And collective bargaining isn't capitalism?
You've obviously never viewed many discussions about pro athlete salaries. That said, you missed the point...imagine that?
GM to import Chinese built SUV to U.S.
- Thread starter BigSexyCat
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You've obviously never viewed many discussions about pro athlete salaries. That said, you missed the point...imagine that?
How exactly did I miss the point? Megablue was whining about capitalism and you joined in listing the execs salaries. I merely pointed out that the execs made it possible for the union guys to get a large bonus. Never said anything against the union. Maybe you're the one that missed the point? imagine that?
Mwnagement and Labor help each other get bonuses.
More than likely the 10000 that's been shown is an average of everyone, that includes the executives.
More than likely the 10000 that's been shown is an average of everyone, that includes the executives.
I don't know for sure how it works. They were just saying on the news that Ford workers were getting the $10000 before Christmas even though the Louisville plants voted against the new contract that barely passed.
Executive salaries are fun to talk about for the uneducated, but they don't equate to squate in the big picture. The amount of overpaid workers on one line at Ford or gm equals more than the salary of the ceo. And there are 10's of thousands of hourly employees.
Don't try to tell me an organization cares about its employees, when it vehemently worked to remove secret ballot voting from its employees.
Don't try to tell me an organization cares about its employees, when it vehemently worked to remove secret ballot voting from its employees.
So labor doesn't have any contribution to the process that makes the bonuses possible?
Where f*** did I say anything like that? Of course the workers are important to the company. You seem to just hear/read what you want to believe.
So wait, does that mean the US Bailout of GM is now funding The Chinese?
Bravo.
Bravo.
shareholders. businesses exist to only make their shareholders more money. don't let the phrases like "a better future" or "investing in america" fool you. GM exists to make money. facebook exists to make money. my fiance exists to spend my money. tim tebow doesn't sleep with women. these are facts we cannot change.
German cars have improved in quality in recent years, but just a few years ago, Mercedes was the worst manufacturer in terms of quality in consumer reports annual car magazine. BMW wasn't much better. The European manufacturers had horrible quality control. Much worse than American manufacturers. They have improved significantly since then, but to suggest that they have historically built a significantly better product is sticking your head in the sand.
If I may chime in. I am a uaw ford worker at ford's Louisville assembly plant. We received an $8,500 signing bonus for our new contract. The other $1, 500 is profit sharing for next year that they are paying forward. They did that In order to mislead the populace, looks like it worked. I have a great job, and won't complain about my pay or benefits. But would like to post this one fact... Our pay has actually decreased over the past decade. In an environment of record sales, and all time record profits my pay rate has decreased. We just signed a 4 year agreement, and in 2019 we will still be making less than we did in 2006.
So you did get a $10,000 bonus. Nothing misleading there.
What is your hourly wage? I'm betting its pretty decent.
********. It's just that people that drop 80-120k on a German car are discerning, perfectionist douchebags that complain a lot. Thus, you hear about quality issues.
Go look at consumer reports on Refrigerators...everybody knows the Rolls Royce of fridges is your SubZero. They get consistently the worst marks out there and lose to Whirlpool and Maytag... Why? Because the unwashed buying those others don't give a **** or don't bother complaining when their ice maker stops working. You drop $8K on a fridge and a crisper drawer is sticking - you bet your *** that Flo Baldridge at the Country Club will be on the horn in seconds to the warranty department.
GM in particular has had MASSIVE recalls for various reasons. Not quality - killing people with poor design, materials AND oversight.
Survival of the fittest. If these companies failed - the taxpayer should not hold the bill.
The American Car MFGR should evolve like Tesla and be the craft brew of the world's producers... Make the best and lead the industry by innovation and technology not quantity of units.
This is the way it used to be (Auburn, Cord).
Regardless of the total $$$ the fact remains that while those executives who were directly responsible for the decisions that were bankrupting the Big 3 continued to lavish and fit themselves with golden parachutes at the same time they were laying off thousands of workers and cutting pay in real terms for everyone but themselves. In difficult times why should those at the top be exempt from the pain? At the time the Big 3 were at their height their CEOs were earning "only" about 25 times those wages of the average line worker and now they need 500 times those wages???
It isn't as if the automaker execs had put their life savings on the line and were being rewarded for the risks they took. I've got no problem with people who take the risks and are rewarded...Elon Musk deserves every penny he takes from Tesla because he put his own personal net worth on the line. One of the reasons that German auto execs salaries are so much lower compared to the US is that the labor unions have a seat at the table that determine the compensation of both management and labor. Personally, I think that's a damn good idea.
I have a few comments. First, I agree that GM should have gone bankrupt with no taxpayer support. The market should decide who survives and who dies, not some government politician. My comments, in no way, suggest otherwise.
Second, you have an interesting theory on the statistics in consumer reports. However, they do not use complaints to the warranty department as the basis for their reliability statistics. They are done through consumer surveys. That being said, there could potentially be survey biases that skew the results. Japanese car owners may be more conditioned to believe their cars are very reliable and therefore don't report report anything but major issues. American car owners could be conditioned to think their vehicles aren't as reliable, and therefore tend to report everything that squeaks, breaks, or doesn't fit exactly as they think it should. And luxury car owners might also complain more because they paid so much more for the car they think everything should be perfect. All of that, however, is mere conjecture, and without any factual basis to back it up, does nothing to dispute the findings in consumer reports. If you look today, you will see that the German manufacturers have improved significantly over years past. If you go back 10 years or so, Mercedes had significant reliability problems with many of their vehicles and that explains why they were dead last in some of the findings..
I agree with you that executive salaries have gotten out of hand in some cases. However, that is a problem with the board of directors. The board is charged with protecting shareholder interests, and that should start with making sure compensation is based on performance and not just given as a part of being hired. I have no problem with anyone making millions if their performance leads to the investors also adding significant wealth.
I believe it's called a tarrif or tax on imported cars. Level playing fields but that still won't save jobs because WalMart buys most of the good they sell and the consumer buys from China. If you want to bring jobs back to America, boycot walmart. But that won't happen because people will buy at the cheapest price, period.
It's a free market. Buy what you want wherever you want to buy it and American will choose the cheapest price.
How often do pro athletes and movie stars lose their job because a third world country offers a cheaper salary?
What does that have to do with anything? We were talking about ridiculously high salaries.
But I'll play. How many jobs do athletes or movie stars (themselves) create?
First off what I said has 100% to do with what we were discussing. If GM were keeping jobs in America and paying everyone on the factory floor a living wage nobody would care how much the executives are paid. You could make the CEOs pay a trillion dollars and no one would care as long as the employees are taken care of. But instead jobs are shipped overseas under the ruse of "we can't afford to pay our employees" while executives keep getting huge raises.
Second. Have you ever watched the credits of a movie? Or been to a basketball game? Hundreds if not thousands of jobs are created. Some are crummy seasonal jobs but they are jobs that wouldn't exist otherwise.
Very rough math-all of those salaries add up to about $60,000,000. Take all of that money and Divide that by Ford's 225,000 employees-they each take home about $260 more per year.
And if you factor in Mulally's new Taurus, that number would be about $260 per year.