My choice as replacement.....JIMMY ROGERS (Currently HC at Wash. State) Doing a great job at a school left out in the non-conf. wilderness.
He's proven, young and hungry.
He's proven, young and hungry.
If Beamer Leaves for V.Tech....
- Thread starter Permacock70
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I'd say he's most likely not leaving, pending the outcome of the Coastal Carolina game.
For any other fan base at a program that took football seriously, that would be the straw that broke the camel's back. I just don't think our fan base is passionate enough to force a change like at PSU and LSU. The souring of the fan base at those programs left the ADs with no choice.
I honestly think our fans enjoy the cat and mouse game we have with respectability and don't think we would enjoy actually being a good program. We thrive that feeling of almost being ready to turn the corner. Kind of like how people found the whole Pam/Jim dynamic in the office far more entertaining and engaging than Pam/Jim as a couple (or Ross/Rachel for Friends fans). Or going back even further...Tom and Jerry. The thrill was in the chase. We enjoy the pursuit of being a respectable program more than the thought of actually attaining respectability.
For well over a hundred years we have struck the perfect balance of mostly perpetual mediocrity mixed in with a few disastrous seasons and a few really good seasons. We have the magic formula of hope and despair. We're never so bad for so long that fans give up. And we always throw in a decent season frequently enough that fans stay engaged.
And we're pretty much happy with that formula. Happy enough that we don't ever want to take the next step as a program.
For any other fan base at a program that took football seriously, that would be the straw that broke the camel's back. I just don't think our fan base is passionate enough to force a change like at PSU and LSU. The souring of the fan base at those programs left the ADs with no choice.
I honestly think our fans enjoy the cat and mouse game we have with respectability and don't think we would enjoy actually being a good program. We thrive that feeling of almost being ready to turn the corner. Kind of like how people found the whole Pam/Jim dynamic in the office far more entertaining and engaging than Pam/Jim as a couple (or Ross/Rachel for Friends fans). Or going back even further...Tom and Jerry. The thrill was in the chase. We enjoy the pursuit of being a respectable program more than the thought of actually attaining respectability.
For well over a hundred years we have struck the perfect balance of mostly perpetual mediocrity mixed in with a few disastrous seasons and a few really good seasons. We have the magic formula of hope and despair. We're never so bad for so long that fans give up. And we always throw in a decent season frequently enough that fans stay engaged.
And we're pretty much happy with that formula. Happy enough that we don't ever want to take the next step as a program.
After watching this season play out, why would anyone think Va Tech would be serious about hiring Beamer or anyone else from this staff.
4-8, 5-7 seasons attract a lot of attention for all the wrong reasons.
4-8, 5-7 seasons attract a lot of attention for all the wrong reasons.
They would hire him for the same reason Carolina hired him, his last name. They would be chasing nostalgia and Carolina was chasing a fantasy.
How? Who do we hire? What avenue do we take that we haven't previously taken? We have had our most success when we hire legends at the end of their career. Is that our MO? Dietzel, Holtz, Spur.
"Most success" is pretty relative. Outside of three years under Spurrier, which were total unicorns regarding recruiting, even the "legends" have been pretty mediocre as far as results. Spurrier quit mid season (that is still incredibly shameful) and that didn't help the attractiveness of the head coaching job at South Carolina football.
The money coaches make now and the new NIL/portal landscape makes the motivation for a retired coach to jump back in and try to build a program pretty weak. These coaches don't need any money and they don't want to get into coaching in college where they have very little control over the players. Once coaches retire, they tend to stay retired now.
Except, they would now have his resume to look at, and how can anyone justify that hire. You can't.
Logical post; well done.
You and others call it'serious about football.' To me its that we are not willing to go to the depths and actions that other programs do and have done just to win football games. I have quite a few Georgia friends and when they lose a game, to many of them the season is over; lose another and its over for all of them. Thats just not the way I roll, and many, many are like me. I don't see ESPN highlights and talking heads when I think Gamecock football; I see green grass, time spent with my father and now my son on the way up and back as well as being there, talking strategies and players, etc. Using Georgia as an example again and now LSU, Richt and Kelley, thats just not something I admire and thats not 'worth it' to me personally. I've said before, Gamecock sports is what I have chosen and to me, its like a set of books; each season is a volume that I wait eight months for and each game, preseason and postseason are chapters. I enjoy reading the books. I know this is a very unpopular perspective on social media, but here we are.
Carry on.
That is a healthy take. I would imagine if South Carolina ever had the lasting success that LSU or UGA has had on the field, you might feel a little more passionate about the actual football. Never having experienced real success in football, you have (wisely) decided to focus on the positive aspects of SC football.
