Goldwire playing time

[FLawLesS_NoLe]

Why did Goldwire all of a sudden get 30+ min a game? The offense suffers when he plays that much. He is good in spurts with tenacious defense and energy. But to now suddenly become one of the main pillars of the team has hurt Duke, especially on offense.

He is averaging 4pts a game and allows the opposing defense to immediately come and double Carey because they can ignore him standing around.

Not saying he shouldn't play but just the team was at its best when Goldwire was given spot minutes (like Baker gets) instead of a full time role.

 

[Buzzooka Joe]

Moore’s injury

 

[FLawLesS_NoLe]

Moore’s injury

Baker doesnt get starter minutes. White, AOC, Delaurier, all are given spot minutes. Same should be with Goldwire. Put him in to give Tre a breather.

Seems like he has become a "K favorite" and usually that means minutes justified because of upper classman status & effort instead of true talent deserving. See Matt Jones, Tyler Thornton etc....

You can't deny how bad the offense looked in the final minutes with Goldwire & Tre roaming the perimeter together. I trust Tre but Goldwire hasn't proven it yet.

 

[dukiejay]

Jordan is playing a lot more than I’d like to see, as well, but it’s partially due to Moore’s injury and because Alex just hasn’t been able to take hold of opportunities.

 

[DiehardDukeFan4Life]

Baker doesnt get starter minutes. White, AOC, Delaurier, all are given spot minutes. Same should be with Goldwire. Put him in to give Tre a breather.

Seems like he has become a "K favorite" and usually that means minutes justified because of upper classman status & effort instead of true talent deserving. See Matt Jones, Tyler Thornton etc....

You can't deny how bad the offense looked in the final minutes with Goldwire & Tre roaming the perimeter together. I trust Tre but Goldwire hasn't proven it yet.

White is averaging 19.3 mpg, AOC is averaging 14.5 mpg and DeLaurier is averaging 14.1 mpg. I would hardly call those spot minutes. The only players that we have that are playing what I would consider spot minutes are Justin Robinson and Mike Buckmire. Everyone else is averaging at least 14mpg.

 

[denverexpat]

I'm a big fan of a dual threat backcourt. Makes it easier to absorb a poor night for one PG scoring. The commentators on the Miami/FSU game were discussing the best backcourts in the ACC...it was a good debate but one guy thought you need at least 3 in the backcourt to be effective. With Moore out we dont have an effective 3. We need either AOC or GW to pick up that mantra and be more of a contributor. They are certainly being given the mins to prove they can ( or cant)

 

[LouisiAaron]

He's playing more because Moore is out now. Moore would've definitely played a lot the last two games. He can play elite defense but he's more aggressive scoring than Goldwire. We will need that in the end. At least Goldwire is gaining this experience for the tournament when Tre gets in foul trouble or something

 

[Ioliva]

Why did Goldwire all of a sudden get 30+ min a game? The offense suffers when he plays that much. He is good in spurts with tenacious defense and energy. But to now suddenly become one of the main pillars of the team has hurt Duke, especially on offense.

He is averaging 4pts a game and allows the opposing defense to immediately come and double Carey because they can ignore him standing around.

Not saying he shouldn't play but just the team was at its best when Goldwire was given spot minutes (like Baker gets) instead of a full time role.

Lol goldwire hurts the offense? Half the time all our guys do is switch at the three or played hero ball and you’re concerned with gold wires limitations? How many times did tre and Cassius take the ball into the entire Louisville team without passing it? What stalls our offense is a lack of movement, you can’t tell me that every one of Louisville’s players are gifted scorers. How come they can figure out ways to score and we can’t? Simple, our offense is ridiculously simple at times.

 

[LouisiAaron]

Lol goldwire hurts the offense? Half the time all our guys do is switch at the three or played hero ball and you’re concerned with gold wires limitations? How many times did tre and Cassius take the ball into the entire Louisville team without passing it? What stalls our offense is a lack of movement, you can’t tell me that every one of Louisville’s players are gifted scorers. How come they can figure out ways to score and we can’t? Simple, our offense is ridiculously simple at times.

We don’t really have an offense. We don’t call plays. We score because we just have better talent than other people. Kind of like Kentucky but with a little more structure

 

[Mac9192]

White is averaging 19.3 mpg, AOC is averaging 14.5 mpg and DeLaurier is averaging 14.1 mpg. I would hardly call those spot minutes. The only players that we have that are playing what I would consider spot minutes are Justin Robinson and Mike Buckmire. Everyone else is averaging at least 14mpg.

