Hypothetical: Legend Coaches Today

[Running_Clock]

With everything going on at Providence, it got me thinking: if you dropped one of the legendary Illinois coaches into today’s game, would they still have the same success, or has the game changed too much?

Offenses have evolved, the game seems faster, and now you have NIL, social media, recruiting, etc.

But the basic principles haven’t changed: strong defense, tackle, play through the whistle, control the line of scrimmage, manage the clock, run the ball, protect the football and win on special teams.

I saw Coach Seff recently, and he looks like he could still do it.

I’m thinking of guys like Matt Senffner, Dan Sharp, Gary Korhonen, Frank Lenti, Ken Leonard, Rich Zinanni and Dan Darlington. Drop those guys into a program today—could they still be dominant?

 

[4Afan]

With everything going on at Providence, it got me thinking: if you dropped one of the legendary Illinois coaches into today’s game, would they still have the same success, or has the game changed too much?

Offenses have evolved, the game seems faster, and now you have NIL, social media, recruiting, etc.

But the basic principles haven’t changed: strong defense, tackle, play through the whistle, control the line of scrimmage, manage the clock, run the ball, protect the football and win on special teams.

I saw Coach Seff recently, and he looks like he could still do it.

I’m thinking of guys like Matt Senffner, Dan Sharp, Gary Korhonen, Frank Lenti, Ken Leonard, Rich Zinanni and Dan Darlington. Drop those guys into a program today—could they still be dominant?

In short, no.

Do they still have the knowledge of X's and O's to win games? For the most part, but some of these guys don't know what a forward pass is so the game has passed them by. it's also all the other stuff you mentioned because most of these guys coached HARD and as we're quickly learning players and some assistant coaches don't like being coached hard.

 

[SiuCubFan8]

They wouldn't suck but I do not know enough about them to know if they would hand over O to a more "new school" coach or be dead set in their past ways.

 

[Louie1999]

I think they absolutely could. Coach Andriano at Montini was able to adapt and get offensive coordinators that ran modern spread principles while maintaining the same intensity. Even Bukovsky who now coaches Montini has been there coaching for over 35 years and has obviously had to adapt his approach even though he is a very old school type of coach. Same can be said with Ken Leonard at SHG and Racki who has been coaching for a long time and adapted over time.

I’m sure there are many others but these are some guys that have been in the game for a long time and seen it change dramatically. I don’t see why some of these other legends couldn’t adapt bc head coaching isn’t always about the Xs and Os but general management skills and hiring good people

 

[SiuCubFan8]

I think they absolutely could. Coach Andriano at Montini was able to adapt and get offensive coordinators that ran modern spread principles while maintaining the same intensity. Even Bukovsky who now coaches Montini has been there coaching for over 35 years and has obviously had to adapt his approach even though he is a very old school type of coach. Same can be said with Ken Leonard at SHG and Racki who has been coaching for a long time and adapted over time. I don’t see why some of these other legends couldn’t adapt bc head coaching isn’t always about the Xs and Os but general management skills and hiring good people

Agree, some would absolutely adapt but some would be stuck in their ways. All depends on specific coach, IMO.

 

[Colin2299]

Good coaches know what their weaknesses are and adapt. Nick Saban changed his ways and brought in someone to run the spread which wasn’t his thing.

My gut says these coaches would be fine as long as they aren’t closed minded.

Great example with Coach A at Montini. What a great coach.

 

[JCHillmen10]

Good coaches know what their weaknesses are and adapt. Nick Saban changed his ways and brought in someone to run the spread which wasn’t his thing.

My gut says these coaches would be fine as long as they aren’t closed minded.

Great example with Coach A at Montini. What a great coach.

I don't think the issue would be adapting to X's and O's as most could probably find a way to do that.

The issue would be the power dynamic being in the hands of the players and families with there basically being no restrictions on transferring.

Saban adapted to the X's and O's that allowed him to extend his run 5-10 more years. But then he got out when the issue became a revolving door roster and having to always be recruiting to keep your own roster/coddling your own guys to stay in the program. High school is quickly getting to that point now too.

