H.S. Football in Ky Could Elevate UK ...

[WildcatofNati]

New York is a complete outlier to this conversation. It has one city that contains a gigantic portion of its population (8.5 million people) but hardly any football fields to play the game on to develop youth at the game. That's what separates it from states like California and Ohio. And none of those states are in the south, which is what your original post was about.

You can continue to bury your head if you wish but demographics is the issue, as I sit and watch NFL playoff games and see very little diversity on the field, much like just about every football game available to watch on TV. The game is dominated by blacks, there's just no argument against that. The more you have in your state the bigger advantage you have in recruiting. That's real talk, not a crutch.

Then why does California produce so many great prospects, per capita, than Kentucky. Why does Ohio? Why does Pennsylvania?

 

[jauk11]

I don't blame harris for not wanting to come here with how putrid our line has been. I dislike him for how he led our staff on, but what can you do. I still think he made a mistake and is destined to be the Kenyon Drake to Bo Scarboroughs Derrick Henry for the rest of his career. Bama likes the big bruiser backs.

This.

Our five star had another two yard gain in mopup against MSU, Scarborough had a very impressive 7 or 8 yard run where he refused to go down. He is also a five star, sat out a year to grow and mature, weighs 232#, listed with a 4.5 forty, looks like the real deal to me and agree that Bama likes the big backs. Not enough sample time to go all in yet, but I like him a lot better so far.

 

[mrhotdice]

Makes sense. A running backs production relies heavily on the ability of the offensive line in front of him. It's not a coincidence the Lemons kid says he's leaning UK after seeing how Drake Jackson and Landon Young were performing at the Army practices. Elite running backs and elite quarterbacks want to play behind an elite offensive line. We're moving towards having an elite line, especially if we sign Wills.

Harris is just another back at Bama. He has already been recruited over twice and I really don't see him playing much next year. He has no speed when he is compared with those Bama recruits and he does not have the size. Didnt they just recruit the number one back which has size and speed?

 

[ashleys handfull]

Larger budgets, better training facilities/equipment, higher paid coaching staffs, gigantic talent pools including:

California 2,522,162 blacks
Ohio 1,460,864 blacks
Pennsylvania 1,483,316 blacks

Kentucky 361,903 blacks

= more prospects produced.

 

[Deeeefense]

Due to population limitations Kentucky will never be a huge producer of D1A talent, however we should always have somewhere between 3-8 high caliber players that we should recruit. In previous years it was disheartening to see the top 1-3 players spring for Notre Dame, Tennessee or some other elite program. That has all changed under Stoops, the one notable exception being Harris - on balance I'll take that record any day.

 

[Blue Decade]

H.S. Football in Ky Could Elevate UK's success in the SEC. I'm happy for the 3 players we have playing in today's Army All Star Game. (The fact all 3 are coming to UK doesn't hurt.)

The fact we had 3 highly rated players and that none of them are from Louisville is unusual. Ky high school football needs to begin putting multiple players in this kind of stage. Most years will include some players from Louisville. UK will not get all these players. (UL is tough to beat out for players from the same city.) UK will, however, get their share.

The fact that Lexington is beginning to generate top level players on a regular basis is a good thing.

Harris last year and Elam the year before was a good start. Hopefully Ky HS football begins to generate multiple 3,4 & 5 star players.

This is an unusual outlier type of year for Kentucky high school football. This only happens occasionally. Lexington isn't beginning to generate top level players. Lexington has ALWAYS generated top players like Frank Lemaster, George Adams, Sterling Ward, Kio Sanford, Eric Shelton. But there have never been enough P5 type players coming out of Kentucky to fill up a roster, and there never will be. It isn't a matter of high school football getting better in Lexington and Louisville. It is just simple mathematics. There aren't nearly as many high school teams in Kentucky as in other P5 states. Therefore there aren't nearly as many players, or as much competition. Both Kentucky and Louisville always recruit most of their classes outside of our state, and always will. There are more Florida natives and Ohio natives on Kentucky's roster than Kentucky natives, and Kentucky will always depend primarily on out of state recruiting. In the occasional year like this, when Kentucky players can add so much more, that is gravy. Enjoy it, but don't expect it to happen very often.

 

[Chuckinden]

Kentucky is a basketball state. Look at the immense interest in the Sweet 16 and UK basketball.

 

[JDHoss]

Kentucky is a basketball state. Look at the immense interest in the Sweet 16 and UK basketball.

