Thank you for the reply. I stand by my opinion. I am looking forward to winning seasons; and I feel that we are close. Go Cats!!
How many wins do the Cats need for a successful ('16) season?
- Thread starter 12375CAT
- Start date
MSU, UT, and UGA were unranked when they defeated us 42-16, 52-21, & 27-3 respectively. UNSAT!
After four years of FB....a coaching staff should be able to get to 6 wins. That is the bare minimum in year four. 6 wins=D. Translation: you passed (barely). You get to come back to school (UK) next year for year five.
IMHO, there are four factors that could lead to a successful season:
(1) Significant improvement across all positions in football fundamentals.
I realize Coach Stoops inherited a weak team in terms of fundamentals and fundamentals have been a problem at UK for a long time. Unfortunately, I have seen very little improvement year-to-year in fundamentals during the Stoops era.
(2) Players need to be much more physical.
For all of the talk about getting better recruits and getting "bigger stronger faster", improvement in this area has been spotty at best.
(3) Coaches need to demonstrate marked improvement in managing the game.
The Chinese fire drills in moving players on and off the field, especially for special teams, must be eliminated. Positive half-time adjustments have been rare during the Stoops era. Such adjustments must become the rule not the exception. Clock management must get considerably better.
(4) Overall improvement game-by-game as the season progresses.
Sure the second half of the schedules in the Stoops era have been tougher. But there is absolutely no excuse for the total collapses we have seen. To quote a statement that has probably been around since the inception of football--"When the going gets tough, the tough get going!"
Improve in these areas and the wins will follow. Continue what we've seen thus far in the Stoops era and we are in for another disappointing season.
(1) Significant improvement across all positions in football fundamentals.
I realize Coach Stoops inherited a weak team in terms of fundamentals and fundamentals have been a problem at UK for a long time. Unfortunately, I have seen very little improvement year-to-year in fundamentals during the Stoops era.
(2) Players need to be much more physical.
For all of the talk about getting better recruits and getting "bigger stronger faster", improvement in this area has been spotty at best.
(3) Coaches need to demonstrate marked improvement in managing the game.
The Chinese fire drills in moving players on and off the field, especially for special teams, must be eliminated. Positive half-time adjustments have been rare during the Stoops era. Such adjustments must become the rule not the exception. Clock management must get considerably better.
(4) Overall improvement game-by-game as the season progresses.
Sure the second half of the schedules in the Stoops era have been tougher. But there is absolutely no excuse for the total collapses we have seen. To quote a statement that has probably been around since the inception of football--"When the going gets tough, the tough get going!"
Improve in these areas and the wins will follow. Continue what we've seen thus far in the Stoops era and we are in for another disappointing season.
Last edited:
Asking how many wins a team needs for a successful season is an oxymoron, because it depends on how you define successful. Some of our fans define success as a bowl trip. But other fans criticized Kentucky's run of Music City Bowls under Rich Brooks. I supported Stoops' hiring in 2013. Since then, I have become a little bit more neutral, because of Stoops' judgment lapses. I am excited by what Stoops does best - which is recruiting. But the Dawson hire, multiple examples of clock mismanagement, and disastrous mismanagement of our quarterbacks in November showed that Stoops still struggles with the learning curve as a P5 head coach. We should have won 6 games in 2015, and I think an experienced head coach might have won 7 with our roster. But Stoops won only 5. Look at our 2016 schedule, which is much tougher. If our quarterbacks struggle, which is likely, then Stoops wins 4 or 5 in 2016. With Drew Barker and Steve Johnson as his quarterbacks, if Stoops wins 6 games in 2016 against Kentucky's schedule, it would be a successful answer to the disappointments of 2015 in my book. But the true test is how well Stoops develops his 2014, 2015, 2016 recruiting classes into competitive teams in 2017, 2018, 2019. Stoops probably will last that long in Lexington if he continues to recruit like he is recruiting this year. But it's possible that 2016 could turn really ugly for him. Would not surprise me at all, because we have a real problem at the quarterback position, and our locker room is still divided. So the 1st thing Stoops has to do is get his team's full attention and full effort for 12 games. Not just in August and September.