 

[4Anorth(not4aFan)]

I think the biggest challenge for them would be the kids today and their parents. It's totally different today from my days 1975-1978 and even when my son played 2002-2005. I mean look at how parenting has changed over the last 25 years or so.
My daughter coaches jr high sports and these days the parents have access to contact her. She has got calls and text at all hours from parents for various reasons,most complaints about playing time. I finally told her she needed a set time for no contact from them. I can't ever imagine those past legend coaches dealing with those things.
As far as the x's and o's I believe they would be just fine.

 

[Louie1999]

I think the biggest challenge for them would be the kids today and their parents. It's totally different today from my days 1975-1978 and even when my son played 2002-2005. I mean look at how parenting has changed over the last 25 years or so.
My daughter coaches jr high sports and these days the parents have access to contact her. She has got calls and text at all hours from parents for various reasons,most complaints about playing time. I finally told her she needed a set time for no contact from them. I can't ever imagine those past legend coaches dealing with those things.
As far as the x's and o's I believe they would be just fine.

I agree it’s definitely getting more difficult but not impossible. Guys like Kirby Smart and Cignetti are definitely not allowing players to get away with the kind of things other coaches let them get away with. It’s all about setting the culture of the program. I had a nephew who played at Montini under coach Bukovsky and another under Racki at Naz within the last 10 years and I guarantee they aren’t letting players or parents get away with any of this nonsense. What ends up happening though is some guys transfer out of the program after realizing the standards that are expected of them so they may struggle to retain some talent that choose easier paths but often times those aren’t the guys starting anyways.

 

[SiuCubFan8]

I agree it’s definitely getting more difficult but not impossible. Guys like Kirby Smart and Cignetti are definitely not allowing players to get away with the kind of things other coaches let them get away with. It’s all about setting the culture of the program. I had a nephew who played at Montini under coach Bukovsky and another under Racki at Naz within the last 10 years and I guarantee they aren’t letting players or parents get away with any of this nonsense. What ends up happening though is some guys transfer out of the program after realizing the standards that are expected of them so they may struggle to retain some talent that choose easier paths but often times those aren’t the guys starting anyways.

This day in age that stance is harder and harder if you are not winning and winning all the time. And even then, as you mentioned, kids/parents will be unhappy and transfer.

 

[Louie1999]

This day and age that stance is harder and harder if you are not winning and winning all the time. And even then, as you mentioned, kids/parents will be unhappy and transfer.

Oh absolutely. I coached youth football in the past and I don’t want any part of it today but I am thankful for the coaches that still try their best to do it right and teach the kids real values and what football is all about.

 

[Cross Bones]

No.

 

[Colin2299]

I don't think the issue would be adapting to X's and O's as most could probably find a way to do that.

The issue would be the power dynamic being in the hands of the players and families with there basically being no restrictions on transferring.

Saban adapted to the X's and O's that allowed him to extend his run 5-10 more years. But then he got out when the issue became a revolving door roster and having to always be recruiting to keep your own roster/coddling your own guys to stay in the program. High school is quickly getting to that point now too.

I just don’t think this is the case. I realize it gets mentioned here a bunch but I don’t think it’s accurate.

I don’t think the kids have the power dynamic. I think that’s a lie we blindly believe.

Secure coaches who know what they’re doing don’t allow it. Other coaches let the best players do whatever they want and you get chaos.

Doesn’t happen at Rochester, Byron, Mt Carmel and numerous other programs.

 

[Colin2299]

This day in age that stance is harder and harder if you are not winning and winning all the time. And even then, as you mentioned, kids/parents will be unhappy and transfer.

But the opposite is true as well. If you are winning all the time, transfers can now show up at your door.

 

[SiuCubFan8]

But the opposite is true as well. If you are winning all the time, transfers can now show up at your door.

This is also true, good point.

 

[Running_Clock]

I agree it’s definitely getting more difficult but not impossible. Guys like Kirby Smart and Cignetti are definitely not allowing players to get away with the kind of things other coaches let them get away with. It’s all about setting the culture of the program. I had a nephew who played at Montini under coach Bukovsky and another under Racki at Naz within the last 10 years and I guarantee they aren’t letting players or parents get away with any of this nonsense. What ends up happening though is some guys transfer out of the program after realizing the standards that are expected of them so they may struggle to retain some talent that choose easier paths but often times those aren’t the guys starting anyways.

And the ones that transfer out are the teammates that aren't buying into the tradition and culture of the program and understanding the expectations. A locker room killer, which you don't want on your team anyway.

