I know, I know, I know... I know it is a case of thinking what you DON'T see is better than what you DO see, and I know the coaches see him in practice... but man, I'd love to see Javin in there a bit. He is big, long, and super athletic, and I can't help but feel he could offer *something*.
I wish we could see a LITTLE Javin
- Thread starter TheDude1
- Start date
I think we see him Saturday...Something has to change, and pretty soon or we will find ourselves in a downward spiral. Despite not having all our personnel theres too much talent on this squad to have laid 2 giant eggs on the road IMO....
Grayson is our best distibutor and the offense needs to start and go thru him. Tatum needs to take BETTER SHOTS, and be more of a TEAM PLAYER. (He can definitely improve upon his 44% shooting). One of the bigs (Giles, Ques, Jeter) has to emerge at least on a small scale to give us true post presence at both ends....
OFC
Grayson is our best distibutor and the offense needs to start and go thru him. Tatum needs to take BETTER SHOTS, and be more of a TEAM PLAYER. (He can definitely improve upon his 44% shooting). One of the bigs (Giles, Ques, Jeter) has to emerge at least on a small scale to give us true post presence at both ends....
OFC
I'm much, much more concerned about a mere 10 minutes for Giles. Especially considering that Jeter, who got over twice as many minutes, wasn't playing well at all. I still can't wrap my mind around that decision.
In Capel's one game as head coach last year we saw a rare Vrank appearance, so I suppose it's possible.
It was actually for 35 seconds before halftime...and Marshall and Chase both already had three fouls.
The bits and pieces we saw of Vrank in the non-conference, I would say he is nowhere near ready for ACC action. Javin could be, but I'd assume the injury is what is holding him back.
Regardless though, Giles, Chase, or Marques MUST improve, and quickly.
Regardless though, Giles, Chase, or Marques MUST improve, and quickly.
Giles and Bolden combined for 3 fouls, 4 pts, 2 boards and 2 to's in 14 mins....Despite his poor showing last nite I give cred to Frank Jackson for tying Jeter in leading rebounder for Duke: both had 6.....
OFC
I would like to see both get time, especially against a huge player like Ojo or UNC meeks. We need a big body or athletic one since the guards are not staying with their man.
I thought last night Jeter was our best interior defender, but on offense he won't dunk until he quits bringing the ball down.
He should have scored a minimum of 6 last night.
It gives the defender plenty enough recovery time when Chase brings the ball down almost to his thighs when dunking.
He should have scored a minimum of 6 last night.
It gives the defender plenty enough recovery time when Chase brings the ball down almost to his thighs when dunking.
He has to look to score more, it keeps the defense honest. The two plays he didn't it cost us the ball.
I can hardly fault Capel for only playing Giles 10 minutes; his defense looks very suspect as he has trouble rotating over to other players. Chase did a solid job defending in the interior, but unfortunately, his offense still leaves much to be desired. I don't know what to say about Marques. He seems to foul a lot and force a lot of the action on offense. He was playing so well in the preseason it's tough to seem he struggle like he is now.
The season is long. We are still very talented. Between the prospect of Amile returning and 2+ months for Harry/Marques to improve, I still think we'll have a very, very different looking team in March.
The season is long. We are still very talented. Between the prospect of Amile returning and 2+ months for Harry/Marques to improve, I still think we'll have a very, very different looking team in March.
Tatum definitely needs to take better shots and play some damn defense.
I too would like to see Javin a bit - but I trust the coaches have a better feel for things than we do.
I have nothing bad to say about Giles. He plays really hard and from what I've seen he is a very good teammate. I saw him jump Tatum in the BC game for taking a bad shot. He was denying EVERY pass in the GT game. I didn't see the game last night, but I'm guessing his effort was there but his body just isn't ready yet.
Which leads me to the point I want to make and I think some need to remember. I try to go easier on guys that are clearly giving great effort. Matt Jones has gotten a ton of criticism this year, and there have been times when his shooting has been frustrating. He is far from the most talented player on the team, but he gives everything he's got. I'll take that over what Tatum is giving us right now.
I have nothing bad to say about Giles. He plays really hard and from what I've seen he is a very good teammate. I saw him jump Tatum in the BC game for taking a bad shot. He was denying EVERY pass in the GT game. I didn't see the game last night, but I'm guessing his effort was there but his body just isn't ready yet.
Which leads me to the point I want to make and I think some need to remember. I try to go easier on guys that are clearly giving great effort. Matt Jones has gotten a ton of criticism this year, and there have been times when his shooting has been frustrating. He is far from the most talented player on the team, but he gives everything he's got. I'll take that over what Tatum is giving us right now.
just wanna see some of everyone....fsu kids looked fresh the whole game..give the kids some burn
I get it, but I was just drawing the picture of WHY we saw him.
Like dukephysics pointed out, I trust the staff has a better understanding on Javin than any of us here. But even beyond that, a few things, which I think are obvious, stand out as to why you wouldn't see him in a game last night. 1) He's been on the shelf for a couple weeks and hasn't practiced much since Christmas, 2) With the staff trying to figure some things out to make Duke their best down the road, he's not really a part of the 'big picture' for this team to be successful 'this' season, and 3) He's yet to play in an ACC game so throwing him out there at FSU, again, on so little practice and conditioning time, just doesn't seem to go with what Duke has traditionally done.
Javin is the kind of player who we might see take the career path of Amile....and that takes some patience. His time will come.
There's an old saying that has become a cliche but it's quite true:
Expectations lead to frustration.
