Is the USC coaching job a better job today than it was six years ago?

[TroyBill]

While it is a top job. The administration has not helped to make it this way. Folt is not Steve Sample, Norman Topping, John Hubbard, or James Zumberge. They have hired some pretty bad ADs which have not helped. We should have the pic of the litter in CA. This is not the case anymore because the players are not stupid and see what is going on here. Additionally, all of the recent scandals that have popped up have not helped. It is a job with a lot of high expectations from the fans that place immediate pressure on the coach. The McKays and Carrols are rare breeds. That being said, winning erases a lot of concern...IMO

 

[Pudly76]

On Gameday, Reese Davis just commented that USC has a reputation out there of being "thrifty". Ouch. They touched on the difficulties of that paradigm and the cost of living in Southern California.

They also brought up the point that during Pete Carroll's success, USC was the only game in town. The Dodgers were not in national contention and we didn't have a pro football team. The Dodgers are now contenders and there are 2 pro football teams.

USC has to find a way to recruit beyond the concept that we have great weather and beaches and mountains. I can't recall any stories or pictures of players heading up to big bear or mammoth. Sure they go to the beach. But when recruits, as Gameday said, "leave skid marks out of the state" to head to places like Clemson and Alabama, then nice weather, girls, and the beach may not be enough.

Screw espn and their twisted, self serving narrative. They have a vested financial interest in the success of the ACC and sec.

 

[Realitycheck.usc]

IOn Gameday, Reese Davis just commented that USC has a reputation out there of being "thrifty". Ouch. They touched on the difficulties of that paradigm and the cost of living in Southern California.

They also brought up the point that during Pete Carroll's success, USC was the only game in town. The Dodgers were not in national contention and we didn't have a pro football team. The Dodgers are now contenders and there are 2 pro football teams.

USC has to find a way to recruit beyond the concept that we have great weather and beaches and mountains. I can't recall any stories or pictures of players heading up to big bear or mammoth. Sure they go to the beach. But when recruits, as Gameday said, "leave skid marks out of the state" to head to places like Clemson and Alabama, then nice weather, girls, and the beach may not be enough.

Havent I been saying all along that sc is cheap. Well now that Reese agrees maybe many doubters here will start believeing that what i say is often correct.

 

[ScottSchrader]

In the end, it comes down to the leadership inside Heritage Hall on this topic. USC finally pulled its head out of its rear regarding dedicating resources to the football program. I've written several articles on just new hires since the blowout Holiday Bowl loss to Iowa.

It was embarrassing where USC was at with just recruiting support staff a few years ago.

A support staffer sent me these photos in December 2019 and I shared them on Twitter. Gives you a pretty decent perspective.

 

[uscvball]

Screw espn and their twisted, self serving narrative. They have a vested financial interest in the success of the ACC and sec.

I figured somebody would dismiss the message simply because of the messenger. Nothing they said was untrue.

 

[Pudly76]

I figured somebody would dismiss the message simply because of the messenger. Nothing they said was untrue.

With all due respect..
Nothing they said is/was applicable if we had a good coach. Didn’t happen with Pete, John not JRob…
You ever notice how recruits going east and south or north get a bump in their espn rankings and those staying/coming here slide?

 

[The Garage Mahal]

A lot of you seem to have missed the detail of the original question.

Is USC an attractive job? Of course. But is it a more attractive job than six and a half years ago, when the last coaching search was done?

On balance, I say yes.
- SC finally stepped to the plate in support staff. @ScottSchrader 's tweet above is so embarrassing and gave Helton an excuse to underachieve
- They went over the top in building out a class leading NIL capability, and while others will catch up in this regard, I believe the local industry cannot be replicated by anyone except UCLA, and the school across town has plenty of other structural issues.
- Many of you cite the ambivalence from alumni. I don't buy it. Build a winner, and they will come. I don't believe for a second that this town, and SC fans in particular, would turn up their noses on a contender if the next coach got one cooking.
- Transfer rules play in SC's favor

The main drawbacks that have raised their ugly head in the last six years mainly revolve around recruiting, and I think the damage there is more permanent. Not only has Oregon become a true rival, but national powers have created relationships and inroads at local pipelines. Those won't be weakened easily, and we'll continue to have to fend off big national programs for players we probably were locks for in prior years. A player like Justin Flowe, leaving, or the Mater Dei exodus, are inductive of a larger problem for talent acquisition.

