I HATE this team

[Baz = Heisman]

They have some real individual talent and play like a bunch of bums as a team.

1) Page is so ******* lazy on defense. Plays at half speed. Doesn’t move his feet.
2) Did Angelo not work on his shooting at all in the summer? He’s a bricklayer.
3) Why isn’t KJ playing? It’s absurd Mullins plays over him.
4) Martinelli going out like this is disgraceful. He’s out there giving it his all.
5) Why don’t we play faster? We can’t shoot from 3 or rebound for ****. It couldn’t hurt.

I’d be shocked if we win 4-5 B1G games. Collins better be on the hot seat next year. He blew the portal. Chose raw talent over fit. This is on him.

Carmody’s teams never had the talent for the most part so weren’t nearly as frustrating as this nonsense.

 

[Purple Pile Driver]

They have some real individual talent and play like a bunch of bums as a team.

1) Page is so ******* lazy on defense. Plays at half speed. Doesn’t move his feet.
2) Did Angelo not work on his shooting at all in the summer? He’s a bricklayer.
3) Why isn’t KJ playing? It’s absurd Mullins plays over him.
4) Martinelli going out like this is disgraceful. He’s out there giving it his all.
5) Why don’t we play faster? We can’t shoot from 3 or rebound for ****. It couldn’t hurt.

I’d be shocked if we win 4-5 B1G games. Collins better be on the hot seat next year. He blew the portal. Chose raw talent over fit. This is on him.

Carmody’s teams never had the talent for the most part so weren’t nearly as frustrating as this nonsense.

Go watch something else. Your takes are lazy.

 

[Baz = Heisman]

My takes are spot on. Clearly you don’t have much to say.

 

[ThatadultfromHolland]

My takes are spot on. Clearly you don’t have much to say.

Your takes are about as wrong as can be imo.

 

[Baz = Heisman]

Your takes are about as wrong as can be imo.

Again, debate me then. You clearly don’t have a thing to say.

 

[ThatadultfromHolland]

Again, debate me then. You clearly don’t have a thing to say.

I’ve already talked about this in a previous post, but it’s worth repeating: Page isn’t lazy. That narrative never held up if you were actually watching the game.

Gelo has taken a massive step forward from last season, and it jumps off the screen. The reads are quicker, the confidence is there, and he’s competing on both ends.

KJ’s minutes are about role overlap. Green brings the same gravity from deep, and the staff clearly prioritizes that spacing with the current lineups. Mullins is the best perimeter defender on the roster. It is not close. They hung in this game because of their defense.

MSU isone of the best defensive teams in the country. They kill transition, they choke off easy points, and they try to make you play in the half court all night. Scoring efficiently and playing fast against them is extremely hard.

And the Collins hot seat talk? That’s a joke.

 

[Purple Pile Driver]

Again, debate me then. You clearly don’t have a thing to say.

It’s ******* useless with you.

 

[SimpsonElmwood]

They have some real individual talent and play like a bunch of bums as a team.

1) Page is so ******* lazy on defense. Plays at half speed. Doesn’t move his feet.
2) Did Angelo not work on his shooting at all in the summer? He’s a bricklayer.
3) Why isn’t KJ playing? It’s absurd Mullins plays over him.
4) Martinelli going out like this is disgraceful. He’s out there giving it his all.
5) Why don’t we play faster? We can’t shoot from 3 or rebound for ****. It couldn’t hurt.

I’d be shocked if we win 4-5 B1G games. Collins better be on the hot seat next year. He blew the portal. Chose raw talent over fit. This is on him.

Carmody’s teams never had the talent for the most part so weren’t nearly as frustrating as this nonsense.

How to say "I'm a fair weather fan" in 5 bullet points.

And play faster? Are you kidding?

 

[TheC]

I’ve already talked about this in a previous post, but it’s worth repeating: Page isn’t lazy. That narrative never held up if you were actually watching the game.

Gelo has taken a massive step forward from last season, and it jumps off the screen. The reads are quicker, the confidence is there, and he’s competing on both ends.

