Toggle sidebar

Good to see them back on the floor

P

PurpleWhiteBoy

Redshirt
Feb 25, 2021
5,303
0
0
GatoLouco said:
There's a very good chance you are projecting your desire (and mine) to see the Young/Nance combo as a non negotiable in our lineup.

I believe there's a better than good chance the lineup will, instead, consist of something like:
1) Buie
2) Audige
3) Williams
4) Beran
5) Nance

Why? Because that's CC's vision: five out, yada, yada. Last year, at some point during our 13 game losing streak, he moved Young to the starting five. With promising results IMO. It lasted 2 games.

So there's a chance Williams is seen as a fix to our overall softness with the Beran/Nance combo inside. Without actually moving Nance away from the 5. Positionless ball and all, you replace Kopp with more rebounding and toughness and you hope to not get killed on the boards as you were last year.

Anyway, about Williams, this is what I wrote in another thread when he transferred:

"From the fact he does shoot well, but not a lot, from three, I am assuming he is a 3/4. I don't care his numbers go down as he plays in the B1G. As long as he brings toughness, experience, he can contribute. I look at a comparable, Brandon Johnson (6'8 F) from MN:
-Last year at Western Michigan: 15.4/8.1
-At Minnesota: 8.9/6.3

Our dude:
-At FD: 13.9/7.6
-At Johnson's decrease rate, his projected NU numbers: 8.0/5.9

I'll take those stats."

Don't underestimate, mid major or not, the fact he's a 5th year senior. How much that brings, versus new blood, in terms of toughness/body strength, or experience in finding where you fit. How much better decisions you make, know your limitations, etc, etc. I would not be shocked to see Williams getting 25 minutes a night.

Edit: The big difference between the Williams and Johnson situation is that Johnson came into a Gopher roster that was very very short. It has a strong core of Carr/Robbins/Kalscheur, but it had no depth. So he had to play. Williams is looking at a significantly deeper roster
Click to expand...

Well you and I have been on the same page with Nance and Young being the core. All the evidence bears that out. If Coach Collins refuses to play to his team's advantages, his team will underachieve again.

I don't deny that Collins may insist on playing Nance, Beran and (because those guys are finesse players) add Williams for some toughness.

But Williams is not as good as Miller Kopp and pairing Nance with Beran was a disaster last year. The lineup stats bear this out quite clearly. Nance and Beran are both 4's and they didn't work well together.

So, to me, if Williams is playing a lot, its actually a bad thing for our fortunes, an indication that Simmons is not getting it done or the coach is still clinging to that approach that you described above (positionless players). I'm okay with the philosophy, but it is meant for teams with superb athletes, and we are built like a traditional Big Ten team.

Regarding your transfer from Western Michigan - that league, the MAC, is decidedly better than that weak conference where Fairleigh Dickinson labors. NU was about 7 points better than the average MAC team last year, but the average MAC team was 7 points better than the average NEC team. And Fairleigh Dickinson was average in the NEC. So I'd guess Williams is good for 40-50% of his NEC numbers, or about 6-7 ppg and 3-4 rpg if he is playing 25 minutes a night.

I'm not trying to trash Williams, I just think our other players are more talented.
 
GatoLouco

GatoLouco

Sophomore
Nov 13, 2019
5,636
116
63
PurpleWhiteBoy said:
Well you and I have been on the same page with Nance and Young being the core. All the evidence bears that out. If Coach Collins refuses to play to his team's advantages, his team will underachieve again.

I don't deny that Collins may insist on playing Nance, Beran and (because those guys are finesse players) add Williams for some toughness.

But Williams is not as good as Miller Kopp and pairing Nance with Beran was a disaster last year. The lineup stats bear this out quite clearly. Nance and Beran are both 4's and they didn't work well together.

So, to me, if Williams is playing a lot, its actually a bad thing for our fortunes, an indication that Simmons is not getting it done or the coach is still clinging to that approach that you described above (positionless players). I'm okay with the philosophy, but it is meant for teams with superb athletes, and we are built like a traditional Big Ten team.

