Matt Jones took a call yesterday that brought up football, and Matt cut him off saying he didn't want to the caller to bring him down. Said that the football situation is worse than people know, but he can't talk about it right now. Anybody know what he's talking about?
Is there bad news coming?
- Thread starter SilentsAreGolden
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Matt was talking about Reese Phillips comments and what it indicates what was going on amongst coaches and players.
As far as I'm concerned the hire of Eddie Gran and Darin Hinshaw nullifies that bad news.
As far as I'm concerned the hire of Eddie Gran and Darin Hinshaw nullifies that bad news.
Bottom line is that hiring Shannon Dawson was a mistake and every person that speaks out about his firing (Towles and Philips) gives us a little more info of what the case was with the offense.
Shannon Dawson is a self centered person who couldn't get the job done. When he proved that, Stoops stepped in and Dawson got pouty. So he then started bad mouthing Stoops to certain players and caused the divide. I believe that to be true until someone with proven inside knowledge says otherwise. The more I read and hear, the more I believe Dawson should have been fired midseason.
I said in the last month of the season that the dysfunction on this team had to be really bad, worse than we could know, and likely included coach vs coach and not simply be a players divided issue. It's rare that I'm right, looks like I got lucky and hit the nail on this one. Heh....
In a team of 90-100 young men, you're always going to have a few who are unhappy about their (lack of) playing time, poor grades, girl trouble, etc.; but what we saw in the 2015 team was truly dysfunctional. Obviously Stoops is ultimately responsible for this, and I hate to call Towles and Phillips bad apples, but hopefully the malcontents will decide on their own they need to move on. If I'm Stoops, I would pretty much challenge anybody who's not "all in" to do just that.
Finally, at the risk of being all sappy and sentimental, hopefully the hiring of Gran (and Hinshaw?) will bring the team together.
Finally, at the risk of being all sappy and sentimental, hopefully the hiring of Gran (and Hinshaw?) will bring the team together.
I recall after snodgrass left Stoops indicated something along the lines of there would be more to follow... That quote sticks with me to a degree because of what the season turned into.
A lot of the issues starting to bubble up now predated Shannon Dawson joining the program. His offense woefully underperformed and he probably had to go, but he joined a pretty dysfunctional ship over at Nutter.
The wheels are wobbling on the whole regime. But what's new. It's Kentucky football.
The wheels are wobbling on the whole regime. But what's new. It's Kentucky football.
Dawson did not know many on the staff before his hire, but I believe Mainord and Dawson had a history. Both are now gone. Coincidence?
As a fan, while the offense frustrated the crap out of me, I really liked Dawson's personality. I think he will do well in the right spot.
I didn't realize the ship was dysfunctional before Dawson showed. We improved quite a bit with Brown.
Also, I didn't know UK had wheels. I thought the mechanics were still in the process of putting some on. Lol
I know you really support Stoops but I don't see that with Stoops and Dawson. First, all coaches are self centered. It kind of comes with the territory. I think there was a philosophy difference. That appeared as early as the first game. I think there was a QB issue.
These two just didn't gel and that's pretty obvious. I think Phillips and Towles taking the side of their QB coach should not be a surprise. OC/postion coaches and their players have a pretty unique bond. They are the ones that are together most of the time from practice to the film room. They are going to side with their position coach more times than not in a coaching change.
I think you had two guys who had two different personalities and I think after the ULL game when Stoops was a little critical of his playcalling in the 2nd half, Dawson had flashbacks of his days being under the head coach's thumb at WVU. I think that's why he wanted the UK job. He wanted to be orchestrating the offenses again. I think he thought he would get that here but he always had a leash and as the season went on that leash got shorter and shorter. You look at Dawson and Stoops, both hate to be questioned so it's easy to see why their relationship would sour quickly.
I'm not defending Dawson because I thought he did a poor job here. It's not all his fault I don't think, but even if he had a little better talent, I think he would of struggled because I think he was overwhelmed esp toward the end of the season. With Gran, the good thing is he's worked with him before, there's an established relationship so hopefully there's a little better relationship.
