That's very interesting. Collins has publicly told Lathon that the job was his to lose from Day 1. Mooney is probably aware of that, so if he wants to come to NU, he must be also figuring to get some playing time at the 2.
Grad Transfer update per the twitterverse...
- Thread starter Max_Power
- Start date
That's very interesting. Collins has publicly told Lathon that the job was his to lose from Day 1. Mooney is probably aware of that, so if he wants to come to NU, he must be also figuring to get some playing time at the 2.
Semantics. Everyone's starting job is "theirs to lose". Collins will play the best 5. He wants to win and won't let what he told a recruit stand in the way.
But I think Lathon will earn starters minutes.
There's tons of time available and tons of starts available for both Mooney and Lathon. Should Mooney sign it won't slow Lathon's development at all....might make it a little more reasonable.
It could be that we would use more of a lineup that concentrates on versatility rather than size. Lathon, Mooney, Taylor, Law, Pardon with backups in Ash, Kopp, Nance, Benson and Falzon. Sub in waves
"Lead guard" is a relatively new term, at least to me. Can a team play two lead guards at once, semantics aside?
I think Law would struggle at the 4 in the Big 10. He's got the athleticism, but the bulk isn't there. He's listed at 6'7 200lbs. That's a SF or even an SG. By contrast, Falzon is one inch taller and 30lbs heavier.
Also, don't forget about Gaines! I think he comes off the bench before Ash or Kopp.
Also, don't forget about Gaines! I think he comes off the bench before Ash or Kopp.
Can you point me to the public statement from Collins to Lathon that you're referring to? Specifically that the starting point/lead guard position was his to lose from Day 1?
while CCC and staff are really excited about the freshmen, there is a desire to stay "old" and not start over with freshmen all over the place. while the incomers will be good, they are still freshmen and are not one and done type kids. both taylor and mooney average over 18 points a game in high major ball. after last year the NU staff is trying to have as many options as possible.
There is no way Mooney is not starting if he signs! Kid is a bigger and tougher version on Bmac! Still,I think Ash will be playing twenty minutes a game
Taylor by himself makes a huge difference. My speculation would be that if they do not land Mooney they will look to either the PG grad transfers from Stanford or Vandy to fill the last spot.
A starting five of Mooney-Taylor-Turner-Law-Pardon would be exactly that...no player with less than four years experience in a collegiate program. Would allow the frosh to gradually adjust to the rigors of BIG ball and give Collins a ton of options without having sacrificing ball handling.
Consulting with my mid major scout (my buddy who is a Loyola fan and mid major junkie), he is skeptical that Mooney can bring the ball up consistently and worries a little about his quickness to play the point. This critique only relates to ball handling and defense as PG. Loves him as a player. Also loves Taylor saying that Taylor could be best player at NU since Crawford. And admits that having both could be a game changer for NU .
I would be very surprised if Lathon doesn't start, even if we do land Mooney. I have to believe that Lathon is a better ball handler than Mooney, and if surrounded by experienced players, mitigates some of the perceived risk of starting a freshman.
Regardless of who starts, if we got him, I think it’s relatively safe to say that Lathon, Mooney, Taylor would all play 20+ mins in some variety. And Law and Pardon playing 20+ minutes too. Then some combo of Turner Gaines Nance Falzon, one of them would start, and at least 2 should get regular 20+ minutes. With the others getting spot minutes, along with Benson taking 7-10 mpg to spell Dererk and Ash getting spot minutes.
Even without Mooney we have LOTS of lineup options and plenty of quality players to mix in at 2-5, just a lack of quality depth at PG. He would be a nice addition. Or another grad transfer PG if we can find one on late notice.
agree with everything you wrote.....but with the add that Kopp will get significant minutes from the start
I overlooked Gaines. Thanks for catching it. It would be the greatest quality depth I've seen at NU.
While I am the only one seemingly giving considerable thought to the notion that Law may not return, I also am wondering what if Law becomes eligible for a medical hardship waiver if he cannot bounce back to full contact, D1, P5, B!G MBB for next season - but is not permanently restricted... That would make a nice stretch out of existing talent and offer a lineup next year of: Lathon, Turner, Taylor, Nance & Pardon w Gaines, Kopp, Falzon and Benson filling out a nice rotation. Then, in 2019, at the moment: Lathon, Kopp, Law, Nance & Benson w Turner, Gaines, Falzon & Young in the mix.
I like the Mooney acquisition and think it will be a great addition, but I also am not sure 1. how it fills the LG backup void and 2. really adds to a crowded wing position. In addition to Mooney, Turner, Taylor, Kopp, probably Gaines and definitely Law are all wings. If you play LG, 3 wings and a big in a small lineup, you still only play half of them. If Mooney comes, I really, really think there is more to the Law situation than known...
I like the Mooney acquisition and think it will be a great addition, but I also am not sure 1. how it fills the LG backup void and 2. really adds to a crowded wing position. In addition to Mooney, Turner, Taylor, Kopp, probably Gaines and definitely Law are all wings. If you play LG, 3 wings and a big in a small lineup, you still only play half of them. If Mooney comes, I really, really think there is more to the Law situation than known...