Given the injuries to the players and Coach K and resulting disarray we pretty much have to shut down the high expectations for this year's team.
One big problem for these young guys and injuries is that they aren't vets who can step right back in once they are healthy. They have not had time to develop mentally and emotionally with respect to a) the speed of the college game; b) mental side of overcoming injury; c) learning to play Duke's system and communicate on defense (as well as positioning on the court which takes time to figure out).
Right now, Giles is a shell of the player we saw in high school. Even at that, he never struck me as a dominant inside presence but as a player who did a lot of things well - yet will struggle to find his position as he progresses to higher levels of competition. His NBA stock has to be dropping at this point. That could frustrate him. He probably, realistically, needs another year. He may feel that's a risk with his knees and if he remains a top 15 pick will go to get a guaranteed contract; but those knees are not going to hold up for an 82 game season if they can't for a 40 game season. As it is, the NBA has to be starting to wonder about him unless his game picks up. If he came back next year (I know it's not going to happen) and was fully healthy then I think he'd be a top 3-4 selection. I don't see that now at all.
Don't know what the deal is with Bolden except that perhaps he's been over-rated. Maybe he's frustrated emotionally and mentally with the situation. If so, that could be trouble. But, if he realizes his game as a lot of room to improve and stays at Duke another year, he could become a force.
There remains the long-term frustration I and others do have with Coach K's system, outside of expectations (though I think he's the best CBB coach in history, I think there is a particular flaw he has) - that he doesn't play a lot of players who have talent to be on the court - especially younger talent. FSU has 3 freshmen getting quality PT and only one is highly rated. One of the comments of the FSU players after the game goes to the point:
FSU played 11 players 9+ minutes (a 12th got 5 minutes) in a game that was still in the balance until 5 minutes to go or so. I know we had Javin out with injury and then Amile out. But, I'd like to see a game where we use 9-10 at least 5-7 meaningful minutes in the ACC given that our bench talent is as good as some teams like FSU.
Expectations lead to frustration.
Given the injuries to the players and Coach K and resulting disarray we pretty much have to shut down the high expectations for this year's team.
One big problem for these young guys and injuries is that they aren't vets who can step right back in once they are healthy. They have not had time to develop mentally and emotionally with respect to a) the speed of the college game; b) mental side of overcoming injury; c) learning to play Duke's system and communicate on defense (as well as positioning on the court which takes time to figure out).
Right now, Giles is a shell of the player we saw in high school. Even at that, he never struck me as a dominant inside presence but as a player who did a lot of things well - yet will struggle to find his position as he progresses to higher levels of competition. His NBA stock has to be dropping at this point. That could frustrate him. He probably, realistically, needs another year. He may feel that's a risk with his knees and if he remains a top 15 pick will go to get a guaranteed contract; but those knees are not going to hold up for an 82 game season if they can't for a 40 game season. As it is, the NBA has to be starting to wonder about him unless his game picks up. If he came back next year (I know it's not going to happen) and was fully healthy then I think he'd be a top 3-4 selection. I don't see that now at all.
Don't know what the deal is with Bolden except that perhaps he's been over-rated. Maybe he's frustrated emotionally and mentally with the situation. If so, that could be trouble. But, if he realizes his game as a lot of room to improve and stays at Duke another year, he could become a force.
There remains the long-term frustration I and others do have with Coach K's system, outside of expectations (though I think he's the best CBB coach in history, I think there is a particular flaw he has) - that he doesn't play a lot of players who have talent to be on the court - especially younger talent. FSU has 3 freshmen getting quality PT and only one is highly rated. One of the comments of the FSU players after the game goes to the point:
FSU played 11 players 9+ minutes (a 12th got 5 minutes) in a game that was still in the balance until 5 minutes to go or so. I know we had Javin out with injury and then Amile out. But, I'd like to see a game where we use 9-10 at least 5-7 meaningful minutes in the ACC given that our bench talent is as good as some teams like FSU.
I understand what you mean as far as depth goes. But guess what, if we play 10-12 guys a night, none of the top recruits are going to come play for us. That's just the nature of the business.
And please nobody say they are tired of landing the best five star guys that play with no heart, would you like to go back to the years 2007-2009????Thought so.
I do not want to see "Little Javin". Now I would love to see Javin play more.
I do not see where playing 9-10 guys (as that is what poster you are responding to said not 10-12) with at least two of those getting 5-7 minutes - again as poster said - will chase away 5 star talent.
10 man rotation example: 5-7 minutes for two guys is approx. 12 minutes (averaging to 6) of game time. That leaves 23.5 minutes per game for 8 players. Then if you average two of the nonstarters to 12.5 minutes a game each (25 minutes total) and that leaves the top 6 having 28.83 minutes apiece.
Just food for thought - I am not advocating the above rotation - just showing playing a 10 man rotation would not deprive 5 stars from enough minutes and chase them away IMO.
I hope javin does get a shot to see what he can do....at least I think he would give some effort...that would be more than Bolden has given us this year so far
Vrank isn't playing so give that hope up
Bolden is soft as tissue paper and don't seem to care
Chase looks lost 90% of the time he is on the floor
I want to see what javin can give us...maybe nothing but at least give him a chance
Bolden is soft as tissue paper and don't seem to care
Chase looks lost 90% of the time he is on the floor
I want to see what javin can give us...maybe nothing but at least give him a chance
I feel you there. That kills our ball movement though. We just need better play from HG and Jay to make that traditional lineup work.