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Is it time to end our relationship with China?

HagginHall1999

HagginHall1999

Heisman
Oct 19, 2018
15,812
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Trying to avoid the political squabble.

Regardless if Dem or Rep, I think it may be time to realize this relationship needs to change.

We need to get through this and as a country realize that the world has changed exponentially.

Manufacturing needs to be done in our country, period.

We should not be so reliant on any one country, in particular a communist country.

I will save some of my other opinions regarding travel, open door policies and immigration.

All I am saying is control the controllables. We cannot control what China or any other country does, but we 100% can control what we do.

Regardless of where this disease came from if it is a virus from an animal or it was man made, it didn't start here.

We need to change as a country because I want our kids to live a fruitful life, not like this, not in fear.
 
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lincoln

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Nov 15, 2006
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Swine Flu originated here. Just because it didn't this time doesn't mean future serious pandemics can't begin right here in the US. Closing off any contact with China wouldn't have prevented Coronavirus getting here via Europe either.
 
HagginHall1999

HagginHall1999

Heisman
Oct 19, 2018
15,812
28,209
113
LincolnBlue said:
Swine Flu originated here. Just because it didn't this time doesn't mean future serious pandemics can't begin right here in the US. Closing off any contact with China wouldn't have prevented Coronavirus getting here via Europe either.
Click to expand...

Fair...I thought it was Mexico though. My overarching point is more about reliance on China for products.
 
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ganner918_rivals60369

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Mar 13, 2004
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As long as there is international travel, both for business and for pleasure, diseases are going to spread worldwide regardless of where they originate. Diseases have spread across the world for centuries.

Being reliant on outside sources - particularly possibly hostile or at least rival states - for critical infrastructure items is not wise, though. But we're not putting the cat back in the bag on economic globalization, any more than people could turn back the clock on the industrial revolution.
 
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KopiKat

All-Conference
Nov 2, 2006
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HagginHall1999 said:
Trying to avoid the political squabble.

Regardless if Dem or Rep, I think it may be time to realize this relationship needs to change.

We need to get through this and as a country realize that the world has changed exponentially.

Manufacturing needs to be done in our country, period.

We should not be so reliant on any one country, in particular a communist country.

I will save some of my other opinions regarding travel, open door policies and immigration.

All I am saying is control the controllables. We cannot control what China or any other country does, but we 100% can control what we do.

Regardless of where this disease came from if it is a virus from an animal or it was man made, it didn't start here.

We need to change as a country because I want our kids to live a fruitful life, not like this, not in fear.
Click to expand...
Sure thing, great idea. But in all fairness how in Christ are Democrats supposed to get elected if they can't take money from the Chinese? Not trying to make this a political discussion either, but you're talking about not just tipping the scales in favor of Republicans, you're talking about eliminating Democrats from measure. Nobody even knows how much the Chinese influenced the elections in 92 and 96. The 2.8 million in illegal contributions from Chinese Communists (thank you Mr. Huang) that the DNC very reluctantly returned and without penalty, much less public or media scrutiny, was only a sprinkling of the overall. I mean, it is really no wonder Bill Clinton let their spy Wen Ho Lee go free on a ******** technicality, after having stolen sensitive nuclear secrets from Los Alamos. Multiple millions upon millions in illegal campaign contributions from communist China mattered back then. But certainly not in the same sense that innuendo over YouTube videos, Russian "tampering" matters now. Jesus, how hard is this to understand? The whole idea of allowing a corrupt foreign government to weasel influence on a Presidential election is so that when it ACTUALLY DOES HAPPEN (and it has . . . friends of Bill), it gets the Democrats IN and keeps the other people OUT.
 
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vhcat70

Heisman
Feb 5, 2003
57,418
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ganner918 said:
Being reliant on outside sources - particularly possibly hostile or at least rival states - for critical infrastructure items is not wise, though. But we're not putting the cat back in the bag on economic globalization, any more than people could turn back the clock on the industrial revolution.
Click to expand...
We need multiple source countries with just about everything critical produced partially/mostly in USMCA. Add Brits when we get trade agreement with them.
 
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LineSkiCat14

LineSkiCat14

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Aug 5, 2015
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HagginHall1999 said:
Fair...I thought it was Mexico though. My overarching point is more about reliance on China for products.
Click to expand...

