Howard Schnellenberger, Mike Leach

[OHIO COLONEL]

I have always heard from those days (I'm 65)that Howard took the job on a handshake with Hagan ,but when Hagan told him that everything he did had to be approved by him and HS talked away..biggest mistake by two idiot bb ads and UK has paid for it for 40 yrs..CM really thought he had down something hiring Curry...this is hilarious when the fans at Ala were dancing in the streets when if CM had tried he could'be probably get Ala to pay his salary the first couple years[banana][banana]:joy::joy::joy::joy::smiley::smiley::sunglasses:

I lived in Georgia at the time that Curry coached GT and UA. In-laws were from Ft. Payne and the whole family was huge UA fans. Plus did a lot of business in Alabama and knew all kinds of UA fans. The feelings toward Curry at UA wasn't so much he was a bad coach, etc. , but that he wasn't one of Bear's boys. He was never accepted by a vocal segment of their fanbase from day 1 because of it. I think a vocal minority, but loud nevertheless. A lot of Bear's old players kept stirring the pot which continued to brew (one in particular I believe was Lee Roy Jordan...could be wrong tho. Most UA fans, and I knew a ton, thought he was a good coach and his record at GT and UA bore it out. When he resigned to come to UK, the UA fanbase was in total disbelief, perhaps not so much that he was leaving (threats against his family, vandalism at his home, etc) BUT that he was leaving UA for UK. Of course the rest is history. As some say...UK football is a burial ground for college coaches (not me, but others).

 

[Levibooty]

The SEC would eat Mike Leach's lunch and steal his girlfriend.

 

[NoDef]

The SEC would eat Mike Leach's lunch and steal his girlfriend.

Yep. Let's line it up and try to run off tackle against the big boys of the SEC. The guy has won everywhere he has been and moved the ball. Had a winning record against A&M,Missouri, and SEC opponents during his time at TT. I would rather go with a guy that has won everywhere he has been instead of bringing in guys trying to learn on the job.

 

[The_Godfather_rivals]

It's absolute revisionist history to fault Cliff Hagan for choosing Jerry Claiborne over Howard in 1981.

First, there isn't any proof that Howard would have definitely accepted the position. Secondly, take a look at Claiborne and Howard's resumes up to that point. If you see something that implies that Claiborne had performed at an inferior level than you are simply unwilling to have an open mind.

If anything, UK had the luxury of looking at 2 alums with ties to Bear Bryant who had excellent experience as both assistant and head coaches at the division 1 level. So, if you are doing the hiring, what are you looking at as a tiebreaker? There is no doubt that Claiborne would have crawled to Lexington from Maryland in order to take the position. Do you think Howard gave off that vibe?

It's easy to dismiss Claiborne in hindsight. However, who the hell knows what would have happened had UK chosen Howard and he proceeded to maintain UK at a mid-level SEC program incapable of getting to the top of the heap. We no doubt would have seen decades of criticism for missing our chance at landing Claiborne who would have likely continued to win big at Maryland and beyond.

 

[The_Godfather_rivals]

It's absolute revisionist history to fault Cliff Hagan for choosing Jerry Claiborne over Howard in 1981.

First, there isn't any proof that Howard would have definitely accepted the position. Secondly, take a look at Claiborne and Howard's resumes up to that point. If you see something that implies that Claiborne had performed at an inferior level than you are simply unwilling to have an open mind.

If anything, UK had the luxury of looking at 2 alums with ties to Bear Bryant who had excellent experience as both assistant and head coaches at the division 1 level. So, if you are doing the hiring, what are you looking at as a tiebreaker? There is no doubt that Claiborne would have crawled to Lexington from Maryland in order to take the position. Do you think Howard gave off that vibe?

It's easy to dismiss Claiborne in hindsight. However, who the hell knows what would have happened had UK chosen Howard and he proceeded to maintain UK at a mid-level SEC program incapable of getting to the top of the heap. We no doubt would have seen decades of criticism for missing our chance at landing Claiborne who would have likely continued to win big at Maryland and beyond.