Regarding your transfer from Western Michigan - that league, the MAC, is decidedly better than that weak conference where Fairleigh Dickinson labors. NU was about 7 points better than the average MAC team last year, but the average MAC team was 7 points better than the average NEC team. And Fairleigh Dickinson was average in the NEC. So I'd guess Williams is good for 40-50% of his NEC numbers, or about 6-7 ppg and 3-4 rpg if he is playing 25 minutes a night.

I'm not trying to trash Williams, I just think our other players are more talented.
Click to expand...
Of course other players are more talented. I don't think anyone can dispute that. But it's a question of being ready. Williams might be, in a way that newbies aren't.

I don't dispute the quality of the Mac vs NEC either. And theB1G is obviously bigger and faster. We saw what that did to Ryan Taylor. I guess my point with the comparison is that it's not that far fetched to think we could get some good contribution from Williams. He shoots less, but maintains percentages as he's veteran enough to adapt. He's coming in as a 5th year (with better FG percentages), while Johnson was a 4th year going to MN.

I also wrote in another thread that my dream is:
1) Buie
2) Freshman who is surprising everyone in practice being more B1G ready that what is reasonable to expect
3) Williams
4) Nance
5) Young

Audige providing the quick spark off the bench, often playing 30+ anyway. Berry also providing a solid threat off the bench. Beran/Nicholson, resting Nance/Young.

That's a lineup that, in my dreams, would not be pushed around. Would be tough on the boards. And has the bench spark to ignite the offense at any point it's not performing that well

I'm curious to see what CC comes up with. And how it will evolve, knowing that the pre-season games really tells us very little how the lineups and style will be effective in conference play. Last year, going into the conference season, everyone thought NU was a miracle of fast and prolific offensive ball. Except opponents in conference were not Chicago State.
 
P

PurpleWhiteBoy

Redshirt
Feb 25, 2021
5,303
0
0
GatoLouco said:
Of course other players are more talented. I don't think anyone can dispute that. But it's a question of being ready. Williams might be, in a way that newbies aren't.

I don't dispute the quality of the Mac vs NEC either. And theB1G is obviously bigger and faster. We saw what that did to Ryan Taylor. I guess my point with the comparison is that it's not that far fetched to think we could get some good contribution from Williams. He shoots less, but maintains percentages as he's veteran enough to adapt. He's coming in as a 5th year (with better FG percentages), while Johnson was a 4th year going to MN.

I also wrote in another thread that my dream is:
1) Buie
2) Freshman who is surprising everyone in practice being more B1G ready that what is reasonable to expect
3) Williams
4) Nance
5) Young

Audige providing the quick spark off the bench, often playing 30+ anyway. Berry also providing a solid threat off the bench. Beran/Nicholson, resting Nance/Young.

That's a lineup that, in my dreams, would not be pushed around. Would be tough on the boards. And has the bench spark to ignite the offense at any point it's not performing that well

I'm curious to see what CC comes up with. And how it will evolve, knowing that the pre-season games really tells us very little how the lineups and style will be effective in conference play. Last year, going into the conference season, everyone thought NU was a miracle of fast and prolific offensive ball. Except opponents in conference were not Chicago State.
Click to expand...
I agree with everything you wrote except I see Simmons or even Barnhizer where you have Williams. Berry or Audige should improve enough to stabilize the 2 guard.

Also, you wrote "I'm curious to see what CC comes up with..." my version would be "I'm afraid to look at what CC comes up with."

Our preseason schedule is so weak that the eye test won't even be valid.
 
W

willycat

Junior
Jan 11, 2005
21,448
318
0
PurpleWhiteBoy said:
I agree with everything you wrote except I see Simmons or even Barnhizer where you have Williams. Berry or Audige should improve enough to stabilize the 2 guard.

