"Half the team wasn't on the same page..."

[maysvilleky]

Having played in HS (not good enough for college) here is what player meetings basically amount to.

1. Guys talking "cool", some cursing, alot of talk about "wanting it more", can tend to start some arguing, etc..
2. It is good to get guys to maybe try a bit harder/push themselves....but usually when teams are playing bad...you just need guys to do "their" job to help the team. Not do more and screw that up as well in the process. The thing you need most when playing bad (outside of better talent) is playing with more focus/discipline. But these sessions usually don't have guys talking about how to focus/stay disciplined on field of play...instead it encourages more of the opposite...(like guys winging it more and more).

We really need our defensive front 7 to play a ton better and do their individual jobs better...that is killing UK right now is about the entire front 7 on D is getting beaten in their individual matchups each snap way more often than they are winning (save CJ Johnson).

We really need our OLine to hold up better...especially on the edges at tackle spots.

The rest of the team can play better...but until the trenches improves...the rest of this isn't going to matter.

This is the best summary of "player only meetings". We had a couple in HS and it works out just like this. Usually players are disgruntled with the Coaches and playing time and decide they aren't listening to the Coaches anymore and going to do their own thing. And to heck with what the other players think. It becomes all about "me".

The only thing that can save a meeting like this is if the team really isn't that far apart and can agree to a new common goal that they feel is attainable and in their own best interest (ex: 7-5 record or Bowl X etc.) where as the original goal may have been to win the SEC East. Maybe if they can re-focus on one common goal, they get back the effort and desire to help the team get it's new goal.

 

[Mr Schwump]

This is the best summary of "player only meetings". We had a couple in HS and it works out just like this. Usually players are disgruntled with the Coaches and playing time and decide they aren't listening to the Coaches anymore and going to do their own thing. And to heck with what the other players think. It becomes all about "me".

The only thing that can save a meeting like this is if the team really isn't that far apart and can agree to a new common goal that they feel is attainable and in their own best interest (ex: 7-5 record or Bowl X etc.) where as the original goal may have been to win the SEC East. Maybe if they can re-focus on one common goal, they get back the effort and desire to help the team get it's new goal.

Still say the players need a reminder scholarships are renewable year to year.

 

[Kooky Kats_anon]

Maybe... Just maybe... Stoops and staff aren't managing their talent well. When Boom had a personal issue and was welcomed back to team, this is when the team tanked... Maybe the team needed Boom to walk.

Morale is a tough line to walk when giving preferential treatment to dudes.

The EKU game was my wake up call on this staff. Sorry, but we should've dismantled that team. And quite frankly we didn't deserve to win that game.

I don't think it would be a tough sell to get a better Xs & Os coach than HCMS. Especially with the facilities and sitting talent. Would love to think what s Frank Solich-type dude could do with this opportunity.

Jmho.

 

[Deeeefense]

Does anyone know of any team in the history of this country that held a players-only meeting & saved their season? Because in my faulty memory every time it happens it is with a team that his horribly disappointing or on a horrible losing streak....and the meetings do absolutely nothing to stop this.

http://www.nationofblue.com/82444-2/

“We had a team meeting. I’m glad we had it,” said sophomore running back Mikel Horton. “Half of us were on the same page and the other half wasn’t on the same page.”

The little things have been killing Kentucky’s chances of winning of late. Giving up late points in the second quarter against Auburn and Mississippi State. Players getting out of their lanes on kick coverage againstTennessee. Those things made a difference in each of those contests.

“We didn’t listen to the coaches as much as we needed to as far as the small things, like technique,” Horton continued. “The losses we have are from little things that we really need to fix – that we did ourselves. Not because the team is better than us. We have to choose to change the program.”

After the team meeting called back Patrick Towles and Josh Forrest the group identified some of their problem areas and put the onus on themselves to make changes for their overall good.

“We sat down for about 45 minutes to an hour and talked about what we need to do the last four weeks. What do we need to change for us. Not for the fans. Not for the crowd. Not for the coaches, but for us. What we do need to change for our brothers and we figured out we need to come together more as a family,” he finished.