Each player’s average minutes per game is misleading. Easy to say Alex averages 14.5 minutes a game as a whole, when you factor in all the blowouts. He played 2 tonight, and 12 against Clemson. Not that he deserved a lot more than that.

 

[timo0402]

Each player’s average minutes per game is misleading. Easy to say Alex averages 14.5 minutes a game as a whole, when you factor in all the blowouts. He played 2 tonight, and 12 against Clemson. Not that he deserved a lot more than that.

I agree with this and with what @FLawLesS_NoLe said. Reality is Alex, to me, has played himself pretty close to out of the rotation. Jordan is playing too many minutes imo, and i agree it reminds me of the Thornton situation where K just trusts him but i don’t see the production that warrants the 25 plus min he’s been getting. Don’t get me wrong, the kid has improved drastically and has earned a role on this team for sure. Just can’t afford to have him playing 25+, it hinders us offensively and i don’t think his defense offsets it enough.

 

[sheyduke]

Mac9192 said:

↑



Each player’s average minutes per game is misleading. Easy to say Alex averages 14.5 minutes a game as a whole, when you factor in all the blowouts. He played 2 tonight, and 12 against Clemson. Not that he deserved a lot more than that.

I agree with this and with what @FLawLesS_NoLe said. Reality is Alex, to me, has played himself pretty close to out of the rotation. Jordan is playing too many minutes imo, and i agree it reminds me of the Thornton situation where K just trusts him but i don’t see the production that warrants the 25 plus min he’s been getting. Don’t get me wrong, the kid has improved drastically and has earned a role on this team for sure. Just can’t afford to have him playing 25+, it hinders us offensively and i don’t think his defense offsets it enough.
[/quote]
Timo, the offset to this is who do you play? Alex and Baker are Wild cards and Moore is out. Hurt , Carey, Tre and Stanley are Dukes main offensive players .

Last night Duke needed one more shooter on the floor to keep the defense honest but no one was hitting

 

[timo0402]

I agree with this and with what @FLawLesS_NoLe said. Reality is Alex, to me, has played himself pretty close to out of the rotation. Jordan is playing too many minutes imo, and i agree it reminds me of the Thornton situation where K just trusts him but i don’t see the production that warrants the 25 plus min he’s been getting. Don’t get me wrong, the kid has improved drastically and has earned a role on this team for sure. Just can’t afford to have him playing 25+, it hinders us offensively and i don’t think his defense offsets it enough.

Timo, the offset to this is who do you play? Alex and Baker are Wild cards and Moore is out. Hurt , Carey, Tre and Stanley are Dukes main offensive players .

Last night Duke needed one more shooter on the floor to keep the defense honest but no one was hitting[/QUOTE]
That’s a great question. No one was hitting last night but if i had to choose who I’d rather trust shooting the ball between Jordan or Joey, Alex. Jordan would be third on that list. Don’t get me wrong here. His improvement has been great, i just didn’t think him on the floor when we needed scores helped us at the end. Because he’s essentially played off of on offense, it clogs driving lanes.

 

[Ioliva]

We don’t really have an offense. We don’t call plays. We score because we just have better talent than other people. Kind of like Kentucky but with a little more structure

exactly and that’s the worst part. We’ve been this way for a while.seldom running a structured offense or any set plays since we went full on the one and done press. The problem is that we don’t have any super star offensive players in my opinion ( besides Carey) and when the going gets tough like last night we don’t know what to do. That’s what bothers me, this team is super young and doesn’t have the offensive talent to come up with everything on their own. We need something in place for situations like last night and SFA when the team obviously doesn’t know what to do to buy a MUCH needed bucket. The talents working as best they can with their limitations but the coaching isn’t there.

 

[shicashicu]

I'm sorry, but until these last 2 games this has been as beautiful of a team to watch move the ball as any Duke has had in many years.

Also, K has been coaching almost flawlessly this season and back to back games where the team simply decides not to play hard for almost the entire first half has nothing to do with K either.

However, one of his biggest and only blunders this season was not having Big Vern in the game in the last 2+ minutes last night. I'm sorry, but the fact the Vern isn't shooting FTs well simply does not offset the attention he requires from the opponent, his rebounding, and his ability to score inside when we need a bucket and our guards can't get open. This was a mistake on K's part, but other than that the man has coached incredibly well.