Yeah, and none of those teams should have been unranked, and finished the year ranked. So, I don't view them as unranked opponents.
That is probably correct,Stoops has painted himself into a 6 win or else corner for the coming season.If he could have pulled that off last season he would have bought himself 2 or 3 more years to work with.
I don't think the schedule is as bad as some make it out to be,it is not as favorable as was last year but still has at least 6 winnable games. We missed the boat last year at Vandy(yes pun intended)
You could even say we missed the boat against Louisville. This is what I keep saying about Stoops, we can not finish the second half of the seasons, we totally collapse and don't show improvement- he has a big hurdle w this.
Regardless of your "view"--they were 3-straight blowouts by 3-unranked teams. UK must give a better account on the field.
Yes,up 21-0 and don't close the deal,the boat reference was in honor of the Commodores
While some people, apparently including you, may feel that Stoops painted himself into a corner with a 6 win expectation, I am in the minority that disagrees. 2015 was an unfortunate missed opportunity. You say our 2016 schedule isn't as bad as others think. But I disagree with you there. Look again. It's tougher. Add to that, Kentucky doesn't have any experienced quarterbacks, Barker looked totally lost in November. There is still discontent in our locker room that must be addressed 1 way or the other. That means more players leaving in the spring. So if Stoops can squeeze 6 wins out of our 2016 schedule, that would be more than a successful season in my book. I think it would be a dramatic validation of the Gran hire, and a sign that Stoops takes a major maturation step forward as a head coach. Right now, I only see 4-5 wins coming out of our 2016 schedule, but you never know which teams will make progress and which teams will backslide during the offseason. For Kentucky to make that kind of forward progress, Stoops, Gran, Eliot have a lot of work to do in 6 months.
I don't really see where we disagree all that much;
Stoops had a better chance to get 6 wins in 15' than he does in 16',the schedule is tougher(USC. Mizzou Vandy and UF are games we can win)
Stoops is in a corner if he wants to keep recruiting at the level he has so far,he needs very badly to win 6 and get to a bowl. Yes it will be a good coaching job by Stoops and staff to get there this year.In order to keep prospective players and the fanbase on board he need to show results in terms of W's
To be sure the QB situation is an issue but we will be better at some other positions from day 1.Neither Towles or Barker set the QB world afire last year so how much worse will it really be?
Last edited:
2016 SCHEDULE
SOUTHERN MISS W
at Florida L
NEW MEXICO STATE W
SOUTH CAROLINA W
Alabama Lol
VANDERBILT W
MISSISSIPPI STATE L (possible W)
Missouri W
GEORGIA L
Tennessee L
AUSTIN PEAY W
Louisville W
I don't think that would be out of the realm of possibilities, but that would put us at 7-5 (possible 8-4 with Miss St at home). With no major screw ups and winning against susceptible teams in USC and Mizzo we can make 6+ wins as long as Barker/Johnson preform and we have improvement in the defense.
Go Cats!
SOUTHERN MISS W
at Florida L
NEW MEXICO STATE W
SOUTH CAROLINA W
Alabama Lol
VANDERBILT W
MISSISSIPPI STATE L (possible W)
Missouri W
GEORGIA L
Tennessee L
AUSTIN PEAY W
Louisville W
I don't think that would be out of the realm of possibilities, but that would put us at 7-5 (possible 8-4 with Miss St at home). With no major screw ups and winning against susceptible teams in USC and Mizzo we can make 6+ wins as long as Barker/Johnson preform and we have improvement in the defense.
Go Cats!
They were indeed unranked when we played them. By that standard, if we are stuck with three blowout losses to unranked teams, then we also get to claim a win against a ranked Mizzou team.
Mostly I agree with you, but what is doing it for me is the TOTAL lack of organization both on the sidelines, team & evidently coaching turmoil...I have very little optimism on going into this season, but am forever hopeful
Good post! My view is to be successful it's got to be at least 6 -- however I believe with the new OC, QB and WR coaches and the ST experience they bring too, we can win 7 or 8 games. I feel Coach Stoops is going to learn a lot from last season and become a tas master this off season for organization and execution.
My prediction is IF we win impressively at home against So. Miss we will upset Florida on the road the next week!!
