Harrison Barnes booted for Kevin durant
- Thread starter crazyduke3
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Or if the unanimous MVP wouldn't have had at least 2 horrible , boneheaded and ill timed turnovers in the 4th quarter of game 7, the Warriors are most likely back-to-back champs and no one gives a **** about Barnes' poor shooting in the last 3 games of the series. Teams don't ask their 4th or 5th option to win games for them. That's the role of the superstars. And Curry mucked it up. I know it's fun for you to try and attribute the loss to Barnes, but he's far less responsible than Curry is for turning the ball over and taking terrible shots or even Green for getting suspended. That's who bears the bulk of the responsibility.
Personally, I'm thrilled Barnes got out of Oakland. He's already a world champion. Now he can get paid a lot more and grow more individually as a ball player. And who knows...maybe Dallas gets the right pieces around him and he's able to compete for titles with the Mavs in the future.
Fun for me or fun for the numerous analysts pointing his direction....Sure Curry played like a dog in the final but Barnes performance was totally insufficient over SEVERAL GAMES in the title series....Its not "fun," and I will be pulling for him in the Olympics.
OFC
Barnes was bad in the NBA finals....but Curry and Green were much more responsible. Golden State had Cleveland dead in the water but Draymond's antics throughout the playoffs finally caught up with him and the league MVP picked a bad time to be ordinary after an historic season. Sure, Barnes could have been better and made a shot or two more, but I think we're grasping when we try and pin the Warriors loss on their fourth or fifth option.
HB is in the Top 3 of most disliked Tar Heels for me. I think he is a head-case and I can imagine that he will implode. Much like what he did at UNC. The expectations for him at UNC were not met with reality. I think he finished his career "above average".
With a salary of $95m, I think we'll see the same (of loftier) expectations placed on him. I did not see him blossom at UNC....I did not see him blossom at GS....I don't see him doing anything different with the Mavs. It will be interesting to see the contrast between HB and Seth.
Completely agree with Sky on this. I still don't like him. I'll support the Olympic team, but hope the Black Falcon builds a nest on the pine.
Were Ingram's expectations met? Be careful how you answer because Barnes and Ingram have very similar per 40 minute averages. So was Ingram just "above average"?
And as far as Barnes being a "head case"...you and I must have different definitions of what a "head case" is. From virtually everyone's account, Barnes is as well liked by peers, coaches, GMs, etc. as anyone in the league.
What contrast are you referencing here?
As the 236th most efficient player in 2016, Barnes is poised for a breakout season. I predict he will be one of the 200 most efficient players in 2017. Anyone care to counter my bold prediction?
http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/hollinger/statistics/_/page/5
http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/hollinger/statistics/_/page/5
I'll bet he'll be one of the top 178 most efficient players next year. And because this is something that's so important to me, I'd bet a whole dollar on it.
Hey GSD -- I am happy to explain.
HB came into UNC with some stellar credentials and high expectations. He average 15+ ppg his freshman year and 17+ points his sophmore year. I think his performance was out of line with the expectations set upon him.
Maybe you can tell me -- Do you feel the UNC faithful were satisfied with HB's performance?
WRT Ingram -- I think he started weak and ended strong. The difference between HB and Ingram was Grayson was always expected to be (and was) the leader last year. I thought Brandon came into his own.
WRT to his current performance his NBA career is 10+ ppg lifetime. As was pointed out, his efficiency is not at the top of the list and your own stretch goal for him is 178th -- nice.
I think he is a headcase. I think he has a huge amount of expectations and they have not come true in the past.
Now he has been given a contract worth $95M and he is expecting to come in at 178th?! I know you were joking, but can you see my point? I think he is stepping into yet another role were he will not meet the heavy expectations placed on him.
Now the contrast with Seth? I think Seth has scrapped his way into a real contract with Dallas. The contrast will be in the difference between their performances and their costs. My guess is that fans will appreciate Seth more than Harrison. I think Harrison will not achieve the implied lofty goals placed on him by his contract.
Just like I think his effort to demonstrate being a pitchman for Skype failed and a nickname that has been a bit premature.
Could I be wrong? Oh heck yeah. I have been wrong before will be in the future.
As a side note -- glad he left UNC when he did. Had he stayed he would have been a Top 3-5 UNC player.
Hello and thank you.
Well first of all, he can't control the expectations that are put on him. But even still, 15 ppg and almost 6 rpg as a freshman on a loaded team is pretty good. And his numbers improved as a sophomore. He went for 40 in an ACC tournament game (not many players do that) and hit some big shots throughout his career. And as he still is, he was a versatile defender in Roy's system. Were UNC fans satisfied? I can't speak for everyone but I guess I was.
Are you insinuating that Barnes was supposed to be the leader on our team his freshman year? A team that had the eventual ACC POY in Zeller and the eventual DPOY in Henson? If you're claiming Ingram had to take a back seat to Allen how does that logic not also apply for Barnes with the older guys on his team?
First of all, the stat you're using to prove "efficiency" is bunk. Because I don't need a complex mathematical equation to tell me how efficient a player is. I can watch games and see his shot selection, the percentage he makes and when he's taking and making shots. I can also see his passes and if and when they lead to baskets and how defensive rebounds and steals thwart opponent's possessions. So all that calculating just to tell me that Barnes was supposedly the 238 most efficient player in the league means jack sh*t to me. I explained my sentiments on that in another thread. You may be a stats guy and like that kind of stuff and that's fine. But I evaluate play based on watching it. And I've been watching it long enough now that I trust my eye.