KJ’s minutes are about role overlap. Green brings the same gravity from deep, and the staff clearly prioritizes that spacing with the current lineups. Mullins is the best perimeter defender on the roster. It is not close. They hung in this game because of their defense.

MSU isone of the best defensive teams in the country. They kill transition, they choke off easy points, and they try to make you play in the half court all night. Scoring efficiently and playing fast against them is extremely hard.

And the Collins hot seat talk? That’s a joke.

I think I agree with everything here except the part about Green. He is not the shooter that KJ was last year, at least to my eyes. KJ is also the only guy on this team that can make contested threes and threes off the dribble. This simply can't be about him being passed over by better players. No one has shown nearly the skill that KJ showed last season.

 

[Baz = Heisman]

How to say "I'm a fair weather fan" in 5 bullet points.

And play faster? Are you kidding?

Lol dude. I’ve literally been a fan since 1997 so, respectfully, shut the **** up. They should play faster bc Reid is little and gets pushed around in the half court. Plus we can’t shoot the 3 so you can get easier buckets, in theory.

 

[ThatadultfromHolland]

I think I agree with everything here except the part about Green. He is not the shooter that KJ was last year, at least to my eyes. KJ is also the only guy on this team that can make contested threes and threes off the dribble. This simply can't be about him being passed over by better players. No one has shown nearly the skill that KJ showed last season.

Green is a better shooter. KJ is better at breaking down the defender

 

[wildcatpn]

I’ve already talked about this in a previous post, but it’s worth repeating: Page isn’t lazy. That narrative never held up if you were actually watching the game.

Gelo has taken a massive step forward from last season, and it jumps off the screen. The reads are quicker, the confidence is there, and he’s competing on both ends.

KJ’s minutes are about role overlap. Green brings the same gravity from deep, and the staff clearly prioritizes that spacing with the current lineups. Mullins is the best perimeter defender on the roster. It is not close. They hung in this game because of their defense.

MSU isone of the best defensive teams in the country. They kill transition, they choke off easy points, and they try to make you play in the half court all night. Scoring efficiently and playing fast against them is extremely hard.

And the Collins hot seat talk? That’s a joke.

See how easy it is to discuss? I actually agree with a lot of what you say. Gelo has improved a lot but he’s not a very good shooter yet.

I have to disagree about Page, though I was very close to the floor at the Minnesota game and I won’t say he’s flat out lazy but let’s just say that he takes plays off. Which is unacceptable.

As for Windham, I think he will still get his chance(if it isn’t something like an injury or an attitude problem) because if the losses continue you have to give him a shot as one of your best athletes and shooters.

As for Collins on the hot seat, I agree that’s not a thing and shouldn’t be. He’s proven that he can adjust and I think he’ll do what’s needed to keep building this program to be a consistent contender for a tourney berth.

 

[Baz = Heisman]

I’ve already talked about this in a previous post, but it’s worth repeating: Page isn’t lazy. That narrative never held up if you were actually watching the game.

Gelo has taken a massive step forward from last season, and it jumps off the screen. The reads are quicker, the confidence is there, and he’s competing on both ends.

KJ’s minutes are about role overlap. Green brings the same gravity from deep, and the staff clearly prioritizes that spacing with the current lineups. Mullins is the best perimeter defender on the roster. It is not close. They hung in this game because of their defense.

MSU isone of the best defensive teams in the country. They kill transition, they choke off easy points, and they try to make you play in the half court all night. Scoring efficiently and playing fast against them is extremely hard.

And the Collins hot seat talk? That’s a joke.

I’ve seen Page up close twice - like from the first row - Okie State and Minnesota and, yes, he is lazy. He stands there and is slow to react consistently. He doesn’t keep his feet moving. That Grove dude at Minnesota made him look like a chair was guarding him. What else would you call it but lazy?

 

[ThatadultfromHolland]

See how easy it is to discuss? I actually agree with a lot of what you say. Gelo has improved a lot but he’s not a very good shooter yet.

I have to disagree about Page, though I was very close to the floor at the Minnesota game and I won’t say he’s flat out lazy but let’s just say that he takes plays off. Which is unacceptable.

