Is Hal Rodgers..

[bigblueinsanity_rivals250340]

So let me get this straight, this is a thread discussing Hal Rodgers and his gross ineffectiveness. But somehow rqarnold comes crashing in like a wrecking ball with tons of pro Obama propaganda.

Go post that in the political thread.

 

[Get Buckets]

But somehow rqarnold comes crashing in like a wrecking ball with tons of pro Obama propaganda.

Under what screenname?

 

[Atrain7732]

Legalize drugs. Use the tax money to fund rehab programs. Quit criminalizing and rehab it. The tax on it would be paid for by users only.

One thing is for damn sure. The Federal Gov't will never win this war. They can't arrest their way out of this problem.

Agree completely. Have been an advocate for this for some time. Even remember thinking it was a great idea many years ago as a young man. The guy, I think his name was Tom Snyder?, who had that "Late Late Show" was one of the first people I had heard who supported this idea. At that time it was a radical notion but I have always agreed that it would immediately stop all, or most of, the crime associated with drugs and start us down the path that the war on drugs was intended to.

 

[Bill Derington]

Agree completely. Have been an advocate for this for some time. Even remember thinking it was a great idea many years ago as a young man. The guy, I think his name was Tom Snyder?, who had that "Late Late Show" was one of the first people I had heard who supported this idea. At that time it was a radical notion but I have always agreed that it would immediately stop all, or most of, the crime associated with drugs and start us down the path that the war on drugs was intended to.

While the idea looks good on paper, I don't think you fully understand what addiction does to a person. It's not as easy as opening a rehab center , and people get better.

Physical dependency on drugs or alcohol is a horrible, horrible situation, and I say that as someone that has personally been there. Something like 85% of people that go to rehab relapse, usually very quickly.

I went twice, in a 4month window. Yet, even after the second trip I relapsed within a week, and every time the withdrawals get worse. I didn't get clean for good until I realized I was gonna die soon if I didn't quit. Rockbottom is a real place, and it scared me bad enough I haven't had a drink since then, 3.5 years ago.

Sorry for the length, I've seen too many young people whose life and families are ruined or they die from drug use.

 

[MegaBlue05]

Legalize drugs. Use the tax money to fund rehab programs. Quit criminalizing and rehab it. The tax on it would be paid for by users only.

One thing is for damn sure. The Federal Gov't will never win this war. They can't arrest their way out of this problem.

I don't think they want to win it. For-profit prisons don't stay full if drug arrests stop, so the politicians' homies in the prison bid-ness can't get richer if the prisons aren't full.

Secondly, I believe the U.S. government has its hands at the top (distribution) and bottom (law enforcement) of the dope game.

Basically, this:

 

[crazyqx83_rivals88013]

Crazy, thats 2 different charts, with 2 different sets of criteria. Your first accurately reflected the mans comment about Eastern KY. The second is a US chart, one is amount of coal produced in KY, the other is number of miners in the US.

So you think the graph that shows coal production in EKY falling IN HALF between 1990 and 2009 (when Obama took office) represents how "booming the coal business had been during the 90's and early 2000's"?

Do you really honestly think that? HONESTLY?

 

[BatCats32]

So you think the graph that shows coal production in EKY falling IN HALF between 1990 and 2009 (when Obama took office) represents how "booming the coal business had been during the 90's and early 2000's"?

Do you really honestly think that? HONESTLY?

I wasn't gonna comment further.. But, this dude is testing me.

How many years did you work in the production side of coal? Just curios..

Your graph of the decline in workers is flawed, doesn't explain the full story. I'll say that right now. Because if you wanna talk coal and how it works, we can, if you wanna talk coal and figure the numbers we can. I can unload on your non coal working ***. If you wanna go this route we can. How are people like us able to wander on the interwebs with our eastern ky education, we can go there. Your move son.. I may own your *** from this point

 

[BatCats32]

**** it.. Balls in your court

 

[Bill Derington]

So you think the graph that shows coal production in EKY falling IN HALF between 1990 and 2009 (when Obama took office) represents how "booming the coal business had been during the 90's and early 2000's"?

Do you really honestly think that? HONESTLY?

Your chart only goes to 1980, the 90's were the peak, the early 2000's it was falling, but still above the average.
I don't know what it was before 1980 from that chart, but the highest peak was the time the man said.
The bottom has fallen out since Obama took office.

 

[Atrain7732]

While the idea looks good on paper, I don't think you fully understand what addiction does to a person. It's not as easy as opening a rehab center , and people get better.