Also, you wrote "I'm curious to see what CC comes up with..." my version would be "I'm afraid to look at what CC comes up with."

Our preseason schedule is so weak that the eye test won't even be valid.
Click to expand...
 
F

freewillie07

Sophomore
Aug 22, 2017
5,240
100
48
Was fun to catch up on this thread during the bye week. I’m excited for basketball to start up. As always, hope springs eternal.
 
GatoLouco

GatoLouco

Sophomore
Nov 13, 2019
5,636
116
63
Fitzphile said:
If NU beats Providence and faces UVA in the Tournament we'll get a great eye test.
Click to expand...
Maybe. It’s two games. You play decent in one and you just hope you’re gonna be ok. It does not trigger changes in lineup, rotation, etc.

Remember the year we were destroyed by Fresno State? Felt like a shocker to me. Next day we beat Utah and I told myself that maybe it was a bad game, everyone has those, we were probably fine. We were not.

So many more examples. Providence after the Merrimack debacle, etc, etc.

I’m hopeful for the season. I refuse to be optimistic for my own sanity sake.
 
L

loyolacat

Freshman
Oct 21, 2006
2,699
50
48
PurpleWhiteBoy said:
Regarding your transfer from Western Michigan - that league, the MAC, is decidedly better than that weak conference where Fairleigh Dickinson labors. NU was about 7 points better than the average MAC team last year, but the average MAC team was 7 points better than the average NEC team. And Fairleigh Dickinson was average in the NEC. So I'd guess Williams is good for 40-50% of his NEC numbers, or about 6-7 ppg and 3-4 rpg if he is playing 25 minutes a night.

I'm not trying to trash Williams, I just think our other players are more talented.
Click to expand...
So by far the toughest player on the Loyola Final Four squad was Marquis Townes,,,who transferred in from Farliegh Dickinson . and the following year was dominant on both ends of the floor......all I am saying is give Williams a chance...might be surprised.
 
P

PurpleWhiteBoy

Redshirt
Feb 25, 2021
5,303
0
0
loyolacat said:
So by far the toughest player on the Loyola Final Four squad was Marquis Townes,,,who transferred in from Farliegh Dickinson . and the following year was dominant on both ends of the floor......all I am saying is give Williams a chance...might be surprised.
Click to expand...
If Williams is on the court for us, I will be rooting for him.
(I just hope others, especially Simmons, but maybe Barnhizer, limit his minutes)
 
N

NUCat320

Senior
Dec 4, 2005
19,469
495
0
PurpleWhiteBoy said:
If Williams is on the court for us, I will be rooting for him.
(I just hope others, especially Simmons, but maybe Barnhizer, limit his minutes)
Click to expand...
Analogous to Spencer, who was better than most of us could have imagined — it’ll be a great story if Williams is a good contributor, but it’ll also mean that there’s not a better option than a lower-conference transfer.

I hope Williams provides toughness and experience and leadership and about ten minutes a game.
 
N

Napcat

Redshirt
Nov 23, 2016
200
5
18
From Jon Rothstein's 5 questions about the Big Ten article:

5. Who is the sleeper?
Northwestern. It’s been four and a half years since this program reached the NCAA Tournament for the first time in school history and advanced to the Round of 32. The Wildcats haven’t finished in the Big Ten’s top 10 since, but have the requisites to make a jump this season. Chris Collins will have six juniors and seniors — Chase Audige, Boo Buie, Pete Nance, Ryan Young, Robbie Beran, and Ryan Greer — back from last season’s team that started 3-0 in Big Ten play with wins over Michigan State, Ohio State, and Indiana before finishing 9-15 overall. Northwestern could miss some of the offensive spacing that Miller Kopp — who transferred to Indiana — provided, but sophomore guard Ty Berry (5.1 points) should be able to inherit his minutes. Elyjah Williams, a 6-7 graduate transfer from Fairleigh Dickinson, is also expected to push for a spot in the rotation. The Wildcats are a combined 19-58 over the past four years in Big Ten play and have been mostly irrelevant since 2017, but the door is quietly open for teams who are normally projected to be at the bottom of the Big Ten. With programs like Iowa and Wisconsin both losing significant personnel from teams who made the NCAA Tournament last March, the opportunity for Northwestern — and others — to strike is right now. Collins has been building for a season like the one that he’s about to coach.
 
