Gran and Hinshaw's comments about Drew Barker

[Levibooty]

“Darin went and he evaluated him and came back and said, 'Oh, God. This kid's really phenomenal,' and everything that we were looking for,” Gran said. “We just didn't get that relationship part with him because they had him sewed up and he was a Wildcat.”

"He loves Kentucky, which is a good thing,” Hinshaw said. “He's from Kentucky and it made a lot of sense, but working him out and seeing him, I was really excited about this kid. I know he had all the accolades and all that kind of stuff and the rankings and all that, but he deserved it. He was a kid I was really impressed with and impressed with his motion. Again, looking forward to working with him.”


Just a reminder that our new coaches don't believe the shelf is bare. They have by their own words after today at least three QB's they feel good about at this point. Maturity and experience with the offense and the SEC are the two areas lacking but by their own words there is not a dearth of talent.

 

[Glenn Fohr]

I love the fact that they would even be comfortable with a true frosh if he was the best chance to win.

 

[gg4uk]

“Darin went and he evaluated him and came back and said, 'Oh, God. This kid's really phenomenal,'

I wish these comments followed a current college workout rather than a high school evaluation.

 

[Levibooty]

I wish these comments followed a current college workout rather than a high school evaluation.

You'll get something similar to that this spring. I think it is significant that they speak so highly of what they will get a chance to coach in the near future. Just a reminder all QB's will be practicing and developing under a new coach who some feel will be a significant upgrade over last year.

 

[vhcat70]

“Darin went and he evaluated him and came back and said, 'Oh, God. This kid's really phenomenal,' and everything that we were looking for,” Gran said. “We just didn't get that relationship part with him because they had him sewed up and he was a Wildcat.”.

I guess this had to have been after DB had flipped to us from TOBC.

 

[Beatle Bum]

Stoops had high excited praise for Johnson today. Said he as a real leader, smart and came to compete for the starting job. A position of question is less so today than 1 month ago.

 

[jauk11]

I wish these comments followed a current college workout rather than a high school evaluation.

Some of our neighbors can probably arrange that, but I think the NCAA would frown on it, and our Chickens%$t administration would undoubtedly self report it.

 

[Blue Decade]

“Darin went and he evaluated him and came back and said, 'Oh, God. This kid's really phenomenal,' and everything that we were looking for,” Gran said. “We just didn't get that relationship part with him because they had him sewed up and he was a Wildcat.”

"He loves Kentucky, which is a good thing,” Hinshaw said. “He's from Kentucky and it made a lot of sense, but working him out and seeing him, I was really excited about this kid. I know he had all the accolades and all that kind of stuff and the rankings and all that, but he deserved it. He was a kid I was really impressed with and impressed with his motion. Again, looking forward to working with him.”


Just a reminder that our new coaches don't believe the shelf is bare. They have by their own words after today at least three QB's they feel good about at this point. Maturity and experience with the offense and the SEC are the two areas lacking but by their own words there is not a dearth of talent.

The statement you cited is taken just a little bit out of context since Gran and Hinshaw were describing their impressions of Barker as a high school senior. Barker was a highly regarded recruit, and a lot of schools would have liked to sign him. Take a look at what Gran and Hinshaw said about Steve Johnson when he enrolled at Kentucky a few weeks ago. It is the same kind of very complimentary statement. I attended our home games in November, and watched Kentucky-Vandy on TV. Barker may become a great quarterback someday, he certainly has the build for it. But right now he is nowhere close. It is not just the kind of situation where Barker could make a leap to greatness became of a coaching change. The kid isn't that close. Not yet. Johnson is coming to our program fully expecting to beat out Barker for the starting quarterback job, and Johnson was handpicked for this by Hinshaw. There will be a competition, and both kids will get their chance. But as I look at the way this has rolled out, my bet would be 60-40 for Johnson to start in September. Of course, that will be much easier to handicap after April, and it doesn't mean Johnson can hold onto the job for the whole year. I'm just reading between the lines of what Gran and Hinshaw have said, but I also admit I was shocked by watching Barker play in November. In terms of fundamentals, he was completely lost.