Conspiracy theorist. I think this is about Chris Collins having the opportunity as a head coach to improve his team for next year. Taylor is an upgrade on paper and Mooney could be as well over the players on the roster at their positions to start the season. At a minimum, NU becomes a deeper team.
But isn't this better than the crap this board was caught up in a few weeks back. In my house, those arguments are known as "I like Pizza more than you" arguments because they are stupid and can't be won. The big exception being, of course, digging up the post about Jalen Brunson because that was awesome.
I think it's certainly possible that Lathon will start with Mooney in the equation, but not necessarily from day one.
Taylor is comfortable with ball in his hands and I don't think it would be crazy to see Vic intiate the offense on occasion either. Add Mooney to the mix and I think the 'Cats would be ib good shape with the vets out of the gate.
It's really about flexibility for Collins with his somewhat positionless approach. It's exciting to imagine NU finally having multiple players with a serviceable handle on the court at all times. Ricko's 20 min plus comment for Lathon/Mooney/Taylor is spot on.
Good info. I watched a tiny bit of South Dakota (two games) and don't think this is far off.
I'm was thinking of Mooney as more of a combo fit at LG, not necessarily someone who needs to be ball dominant traditional point. Lathon, Taylor and even Law have some ability to get things going so Mooney wouldn't need to be BMac. I don't he would need to log BMac minutes either.
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Still feeling that Lathon will get the vast majority of the minutes at LG and from game one. I have no idea what Taylor or Mooney would bring to the guard position, as far as ball handling and running the offense goes but Law is definitely not a ball handler or a assist machine. Just keep him at the 3.
I agree, Willy. Bryant McIntosh had the following minutes played in his first games at NU, and that was WITH a returning starting PG:
35
34
34
38
32
Collins isn't afraid to turn the team over to a true Freshman, and if Lathon is as good as advertised I believe he will see similar minutes. Collins also seems to like to run a 7 or 8 man rotation, so a bunch of guys each getting 20-25 minutes would be new territory for him. But he has never had a deep, healthy 13 man roster either.
Don't really want to see him have to do that. Frosh that play that many minutes tend to run out of gas late in the season right when a team is trying to make a drive for a bid. Rather see him in the 20-25 minute at the beginning of the season
As I stated, Law as an occasional, secondary ball handler in addition to Mooney/Taylor/Lathon is fine. Collins would never ask him to be an "assist machine". Not his role.
There really isn't a "3" in this scheme. "Wing" is term that fits with Collins style. The offense will be different without BMac and Scottie next season. I think we will see alot more ball movement and less dependency on the "lead guard".
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"Have" being the key word.
There was no real choice with BMac in 2014-15. Land Mooney and there are options to ease in Lathon.
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Sobo was a "real choice" in 2014-15. BMac just outplayed him. Right now, there is no choice for 2018-19. Need Mooney.
[Sorry wrassler]
I know people like to speculate and all that, and it's fun and all that, but am I the only one nervous about how confident everyone is with getting Mooney on this thread? It certainly looks far from a done deal. If I need to just lighten up, feel free to tell me so.
Real choice for the PO yes, not so much for Collins scheme. 2013-14 proved that to be the case.
I say this as someone who really appreciates Dave and Jordan's contributions to the program. Both aren't/weren't the answer as starters though.
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Mooney is likely the easiest to see but likely other grad transfers in the PG LG role would do well . Just that Mooney is farther along in the process than anybody else. He really is not the PG LLG abut unless someone was full court pressing us the whole game, he would be OK in the role when Lathon was sitting. Taylor and guard types including Ash and Gaines could get us through
I would agree. There is no risk to starting a freshman if he can really play. It would take forever to compile the list of true freshmen who have been highly successful.
Exactly. Not sure why there's all this hand-wringing about if Mooney is a true Point Guard. He's one of the best transfers available who can play lead guard if needed. Haywood said he's being recruited as a lead guard. If Lathon outplays him, great. But not sure that will happen immediately, if at all this year.
Far from a done deal, but it sounds like beyond Mooney, NU would be looking at a grad transfer who'd be the Sobo to Lathon's BMac -- likely a backup. Mooney would almost certainly start.
Btw the Vandy PG grad transfer is off the market I believe.
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"Had Sobo" in the same way we "have Ash" now. Dave really struggled in Collins first year during non conference play, got banged up and never regained a starting role.
With BMac on board the following year, it was a given Sobo would see action in a reserve role, a role he filled nicely. That's where Ash will fit in going forward with Lathon in the mix.
It's a different calculation if Mooney were to sign. Collins would then have several legitimate starting options between the LG and two wings depending on match ups, style of play, and speed at which to bring Lathon (and Kopp) along.
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I don't think people realize how good Lathon is. I certainly don't have any inside knowledge but I believe we will be very happy with him from day one.