 

[rmattox]

It was said at the time KIDD was to conserative on offense. Curry like Stoops was force to bring in a OC with pass first offense in Bowden who like Brown soon left for greener pasturess and Curry went back to his conserative coaching of course it appears Stoops has required his AIR RAID OC'S to be Conserative

Kidd was primarily run oriented but he was not conservative. I was there in the late 70's and early 80's when he was winning. He did lots of fun stuff when his team had the ball.

 

[sluggercatfan]

The SEC would eat Mike Leach's lunch and steal his girlfriend.

And they haven't for 50 years.?..I am much more than willing to give him a shot based on his record

 

[Shavers48]

Mike Leach was in his first year at WSU when Stoops was hired, not sure he was gonna leave that soon after starting there.

but writing on the joker wall was plain as day when Leach WAS available and could have been had way below his market value due to bogus claims by the James kid. Barnhart asleep at the wheel again.

 

[Shavers48]

Mike Leach was 12-25 after 3 seasons in Pullman. The same people who wanted to hire him here would have been screaming for his head....

but went to a bowl during those 3 yrs which is auto sainthood to many on this board.

 

[SanAntonioCat_rivals376502]

N

Not buying it with Curry...you bring in the #1qb in the country and an option OC and let him put Couch in that position...TOTALLY stupid

Bill Curry was arrogant, despicable and generally disliked by many at UK. Why UK jumped at hiring a coach who was clearly disliked across the SEC is beyond explanation.

 

[TopCatCal]

It wasn't CM Newton who rejected Howard. That was Cliff Hagan who was perhaps the most arrogant, reviled AD outside of Larry Ivy. Cliff couldn't stand an ego bigger than his. He was not about to allow Howard upstage his lowly agenda that was protect basketball.

Howard went to UofL and the rest is history.

In 1989 when Jerry Claiborne retired, the A.D. at UK was C.M. Newton not Cliff Hagan. So it was Newton who didn't want Schnellenberger!

 

[SanAntonioCat_rivals376502]

I lived in Georgia at the time that Curry coached GT and UA. In-laws were from Ft. Payne and the whole family was huge UA fans. Plus did a lot of business in Alabama and knew all kinds of UA fans. The feelings toward Curry at UA wasn't so much he was a bad coach, etc. , but that he wasn't one of Bear's boys. He was never accepted by a vocal segment of their fanbase from day 1 because of it. I think a vocal minority, but loud nevertheless. A lot of Bear's old players kept stirring the pot which continued to brew (one in particular I believe was Lee Roy Jordan...could be wrong tho. Most UA fans, and I knew a ton, thought he was a good coach and his record at GT and UA bore it out. When he resigned to come to UK, the UA fanbase was in total disbelief, perhaps not so much that he was leaving (threats against his family, vandalism at his home, etc) BUT that he was leaving UA for UK. Of course the rest is history. As some say...UK football is a burial ground for college coaches (not me, but others).

The only true statement you made was Bill Curry was a one time coach at Georgis Tech and later at Alabama.

 

[SanAntonioCat_rivals376502]

When Jerry Claiborne retired from UK. The one coach at the the time that UK could have & should have hired was Schnellenberger. Instead C.M. Newton wouldn't even let the thought of hiring the one coach (Schnellenberger) that could have taken UK to the next level even enter his mind. Instead he hired that Alabama reject Bill Curry. I always thought it was so sad that Schnellenberger never coached here. Now it's the same situation with Mike Leach, who might be the brightest offensive mind in the game. I'm of the belief that under no circumstances will Mitch Barnhart consider hiring Leach when the UK job comes open. Why the A.D's at UK would never want coaches like Schnellenberger & Leach is the reason our football program has been the SEC's doormat for as long as I can remember.

It was Cliff Hagen who ultimately rejected Howard over ego issues. And, yes Howard would have made UK a winner. Instead, he made UofL a winner. We continued to reside as the SEC's prominent bottom feeder.

 

[sluggercatfan]

In 1989 when Jerry Claiborne retired, the A.D. at UK was C.M. Newton not Cliff Hagan. So it was Newton who didn't want Schnellenberger!