As for Windham, I think he will still get his chance(if it isn’t something like an injury or an attitude problem) because if the losses continue you have to give him a shot as one of your best athletes and shooters.

As for Collins on the hot seat, I agree that’s not a thing and shouldn’t be. He’s proven that he can adjust and I think he’ll do what’s needed to keep building this program to be a consistent contender for a tourney berth.

I’m sick and tired of this board calling Page lazy and nitpicking body language or attitude of all things. You have no idea what these guys are like in practice, on the bench, or in huddles, and you definitely can’t tell that from TV angles or the stands. That’s just lazy analysis.

Page does not play lazy at all. He actually runs a pretty high motor and isn’t afraid to hit the deck for a loose ball. The defensive and rebounding issues are real, but they’re about positioning and feel, not effort. That’s a reps and experience problem, not a want-to problem.

I was at the game tonight. Not lazy. Tired of repeating my well thought out points to combat lazy analysis. There are posts after the quotes that dive further into how Page is not lazy.

 

[SimpsonElmwood]

respectfully, shut the **** up

This is not respectful. Perhaps you should chill out, bro. I've been watching games since the mid-80s. Get in line.

 

[TheC]

This is not respectful. Perhaps you should chill out, bro. I've been watching games since the mid-80s. Get in line.

That's a lot of pain. You'd think we'd be numb by now.

 

[Baz = Heisman]

This is not respectful. Perhaps you should chill out, bro. I've been watching games since the mid-80s. Get in line.

He came at me. I didn’t question his fandom.

 

[SimpsonElmwood]

Page is a chilled out guy. His default motor is slow, which can get him into trouble at times. But that slow motor is an asset on the offensive end. He can pass better than many big men and is calm and confident under the hoop.

Labeling Page as lazy is nothing other than lazy.

 

[SimpsonElmwood]

That's a lot of pain. You'd think we'd be numb by now.

I know you've seen a lot too! Need take the bad with the good.

 

[ThatadultfromHolland]

Page is a chilled out guy. His default motor is slow, which can get him into trouble at times. But that slow motor is an asset on the offensive end. He can pass better than many big men and is calm and confident under the hoop.

Labeling Page as lazy is nothing other than lazy.

I wouldn’t even call it a slow motor. He just isn’t very expressive and his game is really fluid. So people see a high level athlete whose defensive anticipation isn’t all the way there yet and they jump straight to “lazy.” He plays hard. He dives for loose balls. He takes a ton of contact and keeps competing. That is anything but lazy in my book.

 

[wildcatpn]

Page is a chilled out guy. His default motor is slow, which can get him into trouble at times. But that slow motor is an asset on the offensive end. He can pass better than many big men and is calm and confident under the hoop.

Labeling Page as lazy is nothing other than lazy.

This is actually a great way to describe it. Page is not flat out lazy. He’s shown he will dive on the floor but he does seem like a really chill guy and I think that causes him to get flat footed and get beat a lot on the defensive end. In the Minnesota game, at times it would look like he flat out was taking a break but like you said I think it’s more that he’s just such a laid back guy and he just isn’t a high motor guy just by nature. Having said that, he has to learn that when he’s on the court it has to be 100% effort all the time. Because that’s not what’s happening now.

 

[SimpsonElmwood]

I wouldn’t even call it a slow motor. He just isn’t very expressive and his game is really fluid. So people see a high level athlete whose defensive anticipation isn’t all the way there yet and they jump straight to “lazy.” He plays hard. He dives for loose balls. He takes a ton of contact and keeps competing. That is anything but lazy in my book.

Motor is not exactly the right word. Expressive or emotional is more accurate.

 

[TheC]

This is actually a great way to describe it. Page is not flat out lazy. He’s shown he will dive on the floor but he does seem like a really chill guy and I think that causes him to get flat footed and get beat a lot on the defensive end. In the Minnesota game, at times it would look like he flat out was taking a break but like you said I think it’s more that he’s just such a laid back guy and he just isn’t a high motor guy just by nature. Having said that, he has to learn that when he’s on the court it has to be 100% effort all the time. Because that’s not what’s happening now.

