Home Theater speaker layout

[mcwildcats04]

Question on home theater speaker layout as I'm still in the process of trying to figure out how I'm going to set up my new home theater (replacing all of the electronics/equipment that came with our house when we moved in 7 years ago). Only thing I know I'm doing right now for sure is splurging on a 77" LG OLED to mount on the wall.

But, the speakers, man has this been a nightmare to try and figure out (so many brands, so many speaker types within a brand, etc.). I was initially against it but now I'm open to doing floor towers in the front but very close to the wall. But, really trying to figure out the rest of the setup as I really don't have the right room layout or really even the space (kids, etc.) to try and do floor speakers for my side and rear surround speakers.

So, hoping to try and just do in-ceiling speakers for my side and rear surround speakers to end up with a 7.1.4 Dolby Atmos setup. If I have amazing speakers for the front, will it work okay to pair that with in-ceiling speakers for the rest? I know this is not ideal but sounds like the front is the most important part.

 

[joeyrupption]

GO invisible speakers in the drywall or go home, IMO.

 

[mcwildcats04]

GO invisible speakers in the drywall or go home, IMO.

Are you talking about for the fronts as well? If so, my understanding is the sound won't be anywhere near as good as a floor tower out in the open. I have looked into whether or not I could carve out a space actually within the drywall and put the floor towers in those but sounds like this isn't ideal either.

I should add someone did mention the potential to do the two side speakers in-wall as opposed to in-ceiling but the problem is the left speaker would be 20 feet across the room in the other wall (my room is very open where one half is basically the home theater half and the other open half is just open space where kids run and play, etc.). Someone mentioned I could just do an adjustment on that speaker to try and have it sync with all of the other speakers but I'm skeptical as to how well this could actually work given it's about 20 feet or so away.

 

[Ahnan E. Muss]

The usual list of questions:

budget?
how big is the space? give dimensions?
focus on movies, or music, or both?
how many speakers are you going to do? 5.1? 7.1? 5.2? 7.2? etc.
how loud do you listen? not very loud? moderately loud? super loud in a big room?

You're right that there are endless options in speakers. Endless brands, endless models, stand mount, tower, in wall, etc.

 

[Ahnan E. Muss]

No matter how you answer, the recommendation will be:

1. NAS/Plex
2. Place TV above fireplace.
3. ??
4. Profit.

 

[LordEggForgotHisPassword_rivals]

If you ain’t going 22.4 then you won’t find much help here.

 

[mcwildcats04]

The usual list of questions:

budget?
how big is the space? give dimensions?
focus on movies, or music, or both?
how many speakers are you going to do? 5.1? 7.1? 5.2? 7.2? etc.
how loud do you listen? not very loud? moderately loud? super loud in a big room?

You're right that there are endless options in speakers. Endless brands, endless models, stand mount, tower, in wall, etc.

I've set aside a good chunk for this project. The 77" LG OLED is $9K itself so I want to pair it with a nice sound system. Willing to go up to $10K on speakers if I have to. I have to say I really like the look of KEF speakers and their R line in particular and the overall reviews appear to be very good but haven't had a chance to listen to yet: http://us.kef.com/hi-fi-speakers/hi-fi-speaker-series/r-series . I'd go with the R900 floor towers if I go this route and pair with the R600c center channel and then have to find some other in-ceilings (whether KEF or another brand). That's what I'm initially thinking.

The room is a very open floor plan. I'd say it's about 15 - 20 feet deep then roughly 30 feet wide. But, the area where the home theater is confined to really just fits into about half of that width so figure about 15 feet deep and roughly 15 feet wide with what I think are 12 foot ceilings.

I'm primarily doing this for sports but then I do watch movies and shows too. I love music but that's secondary for the system.

Planning on 7.1.4 or so for the setup (sorry no 22.4 LOL).

I'd say I only listen moderately loud and I'm not an audiophile or anything so I'm sure I'll love whatever I get so I'm sure I'm overthinking all of this but still want to try and make this as nice as possible.

 

[TexasTimCat]

I am in the middle of finishing out our basement and creating a home theater.