What a match-up this week. Half our team is apparently not listening to the coaches. 2 players on their team just popped for dope & suspended. Our team had all the appearance of quitting last week. Their team has not scored a touchdown in 2 1/2 games. Our fanbase angry at players & coaches. Theirs ready to ride their coaches out of town on a rail.

brutal but honest take - I guess the team that wants to lose the least will win.

 

[Poetax]

Maybe... Just maybe... Stoops and staff aren't managing their talent well. When Boom had a personal issue and was welcomed back to team, this is when the team tanked... Maybe the team needed Boom to walk.

Morale is a tough line to walk when giving preferential treatment to dudes.

The EKU game was my wake up call on this staff. Sorry, but we should've dismantled that team. And quite frankly we didn't deserve to win that game.

I don't think it would be a tough sell to get a better Xs & Os coach than HCMS. Especially with the facilities and sitting talent. Would love to think what s Frank Solich-type dude could do with this opportunity.

Jmho.

But think about it, Jacksonville State could say the same thing about their AU game. You win one game at a time, so why analyze the close wins, we don't give the close losses the same attention.

 

[fuzz77]

The negative is that the situation got so awful and so toxic that a players-only meeting had to be called in the first place. As is the case in virtually every other sport & situation where a players-only meeting occurs, any positivity that might be gained are dwarfed by the bad situation that caused the need for it to be convened.

Hope and pray I'm wrong, hope bad attitudes were called and rooted out, and the team plays a competitive highly enthused game on Saturday. Past history tells me the hope is in vain. I expect a listless defeated team like the one that went on the road to Tennessee last November.

Could you be a little more dramatic please?
3 weeks ago everyone was patting everyone on the back and dreaming of a SEC East crown...two "bad" losses and suddenly it is "so awful and so toxic that a players-only meeting had to be called in the first place"[eyeroll]
Because there was a team meeting doesn't automatically equate to "awful and so toxic"...it could very well be "we know we can do better so let's rally the troops" meeting.

 

[pickled cat]

That pretty clearly happened after the Auburn game. I was sitting right behind our sideline in Starkville and as soon as I saw them come out of the tunnel I told my wife we were done. No energy, no emotion, and it showed on the field. At halftime of that game I said this team was likely finishing 4-8, with a shot at 5-7. I still stand by that.

That's odd , we outscored Auburn in the second half and our D held them to just 7 points in the second half. We nearly came back and tied them up!!

 

[fuzz77]

Still say the players need a reminder scholarships are renewable year to year.

Threats like that rarely work...and most of the players know that they could transfer and go play elsewhere, even if they had to go down to a FCS school. Besides, you can only sign 25 per year.

 

[H-D cat]

That's odd , we outscored Auburn in the second half and our D held them to just 7 points in the second half. We nearly came back and tied them up!!

I guess I'm not following you because I'm not sure what that has to do with anything. Yes, we nearly tied them up. But we didn't. Then we came out looking completely uninterested in Starkville and have looked like garbage ever since. Hence, we appeared to give up after the Auburn game.

 

[CHAMPCAT11]

Threats like that rarely work...and most of the players know that they could transfer and go play elsewhere, even if they had to go down to a FCS school. Besides, you can only sign 25 per year.

Just being truthful here. Kentucky football is not elite enough to use this tactic. I don't know if it would be good at any school but at least a team like Alabama, LSU etc has the depth to do this and get away with it. And I don't think they do that. Quality players have to bust their asses or they sit... similar to UK basketball.

 

[JHB4UK]

Because there was a team meeting doesn't automatically equate to "awful and so toxic"...i

No

but it ain't good. And my pessimistic reaction is due not just this but to other reports of there being serious locker room problems with this group of players.

 

[zannmann]

Tim Tebow had a team meeting after the Ole Miss loss and they went on to win the National Championship.

 

[KendallCat]

VERY concerning comment from Horton. How in the hell can half the team be on a different page at this point in the season? Stoops preaches accountability, etc. but when I hear these kind of comments from players it clearly tells me he has lost some of these players.

Ding ding ding!! We have a winner. The accountability part went out the window a while back. Miss meetings, tutors, classes - no more early morning runs. Coaches don't want to be up there at Nutter that early. Explains a lot of the problems plus not a lot of experience with this staff in their current roles as HC and OC and DC.