I can buy that. There was a play tonight where MSU shot a three pointer and Page was just standing completely still near the basket watching instead of going to find a man to box out. Sure enough, the ball bounced over his head to the MSU player behind him. You described it just right. He looked flat footed.

 

[Purple Pile Driver]

I wouldn’t even call it a slow motor. He just isn’t very expressive and his game is really fluid. So people see a high level athlete whose defensive anticipation isn’t all the way there yet and they jump straight to “lazy.” He plays hard. He dives for loose balls. He takes a ton of contact and keeps competing. That is anything but lazy in my book.

In my book there is nothing worse than calling a player lazy. Say he can’t shoot, can’t rebound, can’t pass, can’t defend, fine, but lazy don’t fly with me. He’s been on that train for at least the last 3 weeks. He’s thinks if he says it enough, he convince enough people that’s the problem with AP.

 

[Baz = Heisman]

This is actually a great way to describe it. Page is not flat out lazy. He’s shown he will dive on the floor but he does seem like a really chill guy and I think that causes him to get flat footed and get beat a lot on the defensive end. In the Minnesota game, at times it would look like he flat out was taking a break but like you said I think it’s more that he’s just such a laid back guy and he just isn’t a high motor guy just by nature. Having said that, he has to learn that when he’s on the court it has to be 100% effort all the time. Because that’s not what’s happening now.

Getting flat footed on defense is LAZY. You have to stay in your active stance. And not playing with max effort is LAZY. I’m glad you acknowledge he’s not doing that but your verbiage is PR spin. Also, Chris Collins must agree with me given he’s no longer starting him…

 

[ThatadultfromHolland]

Getting flat footed on defense is LAZY. You have to stay in your active stance. And not playing with max effort is LAZY. I’m glad you acknowledge he’s not doing that but your verbiage is PR spin. Also, Chris Collins must agree with me given he’s no longer starting him…

Flat-footed under the rim and late blockouts are real issues. But that’s exactly the point. That’s not a lack of effort or “dawg,” it’s a lack of defensive processing speed and feel. He’s reacting instead of anticipating. When you’re late on the read, you end up upright, ball watching, and hoping the rebound comes to you. That might appear as laziness to some, but in my opinion it’s uncertainty. True low effort guys don’t sprint back, don’t contest, don’t ever hit the floor. Page does those things. His mistakes are mental and positional, not effort.

As for why this hasn’t been fixed yet, defensive improvement isn’t linear, especially for bigs in a switch heavy system like NU runs. It’s not just “stand here and box out.” You’re reading the ball, your man, the driver, help responsibilities, and the switch all at once. If you’re a half second late on any of that, it’s over at this level. That’s why you see him caught in no man’s land instead of being early and active. Practice isn’t a vacuum. He’s learning new coverages, new terminology, and playing with new teammates who are also learning where their help is coming from. Defense relys on trust and communication. If you’re not 100% sure where your help is or if you should help, you hesitate. Hesitation looks like standing around. Hesitation gets you beat.

Positioning at this level isn’t static. It’s dynamic and read-based. That’s why you see improvement come in chunks, not week to week. Normally takes a year or two for most college players to get up to speed on that end. Page has the ability to be a good defender/rebounder. His positioning just needs drastic improvement.

Edit: getting in early foul trouble leads to more hesitation as well.

 

[ThatadultfromHolland]

I am being pretty lazy quoting myself I will admit.

 

[TheC]

I am being pretty lazy quoting myself I will admit.

As long as you box out!

 

[wildcatpn]

Getting flat footed on defense is LAZY. You have to stay in your active stance. And not playing with max effort is LAZY. I’m glad you acknowledge he’s not doing that but your verbiage is PR spin. Also, Chris Collins must agree with me given he’s no longer starting him…

I gotta disagree with you there. The definition of lazy is when you’re unwilling to work or show energy. He’s shown energy and a willingness to work. Some guys just aren’t very aggressive by nature. I’ve seen it up close in football. Those type of guys aren’t natural killers, they need something a little extra to get them going.

 

[NUcats92]

They have some real individual talent and play like a bunch of bums as a team.