Well, the actual football IS what I’m passionate about. It’s the debilitating need to win-win-win to FEEL anything about it is what doesn’t bother me as much as it obviously does some. Again to reference Georgia fans, when it comes to the nuances of the game itself they are amongst the most clueless around, but they’ll declare themselves masters of the universe with every W.
I really enjoyed the Bama game. What I didn't like, and feel passionate about, are the mistakes - especially the stupid ones that cause you to lose a game you should have won.
I don't know what you mean by "nuances of the game itself" but they seem to know what is and isn't quality football and they don't put up with poor play for very long. The same can be said for Bama fans. They don't tolerate underperforming for very long either.
What if he doesn't want to come here? Like Kirby Smart or that Herman dude that played us.
I agree that Franklin would be a good hire. I wanted him when he was at Vandy but the one I really wanted was Mike Leach.
My reason for asking is that I think the admin HAS been serious about football. I just don't understand what happens to these coaches and players once they get here. I wonder what happens when these coaches are hired, what is the extent of control the BoT and admin have on their decisions? I remember when Beamer was hired, there was some pressure to keep Bobo.
What if Franklin does come here but sucks? Or goes along the Holtz / Spurrier path? Is that admin not being serious or chicken curse?
Sorry for the rambling but I have been watching the same BS since 1975 and would like to know the truth. The truth is out there.
Look at our history. We hired:
Paul Dietzel: a national championship coach;
Jim Carlen: won big at 2 FBS schools:
Richard Bell: good Defensive Coordinator under Carlen
Joe Morrison: won big at a FBS school and at a non-FBS school
Sparky Woods: won big at a non-FBS school
Brad Scott: OC at a national championship school and called the best recruiter in the nation
Lou Holtz: a national championship coach
Steve Spurrier; a national championship coach.
A case could be made for hiring all of the above coaches. But then something went wrong in the mind-set and culture within the university. We hired:
Will Muschamp; though he was a proven, good Defensive Coordinator, that was cancelled out by his firing at Florida (of all places with its enormous recruiting base)
Shane Beamer: he had never accomplished anything exceptional in his coaching career.
Something changed at the University 10 years ago. To go from Holtz/Spurrier, though at the end of their coaching careers, but still Hall Of Famers to Muschamp/Beamer, WHAT A DIFFERENCE!!!!!!! Why the change, is a mystery to me. It's as if they suddenly decided to SETTLE for a warm body.....be satisfied with mediocrity.
Paul Dietzel: a national championship coach;
Jim Carlen: won big at 2 FBS schools:
Richard Bell: good Defensive Coordinator under Carlen
Joe Morrison: won big at a FBS school and at a non-FBS school
Sparky Woods: won big at a non-FBS school
Brad Scott: OC at a national championship school and called the best recruiter in the nation
Lou Holtz: a national championship coach
Steve Spurrier; a national championship coach.
A case could be made for hiring all of the above coaches. But then something went wrong in the mind-set and culture within the university. We hired:
Will Muschamp; though he was a proven, good Defensive Coordinator, that was cancelled out by his firing at Florida (of all places with its enormous recruiting base)
Shane Beamer: he had never accomplished anything exceptional in his coaching career.
Something changed at the University 10 years ago. To go from Holtz/Spurrier, though at the end of their coaching careers, but still Hall Of Famers to Muschamp/Beamer, WHAT A DIFFERENCE!!!!!!! Why the change, is a mystery to me. It's as if they suddenly decided to SETTLE for a warm body.....be satisfied with mediocrity.
I don't see Beamer leaving unless Virginia Tech offers him $8.1 million. Should they do that, Beamer will hire a realtor so fast, it will make your head spin. The chance to make that money AND play an ACC schedule rather than an SEC schedule, he'd be on the first plane to Blacksburg.
I think Beamer stays but if Donati goes to the market, then someone like Sonny Dykes who he hired before, and who only makes $7 million at TCU, would probably be in play, Some AD's tend to hire who they hired before that worked out, (See Danny White at UT with Heupel) of course Dykes may just use us to get a raise.
Two names to keep eyes on:
Scott Satterfield: Head Coach at University of Cincinnati: 52 years-old; a native of North Carolina. He is offensive-minded. Runs a balanced offense. Won 3 conference championships at App State. He produced 3 bowl teams in 4 years at Louisville. In 3 seasons at Cincinnati, he has gone from 3 wins to 5 wins to 7-1 this seasons, ranked 17th in the nation. (NOTE: He is NOT related to Marcus)
Jake Dickert: Head Coach at Wake Forest; 42 years of age. Defense-oriented coach. Produced 3 bowl teams in 4 years at Washington State. Is 5-2 in his first year at Wake Forest (should be 6-1 except for a blown off-sides call against Georgia Tech).