Here is what I settled on:

Samsung 82" UHD 4K w/HDR
Pioneer Elite 7.2 Receiver
Pioneer Towers for Front L/R and Back L/R
Pioneer Center and Subs
Bose 161's mounted on the wall for the Back High L/R

 

[argubs2]

Are you concerned at all about OLED burn in on that $9K TV? Maybe you're aware and comfortable but damn, that's a shitload of money to drop on a TV with a pretty well documented burn in risk.

 

[WonderBraa]

I do not understand the appeal of this stuff

 

[argubs2]

As recently as early July LG fell on their face with it again, I'd tread lightly

 

[mcwildcats04]

Are you concerned at all about OLED burn in on that $9K TV? Maybe you're aware and comfortable but damn, that's a shitload of money to drop on a TV with a pretty well documented burn in risk.

That is the one big potential concern obviously. But, I read where on this year's model they have a specific feature that you can turn on that dramatically reduces the impact of any static images once the TV recognizes they've been static for a period of time. It's supposed to dramatically reduce the risk. I'd also look into what warranty is provided by LG and maybe even look into an extended type warranty if I purchase from a place like Best Buy.

That article you linked is for the 2017 model. Again, hopefully the 2018 model has significantly reduced this risk with the new feature. Also, they left the TV on for extended periods to cause that burn in and I wouldn't just be leaving a TV on for 8 hours or more straight a day. At most, I watch TV for a few hours at night and turn it off.

 

[argubs2]

That article actually references the incident in May, so ZDNet headquarters apparently just had their internet connection restored in early July.

Yeah it was a 2017 model. If you're comfortable go for it man...but for less than half of what you're paying for that OLED, you could get a fantastic LCD / LED at the same size or bigger and then upgrade in 5 years to 8K with the other half of your budget with less risk, IMO. Just trying to help a wildcat friend out with an opinion.

 

[mcwildcats04]

That article actually references the incident in May, so ZDNet headquarters apparently just had their internet connection restored in early July.

Yeah it was a 2017 model. If you're comfortable go for it man...but for less than half of what you're paying for that OLED, you could get a fantastic LCD / LED at the same size or bigger and then upgrade in 5 years to 8K with the other half of your budget with less risk, IMO. Just trying to help a wildcat friend out with an opinion.

Hey man, absolutely I appreciate the advice. You are right, I should double-check the other options too. I saw the LG in person and fell in love with it but I should check the other options too before I buy.

 

[DSmith21]

Samsung has a different technology (QLED) in their top end TVs that is supposed to be the next best thing to OLED. QLED does not have a burn in issue and is less expensive. Below is a comparison of the two technologies.

https://www.digitaltrends.com/home-theater/qled-vs-oled-tv/

I just checked Best Buy and the 2018 Flagship 75" Samsung QLED (Q9 model) is $5,500 vs. your $9,000 top end LG.

 

[Ahnan E. Muss]

That's a really large space to fill with sound. You're going to want/need two subwoofers, not just one. Speakers need to be able to play to the distance you sit from them, but subwoofers need to be able to play to the dimensions of the entire space they are in. So it would be one HUGE subwoofer or multiple reasonable-sized ones for a room that big. Multiple subwoofers have advantages over a single one.

Those KEF speakers are quite nice. The R series is either closing out now or soon will be, so only get them if you're getting a significant discount off of list price.

 

[Ahnan E. Muss]

One other thing: If you are going to be using subwoofers, the need for the largest of the KEF towers is somewhat negated. The only reason for going from the R500s to the R700s to the R900s is the increased bass extension (and ability to play midbass really loudly). If you're using subs for the lowest two octaves, you don't necessarily need the extra bass extension the 900s have over the 700s.

On the other hand the 900s will play louder with less strain, but that would be really loud before you get to that point.

 

[Monroe Claxton]

Get an Iranian subwoofer before the sanctions kick in

 

[mcwildcats04]

Samsung has a different technology (QLED) in their top end TVs that is supposed to be the next best thing to OLED. QLED does not have a burn in issue and is less expensive. Below is a comparison of the two technologies.

https://www.digitaltrends.com/home-theater/qled-vs-oled-tv/

I just checked Best Buy and the 2018 Flagship 75" Samsung QLED (Q9 model) is $5,500 vs. your $9,000 top end LG.