 

[Mr Schwump]

The statement you cited is taken just a little bit out of context since Gran and Hinshaw were describing their impressions of Barker as a high school senior. Barker was a highly regarded recruit, and a lot of schools would have liked to sign him. Take a look at what Gran and Hinshaw said about Steve Johnson when he enrolled at Kentucky a few weeks ago. It is the same kind of very complimentary statement. I attended our home games in November, and watched Kentucky-Vandy on TV. Barker may become a great quarterback someday, he certainly has the build for it. But right now he is nowhere close. It is not just the kind of situation where Barker could make a leap to greatness became of a coaching change. The kid isn't that close. Not yet. Johnson is coming to our program fully expecting to beat out Barker for the starting quarterback job, and Johnson was handpicked for this by Hinshaw. There will be a competition, and both kids will get their chance. But as I look at the way this has rolled out, my bet would be 60-40 for Johnson to start in September. Of course, that will be much easier to handicap after April, and it doesn't mean Johnson can hold onto the job for the whole year. I'm just reading between the lines of what Gran and Hinshaw have said, but I also admit I was shocked by watching Barker play in November. In terms of fundamentals, he was completely lost.

Re Barker, I don't think he should be judged by his ill-fated November experience. We just didn't see enough of him to make any serious pro or con choice. I've stated in the past that he made enough throws to be encouraged but missed enough to be concerned. Hopefully the spring will be a springboard for him so to speak. Months in the weight room, months in the film room, months throwing with his WRs and time spent with his coaches can't hurt.

As for Johnson, the 180 pound thing scares me to death. SEC OLBs/DEs will break him in half. Of course, he and everyone else knows he has to get bigger and all are working toward that goal. I just hope one or both can develop into making UK a winner.

 

[Blue Decade]

Re Barker, I don't think he should be judged by his ill-fated November experience. We just didn't see enough of him to make any serious pro or con choice. I've stated in the past that he made enough throws to be encouraged but missed enough to be concerned. Hopefully the spring will be a springboard for him so to speak. Months in the weight room, months in the film room, months throwing with his WRs and time spent with his coaches can't hurt.

As for Johnson, the 180 pound thing scares me to death. SEC OLBs/DEs will break him in half. Of course, he and everyone else knows he has to get bigger and all are working toward that goal. I just hope one or both can develop into making UK a winner.

It isn't a question of judging Barker based on November. Everything is always a process. I can only tell you what I see, and what is involved in development. Someday, Barker may be a great quarterback. But he isn't even close now. I don't know if you played football, but Barker is not just 1 good month of spring practice away from being an SEC quarterback. The thing about November is that he got the chance to play that everyone was screaming to see. Fundamentally, he was awful. It was a great learning opportunity for fans who think stars have anything directly to do with development and early impact. It's common for young quarterbacks like Drew to lock onto receivers and throw into double coverage. Of course I cut him slack on that. But Drew looked like he didn't have any feel at all for playing the position. There isn't anything wrong with Barker physically. He has the build, and he has a good - not great - arm. He is physically ready, but he just isn't an instinctive player at this level. Steve Johnson IS an instinctive quarterback, which is exactly what Hinshaw saw on film. Maybe someday Barker might become that kind of player, and Hinshaw might help him. But that level of instinctive improvement isn't something that will strike him like lightning this April. It's time for our fans to accept that Towles - whatever you may think of him - beat out Barker for a real reason. Barker simply isn't anywhere near ready.

 

[redbudman]

The statement you cited is taken just a little bit out of context since Gran and Hinshaw were describing their impressions of Barker as a high school senior. Barker was a highly regarded recruit, and a lot of schools would have liked to sign him. Take a look at what Gran and Hinshaw said about Steve Johnson when he enrolled at Kentucky a few weeks ago. It is the same kind of very complimentary statement. I attended our home games in November, and watched Kentucky-Vandy on TV. Barker may become a great quarterback someday, he certainly has the build for it. But right now he is nowhere close. It is not just the kind of situation where Barker could make a leap to greatness became of a coaching change. The kid isn't that close. Not yet. Johnson is coming to our program fully expecting to beat out Barker for the starting quarterback job, and Johnson was handpicked for this by Hinshaw. There will be a competition, and both kids will get their chance. But as I look at the way this has rolled out, my bet would be 60-40 for Johnson to start in September. Of course, that will be much easier to handicap after April, and it doesn't mean Johnson can hold onto the job for the whole year. I'm just reading between the lines of what Gran and Hinshaw have said, but I also admit I was shocked by watching Barker play in November. In terms of fundamentals, he was completely lost.