I think after the"14 season we had a couple in place but they fell off early in '15
I think you're on the mark.
What I don't understand is why didn't Stoops make more of a run at Gran last year?
Well, my views aren't due to me liking Stoops. As a coach myself I have seen this a few times. Most of the time, it is the assistant coach that is putting things into the heads of the players when they feel like can't be the lead guy. Your job as an assistant is to perform tasks based upon the direction of the head coach. I don't care if you agree with that direction or not. So, if Stoops told him that he wanted to emphasize one thing over another and Dawson didn't like it, tough crap. His job is to ASSIST, not be the head coach.
Dawson apparently had issues with that and decided to pout and cause team divide. That is what selfish people do and is the single worst thing that can take down a team.
If that were the case then it is a shame that it may have cost us one win, think about that for a minute, what did the lack of one win cost? Our program is not in a position to give away a chance at a win, it could send us in a whole other direction, to quote our buddy Pick Pitino(speaking on another subject)" it could set the program back 5 years"
It is probably best that Stoops keep his mouth shut and move on, but I almost wish he would tell his side of the story in public
(I think Rick said 10 years but we know how he overstates stuff)
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I don't know any inside scoops either, but i also think it is fair to say there are issues with this staff that go beyond a bad OC hire 12 months ago. Hopefully we are on track for all issues to be resolved. Brooks didn't start winning until he changed both his coordinators.
And IMO Stoops went after Dawson instead of Gran because he liked the power running WVU used out of the spread/air raid system.
And IMO Stoops went after Dawson instead of Gran because he liked the power running WVU used out of the spread/air raid system.
As others have said it's never one thing but combination some of which have cause and affects on the other. Here's some I think played a role.
As Freddie M said this morning, Dawson was new coordinator and while he had offensive knowledge he lacked the other traits to lead, train, discipline and organize his guys. That lead to chaos and later fraction. The guys thought he was great cause he buddied up with them but this team needed drilling and discipline and attention to detail and didn't get it from him IMO.
Dawsons personality is a little prickly when challenged and that probably set off a deeper divide when Stoops challenged him on some things.
Stoops also is a young coach and is more nice guy than general. He needs to work on being more matter of fact, in charge from the top to set the tone of work ethic, discipline, and "How" we do things. This doesn't mean meddling in the offense or defense but setting the tone of seriousness and discipline and no tolerance of nonsense going forward. The great coaches have this and I believe things got loose because there wasn't a fear and respect from the top. (See Saban or even Papaw for example).
Drew had his posse (Baker and others) and that was a natural cause of separation with Towles and others. Not blaming, just some guys bond with some guys, it's natural but has an affect. Don't think Towles or Phillips were bad apples at all, they were just outside the posse on offense and gravitated to the one person who showed them the most support - Dawson.
As Freddie M said this morning, Dawson was new coordinator and while he had offensive knowledge he lacked the other traits to lead, train, discipline and organize his guys. That lead to chaos and later fraction. The guys thought he was great cause he buddied up with them but this team needed drilling and discipline and attention to detail and didn't get it from him IMO.
Dawsons personality is a little prickly when challenged and that probably set off a deeper divide when Stoops challenged him on some things.
Stoops also is a young coach and is more nice guy than general. He needs to work on being more matter of fact, in charge from the top to set the tone of work ethic, discipline, and "How" we do things. This doesn't mean meddling in the offense or defense but setting the tone of seriousness and discipline and no tolerance of nonsense going forward. The great coaches have this and I believe things got loose because there wasn't a fear and respect from the top. (See Saban or even Papaw for example).
Drew had his posse (Baker and others) and that was a natural cause of separation with Towles and others. Not blaming, just some guys bond with some guys, it's natural but has an affect. Don't think Towles or Phillips were bad apples at all, they were just outside the posse on offense and gravitated to the one person who showed them the most support - Dawson.