Physical dependency on drugs or alcohol is a horrible, horrible situation, and I say that as someone that has personally been there. Something like 85% of people that go to rehab relapse, usually very quickly.

I went twice, in a 4month window. Yet, even after the second trip I relapsed within a week, and every time the withdrawals get worse. I didn't get clean for good until I realized I was gonna die soon if I didn't quit. Rockbottom is a real place, and it scared me bad enough I haven't had a drink since then, 3.5 years ago.

Sorry for the length, I've seen too many young people whose life and families are ruined or they die from drug use.

First congratulations on your sobriety. Secondly, I am very experienced with addiction in many ways that I don't care to get into honestly. Suffice to say I have seen the effects of withdrawal up close and personal on many occasions.

And I never proclaimed that just opening a rehab center would be the end of the problem. Quite the opposite, it is the beginning. But having lived in E KY for a large part of my life it is shocking the amount of addicts in relation to the amount of help that is available. I would think as a recovering addict you would be the first to acknowledge that it is not a battle that can easily be beaten without some form of assistance.

All I was saying is that in my opinion if drugs are legalized and most importantly decriminalized you can begin to allow addicts to be treated in treatment facilities and outpatient clinics instead of locking them up for simple possession and paraphernalia charges. You ask any sheriff of any small town in E KY what the percentages of people in his jails are, I guarantee it is upward of 90%. We are locking up an entire generation of people and not giving them access to the help they truly need.

I am no bleeding heart either. People who continually offend should not be offered these services. I do think everyone would win if we did try to help some of the addicts who make a mistake and could be aided in turning their life around.

 

[Free_Salato_Blue]

Cheap natural gas has done more to hurt coal production, along with the health and safety regulations.

http://oilprice.com/Energy/Energy-G...k-Another-Wave-Of-Coal-Plant-Retirements.html

 

[Bill Derington]

First congratulations on your sobriety. Secondly, I am very experienced with addiction in many ways that I don't care to get into honestly. Suffice to say I have seen the effects of withdrawal up close and personal on many occasions.

And I never proclaimed that just opening a rehab center would be the end of the problem. Quite the opposite, it is the beginning. But having lived in E KY for a large part of my life it is shocking the amount of addicts in relation to the amount of help that is available. I would think as a recovering addict you would be the first to acknowledge that it is not a battle that can easily be beaten without some form of assistance.

All I was saying is that in my opinion if drugs are legalized and most importantly decriminalized you can begin to allow addicts to be treated in treatment facilities and outpatient clinics instead of locking them up for simple possession and paraphernalia charges. You ask any sheriff of any small town in E KY what the percentages of people in his jails are, I guarantee it is upward of 90%. We are locking up an entire generation of people and not giving them access to the help they truly need.

I am no bleeding heart either. People who continually offend should not be offered these services. I do think everyone would win if we did try to help some of the addicts who make a mistake and could be aided in turning their life around.

I understand, and it makes sense to a degree to me. However, I just think the number of new addicts that would grow from legalizing ALL drugs would far surpass the number that would benefit from what you're speaking.

I think the only way to solve the drug problem is trying to understand WHY people initially start taking drugs.

 

[Bill Derington]

Cheap natural gas has done more to hurt coal production, along with the health and safety regulations.

http://oilprice.com/Energy/Energy-G...k-Another-Wave-Of-Coal-Plant-Retirements.html

Natural Gas is cheap, but it's still as high or higher than coal in regards to making electricity. The switch is happening due to regulations coming down the pipe that will make coal more expensive.

Kentucky also shipped alot of coal out of country not long ago, as its a high BTU product.

 

[numberonedad]

http://www.bloomberg.com/view/articles/2015-08-04/obama-didn-t-kill-coal-the-market-did

 

[Atrain7732]

I understand, and it makes sense to a degree to me. However, I just think the number of new addicts that would grow from legalizing ALL drugs would far surpass the number that would benefit from what you're speaking.

I think the only way to solve the drug problem is trying to understand WHY people initially start taking drugs.

That is very true. If we can get to the heart of the matter as to why, it becomes much easier to rectify. Many times I think that is the key to recovery. Understanding why someone is compelled to destroy themselves by consuming drugs or alcohol. In my experience it is always one of a combination of 2 things--self esteem issues and genetic predisposition. The second of which I think is less an actual genetic thing and more of a "I watched my father drink every day for 25 years growing up so that is what I am gonna do" thing. Anyway, if this is to be made better it will be an issue where many people will have to work together and make it happen. Hard to really see that happening in today's political climate.