 

[Levibooty]

Saying Johnson is coming here to compete and win the job is like saying ice cream will melt in the sun. Of course he is coming here to play, that is what all athletes want to do. That statement has the impact of a feather duster.

I have no idea who will be playing QB for Kentucky next year but I'm quite sure our coaches feel as good about Barker as they do Johnson. I can't help but think some people just want to anoint somebody they have never seen play as the starting QB in waiting. That way they can start the fame Kentucky QB debate again. It will be the same crap it usually is one QB is no good and their favorite is the second coming of Vince Young. I just don't think the QB will be decided on the discussion board and the people dissing Barker are simply people who don't have a clue about what they are speaking about. It's strange how the new guy is a hidden gem nobody has discovered. He may be but nobody has any evidence of that beyond dreamy speculation.

Saying you base your thinking on what you have seen then the question arises when did you see Johnson compete against Div 1 competition?

 

[Blue Decade]

Saying Johnson is coming here to compete and win the job is like saying ice cream will melt in the sun. Of course he is coming here to play, that is what all athletes want to do. That statement has the impact of a feather duster.

I have no idea who will be playing QB for Kentucky next year but I'm quite sure our coaches feel as good about Barker as they do Johnson. I can't help but think some people just want to anoint somebody they have never seen play as the starting QB in waiting. That way they can start the fame Kentucky QB debate again. It will be the same crap it usually is one QB is no good and their favorite is the second coming of Vince Young. I just don't think the QB will be decided on the discussion board and the people dissing Barker are simply people who don't have a clue about what they are speaking about. It's strange how the new guy is a hidden gem nobody has discovered. He may be but nobody has any evidence of that beyond dreamy speculation.

Saying you base your thinking on what you have seen then the question arises when did you see Johnson compete against Div 1 competition?

Have you paid attention to what Hinshaw said when Johnson enrolled for the spring semester a couple weeks ago? Hinshaw picked out Johnson from 30 quarterbacks he watched on film, because Johnson fits what he wants in terms of accuracy, mobility, grit. Johnson is being brought in here to play. Johnson will have to go out on the practice field in April and get it done to win the job. No argument there. But Gran and Hinshaw have seen film of Barker in November. Nobody who saw Barker play can seriously think Drew is anywhere near ready to lead a successful SEC offense. Some fans may be hoping for a miraculous improvement in April, and I'm sure we will all consider Hinshaw a great coach if that happens. But this isn't about Dawson. You can believe me or not, but the proof will be in the results. That level of improvement almost never happens in 1 offseason.

 

[Mr Schwump]

It isn't a question of judging Barker based on November. Everything is always a process. I can only tell you what I see, and what is involved in development. Someday, Barker may be a great quarterback. But he isn't even close now. I don't know if you played football, but Barker is not just 1 good month of spring practice away from being an SEC quarterback. The thing about November is that he got the chance to play that everyone was screaming to see. Fundamentally, he was awful. It was a great learning opportunity for fans who think stars have anything directly to do with development and early impact. It's common for young quarterbacks like Drew to lock onto receivers and throw into double coverage. Of course I cut him slack on that. But Drew looked like he didn't have any feel at all for playing the position. There isn't anything wrong with Barker physically. He has the build, and he has a good - not great - arm. He is physically ready, but he just isn't an instinctive player at this level. Steve Johnson IS an instinctive quarterback, which is exactly what Hinshaw saw on film. Maybe someday Barker might become that kind of player, and Hinshaw might help him. But that level of instinctive improvement isn't something that will strike him like lightning this April. It's time for our fans to accept that Towles - whatever you may think of him - beat out Barker for a real reason. Barker simply isn't anywhere near ready.

So do you attend practice? You say it isn't a matter of judging Barker on Nov...of course it is, it's the only time we've seen him. Again, I'm not saying he'll be great or will be a bust because right now we don't know. No, a month won't make him the next whoever but it's where he is at this time and IF he dedicates himself to getting better he may be adequate come Sept.

 

[Blue Decade]

So do you attend practice? You say it isn't a matter of judging Barker on Nov...of course it is, it's the only time we've seen him. Again, I'm not saying he'll be great or will be a bust because right now we don't know. No, a month won't make him the next whoever but it's where he is at this time and IF he dedicates himself to getting better he may be adequate come Sept.