1) Page is so ******* lazy on defense. Plays at half speed. Doesn’t move his feet.
2) Did Angelo not work on his shooting at all in the summer? He’s a bricklayer.
3) Why isn’t KJ playing? It’s absurd Mullins plays over him.
4) Martinelli going out like this is disgraceful. He’s out there giving it his all.
5) Why don’t we play faster? We can’t shoot from 3 or rebound for ****. It couldn’t hurt.

I’d be shocked if we win 4-5 B1G games. Collins better be on the hot seat next year. He blew the portal. Chose raw talent over fit. This is on him.

Carmody’s teams never had the talent for the most part so weren’t nearly as frustrating as this nonsense.

10/10 rage bait!

 

[SouthportCat]

No way Page is lazy. I think there are times where he expends so much energy on offense that he is gassed on the other end pretty quick. Only criticism I might have is a few times over the season it looked like he pursued a highlight reel blocked shot rather than moving his feet.

 

[AdamOnFirst]

No way Page is lazy. I think there are times where he expends so much energy on offense that he is gassed on the other end pretty quick. Only criticism I might have is a few times over the season it looked like he pursued a highlight reel blocked shot rather than moving his feet.

I think he just clearly processes the game too slowly on defense. Maybe he isn’t putting in the effort off the court to learn, but I agree he doesn’t play lazy, just slow and behind. He gots caught watching the game A LOT. He had four dang fouls in 11 minutes last night, and he wasn’t athletically outmatched. That’s a guy who is just slow to react and flailing defensively. The game-feel/basketball-IQ stuff is far more valid to me.

 

[docrugby1]

Green is a better shooter. KJ is better at breaking down the defender

What is Green's 3 point %? KJ showed what type of player he was last year. He should be playing. If he complained about lack of playing time, CC should have listened rather than completely bench him

 

[Purple Pile Driver]

What is Green's 3 point %? KJ showed what type of player he was last year. He should be playing. If he complained about lack of playing time, CC should have listened rather than completely bench him

So now KJ isn’t playing because CCC is punishing him for complaining? Lol, he isn’t a moron. You and I are never going to find out the real reason, but all of the speculation is exactly that speculation. He did nothing all season, it’s not like he dropped a dozen every game and suddenly disappeared. There is obviously something going on internally here and we aren’t likely to see him on the court except in the lay up line.

 

[ThePurpleKnight]

This is a bunch of talented individuals but not a good “team”. There’s never been a set lineup or rotation. Majority of the players don’t really understand their role. I’d expect a couple of the younger guys to leave the team after this year. Overall a mess.

 

[AdamOnFirst]

This is a bunch of talented individuals but not a good “team”. There’s never been a set lineup or rotation. Majority of the players don’t really understand their role. I’d expect a couple of the younger guys to leave the team after this year. Overall a mess.

I don’t really agree with the idea that this team is less than the sum of its parts. Reid is fast but not fast enough to consistently blitz the floor bs major conference teams and he is pretty brutally undersized which makes his work in the lane and on defense untenable. Page is just a terrible individual defender, and he isn’t the only guy like that on the team. Green is a bad defender for the opposite reason as Page: he’s got a big ten shot but simply doesn’t have the size and speed for the Big Ten. No shutdown or perimeter defender even exists, probably only Mullins is even a plus defender. It’s just not a competitive team in this brutal Big Ten where nearly every team has a bunch of seven figure guys and plenty of 22 year old Euro pros.

 

[docrugby1]

So now KJ isn’t playing because CCC is punishing him for complaining? Lol, he isn’t a moron. You and I are never going to find out the real reason, but all of the speculation is exactly that speculation. He did nothing all season, it’s not like he dropped a dozen every game and suddenly disappeared. There is obviously something going on internally here and we aren’t likely to see him on the court except in the lay up line.

"If" - you omitted that word

 

[phatcat_rivals223240]

Green is a better shooter. KJ is better at breaking down the defender

Since his "big" game vs SCar, Green's shooting has been largely unimpressive

 

[AdamOnFirst]

Since his "big" game vs SCar, Green's shooting has been largely unimpressive

Can confirm, he’s 7/30 from outside since that game