 

[footballfanatic77]

Does anyone know of any team in the history of this country that held a players-only meeting & saved their season? Because in my faulty memory every time it happens it is with a team that his horribly disappointing or on a horrible losing streak....and the meetings do absolutely nothing to stop this.

http://www.nationofblue.com/82444-2/

“We had a team meeting. I’m glad we had it,” said sophomore running back Mikel Horton. “Half of us were on the same page and the other half wasn’t on the same page.”

The little things have been killing Kentucky’s chances of winning of late. Giving up late points in the second quarter against Auburn and Mississippi State. Players getting out of their lanes on kick coverage againstTennessee. Those things made a difference in each of those contests.

“We didn’t listen to the coaches as much as we needed to as far as the small things, like technique,” Horton continued. “The losses we have are from little things that we really need to fix – that we did ourselves. Not because the team is better than us. We have to choose to change the program.”

After the team meeting called back Patrick Towles and Josh Forrest the group identified some of their problem areas and put the onus on themselves to make changes for their overall good.

“We sat down for about 45 minutes to an hour and talked about what we need to do the last four weeks. What do we need to change for us. Not for the fans. Not for the crowd. Not for the coaches, but for us. What we do need to change for our brothers and we figured out we need to come together more as a family,” he finished.

What a match-up this week. Half our team is apparently not listening to the coaches. 2 players on their team just popped for dope & suspended. Our team had all the appearance of quitting last week. Their team has not scored a touchdown in 2 1/2 games. Our fanbase angry at players & coaches. Theirs ready to ride their coaches out of town on a rail.

I think a players only meeting shows some level of personal accountability among the players. As the old saying goes, "you can lead a horse to water, but you can't make him drink." The players have to hold each other accountable as much as the coaches do. If my memory serves me correctly, Tennessee's players held a players only meeting last season when things weren't going so well and turned things and got to a bowl game. Also, Alabama's players held a players-only meeting this season after the loss to Ole Miss and seem to have played better since. Sometimes its about asserting leadership. I'll reserve judgment until I see if it helps them.

 

[footballfanatic77]

Like I said yesterday, these players need to be reminded scholarships are renewable each year.

Can't do that. As much hell as Butch Jones has gotten from Kentucky fans, if Stoops were to do the same thing there would surely be outrage.

 

[footballfanatic77]

Threats like that rarely work...and most of the players know that they could transfer and go play elsewhere, even if they had to go down to a FCS school. Besides, you can only sign 25 per year.

Technically not true...Kentucky has had a lot of classes with over 25 signees.

 

[JC CATS]

That pretty clearly happened after the Auburn game. I was sitting right behind our sideline in Starkville and as soon as I saw them come out of the tunnel I told my wife we were done. No energy, no emotion, and it showed on the field. At halftime of that game I said this team was likely finishing 4-8, with a shot at 5-7. I still stand by that.

Did your wife tell you how totally off base you are?

 

[LowCountryCat]

Why would the players need to do this? We are right where we are supposed to be, no one expected wins against any of these teams. To need to do this meeting would imply things aren't going the right direction and I just don't see how that is the case.

Maybe the players don't like losing. Apparently their expectations are higher than most of the fans here.

 

[TuckyFan]

It's been said by some and overlooked by others. The value of the meeting (in my mind) is establishing leaders. Particularly when you have young players passing older players, that's an issue. Many leaders ascend to that spot by demonstrated work ethic and production, something younger players can't as easily use to their credit in being a leader.

What can leadership and a team meeting liket this do if it can't make players run faster or become stronger? It can help them bring a level of effort to the field recently missing by rededicating themselves to their team and brothers. It can get additional effort in preparation so that Saturdays are more productive. It can also become a tool in game to rally players when times get tough. All of that potentially benefits young players in particular, which UK plays many.

Will all this happen? I guess we'll see. But I think all that's viable, and if at least some of it came from that meeting, it could yield some results. Maybe a win, maybe not. But 4 quarters of competitive football would certainly be a first for the season.