Take a trip on a Friday night to Belfry....or to Bell Co....or Corbin....or Danville....or....well, you get my drift. The people of Kentucky love football. We were on an elevator in a Nashville hotel with some Clemson fans in 2006. One of them told me this was the first time he could remember them being outnumbered at a bowl game. Same for Penn St fans in Tampa. People in Kentucky are no different than anywhere else in that they love football.

 

[Deeeefense]

Kentucky is a basketball state. Look at the immense interest in the Sweet 16 and UK basketball.

The two are not mutually exclusive. IMO the more successful the sport becomes the more enthusiasm builds. Kentucky's enthusiastic basketball fan base is largely based on his historical success. If/when football begins to succeed the enthusiasm will build. Being an enthusiast basketball fan does not preclude you from also being an enthusiastic football fan

The most hysterical and crazy I have ever seen a fan base was not at a basketball game but following the defeat of LSU in 2007. It was absolutely indescribable.

 

[ArtSmass]

Kentucky is more like OREGON in terms of overall population, minority population, and caliber of HS football than probably any other state whose largest land-grant university is perennially good.

Their answer? Recruit a nearby state loaded with talent (Cali) and when you get them on campus, make sure it's the sexiest place they visit.

They obviously have Phil Knight and we don't. But if all the upgrades that are happening (especially the training center) can have as it's #2 priority (#1 being functionality of getting a team athletic & strong) being SEXY to 18/19 year old young men, then we'd have a shot to mimic Oregon somewhat -- I think that may be why R. Brooks left saying UK wasn't making enough commitment; he knew it would take something on the scale of what he'd seen happen at Oregon first-hand.

 

[TeoJ]

Take a trip on a Friday night to Belfry....or to Bell Co....or Corbin....or Danville....or....well, you get my drift. The people of Kentucky love football. We were on an elevator in a Nashville hotel with some Clemson fans in 2006. One of them told me this was the first time he could remember them being outnumbered at a bowl game. Same for Penn St fans in Tampa. People in Kentucky are no different than anywhere else in that they love football.

Hubert Mizell former sports editor for the St Pete Times started his column for the Penn State UK game with I thought I woke up in Lexington this morning upon arriving at Tampa stadium.

 

[jauk11]

Kentucky is more like OREGON in terms of overall population, minority population, and caliber of HS football than probably any other state whose largest land-grant university is perennially good.

Their answer? Recruit a nearby state loaded with talent (Cali) and when you get them on campus, make sure it's the sexiest place they visit.

They obviously have Phil Knight and we don't. But if all the upgrades that are happening (especially the training center) can have as it's #2 priority (#1 being functionality of getting a team athletic & strong) being SEXY to 18/19 year old young men, then we'd have a shot to mimic Oregon somewhat -- I think that may be why R. Brooks left saying UK wasn't making enough commitment; he knew it would take something on the scale of what he'd seen happen at Oregon first-hand.

How in hell do you make anything about UK sexier than Minardi Hall?

And I don't even want to try to stoop to CLOSE to UL's level, I still think their house of cards will come tumbling down someday, sure is frustrating what they have gotten away with so far though..

 

[Blue Decade]

Kentucky is a basketball state. Look at the immense interest in the Sweet 16 and UK basketball.

Kentucky is a basketball AND football state. But Kentucky is a small state. The University of Kentucky basketball team pulls its key players from outside our state. Our football team must do the same. No mystery. Louisville does the same thing.

 

[Blue Decade]

The two are not mutually exclusive. IMO the more successful the sport becomes the more enthusiasm builds. Kentucky's enthusiastic basketball fan base is largely based on his historical success. If/when football begins to succeed the enthusiasm will build.

Exactly.

 

[NoviG8r]

2015 Population by State x 1M / Growth Rate 2010-2015


TX – 27.5 / 9.2%

FL – 20.3 / 7.8%

GA – 10.2 / 5.4%

TN – 6.6 / 4.0%

MO – 6.1 / 1.7%

SC – 4.9 / 5.9%

AL – 4.9 / 1.6%

LA – 4.7 / 3.0%

KY – 4.4 / 2.0%

MS – 3.0 / 0.8%

AR – 3.0 / 2.1%

 

[NoviG8r]

2015 Population % African-Americans by State


MS – 37.3%

LA – 32.4%

GA – 31.4%

SC – 28.5%

AL – 26.4%

TN – 16.8%

FL – 15.9%

AR – 15.8%

TX – 11.9%

MO – 11.5%

KY – 8.2%

 

[sluggercatfan]

H.S. Football in Ky Could Elevate UK's success in the SEC. I'm happy for the 3 players we have playing in today's Army All Star Game. (The fact all 3 are coming to UK doesn't hurt.)