I have been to some practices. But don't be misled by that. I don't have inside information. I just know what I see.

 

[Levibooty]

Have you paid attention to what Hinshaw said when Johnson enrolled for the spring semester a couple weeks ago? Hinshaw picked out Johnson from 30 quarterbacks he watched on film, because Johnson fits what he wants in terms of accuracy, mobility, grit. Johnson is being brought in here to play. Johnson will have to go out on the practice field in April and get it done to win the job. No argument there. But Gran and Hinshaw have seen film of Barker in November. Nobody who saw Barker play can seriously think Drew is anywhere near ready to lead a successful SEC offense. Some fans may be hoping for a miraculous improvement in April, and I'm sure we will all consider Hinshaw a great coach if that happens. But this isn't about Dawson. You can believe me or not, but the proof will be in the results. That level of improvement almost never happens in 1 offseason.

It's not a matter of whether I believe you or not, it'as more like a matter of how lucid your thinking is.

 

[Blue Decade]

It's not a matter of whether I believe you or not, it'as more like a matter of how lucid your thinking is.

Don't be a dork. I have always complimented your posts.

 

[Levibooty]

Don't be a dork. I have always complimented your posts.

I remember you have, but you're trying to convince people you can tell who is the better QB by comparing who you have seen in real live action against Div 1 competition and practice to film of another playing Juco. Why you can't see that is questionable to draw conclusions from is hard to understand.

 

[BigBluePhantom]

Here is what I saw. Towles was/is a damn good QB who looked really bad most of the time. He looked all world at times when he had plenty of time to go through his really slow progressions. Why was he so bad under pressure? I blame it about 35/65 on the OL/scheme. Our Oline was bad and he was running for his life a lot more than he should have been even against the very good defenses we were up against. Here is the thing. The coaches have to do certain things to help the QB out of this pickle. Simplify the reads and add in more quick hitting routes. Do identification drills or shorten up the throwing motion. We didn't solve for this one issue and not only were we bad, as time went on Towles lost confidence in himself and his receivers lost confidence in him as well. Now back to Barker. I was at some practices and I said from the spring on that Towles was way ahead of Barker. Does mean that Barker was bad? Not at all. Towles really was that good. Bottom line is that neither of them was going to succeed in our offense. I would really like to have plugged a Manziel or Couch into our QB spot just to see how much they would struggle. I think they would struggled plenty. I think Barker is going to be a really good QB and not that far down the road. I know nothing about Johnson other than what I have read. I would say it is like this. Our coaches know Johnson will be serviceable in the new scheme but they are hoping that a much more talented Barker will also be serviceable and ultimately better. Barker may need half of a season to catch up as I am pretty sure that he spun his wheels all last year and made very little advancement from his redshirt year.

 

[Levibooty]

BBP I agree with your post above and that is why I think the change in coaching will be the best improvement we will make next year.

 

[WildCard]

It isn't a question of judging Barker based on November. Everything is always a process. I can only tell you what I see, and what is involved in development. Someday, Barker may be a great quarterback. But he isn't even close now. I don't know if you played football, but Barker is not just 1 good month of spring practice away from being an SEC quarterback. The thing about November is that he got the chance to play that everyone was screaming to see. Fundamentally, he was awful. It was a great learning opportunity for fans who think stars have anything directly to do with development and early impact. It's common for young quarterbacks like Drew to lock onto receivers and throw into double coverage. Of course I cut him slack on that. But Drew looked like he didn't have any feel at all for playing the position. There isn't anything wrong with Barker physically. He has the build, and he has a good - not great - arm. He is physically ready, but he just isn't an instinctive player at this level. Steve Johnson IS an instinctive quarterback, which is exactly what Hinshaw saw on film. Maybe someday Barker might become that kind of player, and Hinshaw might help him. But that level of instinctive improvement isn't something that will strike him like lightning this April. It's time for our fans to accept that Towles - whatever you may think of him - beat out Barker for a real reason. Barker simply isn't anywhere near ready.

So do you attend practice? You say it isn't a matter of judging Barker on Nov...of course it is, it's the only time we've seen him. Again, I'm not saying he'll be great or will be a bust because right now we don't know. No, a month won't make him the next whoever but it's where he is at this time and IF he dedicates himself to getting better he may be adequate come Sept.