 

[Carmine Evergreen]

No way. It's not about adapting to today's Xs and Os it's all about the difference in kids, parents, administrators, school boards compared to when they last coached.

Korhonen last coached two decades ago and passed away in 2017 RIP.

Leonard could probably still do it because he hasn't been out that long.

 

[Cross Bones]

They'd be running endless laps for refusing to wear pads over their knees.

 

[JCHillmen10]

I just don’t think this is the case. I realize it gets mentioned here a bunch but I don’t think it’s accurate.

I don’t think the kids have the power dynamic. I think that’s a lie we blindly believe.

Secure coaches who know what they’re doing don’t allow it. Other coaches let the best players do whatever they want and you get chaos.

Doesn’t happen at Rochester, Byron, Mt Carmel and numerous other programs.

Of course Rochester, Byron, and MC don't struggle in losing kids. Right now. String together 2-3 straight four loss seasons though and they're asking for their kids to please not consider going to SHG, Rice, etc because they won a state championship more recently or their friend from 7v7 now goes there.

There is no truly special culture. Going 14-0 is the special culture, but it isn't a guarantee that you will always be at the top of the heap never having to convince people to stay at your school.

 

[Running_Clock]

No way. It's not about adapting to today's Xs and Os it's all about the difference in kids, parents, administrators, school boards compared to when they last coached.

Korhonen last coached two decades ago and passed away in 2017 RIP.

Leonard could probably still do it because he hasn't been out that long.

I’m well aware Korhonen is no longer with us (RIP). I was simply using a legendary, old-school coach like him as an example and wondering how coaches from that era would “deal” with today’s high school football landscape.

Saban, mentioned earlier, is a great example of what I’m getting at.

 

[RetiredReferee]

I agree it’s definitely getting more difficult but not impossible. Guys like Kirby Smart and Cignetti are definitely not allowing players to get away with the kind of things other coaches let them get away with. It’s all about setting the culture of the program. I had a nephew who played at Montini under coach Bukovsky and another under Racki at Naz within the last 10 years and I guarantee they aren’t letting players or parents get away with any of this nonsense. What ends up happening though is some guys transfer out of the program after realizing the standards that are expected of them so they may struggle to retain some talent that choose easier paths but often times those aren’t the guys starting anyways.

Sure about that?

 

[Louie1999]

Sure about that?

Yeah pretty sure. Kirby coaches players hard even though he gets lots of pushback. He talks about it in a lot of his interviews and I see no reason to believe it’s not true. Georgia players get into some trouble with off field issues but on the field he demands the most of his players much like Saban and nothing is handed to any player.

 

[JCHillmen10]

Yeah pretty sure. Kirby coaches players hard even though he gets lots of pushback. He talks about it in a lot of his interviews and I see no reason to believe it’s not true. Georgia players get into some trouble with off field issues but on the field he demands the most of his players much like Saban and nothing is handed to any player.

I would not hold up Kirby Smart as an example of holding anyone to a standard.

Their off field issues rival Urban Meyer's time at Florida.

Sure, he holds players to a high standard. You can do that when you have Five stars studding your roster and new transfers looking to come in every year.

The coaches at Bama, OSU, LSU, Michigan, USC, Georgia, ND, and other blue bloods don't intrinsically hold players to a higher standard for their on field play. Their players are just more easily replaceable because of the recruitability of those programs and how much talent is on their roster.

The coaches at Maryland and Vanderbilt don't have lower standards. They're just Maryland and Vanderbilt.

Indiana is the one example that has bucked that trend and that is solely because of big checks being written by donors and a competent football coach.

 

[Wassup13_rivals219252]

With everything going on at Providence, it got me thinking: if you dropped one of the legendary Illinois coaches into today’s game, would they still have the same success, or has the game changed too much?

Offenses have evolved, the game seems faster, and now you have NIL, social media, recruiting, etc.

But the basic principles haven’t changed: strong defense, tackle, play through the whistle, control the line of scrimmage, manage the clock, run the ball, protect the football and win on special teams.

I saw Coach Seff recently, and he looks like he could still do it.

I’m thinking of guys like Matt Senffner, Dan Sharp, Gary Korhonen, Frank Lenti, Ken Leonard, Rich Zinanni and Dan Darlington. Drop those guys into a program today—could they still be dominant?

Add Tim Racki and Derek Leonard to the group.

And Gordie Gillespie.