Here's where we disagree. Without an experienced quarterback, we won't beat Florida in the Swamp in September. That isn't going to happen. South Carolina, Mizzou, Vandy are beatable, but we will lose some of those games too unless 1 of our quarterbacks overachieves. Barker played in November like he was totally lost. Part of that happened because our offensive line was awful, but that's also why Towles was inconsistent. Except for losing Swindle and adding Leavitt, our 2016 offensive line is the same as 2015. Our quarterbacks have almost no experience now, and will struggle again this year. Stoops cannot succeed at Kentucky without a real quarterback. I am waiting to see where Gran will come up with a successful SEC quarterback. I don't see that guy in the program currently, and color me skeptical about a juco quarterback whose other offers were from Arkansas State, Eastern Michigan, Lamar, Morgan State. So I expect another quarterback besides Mac Jones to join our 2017 class. Quarterback isn't the only problem. Take another look at our returning front 7, which heavily depends on transfers, jucos, Elam. We lost Johnson, Lewis, Huguenin, Forrest, Flannigan, Henderson, Johnson. Huge losses to replace. It could take Eliot and Brumbaugh most of the 2016 season to retool. It might eventually work out, but it won't get better from day 1 like you think. You say Stoops needs to win 6 to recruit at this level. But Stoops recruited the 2 best classes in modern Kentucky history in 2014 and 2016 following losing seasons. High school players buy into the dream, based on how much they like the coach and the school. Stoops connects really well with young players. As long as he can sell the vision, he can keep recruiting. He will lose credibility at some point if he can't win, but I don't see that happening in 2016. He already has the beginnings of another outstanding class for 2017, and those kids are committing after our horrible November. So your recruiting theory obviously isn't right. Your argument about needing Ws for our fan base is the same as it has always been. This is the SEC, not for the faint of heart. I attend the games, and I will continue to do that as long as the school is doing its best to build. I am convinced that they are, and I am patient when it's obviously a rebuilding situation. Under the circumstances, I see fan support holding up much better than the negative predictions I have seen here at times. Stoops must show improvement, but I think that may come in 2017 after another struggle this year.
You are correct as found through the "Scores/Schedule" link above. We defeated #25 Missouri 21-13 on 26 September--one of our better performances of the year IMO.
Last edited:
Again though, this is where people get to caught up into ranking and numbers. Ut, UGA, and MSU were all top 25 teams and we're all year.
My view of the season is not quite as dire as yours,if the coaching upgrades pay off as most believe we will see that quickly
The QB will improve ,Barker didn't show much but he has no direction to go but up,don't sell the JUCO guy short yet and gran and Hinshaw will invent a better QB than we had last year
The LB positions will be better from day 1 with the transfers and a year under the collective belts of those who logged time last year
The OL will be better with additions and player movement to their more natural positions
The secondary should be as strong or stronger than last year
The D line could be a problem but there are pieces there if they can put them together
As to the schedule SC,Mizzou,Vandy games can be won if we don't beat ourselves,Miss St in Lexington is not out of the question. The OOC games should be wins
Lastly if Stoops has learned anything he will be better and he has better help that hopefully will all be on the same page. If he is going to be taken seriously as a head coach he has to get on the bowl map this year. He has recruited well due in part to going from 2 wins to 5 wins in year 2.If he hangs on to this class in tact then he has dodged the potential setback that this year dealt him.He did lose some ground but the staff changes bought him a little more time,without one or more wins he doesn't have any more cards to play.
This thread epitomizes why Kentucky will always be in the cellar of SEC football.
We are actively on here rooting for 6-6 and a toilet bowl. Which would mean yet another 3-6 or 4-5 SEC record.
By comparison, how long would a coach last on the basketball side going 15-15 and 8-10SEC? Would we ever pull for a record like that?
I understand a new coach has to be given time to recruit and implement a system, but it's not like these expectations are new for UK football fans. I'm pretty sure if a coach could just go 6-6 or 7-5 every year they could have this job for eternity. And it all starts with the demands and expectations of our fans.
We are actively on here rooting for 6-6 and a toilet bowl. Which would mean yet another 3-6 or 4-5 SEC record.