Well, I actually agree with BOTH you guys. I have absolutely no idea how good Johnson is/will be but after Phillips unexpected transfer there was absolutely no doubt that the Cats needed to add a QB to this class. Johnson was apparently their best option at this stage of the game.

We fans certainly did not see enough of Barker to make "make a decision" but he did not exactly set the world on fire in his two starting appearances. Given Towles uneven play all year I was stunned Barker was not subbed in on a regular basis (i.e., a "planned" appearance sometime in the first half). Barker leads going into spring but I expect a legitimate contest for the QB job. My biggest criticism of CMS's first 3 years is the way they have handled the QB situation beginning with making Whitlow the #2 guy in an "air raid" style offense. All JMO.

Peace

 

[Blue Decade]

I remember you have, but you're trying to convince people you can tell who is the better QB by comparing who you have seen in real live action against Div 1 competition and practice to film of another playing Juco. Why you can't see that is questionable to draw conclusions from is hard to understand.

That's really ridiculous. LOL! I said that Barker may still become a great quarterback someday. It's a fact that Barker was a prized recruit, and that Spurrier wanted him. Personally, I think the jump from Connor High School to the SEC is going to take more time. I have given you my impressions. And you can look up what Hinshaw has said about Steve Johnson. It's public knowledge. I guess I don't care if you believe me or not. I still like your posts though.

 

[Levibooty]

That's really ridiculous. LOL! I said that Barker may still become a great quarterback someday. It's a fact that Barker was a prized recruit, and that Spurrier wanted him. Personally, I think the jump from Connor High School to the SEC is going to take more time. I have given you my impressions. And you can look up what Hinshaw has said about Steve Johnson. It's public knowledge. I guess I don't care if you believe me or not. I still like your posts though.

So why don't you put the same credence in what Hinshaw said about Barker? It hasn't been but a few weeks since he said it. Again it's not whether I believe you or not, it's that you place so much value in what Hinshaw says about one QB but not the other. It just comes off as an agenda not analysis.

 

[BigBlueCatNation]

“Darin went and he evaluated him and came back and said, 'Oh, God. This kid's really phenomenal,' and everything that we were looking for,” Gran said. “We just didn't get that relationship part with him because they had him sewed up and he was a Wildcat.”

"He loves Kentucky, which is a good thing,” Hinshaw said. “He's from Kentucky and it made a lot of sense, but working him out and seeing him, I was really excited about this kid. I know he had all the accolades and all that kind of stuff and the rankings and all that, but he deserved it. He was a kid I was really impressed with and impressed with his motion. Again, looking forward to working with him.”


Just a reminder that our new coaches don't believe the shelf is bare. They have by their own words after today at least three QB's they feel good about at this point. Maturity and experience with the offense and the SEC are the two areas lacking but by their own words there is not a dearth of talent.

I've said all along the Barker is a pretty good QB. Whether he is an SEC winning QB remains to be seen, but he's got all the tools to be successful. It's up to him now to continue to grow and stay out of trouble

 

[Blue Decade]

Here is what I saw. Towles was/is a damn good QB who looked really bad most of the time. He looked all world at times when he had plenty of time to go through his really slow progressions. Why was he so bad under pressure? I blame it about 35/65 on the OL/scheme. Our Oline was bad and he was running for his life a lot more than he should have been even against the very good defenses we were up against. Here is the thing. The coaches have to do certain things to help the QB out of this pickle. Simplify the reads and add in more quick hitting routes. Do identification drills or shorten up the throwing motion. We didn't solve for this one issue and not only were we bad, as time went on Towles lost confidence in himself and his receivers lost confidence in him as well. Now back to Barker. I was at some practices and I said from the spring on that Towles was way ahead of Barker. Does mean that Barker was bad? Not at all. Towles really was that good. Bottom line is that neither of them was going to succeed in our offense. I would really like to have plugged a Manziel or Couch into our QB spot just to see how much they would struggle. I think they would struggled plenty. I think Barker is going to be a really good QB and not that far down the road. I know nothing about Johnson other than what I have read. I would say it is like this. Our coaches know Johnson will be serviceable in the new scheme but they are hoping that a much more talented Barker will also be serviceable and ultimately better. Barker may need half of a season to catch up as I am pretty sure that he spun his wheels all last year and made very little advancement from his redshirt year.