 

[Louie1999]

I would not hold up Kirby Smart as an example of holding anyone to a standard.

Their off field issues rival Urban Meyer's time at Florida.

Sure, he holds players to a high standard. You can do that when you have Five stars studding your roster and new transfers looking to come in every year.

The coaches at Bama, OSU, LSU, Michigan, USC, Georgia, ND, and other blue bloods don't intrinsically hold players to a higher standard for their on field play. Their players are just more easily replaceable because of the recruitability of those programs and how much talent is on their roster.

The coaches at Maryland and Vanderbilt don't have lower standards. They're just Maryland and Vanderbilt.

Indiana is the one example that has bucked that trend and that is solely because of big checks being written by donors and a competent football coach.

I disagree. In fact I think having all of those 5 stars makes it much harder to keep everyone in line. Clark Lea at Vanderbilt is a great coach and also has an old school approach but he doesn’t have the stars that are often uncoachable. In fact he brings in guys with a chip on their shoulder that have been overlooked. Coaching at Georgia or at blue blood with endless talent is a different challenge and Kirby runs a tight ship and nfl scouts know that players coming out of Georgia are prepared. Anyways it’s not the point and you could replace Kirby with any other coach that you think upholds standards.

 

[FootballDad1979]

Yes, those successful coaches would still be successful today. They built programs around a winning culture and knew how to hold athletes, parents, and administrators accountable. They established a foundation for everyone and never wavered from their expectations.

They worried about the program as a whole. Let’s be honest: players focused on NIL or transferring in and out were probably not the players they wanted. They recognized potential character issues with those players and their families.

I’ll throw out a name who is still coaching today and has been successful at a high level through the ’80s, ’90s, 2000s, 2010s, and 2020s: Mike Noll. Mike is still winning today and has not veered from his “boring” offense or his commitment to fundamentals.

 

[Colin2299]

Of course Rochester, Byron, and MC don't struggle in losing kids. Right now. String together 2-3 straight four loss seasons though and they're asking for their kids to please not consider going to SHG, Rice, etc because they won a state championship more recently or their friend from 7v7 now goes there.

There is no truly special culture. Going 14-0 is the special culture, but it isn't a guarantee that you will always be at the top of the heap never having to convince people to stay at your school.

All do respect - that’s bull.

 

[Carmine Evergreen]

And Gordie Gillespie.

And Bob Shannon

 

[JCHillmen10]

There’s obviously programs with good cultures. But there’s plenty of them. MC and Naz may be among the best . But none of them are special enough to have a couple underperforming seasons and not have it negatively impact them in the new environment.

Sure MC and Naz have special cultures. But none of them are so special that two straight 7-4 seasons don’t make it hard to retain some lf your own in house players.

culture is still a thing, sure, but in this new era of 7v7, nil, social media, and most importantly no actual transfer rules being enforced, the key to the game is talent acquisition. Sure culture helps, so does schematic coaching, but all of it pales in comparison to getting the right kids in the door now that they can transfer seemingly at will.

 

[SiuCubFan8]

There’s obviously programs with good cultures. But there’s plenty of them. MC and Naz may be among the best . But none of them are special enough to have a couple underperforming seasons and not have it negatively impact them in the new environment.

Sure MC and Naz have special cultures. But none of them are so special that two straight 7-4 seasons don’t make it hard to retain some lf your own in house players.

culture is still a thing, sure, but in this new era of 7v7, nil, social media, and most importantly no actual transfer rules being enforced, the key to the game is talent acquisition. Sure culture helps, so does schematic coaching, but all of it pales in comparison to getting the right kids in the door now that they can transfer seemingly at will.

JCA has about the best culture history in IHSA and they are not immune to some average season by their standards.

 

[JCHillmen10]

JCA has about the best culture history in IHSA and they are not immune to some average season by their standards.

Yep a down season now can be more damaging than before in getting outflows from your own roster. But a random team with any type of culture can also turn things around quicker than ever with the right connections because all it takes is one head coach to find the right three guys to really inject some talent into a downtrodden programs. It’s the connections and the publicity that matter most.

it’s a weird world we’re in . That’s all.

 

[KingMJ]

I think any of the top coaches could have adapted to modern football, but the challenge would have been dealing with the high parent involvement culture. I think private coaches of the past would be a bit better at this because parents have always been more involved at private schools.