 

[pikespeak1]

At halftime of that game I said this team was likely finishing 4-8

This is just dumb

 

[screwduke]

Tim Tebow had a team meeting after the Ole Miss loss and they went on to win the National Championship.

Yup. Lots of teams have done it. Some had success after it and some didn't.

 

[KendallCat]

There is a definitive divide between the older and younger players, and the older players feel the younger ones are not working hard enough. To me this should be the coaches leading the team and setting expectations for all of the players to adhere to - that is what coaches are supposed to do.

 

[JHB4UK]

Whatever the issues, whatever the meeting results, I think a road game is the best for this group. Get out of town, get away from friends & family, get isolated with just the team & coaches for a couple days.

 

[Parabolicsecan]

There is a definitive divide between the older and younger players, and the older players feel the younger ones are not working hard enough. To me this should be the coaches leading the team and setting expectations for all of the players to adhere to - that is what coaches are supposed to do.

The one exception to this would be the secondary, where the younger players are starting to get more game repititions.

 

[H-D cat]

This is just dumb

We'll see I suppose. I don't think it's unfair to say that we will only be favored in 1 more game this season. Vandy is a toss-up. We are playing really football right now. Really bad.

 

[H-D cat]

Did your wife tell you how totally off base you are?

Based on what? If you held a gun to my head and asked me this team's final record on the year, I'm going 5-7. They are playing at a Jokeresque level at present and there is zero reason for optimism that I can see. But please, shine some light and make me believe we go 6-6 or 7-5.

 

[pikespeak1]

We'll see I suppose. I don't think it's unfair to say that we will only be favored in 1 more game this season. Vandy is a toss-up. We are playing really football right now. Really bad.

This is just wrong. Plus you're moving the goal posts. In your other post you said the team would likely finish 4-8. That means losing to Charlotte. If you are some ignorant about football that you think UK losing to Charlotte is likely then there is no hope for you. If you really believe that, you know less about football than anyone to ever post on this board.

 

[pikespeak1]

Based on what? If you held a gun to my head and asked me this team's final record on the year, I'm going 5-7. They are playing at a Jokeresque level at present and there is zero reason for optimism that I can see. But please, shine some light and make me believe we go 6-6 or 7-5.

We will 100% beat Charlotte and should beat Vandy. I live in vegas and if we are dogs against Vandy I will be loading up on UK.

 

[H-D cat]

We will 100% beat Charlotte and should beat Vandy. I live in vegas and if we are dogs against Vandy I will be loading up on UK.

We aren't guaranteed to beat anyone right now. I'll concede that a win against Charlotte is likely. I will honestly be surprised if we get another one this year though based on what I've seen the last two games and what we have heard coming out of the program this week.

 

[BlueRunner11]

VERY concerning comment from Horton. How in the hell can half the team be on a different page at this point in the season? Stoops preaches accountability, etc. but when I hear these kind of comments from players it clearly tells me he has lost some of these players.

Honestly think he "lost" the team last year at this point as well.

 

[BlueRunner11]

Why would the players need to do this? We are right where we are supposed to be, no one expected wins against any of these teams. To need to do this meeting would imply things aren't going the right direction and I just don't see how that is the case.

Well, The players expected wins against these teams or at least I sure hope they did! But when the blowouts start happening, and with all the coaching staffs poor player management issues, blunders and gutless calls that imo show a serious lack of confidence in the players, then all this is to be expected.

Players are most likely getting on the same page to try and salvage the season FOR THEM despite the media, the fair weathered fans, and the coaching staff.

 

[WildCard]

There is a definitive divide between the older and younger players, and the older players feel the younger ones are not working hard enough.

IF there is a "divide" on this team, that is the worst possible case as it damages the present and sets a bad tone for the future. JMO.

Peace

 

[Mr Schwump]

IF there is a "divide" on this team, that is the worst possible case as it damages the present and sets a bad tone for the future. JMO.

Peace

Wishful thinking doesn't make it so.

 

[Gary4UK]

Regardless of what is going on at Georgia, they still have the better players... Lets don't forget that... We have a chance to win, but we have to do it with them having the better team.... That is facts.... If we win, I'm not pointing to Georgia lost this game, instead of we won this game... If we win, the will be an upset and should be celebrated as one... Should be celebrated as our team played better than your team...

