to grow, store, and transport grain at scale. You won't have the rule of law, governments, or large human populations living together peacefully anywhere without it.
At a basic primal level you understand what is going on around you. You can tell this is not normal and it is why hmt5000's family was alarmed and he had to comfort them with lies about how this is all normal cyclical climate change. Even without knowing all the scientific data telling you clearly what is happening you know it is not good and it gnaws at you. That lingering feeling that things are about to get a whole lot worse but you don't know what to do about it.
That's your survival instincts talking to you.
All of civilization depends upon the ability to grow, store, and transport grain at scale. You won't have the rule of law, governments, or large human populations living together peacefully anywhere without it.
That's some solid copying and pasting, my friend. Even if I accept the scientific conclusions you dutifully copied as true, the real challenge is getting China and India to reduce their emissions. The U.S. has reduced its GHG emissions for a quite a number of years now. What you and I do regarding climate change is pissing in the wind as long as they keep churning out the emissions.
Please replicate this post on Chinese and Indian message boards. You'll be doing a world of good. TIA.
You're not going to reduce your way out of anything. That time has passed. Matter of fact, we'll warm even faster. I've explained this multiple times. It was on full display during the COVID shutdowns:
The lockdowns and reduced societal activity related to the COVID-19 pandemic affected emissions of pollutants in ways that slightly warmed the planet for several months last year, according to new research. The counterintuitive finding highlights the influence of airborne particles, or aerosols, that block incoming sunlight.
COVID-19 lockdowns temporarily raised global temperatures, research shows Reductions in aerosol emissions had slight warming impact, study finds
We have a slight hope of some technological advance perhaps but we must not let the arctic go ice free in the mean time. There are cascading feedback loops that will be unstoppable. That is a line in the sand that cannot be crossed.
Finnish President Sauli Niinistö: "If we lose the Arctic, we lose the globe."
Climate changes have and always had to do with our relationship to the sun. Not c02s. So until we can control our axix tilts changes and magnetic field controlling the parts of the planet the receieve more direct uv radiation then the rest is is just laughable tax dollar controlling narcissism.
P.s. we should leave the axis stuff alone lol. We will really kill ourselves off once we meddle in something actually serious
P.s. we should leave the axis stuff alone lol. We will really kill ourselves off once we meddle in something actually serious
I read my post and your post and I question whether you know the meaning of “close-minded.” And you close with a prediction that Soylent Green was prophetic. Look, I don’t doubt that some crazed politicians and scientists will confuse humanity for food, but I doubt they come out of my camp, but rather the camp that sees no hope for humanity. And, checkout the most recent news about the Great Barrier Reef. It will make your day!!
Did humans do that?
So what do you suggest? Sounds like we're screwed regardless, so why are we sacrificing our economy and security for pointless "green" policies? You're a faithful copy-paste St. Greta acolyte, but that's not incredibly useful.
The summary of that article is not as rosy as you seem to think. Viewed objectively, it describes an environment that still faces powerful adversaries, such as crown-of-thorns starfish and high temperature water.
And it’s just one example of an area where conservationists are trying hard to prevent catastrophic results. Coral reefs all over the earth are facing extinction. There is an endless list of situations all over the earth where humanity is negatively affecting the environment.
Threats to coral reefs:
My stance is that the unregulated growth of the human population is doing irreversible damage to our world, and that the only solution includes a radical reduction in our numbers. However, I’m extremely pessimistic that we, as a species, can stop the destruction.
Here’s all you need to know, that’s just one person. Kerry and the rest are just carrying the flagsThe summary of that article is not as rosy as you seem to think. Viewed objectively, it describes an environment that still faces powerful adversaries, such as crown-of-thorns starfish and high temperature water.
And it’s just one example of an area where conservationists are trying hard to prevent catastrophic results. Coral reefs all over the earth are facing extinction. There is an endless list of situations all over the earth where humanity is negatively affecting the environment.
Threats to coral reefs:
My stance is that the unregulated growth of the human population is doing irreversible damage to our world, and that the only solution includes a radical reduction in our numbers. However, I’m extremely pessimistic that we, as a species, can stop the destruction.