Well the US acted as best we could with the Swine Flu. China did not. I'm not saying to cut off ties just because they had a pandemic, that **** will happen. But they gave zero ***** about containing it, lied about their numbers.

China is out for China. And yes, I guess every country is, to an extent. But there's deals to be had and ways of doing things that benefit both parties.

This isn't just China vs the US.. this is China vs Everyone.
 
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TortElvisII

TortElvisII

Heisman
May 7, 2010
51,232
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Your commie has no regard for human life, even his own.

 
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KopiKat

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Nov 2, 2006
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ganner918 said:
The hell you aren't
Click to expand...
No kidding. Can't apologize for approaching a topic (China) that cannot be approached politically neutral. I would love to fill a warehouse full of non-political ideas for how the US could re-distance itself from communist China. It isn't possible. We went to bed with those people in the 90s, and back when we had them on the hook, let them go. Literally, and factually, Bill Clinton forgave one-half trillion dollars China owed to the American people, an amount of money that can achieve miraculous wonders in Red China, particularly then. They have been on the upswing from the moment since. People can hate that talk, but it does not stop it from being fact.
 
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Gassy_Knowls

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KopiKat said:
No kidding. Can't apologize for approaching a topic (China) that cannot be approached politically neutral. I would love to fill a warehouse full of non-political ideas for how the US could re-distance itself from communist China. It isn't possible. We went to bed with those people in the 90s, and back when we had them on the hook, let them go. Literally, and factually, Bill Clinton forgave one-half trillion dollars China owed to the American people, an amount of money that can achieve miraculous wonders in Red China, particularly then. They have been on the upswing from the moment since. People can hate that talk, but it does not stop it from being fact.
Click to expand...


After Bill....


 
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wildcatsboston1984_rivals

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Mar 23, 2012
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WildcatfaninOhio said:
We can’t possibly make everything we consume.
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And even if we could, the vast majority of people wouldn't be able to afford it or would have to significantly limit the quantity of their purchasing - which frankly that wouldn't necessarily be a bad thing. But clothing and shoes would get very expensive compared to what we are used to. I like wearing just plain colored t-shirts you can get for a few bucks at Walmart because they are comfortable, practical, and cheap. Things would probably skyrocket up to like $15-20+ if made in the USA. Poor and the middle class already struggle enough as it is. I have zero faith in business owners raising their wages to account for the increase in the cost of goods given how so many refuse to pay a living wage even now. At least with the small businesses it is understandable, but if you really can't afford to pay more than $10 an hour with little to no benefits, how sustainable of a business do you really have? For the big corporations where CEOs and other executives are making multiple millions a year and the owner is raking in billions every year while being cheap on wages for their working class employees, only thing that's going to make them do anything different is the law forcing them to, and well we've seen how that has gone when places have tried to raise the minimum wage...
 
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John Henry

John Henry

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Aug 18, 2007
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WildcatfaninOhio said:
We can’t possibly make everything we consume.
Click to expand...
True but there are other parts of the world than can take the place of China. We have made a commie, oppressive country rich with our stupidity and also made a lot of very prominent politicians extremely wealthy.

I go out of my way not to buy anything from China including NIKE shoes and clothing apparel. It is not easy but there are options. One thing I never under any circumstances buy from China is food. No way. Not to mention the junk they send over is made by slave labor.
 
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KopiKat

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wildcatsboston1984 said:
And even if we could, the vast majority of people wouldn't be able to afford it or would have to significantly limit the quantity of their purchasing - which frankly that wouldn't necessarily be a bad thing. But clothing and shoes would get very expensive compared to what we are used to. I like wearing just plain colored t-shirts you can get for a few bucks at Walmart because they are comfortable, practical, and cheap. Things would probably skyrocket up to like $15-20+ if made in the USA. Poor and the middle class already struggle enough as it is. I have zero faith in business owners raising their wages to account for the increase in the cost of goods given how so many refuse to pay a living wage even now. At least with the small businesses it is understandable, but if you really can't afford to pay more than $10 an hour with little to no benefits, how sustainable of a business do you really have? For the big corporations where CEOs and other executives are making multiple millions a year and the owner is raking in billions every year while being cheap on wages for their working class employees, only thing that's going to make them do anything different is the law forcing them to, and well we've seen how that has gone when places have tried to raise the minimum wage...
Click to expand...
Oh, good grief . . . Indeed, yes. The loathsome poor and ubiquitous middle class, forever struggling "enough as it is". Almost precisely that same sector of the population who, until the very early to middle 1990s, enjoyed reliable employment in textile manufacturing operations all across this country. An entire industry, wiped clean, vanished, *poof* . . . in a matter of single-digit years from the American landscape. And now, the affordability of those very same products must be discussed by dwelling only on a current condition and not on how that condition got here. Marvelous.
 