Pretty much hit the nail on the head there, except I believe Barker will need more time than you think. Towles is a talented quarterback who still needs to improve his throwing mechanics to optimize his accuracy. Dawson couldn't or didn't help, and he is history. For sure, a really bad offensive line didn't help. It's impossible to know whether the offensive line was 35% of Towles' problem, or maybe more than that. But I can tell you this much. Whatever Towles' main problem was, and whatever role the offensive line played, believe me Barker played MUCH worse when he got his chance to play with the same offense. That doesn't mean Barker's ceiling has changed, Barker is still a potentially credible quarterback in development. But Hinshaw handpicked Steve Johnson. It might help everyone's understanding of issues in contention here if they just go back and re-read Hinshaw's comments on selecting Johnson out of the 30 quarterbacks he scouted after Stoops hired him. I can't predict the future. I only guessed Johnson has a 60% chance to start in September. Maybe I'm wrong, but look again at Hinshaw's comments on Johnson's throwing accuracy, quickness, heart. Can Johnson translate that to the SEC? We will find out, but Hinshaw obviously believes he can.

 

[Blue Decade]

So why don't you put the same credence in what Hinshaw said about Barker? It hasn't been but a few weeks since he said it. Again it's not whether I believe you or not, it's that you place so much value in what Hinshaw says about one QB but not the other. It just comes off as an agenda not analysis.

I already explained that. Quick summary of what was already covered, Hinshaw was offering the evaluation he remembered of Barker as a senior at Connor High School, when Hinshaw was recruiting him. That was a couple of years ago, and it reflected his perceptions of Barker's upside as a high school player. But Hinshaw's comments about Johnson reflected how he thinks Johnson - when compared to 30 other quarterbacks he just evaluated in December - will fit into Kentucky's offense RIGHT NOW in terms of accuracy, quickness, desire, leadership. If you don't think that's an important difference, then we agree to disagree. And if you think I have an anti-Barker agenda, then you are full of it. I have never questioned or said anything negative whatsoever about Barker's talent or upside. Not once. I want all our Kentucky players to succeed. But I just don't think Barker is ready to do that yet. And I don't think he can get there in April with Hinshaw's handpicked guy competing against him for the starting job and probably taking half the snaps with the 1st team offense. I hope I have done a better job of saying it this time.

 

[fuzz77]

What do people expect coaches to say about players?

Generally , they are going to say positive, upbeat things about every kid so I generally put no stock into any coach-speak because very rarely is a coach going to give you a 100% honest evaluation of any kid. Not saying what is said is 100% fabricated...it's just that they aren't going to come out and say that a kid can't do this or can't do that...isn't working hard enough, etc.

 

[BigBluePhantom]

Pretty much hit the nail on the head there, except I believe Barker will need more time than you think. Towles is a talented quarterback who still needs to improve his throwing mechanics to optimize his accuracy. Dawson couldn't or didn't help, and he is history. For sure, a really bad offensive line didn't help. It's impossible to know whether the offensive line was 35% of Towles' problem, or maybe more than that. But I can tell you this much. Whatever Towles' main problem was, and whatever role the offensive line played, believe me Barker played MUCH worse when he got his chance to play with the same offense. That doesn't mean Barker's ceiling has changed, Barker is still a potentially credible quarterback in development. But Hinshaw handpicked Steve Johnson. It might help everyone's understanding of issues in contention here if they just go back and re-read Hinshaw's comments on selecting Johnson out of the 30 quarterbacks he scouted after Stoops hired him. I can't predict the future. I only guessed Johnson has a 60% chance to start in September. Maybe I'm wrong, but look again at Hinshaw's comments on Johnson's throwing accuracy, quickness, heart. Can Johnson translate that to the SEC? We will find out, but Hinshaw obviously believes he can.

You very well may be right. In fact, Barker may never pan out in this system. Hopefully, he does and hopefully, Johnson is equally amazing. Most importantly, I hope you and Levi can kiss and make up. You really aren't that far apart in what you saying and you are both great posters on here. It is kind of like betting on a horse at Keeneland. We all have picked who we think will win but none of will know until they cross the line. The important thing is that we all get a hotdog and beer and enjoy the race.

 

[UKWildcats#8]

I do not think anyone thinks the shelf is bare, but we gotta start winning games and getting to bowl games.