 

[ScottSchrader]

Nothing they said is/was applicable if we had a good coach. Didn’t happen with Pete, John not JRob…
You ever notice how recruits going east and south or north get a bump in their espn rankings and those staying/coming here slide?

I actually talk often to coaches from schools in every Power 5 Conference. So, I'm not guessing at how USC was perceived and how it is now.

I had coaches asking if USC was hurting financially only a few years ago. Not sure how anyone would've concluded otherwise with how cheap SC was. But three of those guys who asked about USC are now on staff.

Donte Williams was the highest paid position coach in the nation. USC had all but signed a 2mil per year contract with Dave Aranda last winter before he took the open Baylor head coach gig. I've seen words become actions over and over again with Mike Bohn and Brandon Sosna.

 

[uscvball]

With all due respect..
Nothing they said is/was applicable if we had a good coach. Didn’t happen with Pete, John not JRob…
You ever notice how recruits going east and south or north get a bump in their espn rankings and those staying/coming here slide?

As I pointed out when Pete was here, the Dodgers were always in the cellar and there was no NFL team. That is not the case today. The NIL market in Southern California is diluted.

The TV market has changed significantly since any of those men were coaching at USC. We do not have a TV contract that favors the conference, nor USC.

Do any of those players whose rankings increase, get worse when they leave California? Or do they get developed and get better? Are they playing against better competition and becoming better themselves? Are teams in those areas putting players on NFL rosters?

To what extent can one good coach at USC reverse the trend of success in other conferences? What game today will get more eyeballs....USC at wazzu or Bama at Florida?

 

[Gold Trojan]

In the end, it comes down to the leadership inside Heritage Hall on this topic. USC finally pulled its head out of its rear regarding dedicating resources to the football program. I've written several articles on just new hires since the blowout Holiday Bowl loss to Iowa.

It was embarrassing where USC was at with just recruiting support staff a few years ago.

A support staffer sent me these photos in December 2019 and I shared them on Twitter. Gives you a pretty decent perspective.

This.

USC has marginally decreased the emphasis it places on “low brow” sports over the past 15 years.

Until our administration views USC football as more than a recreational sideline, we will not achieve top 5/10 status year in and out.

Schools like Alabama, Clemson, Oklahoma, Ohio St., and now Oregon are pouring tons of cash into their programs. And, they are seeing a return of both revenue and program prominence.

 

[ScottSchrader]

We need to start conveying to the rest of CFB that football is a priority here…we’ve failed at that recently.

Local prep coaches were telling their elite players to leave the state - Hard to find fault. But I can tell you that started to change the past 18 months or so. But as long as Clay was head coach, a significant number of kids didn't have confidence in USC. It was another issue on top of the previous poor leadership in the AD office.

This coaching search will be extremely interesting for all of us. I don't a clue where its headed as of now, but I have good reason to believe they'll ultimately get it right this time.

 

[Pudly76]

As I pointed out when Pete was here, the Dodgers were always in the cellar and there was no NFL team. That is not the case today. The NIL market in Southern California is diluted.

The TV market has changed significantly since any of those men were coaching at USC. We do not have a TV contract that favors the conference, nor USC.

Do any of those players whose rankings increase, get worse when they leave California? Or do they get developed and get better? Are they playing against better competition and becoming better themselves? Are teams in those areas putting players on NFL rosters?

To what extent can one good coach at USC reverse the trend of success in other conferences? What game today will get more eyeballs....USC at wazzu or Bama at Florida?

They don’t need to reverse the trend except by increasing the roster talent, and a good coach WILL. It’s not about them, it’s about us. When we are good, it doesn’t matter how good Ok, Auburn, tosu or anyone else is. A high school kids ranking shouldn’t be dependent on his destination. It is based on his potential. And especially in the days of transfer portal, a kid who starts one place may not end there anyway.