They both are guilty

 

[SanAntonioCat_rivals376502]

When Jerry Claiborne retired from UK. The one coach at the the time that UK could have & should have hired was Schnellenberger. Instead C.M. Newton wouldn't even let the thought of hiring the one coach (Schnellenberger) that could have taken UK to the next level even enter his mind. Instead he hired that Alabama reject Bill Curry. I always thought it was so sad that Schnellenberger never coached here. Now it's the same situation with Mike Leach, who might be the brightest offensive mind in the game. I'm of the belief that under no circumstances will Mitch Barnhart consider hiring Leach when the UK job comes open. Why the A.D's at UK would never want coaches like Schnellenberger & Leach is the reason our football program has been the SEC's doormat for as long as I can remember.

It was Cliff Hagen who ultimately rejected Howar over ego issues. And, yes Howard would have made UK a winner. Instead, he made UofL a winner. We continued to reside as the SEC's prominent bottom feeder.

They both are guilty

CM was brought back to UK to rescue the basketball program from the debilitating probation of "Kentucky's Shame" era. He went on to hire Rick Pitino and later Hal Mumme. CM was in the midst of great career achievement I the 80s. It was Cliff Hagen who rejected Howard. Mr Hagen was replaced as AD by CM Newton.

 

[OHIO COLONEL]

The only true statement you made was Bill Curry was a one time coach at Georgis Tech and later at Alabama.

Did you live in Georgia at the time? Was your entire family of in-laws UA fans with many being boosters and season ticket holders? Did you travel the state of Alabama talking sports with customers? I don't think so. So perhaps all the people I spoke with at the time, the articles I read in various sports pages were the only ones with this opinion and you know better.

 

[OHIO COLONEL]

ATLANTA — Threats against his wife. A rock crashing through his office window. An administration that he thinks pulled the chair out from under him. The climate became so toxic during Bill Curry’s cup of coffee (with two refills) as football coach at the University of Alabama that three players once appeared uninvited at the site of his weekly radio call-in show and offered to spare Curry from irate Crimson Tide fans by fielding the questions themselves.

He thanked them, then sent them home. “They shouldn’t have to be thinking like that,” he said.

Curry, 68, resigned in 1989 after three seasons, taking an aggregate 26-10 record, a Southeastern Conference coach of the year award and a league championship ring to a more appreciative setting.

“What led me to leave was realizing that I had become a deterrent to my guys enjoying the college experience,” he said.


Instead of being an arrogant know-it-all, why don't you get some facts when you post. If you want to read the entire article, it's from the New York Times, November 17, 2010 written by Mike Tierney when Curry was taking his Georgia State team back to UA to play. Look it up. Plus there's more if you care to find them.

Don't let your hatred of a person (Curry) cloud your judgement. I never said that Curry was great or good at Kentucky. But, again, if you look at his record at GT and UA it was good, not great, but good.

And one other thing. At the time I ran a rather large company in Atlanta. So therefore I knew a number of people around town and was involved once in awhile with functions, charity events, etc. I met Curry several times and I liked him. Much like his personna on TV...a no no nonsense guy, but he was very nice.

 

[theoledog]

Not a bad rant, I wanted Leach also, listened to a long interview with him at the time and sounded like he really wanted to come here, but I was impressed with him in that interview, seemed very sharp and down to earth to me. He has a law degree, so I think he is pretty smart, saw him on the sidelines when they upset UCLA late Saturday night, and they said the little piece of paper with a few notes was his game plan, most of it was in his head.

Agree that the University has done its best with non support and their scaredy cat approach to the NCAA to not give UK football a chance. Schnellenberger wanted control of the football program and UK wouldn't give it to him.

Bill Curry had a great record at both GT and Bama, steady improvement in both programs while he was there, and the only reason the Bama fans ran him off after a ONE LOSS regular season was because the one loss was to Auburn, who had a great (cheating?) program at the time.

An amazing FACT, both those programs won a NATIONAL CHAMPIONSHIP with senior leaders from his recruiting three classes after he left.

UK wouldn't let him hire the assistants he wanted and generally handicapped him. Good man, but hard to say how good a coach he was, great at other programs but a great failure here------Sound familiar?

YES, sounds all too familiar.... that is why guys as old as i am would just as soon see someone other than the coaches take the fall...
if MS doesn't get it done here and put us in a position to win 6-7-8 games then you might as well get shovels ready... Football and all the sports it supports are dead....