 

[Bill Derington]

http://www.bloomberg.com/view/articles/2015-08-04/obama-didn-t-kill-coal-the-market-did

Government regulations are what has caused the decline in coal, now we can argue why those have been put in place all day long.
Thats the reason Natural gas suddenly became a hot commodity worth the increased cost, and it is more or equal to coal under current regulations, it wasn't prior.

I work at a natural gas fired power plant, so trust me, I'm glad gas is being used more often.
However, I've seen gas price swing wildly in the past, and if we get too many eggs in one basket especially with the power grid, we can get in trouble quickly.

 

[crazyqx83_rivals88013]

I wasn't gonna comment further.. But, this dude is testing me.

How many years did you work in the production side of coal? Just curios..

Your graph of the decline in workers is flawed, doesn't explain the full story. I'll say that right now. Because if you wanna talk coal and how it works, we can, if you wanna talk coal and figure the numbers we can. I can unload on your non coal working ***. If you wanna go this route we can. How are people like us able to wander on the interwebs with our eastern ky education, we can go there. Your move son.. I may own your *** from this point

So you have to work in coal to even comment on the industry?

I guess the merits of the discussion are over. Since I don't work in coal.....................

It's incredibly sad the dependency mentality that EKY lives under. That if you all can't live under the full control of the coal master, that you're gonna lash out at everyone who questions that.

Fact is, coal gradually started shifting west 50 years ago and has gone to equipment removal that requires less labor. Sorry that these facts attack you intellectually and emotionally.

 

[crazyqx83_rivals88013]

Your chart only goes to 1980, the 90's were the peak, the early 2000's it was falling, but still above the average.
I don't know what it was before 1980 from that chart, but the highest peak was the time the man said.
The bottom has fallen out since Obama took office.

Here is production vs. employment since 1979
in EKY:

Here is straight employment:

I mean... I'm no fan of Obama, but it's really ******* sad that EKY has let an industry rape them for 100+ years and then started blaming a man 2 years into his term for destroying their economy, all while begging for their slavemaster back. It's so ironic, it's almost unfathomable.

Boogity, Boogity, Boogity, Boogity, BOO!

 

[Bill Derington]

Lets take a closer look at this chart with employment in KY, and the chart you posted on the first page of employment in the US in mining.

During Obama's tenure total miners in the US have stayed roughly the same number, while KY's has dropped significantly, much higher by your graph than historically, and the graph stops 3 years ago, so we don't get true picture of it as of now.

Also going by the chart, when Obama took office there were roughly 12000 people employed in KY in the coal business. In 4 years that dropped to roughly 7000, again that doesnt include the 3 years since then. So off the top my head it looks like in Obama's first 4 years 40% of KY citizens employed by coal lost their job.

 

[crazyqx83_rivals88013]

Lets take a closer look at this chart with employment in KY, and the chart you posted on the first page of employment in the US in mining.

During Obama's tenure total miners in the US have stayed roughly the same number, while KY's has dropped significantly, much higher by your graph than historically, and the graph stops 3 years ago, so we don't get true picture of it as of now.

Also going by the chart, when Obama took office there were roughly 12000 people employed in KY in the coal business. In 4 years that dropped to roughly 7000, again that doesnt include the 3 years since then. So off the top my head it looks like in Obama's first 4 years 40% of KY citizens employed by coal lost their job.

I mean... What's the point in even having this discussion if you are going to completely ignore the fact that coal jobs went from 35k to 12k between 1979 and 2009?

The poster said that eky was booming in the 90s and 2000s, due to coal. I've clearly refuted that and now you're making some irrelevant argument that Obama sped up the death of an already dying industry......? That's like saying the doctors at Parkland Memorial killed JFK. These arguments are asinine.

 

[Bill Derington]

I never said they didn't go down during that time frame, but since coal production actually went up or stayed the same for most of that period that drop was due to trchnology advancing in all likelihood.

You're chart on production stops in 2006, while employment stops 2013.

Look, there is no way in hell you can say with a straight face Obama hasn't hampered the coal industry. The man said he was going to before he was elected, and going by your dated charts, in his first 4 years he did just that.

 

[Bill Derington]

They'll find a way to use coal again in some fashion. Either by necessity or a cleaner way. Too much of it just sitting there, and too much money in the energy sector.