 

[Blue Decade]

You very well may be right. In fact, Barker may never pan out in this system. Hopefully, he does and hopefully, Johnson is equally amazing. Most importantly, I hope you and Levi can kiss and make up. You really aren't that far apart in what you saying and you are both great posters on here. It is kind of like betting on a horse at Keeneland. We all have picked who we think will win but none of will know until they cross the line. The important thing is that we all get a hotdog and beer and enjoy the race.

Levi seems think I have a hostile anti-Barker agenda, and that I don't know what I am talking about. But I have always admired Levi's posts. Perhaps he will read and understand mine more carefully. That's up to him. With regard to Kentucky's quarterbacks, the best outcome will be if Johnson and Barker do what Hinshaw obviously intends for them to do, compete and push each other. I saw Barker play multiple times, and his head is way, way behind his athletic tools. He isn't close yet. That doesn't mean he won't be an excellent quarterback at some future point. My guess - which means I don't know - is that Barker's learning process with a new offense won't be helped by splitting practice snaps with Steve Johnson. But I don't personally care which of them starts as long as our offense plays a whole lot better than it played in November. If it doesn't, then will will keep losing and our program will move into another chapter where Stoops is no longer the new guy, and more people will start doubting whether he can handle an SEC coaching job. Another thing, Stoops must recruit a new freshman quarterback in every class, and they must be real SEC level prospects. Just the way it is.

 

[Levibooty]

What I think is you have your thumb on the scales when you make your comparison of QB's. First it was reported that Hinshaw looked at 17 Juco QB's not 30. Hinshaw picked the one he like but was that the best of a poor group of scarcely recruited QB's who have never played Div 1? They weren' a group of QB's that had a long list of Div 1 scholarship offers. Can you tell us who else Hinshaw looked at? I can't tell you how good of a group it was either.

Secondly you pose that Hinshaw's statements about Barker have little value because they were about a HS QB. However when considering the job at Kentucky he also told Gran he knew Barker and Hoak since he had recruited both and "could definitely work with those QB's".

You say Hinshaw has made a much more recent evaluation of Johnson and while that is true, it is only because he has had no need to evaluate Barker or Hoak again since they were already part of the team or committed to it. His time for evaluation had to be for new recruits at the very end of the recruiting year in order to provide for adequate roster numbers.

Nothing has happen as far as the qualitative assessment for next years QB's by the coaches for this team and anybody posing that idea is flinging chaff in the air. Even so that will not deter the million or so QB coaches in this state from selecting who should be Kentucky's starting QB even before spring practice commences.

I'm not trying to beat on you I'm just trying to broaden your view and I still like the idea of the BU QB getting a few snaps in every game.

 

[Beatle Bum]

What I think is you have your thumb on the scales when you make your comparison of QB's. First it was reported that Hinshaw looked at 17 Juco QB's not 30. Hinshaw picked the one he like but was that the best of a poor group of scarcely recruited QB's who have never played Div 1? They weren' a group of QB's that had a long list of Div 1 scholarship offers. Can you tell us who else Hinshaw looked at? I can't tell you how good of a group it was either.

Hinshaw said today he looked at about 30 and said that he did not limit his list to uncommitted QBs. It appears they were ready to attempt to fiip recruits, but Johnson was the one the wanted. Stoops praised Johnson's skill and leadership.

That said, Hinshaw was quick to make sure that Luke Wright was mentioned with the list of five QBs and Gran was clear that the slate is clean for everyone. So, I think any debate about who is poised to be UK's QB is premature.

Stoops also said that the team is impressed with Hoak and that the WRs were raving about his passes.

 

[yoshukai]

It isn't a question of judging Barker based on November. Everything is always a process. I can only tell you what I see, and what is involved in development. Someday, Barker may be a great quarterback. But he isn't even close now. I don't know if you played football, but Barker is not just 1 good month of spring practice away from being an SEC quarterback. The thing about November is that he got the chance to play that everyone was screaming to see. Fundamentally, he was awful. It was a great learning opportunity for fans who think stars have anything directly to do with development and early impact. It's common for young quarterbacks like Drew to lock onto receivers and throw into double coverage. Of course I cut him slack on that. But Drew looked like he didn't have any feel at all for playing the position. There isn't anything wrong with Barker physically. He has the build, and he has a good - not great - arm. He is physically ready, but he just isn't an instinctive player at this level. Steve Johnson IS an instinctive quarterback, which is exactly what Hinshaw saw on film. Maybe someday Barker might become that kind of player, and Hinshaw might help him. But that level of instinctive improvement isn't something that will strike him like lightning this April. It's time for our fans to accept that Towles - whatever you may think of him - beat out Barker for a real reason. Barker simply isn't anywhere near ready.