By comparison, how long would a coach last on the basketball side going 15-15 and 8-10SEC? Would we ever pull for a record like that?
I understand a new coach has to be given time to recruit and implement a system, but it's not like these expectations are new for UK football fans. I'm pretty sure if a coach could just go 6-6 or 7-5 every year they could have this job for eternity. And it all starts with the demands and expectations of our fans.
And somehow he managed not to be organized during his first 3 seasons, yet he just flips a switch overnight and it's all instantly fixed to the point we go on the road and beat a team that has pounded us for 30 years.
It's a process, things take time, nothing happens instantly. But mentalities like that are part of what has kept this program spinning its wheels for the past 60 years. Every coach is a genius, every player is an All-American; they just need to flip that switch!
Look I am truly in your corner on most of what you're saying, but I don't think you could say let the games the last two years have been a pounding on us by Florida when we actually should have won or at least had the opportunity to win both games and the same thing can also be said for both Otis games... With that being said I do agree with the rest of your assessment about the disorganization and just being able to turn on the switch. I am NOT sold on Stoops and they will have to win 7 plus games and win a bowl game for me this year to think he is headed in the right direction
UK fans seem to struggle with expectations for the football team as much as the team struggles to win games in the SEC.
One camp says we should not be satisfied to talk about 6-6 and a bowl game.I would point out that is not about satisfaction at that level but about attaining that level and building on it. Rich Brooks had us to that level and the next step was in sight,had he been a few years younger and stayed longer the next step might have become reality. Going from 5-7 or 7-5 to 9-3 or 10-2 in the SEC is no easy task,in the ACC or Big 12 a team might pull it off but not here,UF did just about that but it was mostly smoke and mirrors as they found out.Three years of Joker ball got us back to square one,Stoops came along and in the second year got to 5 wins but then stalled at that level.He has to get over the hump or it will be back to square one in the next couple of years
A second camp is quick to point out why we can't win more than 4 or 5 games this coming season.They point out personnel issues at QB,DL and LB as well as coaching flaws that limit our chances to win what should be toss -up games. Their arguments have valid points,they go on to say that we are a year or two away and need time but the problem is that if this coaching staff doesn't win enough they won't get the time necessary and we will go back to square one
A third group seems to feel that a 6-6 record and a bowl is a necessary building block and a start in the direction we want to go. Such a record is a minimum standard for this coaching staff and a reasonable expectation that can and must be attained this year.The SEC East wasn't a powerhouse last year and won't be next year either. Stoops had a chance last year (and the year before for that matter) to get to the next level. He has that chance again this year but his time is running out(a Wildcat football coach doesn't have 9 lives, they have 3 or 4)
Lastly we can't always be a year away from being decent,at some point we have go go ahead and be a decent football team,that time is now for Stoops and company.It won't be a walk in the park but it is doable. A decent football team in the SEC is a bit better than decent everywhere else in the country but that is where we are and what we have to achieve
One camp says we should not be satisfied to talk about 6-6 and a bowl game.I would point out that is not about satisfaction at that level but about attaining that level and building on it. Rich Brooks had us to that level and the next step was in sight,had he been a few years younger and stayed longer the next step might have become reality. Going from 5-7 or 7-5 to 9-3 or 10-2 in the SEC is no easy task,in the ACC or Big 12 a team might pull it off but not here,UF did just about that but it was mostly smoke and mirrors as they found out.Three years of Joker ball got us back to square one,Stoops came along and in the second year got to 5 wins but then stalled at that level.He has to get over the hump or it will be back to square one in the next couple of years
A second camp is quick to point out why we can't win more than 4 or 5 games this coming season.They point out personnel issues at QB,DL and LB as well as coaching flaws that limit our chances to win what should be toss -up games. Their arguments have valid points,they go on to say that we are a year or two away and need time but the problem is that if this coaching staff doesn't win enough they won't get the time necessary and we will go back to square one
A third group seems to feel that a 6-6 record and a bowl is a necessary building block and a start in the direction we want to go. Such a record is a minimum standard for this coaching staff and a reasonable expectation that can and must be attained this year.The SEC East wasn't a powerhouse last year and won't be next year either. Stoops had a chance last year (and the year before for that matter) to get to the next level. He has that chance again this year but his time is running out(a Wildcat football coach doesn't have 9 lives, they have 3 or 4)
Lastly we can't always be a year away from being decent,at some point we have go go ahead and be a decent football team,that time is now for Stoops and company.It won't be a walk in the park but it is doable. A decent football team in the SEC is a bit better than decent everywhere else in the country but that is where we are and what we have to achieve
Last edited:
How many NC have we won in FB? How many in BB? How good is the SEC in FB? How about BB? That's like comparing a feather to a bowling ball. Another clueless poster comparing the history of the greatest NCAA BB program of all time vs the FB team in the toughest FB conference in the country. I don't think that SEC record is possible...