 

[uscvball]

They don’t need to reverse the trend except by increasing the roster talent, and a good coach WILL. It’s not about them, it’s about us. When we are good, it doesn’t matter how good Ok, Auburn, tosu or anyone else is. A high school kids ranking shouldn’t be dependent on his destination. It is based on his potential. And especially in the days of transfer portal, a kid who starts one place may not end there anyway.

My only problem with your argument is that I think the outcome is dependent on a number of other factors. And at 1 time, a player's ranking was positively impacted when they went to USC in the good years. It goes both ways.

Shoulda, coulda, woulda....USC needs to deal with what IS.

And really your argument only works out IF USC makes the perfect hire. What if they don't?

 

[Pudly76]

My only problem with your argument is that I think the outcome is dependent on a number of other factors. And at 1 time, a player's ranking was positively impacted when they went to USC in the good years. It goes both ways.

Shoulda, coulda, woulda....USC needs to deal with what IS.

And really your argument only works out IF USC makes the perfect hire. What if they don't?

I get your points. My point is solely that espn is BIASED. Yeah not everyone goes to the beach, not everyone goes to ski resorts, hunting, fishing, swimming, river etc., but to those that do, it’s available. But those that want “the city life is the life for me” experience? You get that in tuscaloosa? Athens? Perhaps clemson? columbus? Ann arbor?
If there’s a way to take a preemptive shot at USC, espn is first in line to take it.

 

[Bogey Bud]

you forgot 13% state income tax on salary.

totally meaningless. You just pay a higher salary to compensate. It's like Amazon "free shipping". You just charge more to cover shipping in the purchase price.

 

[559er]

6 years ago it was not that much different. The football culture of the folks in charge was in the crapper. It probably still is. Only AD is more capable of doing the job this time.

 

[655321]

It all comes down to how much the coach gets paid, resources provided to support winning and control.

 

[Nate Doggg]

Yes because the AD is better and we're far removed from snactions at this point. There are a lot of leftover issues to clean up with the undisciplined and bewildered nature of the previous head coach; but the new coach will absolutely be able to recruit his guys, establish his own culture, and actually build this thing the right way. This is a big reason why I want someone from outside the Trojan family. This needs a reboot of sort - not in terms of tradition, but in terms of repairing relationships, establishing a culture, getting the players who fit the culture and buy in to the vision, and developing the players you sign. Any one of us on this board could recruit talent to USC - that's not the problem. It's getting the RIGHT talent and DEVELOPING that talent, which is something the last head coach had ZERO clue about (along with pretty much everything else about football).

 

[uscvball]

I get your points. My point is solely that espn is BIASED. Yeah not everyone goes to the beach, not everyone goes to ski resorts, hunting, fishing, swimming, river etc., but to those that do, it’s available. But those that want “the city life is the life for me” experience? You get that in tuscaloosa? Athens? Perhaps clemson? columbus? Ann arbor?
If there’s a way to take a preemptive shot at USC, espn is first in line to take it.

For the top recruits, I don't think environment will play a factor nearly as much as future NFL $$$$. Who couldn't deal with 3 or 4 years in Clemson or Tuscaloosa if it resulted in a multi-million payout on draft day.

I guess city life is relative. There's big city like LA, Miami, Chicago. But there's college-town city and very few do it as well as Athens.

 

[big_pete]

I think being a media center might work against USC in terms of valuing NIL. There are lots of high Q rating athletic and entertainment personalties in which to invest ad dollars. The top player at Clemson/Alabama is a top personality across the South, along with Nashville musicians and Tom Brady.

..this times 1,000. I've been saying it since the whole NIL thing was first being considered: we are not nearly as well positioned as you'd think we are. The research has shown that when it comes to monetizing social media (what 99.9% of NIL will be), location just doesn't matter. And when it comes to the rare national commercial work, it all comes down to Q score.
What matters (for schools/athletes) are the two E's: engagement and eyeballs. Sadly, USC and its football players have neither. In fact, USC isn't even playing in the same league as most better D-1 programs. The top programs have 10, 15, and 20 times the followers, and the engagement metrics are even uglier. When Heritage Hall was trying to sell the idea of USC being the top social media program and the future NIL leader, it was laughable. We are so far behind that I worry whether we can ever even catch up. It is that bad.