In regards to him being a head case - I still don't really understand what you're saying. You think he's hurting on the inside because of not meeting expectations (either fair or not) that others have put on him? Maybe. But I give Barnes and his intelligence more credit than that. Sure, that kind of thing might effect JR Smith or Dwight Howard or guys that aren't as smart as Barnes. But he's a confident guy (maybe you'd call it arrogant). I think he's pretty happy in his own skin. As far as his contract, I think it's ludicrous to pay him $95 million. But hell, if Kent Bazemore can make that kind of money, so can Barnes. But you'll get no argument from me about contracts in the NBA being completely out of control. But it's certainly not specific to Barnes. As far as the "expectations"...what are they? I have no idea what Dallas is expecting out of Barnes. Do you? If he can average 18 and 7, is that good enough?
Maybe, but the back up QB is always the most popular guy from the fans' standpoint. That's just how it is. Guys like Barnes are smart enough to know that. Again, I think Barnes is comfortable with himself regardless of how well he performs. He's a pretty grounded individual and seems to understand what's important. I'm sure he wants to play well for himself. And I'm sure like anyone, he wants his fanbase to like him. But I also think he understands the nature of professional sports.
That Skype thing really sticks in y'all's craw, huh? Admittedly, I wasn't a big fan because I tend to be old school in my thinking and I don't like the attention seeking stuff. But he's no more a participant in it than any other 24 year old. It's the times.
Had Barnes stayed, yeah, maybe he'd be a top 5er in UNC history but I doubt it. It would be hard for him to beat out Hansbrough, Ford, Jordan, Worthy, Perkins, Cunningham, Rosenbluth, Larry Miller, Jamison and a couple others.
So you're going to disregard the most widely used and regarded statistical metric out there to gauge player efficiency and tell us how your subjective eye test is more relevant? Gotcha. Sound argument.
Hey GSD -- I know that you are going to defend your guy. And, I have enjoyed your posts here.
So to summarize:
1. Were UNC fan's satisfied? You were (you guess?), couldn't speak to the community as a whole. Fair enough.
2. Was HB expected to be a leader on the team? Well, I think he was the first freshman to be voted as a pre-season All American. It would be like getting the Nobel Peace Prize and you haven't even done anything. Expectations high? I think so. Assumed leadership role, I think so. I don't recall if there were other UNC players on the list. And the following year? Yeah he was on the pre-season first team All American list again. Was Henderson? Was Zeller? No. Zeller did get on the list (I think) as a 2nd team All American post season. Happy to have you correct me -- I am not up on my UNC stats.
3. The efficiency rating system for the NBA is bunk. Guess I missed the thread on your keen eye over stats. I did mention that I can stuff wrong -- I see that you used statistics from a Reddit post to point that out. Interesting. So was Harrison a good NBA player?
4. You don't know what Dallas' expectations are -- neither do I. I am guessing (just guessing) that if Cuban is shelling out $95m he is probably expecting a pretty good performance. Does that seem fair?
5. The backup QB is always the most popular? Really? Not been my experience. I think Cam Newton is a pretty popular guy...I don't know who the backup is for the Panthers. Maybe, that's just me. Do I think Seth will be a popular player? Yeah.
6. The Skype thing stuck in my craw? Yeah it did.
7. The last point -- I do think HB could have been in the Top 5. He was trending right. And still glad he left.
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That's exactly what I'm saying. Your endorsement is of little concern to me.
Again though, he had no control over what expectations other put on him (no one does for that matter). Maybe the only reason Ingram wasn't a preseason AA was because writers saw the error of their ways with Barnes. Who knows. I think all of us on the Carolina board as well as y'all here at the duke board found that be pretty ridiculous. Has it happened since? And your Nobel peace Prize analogy doesn't work though. Because that's an award that's given to someone after they have proven they deserve it. That would be akin to a post season AA award. Do they give preseason Nobel Peace Prizes?
I explained earlier in this thread or maybe another thread that the player efficiency rating doesn't take certain things into account such as clutch shot making, turnovers in the last 2 minutes of a game, or just generally performance in crunch time. And if I know anything about the NBA, it's that players go through the motions for about 40 of the 48 minutes. An NBA game basically starts at the 8 minute mark of the 4th quarter.
I'm not against statistics. I like them. I'm not totally against the one you and other have cited to use against Barnes. I guess it's not totally bunk. But it certainly isn't an end all be all for me. It's one of many factors I use to evaluate a player. Again, I like stats. But if I showed you a stat line that said player X scored 15 points on just 6 shots and had a FG% of 50%, you'd probably say that player is fairly efficient and had a good game. But again, that one stat doesn't tell the whole story. Maybe player X scored all of his points in the first quarter and was nonexistent down the stretch. Or maybe he shot 4 technical foul shots to score 4 of his points (foul shots he didn't earn). Again, I'm just saying that I'll trust my watching a player over stats any day of the week. If you're not like that, that's fine by me.
Right. I imagine so too. But what is a "good performance"? What Cuban deems a "good performance", you may not. So really, what you or I think of it is irrelevant. What Cuban thinks is the only opinion that matters. But again, would averages of 18 and 7 and 50% from the field be "good" to you at first glance?
I don't know how old you are but if you're unfamiliar with that adage, then I'd put you as a millennial. But anyway, that's a thing. Everybody's favorite player is the back up QB. It's to say that fans are finicky and that the minute the guy in front stops producing, fans are clamoring for the back up. I'm sure some older folks here can back me up on that.
Like going 5 for 32 in games 5, 6, and 7 of the NBA Finals?
I think our current president got one before he took office....
I grew up in Dallas and am a Cowboy fan. Roger Staubach was my favorite player and I don't know who his backup was either.
Hey GSD -- I get that your defending your guy. He has a $95m contract and his NBA career has him at a little over 10 points per game. I think that disconnect is going to lead to a host of problems for Barnes.