Rebelfreedomeagle

Rebelfreedomeagle

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Feb 24, 2017
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KopiKat said:
Sure thing, great idea. But in all fairness how in Christ are Democrats supposed to get elected if they can't take money from the Chinese? Not trying to make this a political discussion either, but you're talking about not just tipping the scales in favor of Republicans, you're talking about eliminating Democrats from measure. Nobody even knows how much the Chinese influenced the elections in 92 and 96. The 2.8 million in illegal contributions from Chinese Communists (thank you Mr. Huang) that the DNC very reluctantly returned and without penalty, much less public or media scrutiny, was only a sprinkling of the overall. I mean, it is really no wonder Bill Clinton let their spy Wen Ho Lee go free on a ******** technicality, after having stolen sensitive nuclear secrets from Los Alamos. Multiple millions upon millions in illegal campaign contributions from communist China mattered back then. But certainly not in the same sense that innuendo over YouTube videos, Russian "tampering" matters now. Jesus, how hard is this to understand? The whole idea of allowing a corrupt foreign government to weasel influence on a Presidential election is so that when it ACTUALLY DOES HAPPEN (and it has . . . friends of Bill), it gets the Democrats IN and keeps the other people OUT.
Click to expand...
Bill's hair was darker then.
 
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wildcatsboston1984_rivals

All-American
Mar 23, 2012
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KopiKat said:
Oh, good grief . . . Indeed, yes. The loathsome poor and ubiquitous middle class, forever struggling "enough as it is". Almost precisely that same sector of the population who, until the very early to middle 1990s, enjoyed reliable employment in textile manufacturing operations all across this country. An entire industry, wiped clean, vanished, *poof* . . . in a matter of single-digit years from the American landscape. And now, the affordability of those very same products must be discussed by dwelling only on a current condition and not on how that condition got here. Marvelous.
Click to expand...
[eyeroll]
 
LineSkiCat14

LineSkiCat14

Heisman
Aug 5, 2015
37,310
57,150
113
I want to follow up by saying, we can't just "end" our relationship with China. That obviously wouldn't be good. But we have to keep them in check. Whether you like Trump or not... it was necessary for him to tighten the screws on China. Whoever the next president is, needs to do the same... from Trade to IP Theft to the Environment.
 
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KopiKat

All-Conference
Nov 2, 2006
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WildcatfaninOhio said:
We can’t possibly make everything we consume.
Click to expand...
If energy independence is a legitimate liberal vision then the vast quantities of worthless, useless, landfill destined crap brought into this country from China should be easier to see than the biggest nose is at the end of the smallest face.
 
S

shutzhund

All-Conference
Nov 19, 2005
29,202
2,619
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wildcatsboston1984 said:
And even if we could, the vast majority of people wouldn't be able to afford it or would have to significantly limit the quantity of their purchasing - which frankly that wouldn't necessarily be a bad thing. But clothing and shoes would get very expensive compared to what we are used to. I like wearing just plain colored t-shirts you can get for a few bucks at Walmart because they are comfortable, practical, and cheap. Things would probably skyrocket up to like $15-20+ if made in the USA. Poor and the middle class already struggle enough as it is. I have zero faith in business owners raising their wages to account for the increase in the cost of goods given how so many refuse to pay a living wage even now. At least with the small businesses it is understandable, but if you really can't afford to pay more than $10 an hour with little to no benefits, how sustainable of a business do you really have? For the big corporations where CEOs and other executives are making multiple millions a year and the owner is raking in billions every year while being cheap on wages for their working class employees, only thing that's going to make them do anything different is the law forcing them to, and well we've seen how that has gone when places have tried to raise the minimum wage...
Click to expand...

Go dig up Jimmy Hoffa and ask him.
 
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