Yes, I think that is the direct competition I need to consider. Really just need to go look at both in person and determine if the significant premium for the LG is worth it.

 

[mcwildcats04]

That's a really large space to fill with sound. You're going to want/need two subwoofers, not just one. Speakers need to be able to play to the distance you sit from them, but subwoofers need to be able to play to the dimensions of the entire space they are in. So it would be one HUGE subwoofer or multiple reasonable-sized ones for a room that big. Multiple subwoofers have advantages over a single one.

Those KEF speakers are quite nice. The R series is either closing out now or soon will be, so only get them if you're getting a significant discount off of list price.

Thanks for all your comments. Where did you hear about the R series closing out soon? I haven't been able to find anything on that.

I'm meeting with a few people in person tomorrow that I am hoping can give some additional guidance (especially the one that will see my setup in person).

 

[Ahnan E. Muss]

There is supposedly a new R series that will be announced in the next few months.

I can't remember where I read that - I spend nearly all day on audio sites, too many to keep track of.

But the fact that the current R series is on sale is a hint.

 

[mcwildcats04]

There is supposedly a new R series that will be announced in the next few months.

I can't remember where I read that - I spend nearly all day on audio sites, too many to keep track of.

But the fact that the current R series is on sale is a hint.

Hey man just FYI, I don't know how I missed it but KEF has a higher-end line that is specific to home theater that is THX quality and all in-wall and in-ceiling. See: http://us.kef.com/architectural-speakers/architectural-speakers/thx-extreme-home-theatre .

Sounds like the 5160RL is supposed to basically duplicate the sound of the R floor towers I was looking at but doing it all in-wall. I'm going to look into if I can do my setup with the speakers from this line but keeping in mind I'm going to have to go all in-wall on the front and then just all in-ceiling on the rest.

 

[Ahnan E. Muss]

I'm aware of their in-wall lineup, but I don't have any personal experience with them.

I'd prefer floorstanders or stand-mounts over in-walls for the front L&R, and a standalone center. I think you can get by with in-walls for surrounds, but for the front three it's a step down in my opinion.

The KEF in-walls have been discussed recently on the AVS forum thread dedicated to KEF speakers. Check it out and see what people are saying:

https://www.avsforum.com/forum/89-speakers/724103-kef-owners-thread-486.html

 

[mcwildcats04]

I'm aware of their in-wall lineup, but I don't have any personal experience with them.

I'd prefer floorstanders or stand-mounts over in-walls for the front L&R, and a standalone center. I think you can get by with in-walls for surrounds, but for the front three it's a step down in my opinion.

The KEF in-walls have been discussed recently on the AVS forum thread dedicated to KEF speakers. Check it out and see what people are saying:

https://www.avsforum.com/forum/89-speakers/724103-kef-owners-thread-486.html

Thanks. I saw some post on that forum that said KEF gets more discussion on the British version of that site, avforums.com so I made a post over there to try and get more feedback on this specific line. I also found a few authorized dealers close to me so going to see if I can go listen in person and also going to try and just call KEF direct to see how well my ideal set-up may work.

 

[Ahnan E. Muss]

Read through the AVS thread's last few pages. I'm pretty sure they were discussing in walls there recently. And ask questions and you should get responses.

The British site does have some KEF activity, with KEF formerly being a British company. It's a decent site, but like AVS, take any of it with a grain of salt. There are experts on there and idiots, and for a newcomer it might be hard to tell which is which.

Same goes for authorized dealers - lots of them are full of you-know-what. Some are honest and knowledgeable, but so many are nothing but shysters.

KEFDirect.com has several models on sale right now. I think their customer support is supposed to be pretty good and responsive.

 

[Ahnan E. Muss]

A couple of quick tips:

1. Regarding subwoofers, conventional wisdom on most of the audio forums is that you get way more bang for your buck by going with internet direct companies (SVS, Hsu, Rhythmik, Power Sound Audio, etc) and avoiding buying from dealers. Your subwoofers don't have to match the brand of your other speakers.

2. If a dealer tries to upsell you on special cables, whether HDMI cables or speaker wire or whatever, run away. They're ripping you off.