 

[LouisiAaron]

exactly and that’s the worst part. We’ve been this way for a while.seldom running a structured offense or any set plays since we went full on the one and done press. The problem is that we don’t have any super star offensive players in my opinion ( besides Carey) and when the going gets tough like last night we don’t know what to do. That’s what bothers me, this team is super young and doesn’t have the offensive talent to come up with everything on their own. We need something in place for situations like last night and SFA when the team obviously doesn’t know what to do to buy a MUCH needed bucket. The talents working as best they can with their limitations but the coaching isn’t there.

Don’t you dare criticize Coach K coaching on this board. They’re coming for you now. When I criticize him they call me the Coach in waiting hahaha

 

[Liftee]

Simple reason for Goldwire playing: toughness. He is one tough dude. And I don't want to get into a comparison with Thornton, who frankly didn't have D I talent, but Goldwire is IMO equal to or better than Tre as an on ball defender and is at least passable on offense (when he remembers how to make layups). He's probably playing about 8 minutes too much which will go down when Moore comes back, another tough and physical guy.

 

[skysdad]

What a finiky group we are. Goldwire needs more pt. Why is Goldwire getting so much pt ? Alex needs some pt . As soon as he messes up Coach K is taking him out. What's Baker doing on the bench? Get Baker out , he's not hitting and he can't play D. Javin is useless. We need to see more of Javin. He blocks shots and rebounds. Why isn't Vernon playing? Maybe it's because he's in foul trouble and missing free throws. Tre's missing free throws and he's been careless with the ball. We got to have Tre on the court. Sorry guys, just having a little fun. Having opinions and discussions about court situations is what keeps this board going. A lot of you do have great insight on what's going on. You are a great bunch to post with. To be seriously we need to start thinking about who is to follow Coach K. OFC

 

[Liftee]

Not only do we have a lot of opinions, but probably if we read enough of our own posts, we'll find that we have argued both sides of the same argument more than once.

BTW, is "finiky" related to "finny"? Just wondering.

 

[skysdad]

Not only do we have a lot of opinions, but probably if we read enough of our own posts, we'll find that we have argued both sides of the same argument more than once.

BTW, is "finiky" related to "finny"? Just wondering.

LOL, probably spelled it wrong. OFC

 

[timo0402]

Don’t you dare criticize Coach K coaching on this board. They’re coming for you now. When I criticize him they call me the Coach in waiting hahaha

Say it a few more times so that you really believe it’s true.

 

[hart2chesson]

To be seriously we need to start thinking about who is to follow Coach K. OFC

Sky you've got something there! I think it was Pisgah just the other day who said we need a thread on that....OFC

 

[LouisiAaron]

Say it a few more times so that you really believe it’s true.

I guess you're one of those that think I'll be the next coach, too. I never said it before. Y'all think so though

 

[timo0402]

I guess you're one of those that think I'll be the next coach, too. I never said it before. Y'all think so though

I’ve never chimed in on your coaching prospects. Not my style. I was merely referencing the over played message board cliche based on zero factual basis that you are not allowed to criticize the coach without being bashed for it.

 

[LouisiAaron]

I’ve never chimed in on your coaching prospects. Not my style. I was merely referencing the over played message board cliche based on zero factual basis that you are not allowed to criticize the coach without being bashed for it.

Oh you must don’t watch then. A lot of people on this board doesn’t like when someone post or blame Coach K

 

[hart2chesson]

Oh you must don’t watch then. A lot of people on this board doesn’t like when someone post or blame Coach K

You are correct per your statement dechamp. OFC

 

[timo0402]

Oh you must don’t watch then. A lot of people on this board doesn’t like when someone post or blame Coach K

You must didn’t read this very thread. There are plenty of critiques of K all over this board. Do it with class and you’re fine.

Good example- i have no idea why Vern was not in at the end of the game. I dont know why we were over playing so much on the perimeter as they got layup after layup to start the game. I would have done differently.— feel free to agree or disagree.

bad example- coach k doesn’t coach anymore, he just rolls it out there— this provides nothing and is a weak sauce post- expect to get a lot of eye rolls.

 

[dukiejay]

You must didn’t read this very thread. There are plenty of critiques of K all over this board. Do it with class and you’re fine.