 

[mtn cat1]

It's been said by some and overlooked by others. The value of the meeting (in my mind) is establishing leaders. Particularly when you have young players passing older players, that's an issue. Many leaders ascend to that spot by demonstrated work ethic and production, something younger players can't as easily use to their credit in being a leader.

What can leadership and a team meeting liket this do if it can't make players run faster or become stronger? It can help them bring a level of effort to the field recently missing by rededicating themselves to their team and brothers. It can get additional effort in preparation so that Saturdays are more productive. It can also become a tool in game to rally players when times get tough. All of that potentially benefits young players in particular, which UK plays many.

Will all this happen? I guess we'll see. But I think all that's viable, and if at least some of it came from that meeting, it could yield some results. Maybe a win, maybe not. But 4 quarters of competitive football would certainly be a first for the season.

I really like your perspective TuckyFan!!!

 

[mtn cat1]

It happens. I'm not getting upset about that because sometimes that happens even with the best of coaching staffs. It is a problem if we don't deal with it right away. I do feel that we lost the last two games because they were better teams. However the manner in which we lost them was unacceptable. We will totally unprepared, undisciplined and put out very poor effort. Losing to better teams is one thing but getting destroyed because you didn't put forth a reasonable effort is something else. That has to stop now.

Careful TBCat, you will chastised as being a program "decleater"!!!

 

[mtn cat1]

This was the quote from Patrick Towles yesterday when asked about the "players only" meeting. Serious questions - what the heck does that mean? And, how does a team get to that point?

Inquireing minds want to know !

 

[Katwatcher]

See what happens Saturday but players only meetings rarely ever work out. This isn't the movies.

There has been a lot of comments about players only meetings. I'm just curious if there is any stats on how many and were they successful. If they were called for players only , how does anyone know what was discussed ?

If the meeting was 45 minutes, there must have been a lot of silence. There has also been talk of no leadership within the players, so that evidently was not true.

It appears from the bits and pieces that someone came up with that we do have leadership on the team and players who do care.

On another note we are hearing that Georgia is having some of the same problems happening to an EXPERIENCED coach,

I have confidence in the coaching staff that they will handle this matter with a successful outcome. There maybe be some bench time for some or maybe heads will roll but Stoops can handle it. Go Cats

 

[8titles_rivals270261]

How you view this whole situation likely depends on whether you are a "glass half full' or a "glass half empty" type of person. On one hand it certainly appears to be a positive that team leaders are emerging and trying to get everyone on the same page. Yet at the same time, it is a bit distressing to learn that half the team isn't already on the same page.

Hopefully the side that is valuing the whole team/program approach win out over the "me" types and reign them in. A team that is in turmoil cannot be successful. This type of situation is perhaps one of those things a first time head coach like Stoops struggles with the most, since they have never been in that position before. Fortunately, he is from a coaching family and has multiple people to turn to for sound advice should he need it.

It isn't amazing that so many people are surprised by this. I played college baseball and can honestly say that our team was never completely on the same page. When you have 8 starters and a limited pitching rotation, but you have 27 players who are EXTREMELY competitive then it happens. Now, quadruple that with 22 starts and 85 roster spots on a football team. It is what it is. It's good they talked it out but I highly doubt that's what was losing games. The team gets frustrated so this stuff gets a little worse, but honestly, there are a lot of other very tactical reasons that we lost those games and very little has to do with the half that aren't "on the same page".

 

[carolinacat]

It isn't amazing that so many people are surprised by this. I played college baseball and can honestly say that our team was never completely on the same page. When you have 8 starters and a limited pitching rotation, but you have 27 players who are EXTREMELY competitive then it happens. Now, quadruple that with 22 starts and 85 roster spots on a football team. It is what it is. It's good they talked it out but I highly doubt that's what was losing games. The team gets frustrated so this stuff gets a little worse, but honestly, there are a lot of other very tactical reasons that we lost those games and very little has to do with the half that aren't "on the same page".

After the way we played against MSU and UT, how much can a players only meeting hurt us? I welcome the airing out of issues.