 

[TopCatCal]

It was Cliff Hagen who ultimately rejected Howard over ego issues. And, yes Howard would have made UK a winner. Instead, he made UofL a winner. We continued to reside as the SEC's prominent bottom feeder.

A picture is worth a thousand words. When Claiborne left UK after the 1989 season. Cliff Hagan was gone from UK. He got flushed out of here along with Eddie Sutton, As a matter of fact Hagan offered Schnellenberger the job. After Fran Curci got fired. But Howard turned it down, because he felt like he had a championship team returning at Miami.

 

[Littlefeller_rivals66952]

yep After Curci was fired, he was probably the best coach in Kentucky for the next 20 years

If I remember correctly we of course were on probation from Curci's tenure. Kidd had some player incidents about that time and the feeling was not to hire him becasue "we" needed a clean program.

 

[Dore95]

I don't recall Howard being a candidate that was discussed in 1989. He was the head coach at U of L. There would have been a lot of people against hiring the U of L coach (even if he was a UK alum). Plus, it is no sure thing that Howard would have left U of L for UK at that time. Finally, I think most UK fans at that time (1989) would have been in favor of hiring Curry (stealing him away from Alabama) over Howard (stealing him away from U of L). In other words, it is revisionist history to say that Howard would have been an obvious choice for the UK position in 1989. Now, 1981 is a different story, but I agree with those who say that Claiborne was as well regarded as Howard at that time.

 

[OHIO COLONEL]

Looked Howard up and you're right about the dates. Thing in reading his bio that I had completely forgotten about, is that he was Oklahoma's coach for only one year and resigned...bit of turmoil. Had totally forgotten that.

I don't recall Howard being a candidate that was discussed in 1989. He was the head coach at U of L. There would have been a lot of people against hiring the U of L coach (even if he was a UK alum). Plus, it is no sure thing that Howard would have left U of L for UK at that time. Finally, I think most UK fans at that time (1989) would have been in favor of hiring Curry (stealing him away from Alabama) over Howard (stealing him away from U of L). In other words, it is revisionist history to say that Howard would have been an obvious choice for the UK position in 1989. Now, 1981 is a different story, but I agree with those who say that Claiborne was as well regarded as Howard at that time.

 

[sluggercatfan]

A picture is worth a thousand words. When Claiborne left UK after the 1989 season. Cliff Hagan was gone from UK. He got flushed out of here along with Eddie Sutton, As a matter of fact Hagan offered Schnellenberger the job. After Fran Curci got fired. But Howard turned it down, because he felt like he had a championship team returning at Miami.

HS on a handshake with HAGAN agreed to take the job when he was ad, but when the negotiations began and HS wanted total control of the fb program and Hagan said no that everything in the program had to go thru him Howard walked away and the rest is history...

 

[OHIO COLONEL]

From an interview w/Mark Story in August of 2014. No detail on AD's etc.

'At least twice, Schnellenberger says he came "reasonably close" to testing that belief by becoming UK's head coach. In 1981, after Fran Curci was fired, Schnellenberger talked to Kentucky but chose to stay at Miami. UK ultimately hired Jerry Claiborne.

After Schnellenberger made an ill-fated decision to leave Louisville after the 1994 season for what became an unhappy one-year stint as Oklahoma head coach, he again talked with Kentucky in 1996 after Bill Curry was fired. UK instead chose Hal Mumme'.

 

[SanAntonioCat_rivals376502]

HS on a handshake with HAGAN agreed to take the job when he was ad, but when the negotiations began and HS wanted total control of the fb program and Hagan said no that everything in the program had to go thru him Howard walked away and the rest is history...

This is true. Two gigantic egos collided.

 

[rmattox]

If I remember correctly we of course were on probation from Curci's tenure. Kidd had some player incidents about that time and the feeling was not to hire him becasue "we" needed a clean program.

Like I said, I was at EKU at that time. Kidd had great teams. I don't recall even a hint of trouble. Used to play "Risk" with one of the assistants when I was in Grad school....like I said, never a hint of any kind of problem.

 

[Deeeefense]

HS should have been hired instead of Claiborne.

As much as I admired Coach Claiborne that's probably correct, I believe Howie was off the market when Jerry left.