Anyone else watch the 3 part series? GD that was depressing, had no idea how many concussions he had and what a terrible alcoholic he became. Not to mention mental issues. Had a horrible relationship with his three sons, multiple wives, etc. Not a real happy life, to say the least. But, as always, anything Burns does is usually well worth watching.
Hemingway Ken Burns on PBS
- Thread starter Tskware
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His good books were all time greats. The average of all is slightly above the mean.
I grew up a lot between page 1 and 90 of The Old Man and the Sea.
I binged watched on prime video with 7 day trial of pbs channel.
(spoilers alert) His momma messed his head up early with dressing him and his sister with alternating gender clothes. (referenced several times in the documentary)
The guy could tell a story that could take you there but as a person I wouldn't have liked him if i had known him.
I didn't live during his early life. If i had, I might perceive him different.
He left the world like his dad which he blamed on his mom.
He was an adrenaline junkie. His life is a glorified tragedy.
May he RIP.
Worth watching.
(spoilers alert) His momma messed his head up early with dressing him and his sister with alternating gender clothes. (referenced several times in the documentary)
The guy could tell a story that could take you there but as a person I wouldn't have liked him if i had known him.
I didn't live during his early life. If i had, I might perceive him different.
He left the world like his dad which he blamed on his mom.
He was an adrenaline junkie. His life is a glorified tragedy.
May he RIP.
Worth watching.
Complete with six toes cats.
It was a cool documentary and very interesting for me to see the old photos of his KW house from above as I live a block from there and can see it from my house. Very informative and fun tour if you ever have the chance.
It was a far more complicated story than the summary in the OP. He lived a monumental life, experienced more of the planet and its dramas than all but a tiny fraction of people, and along the way behaved nobly at times, and terribly at other times.
The best of his writing changed virtually everything written in English that came after it. Saying its "mediocre" or "average" compared to novelists who came later is like saying that the Stray Cats rocked out better than Elvis in 56.
To anyone who dreams of living a Big Life, he's still the standard -- neck deep in three wars, relationships with dozens of women, friendships with the most interesting people alive in his day, Paris before it was ruined, Spain when it was still Spain, East Africa before the game preserves became a tourist ride at Disney, Key West and Cuba when they were colorful, exotic paradises, and on and on.
The best of his writing changed virtually everything written in English that came after it. Saying its "mediocre" or "average" compared to novelists who came later is like saying that the Stray Cats rocked out better than Elvis in 56.
To anyone who dreams of living a Big Life, he's still the standard -- neck deep in three wars, relationships with dozens of women, friendships with the most interesting people alive in his day, Paris before it was ruined, Spain when it was still Spain, East Africa before the game preserves became a tourist ride at Disney, Key West and Cuba when they were colorful, exotic paradises, and on and on.
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-"neck deep to in three wars". Nope...that's bravado and pr. I'll stick to the spanish civil war, as it's a keen interest of mine: his mistress Martha Gellhorn was considerably more "neck deep" than Ol' Ernie. Malreaux /Orwell/Koestler et al...we're actually "involved" in the conflict. Hemingway was(likely unwittingly) shooting communist propaganda films for uncle joe stalin with Joris Ivens...in some out of the way location.
^none of this to say he wasn't an important writer. Just that his lionization by some folks is rooted in nostalgia...due to a combo of high school reading assignments and believing the hype/legend that hemingway/the press created for himself. There are folks that *actually* lived the big life...check out Arthur Koestler, for a good example.
@HymanKaplan
^none of this to say he wasn't an important writer. Just that his lionization by some folks is rooted in nostalgia...due to a combo of high school reading assignments and believing the hype/legend that hemingway/the press created for himself. There are folks that *actually* lived the big life...check out Arthur Koestler, for a good example.
@HymanKaplan
-ill give you WW1. He was in the red cross, iirc.
-ive read dozens of books(I'm a dork) on the scw... hemingway was a bit player, he was "around" I guess. As always he played up his role...as he was wont to do. As I stated the most significant thing he did in that conflict was star in soviet propaganda.
-ww2 he was a military correspondent...along with hundreds if not thousands of other folk.
^again...he was an important writer. He wasn't the god-like figure a lot of folks *want* him to have been.
-ive read dozens of books(I'm a dork) on the scw... hemingway was a bit player, he was "around" I guess. As always he played up his role...as he was wont to do. As I stated the most significant thing he did in that conflict was star in soviet propaganda.
-ww2 he was a military correspondent...along with hundreds if not thousands of other folk.