Uh, Jim Carlen and Joe Morrison. Neither were legends at the end of legendary careers when hired here.
Carlen produced the first 8 win seasons at USC; he recruited Heisman winner George Rogers;
Morrison produced the first nationally-ranked teams here (2).
But it is more fun when the team is good, right?
I can understand thinking we shouldn't be willing to do anything and everything without restraint in the name of winning. But for what we are spending, we are getting a pretty lousy ROI. I'd just like to see us be smarter and more strategic.
The Beamer hire makes since from a CEO standpoint. I think they were looking for SC version of Dabo. He said he had big time coaches wanting to be on his staff.
The Muschamp hire is a total mystery.
Wait a minute. Smart ain't close to Franklin or Herman. Both of the latter are overhyped guys with good agents and a year or two good seasons that "made" them. What Clark Lea has done at Vandy in PRESENT day football is more impressive than anything Franklin or any other Vandy coach has done in the last 50 years. I know we aren't getting Lea and aren't going after him.....just to illustrate Lea > Franklin.
Please correct me if I'm misinterpreting your comment. What you are saying is that the hiring authorities at USC are so stupid that they thought that hiring someone who had never been a Head Coach nor even an OC/DC would be just as successful in a conference of big time football powers as it is in a conference made up mostly of "basketball-first" schools. SMH And they really thought "big time coaches" would want to work for a Nepo Baby? What that tells me is that we have people at this university who are simply going through the motions so that they can say they are Board of Trustees at USC. That is disheartening.
Of course it is. But it’s not just ‘fun’ ONLY when we’re winning. One of my favorite teams was the 86 team; didn’t win a bunch but played with heart and courage.
You guys are lamenting last weeks game like the end of the world is imminent. I saw a team playing like the 86 team; I saw a team that played out of its shoes get badly damaged by a piis ant holding call (hello 24 LSU game) that cost us a dagger to the heart touchdown after leaving our opposition unfettered with grabbing clutching and pulling all game, ignored by fans so certain that if they but had the ‘right’ coach we would hit the promised land and any notion to the contrary is nonsense and any other perception is wrong. Practically immoral even.
I personally haven't lamented it much more than other losses.
I understand your point. I felt somewhat the same way about the 1999 team. The results were ugly but you could see groundwork being laid for what transpired the following season. However, I've seen us give valiant effort in a losing cause more times than I can count. I would eventually like to see us be a winning program.
Of course, I certainly understand it doesn't matter I feel or you feel or anyone else feels. It doesn't change one iota about the program. But it would sure would be nice to get to cheer for a winner one day.
I see the idea of trying to duplicate the Dabo situation. I also see, as you said, the futility of doing that in the SEC vs the ACC.
That is basically what I have observed since 1975. One way or another, the powers that be F it up. Why was Jim Carlen fired?
I like Beamer and want him to be successful and so far, he has done pretty well with that big boy conference and a schedule that Drinkwitz and Kiffin haven't had to face but it looks like his poor choices for OC and OL coaches as well as his stubbornness holding on to them will be his demise. I don't know a damn thing about coaching football, but I would have fired Teasley after his first season and Shula after the bowl game.
I agree with you on the hire not looking very good on paper, but you act as if we haven't even gone to a bowl under his leadership much less sniffed the playoffs last year.
I only brought up Smart and Herman because we went after them on the last coaching search, but they turned us down.
I have no idea whether Lea is better than Franklin......maybe so. Lea didn't do much his first few years there where Franklin won every year he was there. It does appear that it is possible to win at Vandy if you have a very good quarterback. Maybe the rest of the players on the Vandy team are smart enough to execute their assignments and the quarterback becomes the catalyst. Lea's run this year is impressive and I hope they make the playoffs but let's see how Lea does next year (if still at Vandy) before we anoint him the second coming of Saban.
Seems like the last 2 coaches got big raises for an 8 or 9 win season but can't duplicate it.
True, I don't understand why we start worrying about them leaving after one good season. I can see a one-year extension and/or a modest raise but throw the bank at them is ridiculous.
Carlen's history is pretty interesting. He was the HC at West Virginia when Dietzel got us to the Peach Bowl in 1969. Bobby Bowden was his OC. He spent 5 years at Texas Tech before he was hired at SC.
Morrison was at UTC and went to New Mexico from where we hired him after we fired Bell.
So yeah, neither was "legendary" in any sense of the word, but managed to be successful at SC.