The fact we had 3 highly rated players and that none of them are from Louisville is unusual. Ky high school football needs to begin putting multiple players in this kind of stage. Most years will include some players from Louisville. UK will not get all these players. (UL is tough to beat out for players from the same city.) UK will, however, get their share.

The fact that Lexington is beginning to generate top level players on a regular basis is a good thing.

Harris last year and Elam the year before was a good start. Hopefully Ky HS football begins to generate multiple 3,4 & 5 star players.

KENTUCKY is too small of a state to generate multiple high star players...also we don't have a large black population like many of the southern states do ....the main pt is UK needs to get to the pt--can you say winning--where we can keep the best kids at home...Stoops and crew have done a pretty good job of that so far

 

[WildCard]

This is an unusual outlier type of year for Kentucky high school football. This only happens occasionally. Lexington isn't beginning to generate top level players. Lexington has ALWAYS generated top players like Frank Lemaster, George Adams, Sterling Ward, Kio Sanford, Eric Shelton. But there have never been enough P5 type players coming out of Kentucky to fill up a roster, and there never will be. It isn't a matter of high school football getting better in Lexington and Louisville. It is just simple mathematics. There aren't nearly as many high school teams in Kentucky as in other P5 states. Therefore there aren't nearly as many players, or as much competition. Both Kentucky and Louisville always recruit most of their classes outside of our state, and always will. There are more Florida natives and Ohio natives on Kentucky's roster than Kentucky natives, and Kentucky will always depend primarily on out of state recruiting. In the occasional year like this, when Kentucky players can add so much more, that is gravy. Enjoy it, but don't expect it to happen very often.

Good points BD. Players can be anywhere but you will almost certainly find more players where the game itself is more popular. And "popular" means from the peewee leagues right on up through HS. I am a big believer that good "pre-HS football" programs stimulate an interest in the game at the HS level.

I checked several SEC states somewhat similar to Kentucky in population, the number of HS football teams in each state and how many kids are "top rated" by Rivals...

KY ~4.4 M population 221 HS football teams 10 ranked

MS ~3.0 M population 326 HS football teams 20 ranked

AR ~3.0 M population 207 HS football teams 10 ranked

SC ~4.8 M population 195 HS football teams 20 ranked

AL ~4.8 M population 590 HS football teams 25 ranked

Given the number of football schools in the state I'm surprised Rivals does not "rank" more kids from AL. But even if the top talent numbers are low the sheer number of schools playing football coupled with the youth leagues and pre-HS play reflect the enormous passion for the game in that state.

Peace

 

[Grumpyolddawg]

That's a fair point. However, Ohio has about half the population of New York state, and a smaller black population per capita than New York state, and yet Ohio produces legitimate football prospects to the tune of about 10 to 1 compared to New York. California has a comparable demographic to Kentucky for African-Americans, and produces about 10 to 1 legitimate prospects per capita compared to Kentucky. Not 10 to 1 in numbers, 10 to 1 per capita. How does California do that? How does Ohio do it, in comparison to New York?

The demographic argument is a crutch. Moreover, the population of Kentucky is what it is. Kentucky just needs to start focusing on football.

Have to get kids involved for them to become prospects. Have to have a coach who walks the halls, watches PE classes to find kids who are athletic,lots of kids walking the halls who are great athletes that never try a single sport for one reason or another. Sometimes its as simple as no one has ever asked them to.

 

[Deeeefense]

Re Young football - Concussion and head trauma have become a big issue with parents, and contrary to what some think the very young kids at the pee wee level are at risk. that has driven the participation rates down nationally to some degree.

One last point on in-state recruiting. This staff views our local recruiting territory to include southern Ohio in particular the Cincinnati area and the norther portion of Tennessee including Nashville. Most major program recruit regionally now as opposed to focusing heavily on in-state recruiting like they did 20 years ago.

 

[dnabbott25]

This state has had good players over the years. The 1990's were absolutely loaded. Prior to Rivals, internet, Army All American game, etc. Just to name a few, and think about it for a minute, just look at what some of them did.......

Shaun Alexander/ Boone County = became Alabama Crimson Tides All Time leading rusher
Craig Yeast/Harrodsburg = Became the SEC All Time leading Receiver
TIm Couch/Hyden = Became the #1 pick in the NFL Draft
Dennis Johnson/Harrodsburg = Was the #1 Ranked High School Defensive player in the Nation
Chris Redmon/Male = Was the #2 Ranked High School QB in the Nation
Julius Yeast/Harrodsburg = Played for Ohio State (recruited by everybody)
Jason Dunn/Harrodsburg = Played Tight End for years in the NFL
Tony Driver/Louisville Male = Played for Notre Damn, won the Golden Helmet award

People seem to think that we are in the golden era of Kentucky High School Football. Its good yes, but not even close to the talent in the 1990's. And in those days a lot of talent slipped through the cracks because there were not all of the recruiting services or highlights or any of that. Not to mention that during the 1990's the state of Kentucky had 6 times a team ranked #1 in the NATION in the USA today rankings. The problem back then was Commonwealth stadium still looked like a high school stadium, Kentucky was awful, and Louisville still played at the fairgrounds cardinal stadium.