^again...he was an important writer. He wasn't the god-like figure a lot of folks *want* him to have been.
I have read most of Hemingway's works, maybe all of them, but most I read a long time ago.
My favorites were in order:
1. For Whom the Bell Tolls
1A. Farewell to Arms
2. Sun Also Rises
I don't remember thinking The Old Man and the Sea was his best work, some have suggested he won the Nobel Prize more as a career win than for that particular book. IIRC I enjoyed Snows of Kiliminjaro more.
Thought A Moveable Feast was a really interesting take on the scene in Paris post WWI, i.e., the heyday of the Lost Generation. P.S. They all drank WAY more than is good for you.
P.S.P.S. Whatever he did in any of the three conflicts is way more than I have done. Also, not sure that detracts from his work. Stephen Crane wrote the Red Badge of Courage based mainly on interviews with veterans, IIRC, he never served in the Civil War.
My favorites were in order:
1. For Whom the Bell Tolls
1A. Farewell to Arms
2. Sun Also Rises
I don't remember thinking The Old Man and the Sea was his best work, some have suggested he won the Nobel Prize more as a career win than for that particular book. IIRC I enjoyed Snows of Kiliminjaro more.
Thought A Moveable Feast was a really interesting take on the scene in Paris post WWI, i.e., the heyday of the Lost Generation. P.S. They all drank WAY more than is good for you.
P.S.P.S. Whatever he did in any of the three conflicts is way more than I have done. Also, not sure that detracts from his work. Stephen Crane wrote the Red Badge of Courage based mainly on interviews with veterans, IIRC, he never served in the Civil War.
How in the hell did I miss a perfect opportunity to trash Hemingway?
My dick doesn't work.
I didn't catch the fish.
The best way to raise a son, is to engage in a f***ed up oedipal battle with him. BTW, that piece of driftwood reminds me of my son. I'm going to wait to burn it. Until I'm in the proper mood to relish it.
This... is how, to write, dialogue.
Does that cover everything?
He was trash. His books were trash. They were written like a 12 year old kid. Which is essentially what he remained for his entire life.
And if that wasn't enough, he was an utterly mean-spirited bully. And he couldn't handle his booze worth a damn. (Being able to drink massive quantities of it doesn't mean ****, if it turns you into an even MORE obnoxious bully.)
The ultimate irony is that everything ABOUT him; his writing, his behavior, his propensity to over-compensate,, smacks of self-loathing but latent homosexuality. Not that I have a problem with homosexuality, but if that is your "bent' don't take it out on everyone else. Be man enough to accept, nay, EMBRACE it. If he'd done so he'd have probably been a much better writer. It worked for Truman Capote, Tennessee Williams etc. etc.
My dick doesn't work.
I didn't catch the fish.
The best way to raise a son, is to engage in a f***ed up oedipal battle with him. BTW, that piece of driftwood reminds me of my son. I'm going to wait to burn it. Until I'm in the proper mood to relish it.
This... is how, to write, dialogue.
Does that cover everything?
He was trash. His books were trash. They were written like a 12 year old kid. Which is essentially what he remained for his entire life.
And if that wasn't enough, he was an utterly mean-spirited bully. And he couldn't handle his booze worth a damn. (Being able to drink massive quantities of it doesn't mean ****, if it turns you into an even MORE obnoxious bully.)
The ultimate irony is that everything ABOUT him; his writing, his behavior, his propensity to over-compensate,, smacks of self-loathing but latent homosexuality. Not that I have a problem with homosexuality, but if that is your "bent' don't take it out on everyone else. Be man enough to accept, nay, EMBRACE it. If he'd done so he'd have probably been a much better writer. It worked for Truman Capote, Tennessee Williams etc. etc.
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BTW - That Thompson machine gun was on the Pilar because rather than have a prized catch marred by sharks (and thus ruining the photo op at the pier), he'd slaughter the sharks with it. That's right. He open fired on fish with a machine gun, and for what? Vanity...
Seriously, in case you haven't caught on, I think he was the embodiment of vileness.
Seriously, in case you haven't caught on, I think he was the embodiment of vileness.
I actually like - not like cause it's Hemingway - but really like "A Farewell to Arms". I wanted to like "Sun Also Rises" cause I'm a snobby prick who spent a lot of time in Europe, but that book's boring as ****. The fish book is an easy beach read, but nothing I'd want to read again. I'll give "For Whom the Bell Tolls" a shot I guess.