 

[mcwildcats04]

A couple of quick tips:

1. Regarding subwoofers, conventional wisdom on most of the audio forums is that you get way more bang for your buck by going with internet direct companies (SVS, Hsu, Rhythmik, Power Sound Audio, etc) and avoiding buying from dealers. Your subwoofers don't have to match the brand of your other speakers.

2. If a dealer tries to upsell you on special cables, whether HDMI cables or speaker wire or whatever, run away. They're ripping you off.

Ha that's funny you mention on the cables. The Best Buy guy was really talking up the need for the AudioQuest cables and I just kind of chuckled inside. Seemed like a total rip-off given everything I have read on this. I think he was saying the degree of silver in the connectors made the big difference and accounted for the price differences. Seemed like a joke to me.

 

[mcwildcats04]

Read through the AVS thread's last few pages. I'm pretty sure they were discussing in walls there recently. And ask questions and you should get responses.

The British site does have some KEF activity, with KEF formerly being a British company. It's a decent site, but like AVS, take any of it with a grain of salt. There are experts on there and idiots, and for a newcomer it might be hard to tell which is which.

Same goes for authorized dealers - lots of them are full of you-know-what. Some are honest and knowledgeable, but so many are nothing but shysters.

KEFDirect.com has several models on sale right now. I think their customer support is supposed to be pretty good and responsive.

So, I've now received what I think is pretty good feedback on the AVS forum. Here's my latest post: https://www.avsforum.com/forum/89-speakers/724103-kef-owners-thread-486.html#post56596920 .

Still struggling to nail down what I can exactly do. I am going to call KEF directly next week and see if I can get clear answers direct from them on the phone or if it's possible to have one of their actual reps to come out to my home (I'm willing to pay if it's not absurd).

The short is it doesn't seem possible to do solely in-ceiling Atmos speakers and pair that with other in-ceiling side and rear speakers to get the typical 7.1.4 layout. Just trying to nail down if it's possible to do floor towers in the front with the up firing Atmos modules and then hopefully that will allow more flexibility in the side and rear in-ceiling speakers to get at least a 7.1.2 layout, if not 7.1.4. If not, it looks like I may just be stuck with a 3.1.4 layout but I'm sure that will be good enough for me anyways since I'm mainly doing this just for sports anyways.

 

[Ahnan E. Muss]

Are you focusing too much on Atmos capability if your main viewing will be sports? Are there any sports broadcast in Atmos?

I don't have Atmos capability so I don't know what I'm missing. But isn't it only a handful of recent release movies that are even recorded in Atmos?

I'd focus on making your front three the best you can (left, right, and center), and then two good subwoofers would be next in terms of importance. Then surrounds come next after that. Atmos speakers would be last on my list of importance. They, in my opinion, are not a need, but rather a luxury add-on to be contemplated once everything else is squared away.

 

[mcwildcats04]

Are you focusing too much on Atmos capability if your main viewing will be sports? Are there any sports broadcast in Atmos?

I don't have Atmos capability so I don't know what I'm missing. But isn't it only a handful of recent release movies that are even recorded in Atmos?

I'd focus on making your front three the best you can (left, right, and center), and then two good subwoofers would be next in terms of importance. Then surrounds come next after that. Atmos speakers would be last on my list of importance. They, in my opinion, are not a need, but rather a luxury add-on to be contemplated once everything else is squared away.

Yeah you may be right. I feel pretty good about the options I'm considering on the front other than yes I still need to nail down the subwoofer(s). Been more just trying to think through how I can best get the side and rear surrounds to work given they have to be in-ceiling. I guess if I had to I could cut out the Atmos speakers and get more of a 7.1 setup. I guess it's still a question of how well the side and rear surrounds would work together just being all in-ceiling.

 

[UK 82]

Yeah you may be right. I feel pretty good about the options I'm considering on the front other than yes I still need to nail down the subwoofer(s). Been more just trying to think through how I can best get the side and rear surrounds to work given they have to be in-ceiling. I guess if I had to I could cut out the Atmos speakers and get more of a 7.1 setup. I guess it's still a question of how well the side and rear surrounds would work together just being all in-ceiling.

7.1 or 7.2 is plenty IMO. I have a 6.1 with a Buttkicker and I really have no desire to upgrade.