 

[NoDef]

If you look back at the good Kentucky teams over the years you will find some good in state players. Couch and Yeast anchored the outback team. The 2007 team had Woodson, Burton, Tamme, Masthay. I might be leaving off a few, but you at least were getting some all-American or All-Conference type talent in state. That helps a lot when you don't have many to choose from.

 

[sluggercatfan]

Take a trip on a Friday night to Belfry....or to Bell Co....or Corbin....or Danville....or....well, you get my drift. The people of Kentucky love football. We were on an elevator in a Nashville hotel with some Clemson fans in 2006. One of them told me this was the first time he could remember them being outnumbered at a bowl game. Same for Penn St fans in Tampa. People in Kentucky are no different than anywhere else in that they love football.

Yea baby!!!!!!

 

[truebluewildcat_rivals34254]

We simply don't have the population or demographics...never have, and probably never will...

don't really have the population or demographics to support a basketball program either...and it only takes a couple elite talents to get to the final 4...

High School Football may be beloved all across the state...but that doesn't change the population and talent level...doesn't make the development of kids any more competitive...

I played football in HS like a lot of folks on here i'm sure...and anyone could be on the team...coach never cut anyone...couldn't really afford to...maybe a great year we could have a varsity friday night roster of 40 kids, and that's with freshmen...out of 40 kids 8-10 would be really solid athletes and those guys would have to play both ways, some even all 3 ways...which doesn't really allow for anyone to really develop at a specific position as they are splitting their practice time doing both offensive, defensive, and special teams drills...the best defensive end on a team who may have a chance at football beyond HS is regularly practicing against and playing against an offensive line that may have one guy that is close to 6'4 250...

In Florida, Texas, California, etc...in the densely populated areas there is more than enough players and there are RBs that are bigger than a lot of the OL that I practiced with and played against in KY...teams have tryouts and are able to fill out a roster with really the cream of the crop...and that leads to competitive development and practices throughout a kid's 4 years...also, the top RB doesn't also have to play LB and gunner on special teams...The QB can just practice at QB and really hone his craft and not have to split his time at other spots...

I know the schools from more populated counties, and city schools like Male, St. X, Trinity...probably could fill out two squads, be in a position to make cuts, and have really competitive practices and development for their players...and that's why they produce most of the talent...but that's not the case for most of the state...

Also...Youth football has never been huge, as competitive, or as well organized state wide in KY like it is in the football states that breed the talent...from flag football, to Pee Wee, to the high school passing leagues and showcases...kids in other states simply get more competitive reps from the youth ranks to High School...

the relatively small amount of talent the state does produce...is split between UK, UL, WKU, EKU...and if it is exceptional talent, it is poached...

 

[College#19]

It all starts at the Youth levels. The Youth Football Leagues in Kentucky for the most part are terrible. I am just going to take a sample size from NKY and Cincinnati area. The Youth programs in NKY for the most part are awful. The coaching is terrible, the rules are just as bad, thus the leagues are not well organized. There is a good Youth program in Fort Thomas, but the other youth football leagues I have seen in NKY are really bad.

On the other side of the river in Cincinnati most of the Youth Football Leagues are very run and organized. The Coaching is solid, the rules for most of the league are well written, and the kids coming out of 6th and 8 grade in most of these programs are prepared to play High School Football.

Just like most sports, the youth programs are going to generate the level of talent and play at the high school levels.

 

[NavyCat88]

The limited home-grown talent makes coaching doubly important at a place like UK for recruiting, player development, player retention, game planning, matchup assessment, execution, in-game adjustments and REPUTATION as a serious-minded "player" in the world of CFB. We are not swimming in Jimmys and Joes in the bluegrass, so potential out-of-state recruits have to see our coaching (and facilities) as "the next step to the next level" and a good reason to leave FL, VA, SC, GA, MS, AL, TN, OH, PA, etc.

We are not yet close in the minds of non-Kentuckians. I've lived in SC, GA (twice), VA (twice), FL, TN (Memphis), MD (twice), PA (twice), and CA (twice), and whenever I tell a stranger I am a UK FB fan....it is typically met with laughter.