TheC

TheC

All-Conference
May 29, 2001
19,102
1,171
62
salukicat said:
From Jon Rothstein's 5 questions about the Big Ten article:

5. Who is the sleeper?
Northwestern. It’s been four and a half years since this program reached the NCAA Tournament for the first time in school history and advanced to the Round of 32. The Wildcats haven’t finished in the Big Ten’s top 10 since, but have the requisites to make a jump this season. Chris Collins will have six juniors and seniors — Chase Audige, Boo Buie, Pete Nance, Ryan Young, Robbie Beran, and Ryan Greer — back from last season’s team that started 3-0 in Big Ten play with wins over Michigan State, Ohio State, and Indiana before finishing 9-15 overall. Northwestern could miss some of the offensive spacing that Miller Kopp — who transferred to Indiana — provided, but sophomore guard Ty Berry (5.1 points) should be able to inherit his minutes. Elyjah Williams, a 6-7 graduate transfer from Fairleigh Dickinson, is also expected to push for a spot in the rotation. The Wildcats are a combined 19-58 over the past four years in Big Ten play and have been mostly irrelevant since 2017, but the door is quietly open for teams who are normally projected to be at the bottom of the Big Ten. With programs like Iowa and Wisconsin both losing significant personnel from teams who made the NCAA Tournament last March, the opportunity for Northwestern — and others — to strike is right now. Collins has been building for a season like the one that he’s about to coach.
Click to expand...
Uggh.... so now there's pressure and potential for disappointment.
 
P

PurpleWhiteBoy

Redshirt
Feb 25, 2021
5,303
0
0
salukicat said:
From Jon Rothstein's 5 questions about the Big Ten article:

5. Who is the sleeper?
Northwestern. It’s been four and a half years since this program reached the NCAA Tournament for the first time in school history and advanced to the Round of 32. The Wildcats haven’t finished in the Big Ten’s top 10 since, but have the requisites to make a jump this season. Chris Collins will have six juniors and seniors — Chase Audige, Boo Buie, Pete Nance, Ryan Young, Robbie Beran, and Ryan Greer — back from last season’s team that started 3-0 in Big Ten play with wins over Michigan State, Ohio State, and Indiana before finishing 9-15 overall. Northwestern could miss some of the offensive spacing that Miller Kopp — who transferred to Indiana — provided, but sophomore guard Ty Berry (5.1 points) should be able to inherit his minutes. Elyjah Williams, a 6-7 graduate transfer from Fairleigh Dickinson, is also expected to push for a spot in the rotation. The Wildcats are a combined 19-58 over the past four years in Big Ten play and have been mostly irrelevant since 2017, but the door is quietly open for teams who are normally projected to be at the bottom of the Big Ten. With programs like Iowa and Wisconsin both losing significant personnel from teams who made the NCAA Tournament last March, the opportunity for Northwestern — and others — to strike is right now. Collins has been building for a season like the one that he’s about to coach.
Click to expand...
Everything about that article makes sense right up until that last sentence.
You don't "build for a season" by losing at least 10 straight in the conference three years in a row.
I'd also question why this "expert" failed to mention the highest-rated recruit in NU history, incoming freshman Casey Simmons, who had better see significant playing time, and of course, 7'1" 260 lbs game-changer Matt Nicholson.
 
W

willycat

Junior
Jan 11, 2005
21,448
318
0
PurpleWhiteBoy said:
Everything about that article makes sense right up until that last sentence.
You don't "build for a season" by losing at least 10 straight in the conference three years in a row.
I'd also question why this "expert" failed to mention the highest-rated recruit in NU history, incoming freshman Casey Simmons, who had better see significant playing time, and of course, 7'1" 260 lbs game-changer Matt Nicholson.
Click to expand...
Game changer? That's a joke , right?
 