Good example- i have no idea why Vern was not in at the end of the game. I dont know why we were over playing so much on the perimeter as they got layup after layup to start the game. I would have done differently.— feel free to agree or disagree.

bad example- coach k doesn’t coach anymore, he just rolls it out there— this provides nothing and is a weak sauce post- expect to get a lot of eye rolls.

Bingo. A lot of people have been critical of K since Saturday evening, myself included. But again, if it's not done kicking and screaming on the floor people just don't accept it.

It's possible to be critical without being a complete idiot. Many fail to grasp that simple concept.

 

[LouisiAaron]

You must didn’t read this very thread. There are plenty of critiques of K all over this board. Do it with class and you’re fine.

Good example- i have no idea why Vern was not in at the end of the game. I dont know why we were over playing so much on the perimeter as they got layup after layup to start the game. I would have done differently.— feel free to agree or disagree.

bad example- coach k doesn’t coach anymore, he just rolls it out there— this provides nothing and is a weak sauce post- expect to get a lot of eye rolls.

I explain everything I post so if you’re going to quote me then quote me correct and don’t pick out a small portion. I’ve given many examples of how he has shown he doesn’t coach Xs and Os anymore. Some of you are just blind seeing it because he’s the GOAT and there’s no possible way it’s his fault. If you can’t see that he’s more involved this year than previous years then maybe you just don’t understand the sport or what you’re looking at.

 

[timo0402]

I explain everything I post so if you’re going to quote me then quote me correct and don’t pick out a small portion. I’ve given many examples of how he has shown he doesn’t coach Xs and Os anymore. Some of you are just blind seeing it because he’s the GOAT and there’s no possible way it’s his fault. If you can’t see that he’s more involved this year than previous years then maybe you just don’t understand the sport or what you’re looking at.

Someone pick up my eyes, they rolled through the back of my head.

 

[Mac9192]

I explain everything I post so if you’re going to quote me then quote me correct and don’t pick out a small portion. I’ve given many examples of how he has shown he doesn’t coach Xs and Os anymore. Some of you are just blind seeing it because he’s the GOAT and there’s no possible way it’s his fault. If you can’t see that he’s more involved this year than previous years then maybe you just don’t understand the sport or what you’re looking at.

I’m going to put a different spin on it than you are. I think since he doesn’t have the elite superstar this season like he’s had in the previous 3 seasons, he’s coaching these guys more like the K of old, where he more or less managed Barrett, Bagley, and Tatum. That’s my take on K now. There were plenty of games where I think he should have sat Bagley for a few minutes but didn’t. The loss at Boston College immediately comes to mind.
I don’t agree with everything he does either, but it’s also easy to second guess from our seats.

 

[hart2chesson]

I’m going to put a different spin on it than you are. I think since he doesn’t have the elite superstar this season like he’s had in the previous 3 seasons, he’s coaching these guys more like the K of old, where he more or less managed Barrett, Bagley, and Tatum. That’s my take on K now. There were plenty of games where I think he should have sat Bagley for a few minutes but didn’t. The loss at Boston College immediately comes to mind.
I don’t agree with everything he does either, but it’s also easy to second guess from our seats.

I agree with your assessment on the BC game w/Bagley two years ago. In fact the "management" role of the guys you mentioned is probably valid.

Bottom line hes THE GOAT, and is treasured FOREVER!!! Thus really is a "right way" and "wrong way" to critique him. It should be done so respectfully.

My only thoughts toward any flawed strategy Saturday was the absence of Vernon in the critical last several minutes. Just wonder about the thinking there, and I wish he would have avoided the inference on the officiating in post game. However K may have an angle on how he's playing that one no one else knows...

I remember in the early 80s after UNC suffered a beating to UVA and Sampson at the old University Hall, Dean Smith berated the officials, saying if we have to play them again w/those officials, they'll win. The two teams squared off twice later, w/different officials and Dean won.

Regardless K knows what hes doing! Also like someone else said earlier our coach really doesnt care what others think about him. I admire that trait! #GoDuke

OFC

 

[lyonhawk]

Back on topic, I think one of our issues this year is how many guys contribute way more on one end than the other. It’s hard to get a balanced lineup with this year’s personnel. Put Goldwire, Jack, and Javin out there, and it’s hard to find points. Put in Hurt, Baker, and Carey and we can score, but we don’t defend as well. K is trying to play matchups and mix and match lineups as best he can this year to keep some offensive presence while also not turning the other end into a layup line.

 

[LouisiAaron]

Someone pick up my eyes, they rolled through the back of my head.

Men do that? Hahaha