Wins are very important, but this being Stoops 4th year, I think progress in our play and being competitive in all the games is more important. We do need to go to a bowl.
Next year, 2017, I think Stoops needs to win 7 or 8 games to keep the fans energized. Five wins would probably get him replaced and 6 wins would not be much better.
When fans quit coming, whoever is coach is gone.
OLD STOLL FIELD GUY!
Next year, 2017, I think Stoops needs to win 7 or 8 games to keep the fans energized. Five wins would probably get him replaced and 6 wins would not be much better.
When fans quit coming, whoever is coach is gone.
OLD STOLL FIELD GUY!
6 wins are an absolute minimum.
7 wins should be within reach because all of our winnable games are at home plus UofL there is definitely a game we can win.
Coach Stoops and his staff need to get the most out of his roster this season. He needs to give the fan base a lift after letting us down the past 2 seasons with the end of year collapses.
UK is one of the very few programs that considers a 3-5 conference record and 3-1 non-conference record a successful season.
7 wins should be within reach because all of our winnable games are at home plus UofL there is definitely a game we can win.
Coach Stoops and his staff need to get the most out of his roster this season. He needs to give the fan base a lift after letting us down the past 2 seasons with the end of year collapses.
UK is one of the very few programs that considers a 3-5 conference record and 3-1 non-conference record a successful season.
With so many bowls around and 5 and 7 teams going to them, maybe Stoops can make a bowl with the three cupcake wins and Vandy USCjr wins at home. That would give fans something to satisfy them and set the table for a huge 2017 season.
I would be pleased with 6 wins. I would also be okay with 5-7 IF we have a chance to win every game in the 4th quarter. Wins are of course most important, but we need to be competitive in all of our games. No blow 21+ blow outs (except maybe Bama... but they are Bama).
Stoops' tenure is over at UK if he doesn't get to 6 or more wins this coming season.
He has himself to blame.
He had 6 wins gift-wrapped last season and his ineptitude cost us as a football program.
He has himself to blame.
He had 6 wins gift-wrapped last season and his ineptitude cost us as a football program.
Your predictions are total pie in the sky thinking with no basis in reality.
First, there is NO PROOF that Barker is any better than Towles. NONE. So your statement on QB is asinine.
Next, your comment about linebackers is a joke. We lose our two top linebackers and you say we're automatically better now? What a joke.
Your other points about the O-Line being better is true(how could they be worse?) and the D-Line being better is a "probably better". Elam will continue to be better and our very young DEs are at least older with more experience.
Please stop claiming we are automatically better at positions like QB and linebacker when you don't have a clue that is even close to being true.
Must agree, have to be competitive in the losses, last year was an epic fail at times, this coming schedule is going to be killer compared to the past season, 6 wins with that schedule would be great.
FWIW, I was OK with Stoops year 2. I was frustrated with the second half of last year and the lack of offense. I hope that the changes in the offensive coaches will make a big difference. And if the defense does not have to stay on the field as much as it did last year, we will see how good it is.
I think we have the players and coaches to have a good offense. 6 - 6 is not a good season. 7 - 5 is a winning season. I want to win. Winning will put us in better bowl games and attract better players. Let's start winning this season. Go Cats!!
I think we have the players and coaches to have a good offense. 6 - 6 is not a good season. 7 - 5 is a winning season. I want to win. Winning will put us in better bowl games and attract better players. Let's start winning this season. Go Cats!!