P

PurpleWhiteBoy

Redshirt
Feb 25, 2021
5,303
0
0
willycat said:
Game changer? That's a joke , right?
Click to expand...

Well, I never miss an opportunity to talk about how great a player Matt Nicholson is going to be when he finally gets to play... if I'm wrong I'm wrong, but I'm not wrong.

Young or his backup (Nicholson) needs to be on the court at all times because REBOUNDING is the dominant predictor of conference record in the Big Ten.

Nicholson is as big or bigger than the standard-bearers for NU big-men (Eschmeyer and Olah) but he is much more mobile than either of those guys, who lumbered up and down the floor. Nicholson sprints. So I am confident that he will be a force in college basketball, hopefully for NU.
 
G

GOUNUII

Junior
Jan 4, 2004
6,418
238
63
PurpleWhiteBoy said:
My take is that the guys Williams was playing against were not nearly as good as the guys our "regulars" faced in the Big Ten, so his statistics and our expectations must be significantly discounted.

Casey Simmons is the headliner of the freshmen joining the team and he is talking about the NBA, so I think Collins will play him right away. Hopefully he is a phenom. It is also possible that Julian Roper or Brooks Barnhizer will earn playing time, but not immediately.

You also have Ryan Young and Pete Nance deserving 25-30 minutes per game, you have Matt Nicholson and Robbie Beran coming off the bench, you have Boo Buie and Chase Audige both deserving to play and a reasonable expectation that Ty Berry will be a pretty good player for us.

Thats a lot of talented players competing for playing time. Admittedly, the main contenders at the "Miller Kopp" vacancy are probably Williams, Barnhizer and Simmons, but I see Williams as more of an insurance policy if those two freshmen are struggling.

Of course, we could always go with Young, Nance and 3 guards...
Click to expand...
Simmons is a raw and still somewhat awkward talent who is way behind both Barney and Roper in becoming BIG 10 body ready to play. I don’t expect much, if anything, from him before 2023. And that’s on the assumption he gets a lot stronger between now and then.

Unless Barney or Williams make a splash this year, I think we’ll see a lot of 3 guard - 2 big lineups.

GOUNUII
 
P

PurpleWhiteBoy

Redshirt
Feb 25, 2021
5,303
0
0
GOUNUII said:
Simmons is a raw and still somewhat awkward talent who is way behind both Barney and Roper in becoming BIG 10 body ready to play. I don’t expect much, if anything, from him before 2023. And that’s on the assumption he gets a lot stronger between now and then.

Unless Barney or Williams make a splash this year, I think we’ll see a lot of 3 guard - 2 big lineups.

GOUNUII
Click to expand...
If we go with 3 guards and two bigs as our base lineup, I will be very happy.
As long we don't consider Beran or Williams a "big."

Simmons is definitely not built like Barnhizer and Williams, who are about the same height but outweigh him by 30-40 lbs. But the reports say Simmons is super athletic, a good rebounder, a good defender and able to beat guys one on one. If he is out there with 2 guards and Young and Nance, we will be in good shape. If he is out there with Nance and Beran, we will get pushed around (again).

I am trying to curb my enthusiasm... but we could be pretty good.
 
F

freewillie07

Sophomore
Aug 22, 2017
5,240
100
48
PurpleWhiteBoy said:
If we go with 3 guards and two bigs as our base lineup, I will be very happy.
As long we don't consider Beran or Williams a "big."

Simmons is definitely not built like Barnhizer and Williams, who are about the same height but outweigh him by 30-40 lbs. But the reports say Simmons is super athletic, a good rebounder, a good defender and able to beat guys one on one. If he is out there with 2 guards and Young and Nance, we will be in good shape. If he is out there with Nance and Beran, we will get pushed around (again).