Not arguing but if Barker was so bad how did he do so well at the elite eleven camp and why would coaches like Spurrier and Urban Myer offer him scholarships ?

 

[willievic]

Here is what I saw. Towles was/is a damn good QB who looked really bad most of the time. He looked all world at times when he had plenty of time to go through his really slow progressions. Why was he so bad under pressure? I blame it about 35/65 on the OL/scheme. Our Oline was bad and he was running for his life a lot more than he should have been even against the very good defenses we were up against. Here is the thing. The coaches have to do certain things to help the QB out of this pickle. Simplify the reads and add in more quick hitting routes. Do identification drills or shorten up the throwing motion. We didn't solve for this one issue and not only were we bad, as time went on Towles lost confidence in himself and his receivers lost confidence in him as well. Now back to Barker. I was at some practices and I said from the spring on that Towles was way ahead of Barker. Does mean that Barker was bad? Not at all. Towles really was that good. Bottom line is that neither of them was going to succeed in our offense. I would really like to have plugged a Manziel or Couch into our QB spot just to see how much they would struggle. I think they would struggled plenty. I think Barker is going to be a really good QB and not that far down the road. I know nothing about Johnson other than what I have read. I would say it is like this. Our coaches know Johnson will be serviceable in the new scheme but they are hoping that a much more talented Barker will also be serviceable and ultimately better. Barker may need half of a season to catch up as I am pretty sure that he spun his wheels all last year and made very little advancement from his redshirt year.

Towles main problem, other then the receivers losing confidence in him, was he lost confidence in his OL being able to protect him long enough for him to make his reads.

OLD STOLL FIELD GUY!

 

[Longtrip]

Why does it seem that a highly rated HS QB can be at UK for a year or two (or three) and still have no college level talent. Do we fail to develop the talent after their arrival?

 

[CATFANFOLIFE87]

Why does it seem that a highly rated HS QB can be at UK for a year or two (or three) and still have no college level talent. Do we fail to develop the talent after their arrival?

We haven't had a dedicated QB coach that's played the position before. That and having switched offenses 3 times while Towles was here and now 3 times while Barker has been here. Hinshaw is exactly what the doctor ordered

 

[fuzz77]

Not arguing but if Barker was so bad how did he do so well at the elite eleven camp and why would coaches like Spurrier and Urban Myer offer him scholarships ?

Do you ever follow how the elite eleven QBs do once they get in college? I've started the list...you can fill it in.

Here is the list of Drew's Elite 11 class. There are a few stars in there
Kyle Allen - went to Texas A&M, xfered to Houston
Drew - at UK...thrown for 364 yds
David Blough @ Purdue, thrownfor 1574yds, 10TDs, 8 Ints
K.J. Carta-Samuels @ Washinton thrown for 124 yds
Keller Chryst @ Stanford thrown for 59 yds
Stephen Collier - @ Ohio State...has not played to date
David Cornwell - @ Alabama...has not played to date
Andrew Ford - went to Va Tech, just xfered to Lackawanna College
Will Grier
Jerrod Heard
Brad Kaaya
DeShrone Kizer
Morgan Mahalak
Jacob Park
Luke Rubenzer
DeShawn Watson a star at Clemson
Sean White
Manny Wilkins

 

[Beatle Bum]

Why does it seem that a highly rated HS QB can be at UK for a year or two (or three) and still have no college level talent. Do we fail to develop the talent after their arrival?

Do you follow college football much?

 

[Oldtrainer_rivals]

We haven't had a dedicated QB coach that's played the position before. That and having switched offenses 3 times while Towles was here and now 3 times while Barker has been here. Hinshaw is exactly what the doctor
ordered

^^^I agree^^^
I think all the quarterbacks start Spring practice on a level field.
IMO whoever wins will play with a much, much improved offensive line!

 

[Rhavic]

The Elite Eleven tag means absolutely nothing once a recruit becomes a college player. It's nice to reward recruits for producing results in their high school years and at all of these camps, but it absolutely carries no weight in college, and many of the best QB's in college were not Elite 11 quarterbacks.
That's just reality.