I am trying to curb my enthusiasm... but we could be pretty good.
Click to expand...

Pretty sure Beran and Williams would be considered Bigs.
 
P

PurpleWhiteBoy

Redshirt
Feb 25, 2021
5,303
0
0
freewillie07 said:
Pretty sure Beran and Williams would be considered Bigs.
Click to expand...
I guess what I am saying is that we have two bigs on the roster - Young and Nicholson.
Beran and Nance are natural 4s, which is why playing them together last year was a disaster.
Williams is 6'7" tall, thus not a "big." Presumably a less-talented version of Miller Kopp.

What we need to do is have Young and Nance out there together most of the game, with our 2nd big guy (Nicholson) backing up Young and Beran backing up Nance at the 4 spot.

If we do that, we will finish in the upper half of the Big Ten.
 
DaCat

DaCat

All-Conference
May 29, 2001
25,505
1,899
113
Fitzphile said:
Barnhiser looks like he has a sweet jump shot.
Click to expand...
I'm really hoping for Barnhizer to be the sleeper in the freshman class. He might be a better ball handling version of Kopp, maybe even a better shooter.
 
N

NJCat

All-Conference
Mar 7, 2016
21,327
1,502
113
DaCat said:
I'm really hoping for Barnhizer to be the sleeper in the freshman class. He might be a better ball handling version of Kopp, maybe even a better shooter.
Click to expand...
Dude was the leading scorer in the state of Indiana. He must be able to shoot it up.....
 
K

Kat burglar

Redshirt
Sep 5, 2017
231
8
18
Barnhizer had a nice step back move to create space and get his shot off. Kopp did not have a lot of moves to create a shot.
 
C

CSCatFan1

Senior
Dec 4, 2002
39,976
462
83
DaCat said:
I'm really hoping for Barnhizer to be the sleeper in the freshman class. He might be a better ball handling version of Kopp, maybe even a better shooter.
Click to expand...

He’ll need to defend if he is to get any meaningful minutes.
 
C

ctsfn

Redshirt
Mar 8, 2021
13
0
0
PurpleWhiteBoy said:
Well, I never miss an opportunity to talk about how great a player Matt Nicholson is going to be when he finally gets to play... if I'm wrong I'm wrong, but I'm not wrong.

Young or his backup (Nicholson) needs to be on the court at all times because REBOUNDING is the dominant predictor of conference record in the Big Ten.

Nicholson is as big or bigger than the standard-bearers for NU big-men (Eschmeyer and Olah) but he is much more mobile than either of those guys, who lumbered up and down the floor. Nicholson sprints. So I am confident that he will be a force in college basketball, hopefully for NU.
Click to expand...
I actually agree with the gist of this. Our rebounding should be improved this year and is key to moving up in the standings. If we improve this year it will mean that Nicholson is a contributor. Coach James has had him for over a year now and I think Matt will shock some fans.
 
N

NUCat320

Senior
Dec 4, 2005
19,469
495
0
ctsfn said:
I actually agree with the gist of this. Our rebounding should be improved this year and is key to moving up in the standings. If we improve this year it will mean that Nicholson is a contributor. Coach James has had him for over a year now and I think Matt will shock some fans.
Click to expand...
Thanks. I sure hope so.

James worked wonders with Olah, like, a decade ago. Pardon came pretty well-formed, as it turned out. Not sure have been were any other James transformation stories with post guys. And, of course, Nicholson hasn’t had his chance to even show the ‘before’ yet.
 
N

NJCat

All-Conference
Mar 7, 2016
21,327
1,502
113
NUCat320 said:
Thanks. I sure hope so.

James worked wonders with Olah, like, a decade ago. Pardon came pretty well-formed, as it turned out. Not sure have been were any other James transformation stories with post guys.
Click to expand...
Ryan Young has developed nicely after arriving in Evanston not ready for B1G basketball........
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top Bottom