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Obviously there was a split in the locker room but, I think the real truth may be that the split was being led by some coaches. That is a terrible thing to comprehend. A SEC program that was hijacked by one or two coaches, who then caused a major split in the team. All because of ego. The result is all this mess has set the program back at least 2 years.
I can summarize.
No one knows ****.
The end.
No one knows ****.
The end.
Stoops caused the divide. Stoops hired Dawson to run the offense and as the year went on Stoops took more control away from him, just as he did Brown. Our offense melted down after the half way point because Stoops couldn't keep out of it. Dawson ultimately became the fall guy. If your an OC and you don't agree with the direction the HC is taking the O you have an obligation to yourself to speak up because if it doesn't work your going to be the fall guy. I agree you ultimately do what the boss wants but you better document your disagreement to fall back on at your next interview.
I do find it interesting that Dawson recommended Phillips to Montana where his friend is the HC. I know Brown really liked what he saw in Phillips and I guess Dawson did too. To bad Stoops didn't give him more reason to stick around. But here again I don't think Stoops is any good as a HC. Maybe or hopefully he will prove me wrong soon.
Stoops did not limit Brown. There is no evidence of that at all. Just something that someone made up on this board.
And no, the OC should say anything to players. Of he has an issue then that is something he and the head guy need to discuss privately. But at the end of the day, he needs adjust to the direction of the head coach. If he doesn't, that causes divide.
And the offense was bad before the halfway point. So, that doesn't really fit the argument that it got bad when Stoops stepped in. It was bad because Dawson refused to follow the direction of the head coach. Hence, the reason he is fired.
Brown didnt have the horses to run his offense here. Not Stoops fault there. Dawson didnt have what it takes and neither did your boy Phillips.
Don't think we'll know the whole truth for a few years.
This team has enough weapons on o to score more and move the ball better than what Dawson did. No creativity or setting up plays. Yes the players dropped passes and missed blocks but then he never tried something different or used players strengths to our advantage.
Dawson will learn from this and be successful down the road but it was wrong time wrong match.
This team has enough weapons on o to score more and move the ball better than what Dawson did. No creativity or setting up plays. Yes the players dropped passes and missed blocks but then he never tried something different or used players strengths to our advantage.
Dawson will learn from this and be successful down the road but it was wrong time wrong match.
True, which is why I never put much stock in player reaction when a coach leaves, or when someone already on staff is chosen to replace the just departed head coach and all the returning players cheer wildly (e.g., USC and Missouri). They love it because they like they guy, not because he's necessarily the best coach. Relationships are worth something, granted, but not as much as other things.....
People here love to think Stoops meddles too much in the offense. If true, and maybe it is, I'm hoping that was because Dawson was a first time playcaller and Stoops was just hesitant to completely turn over the offense to someone that green, and further that with Gran he'll let go of the reigns.
Merriman - I wanted to think the same thing. However, after dinner with some friends very close to the situation, I now believe Stoops throttled what Brown wanted to do. I don't think it was to the level some on here make it out to be.
Hey, head coaches have to make decisions on what they want done on both sides of the ball. However, when you hire a coordinator who's known for specific things you must expect them to continue with their philosophy.
I'm a Stoops fan (I just want UK football to be successful) and think Stoops has the one thing that many before him haven't had, and that's the ability to recruit. Stoops has a lot to learn as a HC. However, I think the reason you now see Gran's title as "Head Coach of the Offense" is it was the only way he would come. I'm guessing MB brokered a deal (between friends) that gives Gran full control of the offense. This could go very well. If it stripped away power from HC it will eventually bite us in the butt. As one coach in this thread has already said, "assistants are called upon to follow the direction given from the HC." I hope Stoops has ultimate decision making authority, but I also hope he trusts the people he's hired to do their jobs.
Posse? Baker let his "boy" Barker get a cheap shot from the eku player and didn't even help him up. Baker is Bakers boy and everyone else is his #$*&%'s!
Well...I was the coach in this thread that said that. Every coach will limit his assistants to some degree as they will not agree on every little thing. At the end of the day, the head coaches plan wins out. That is far cry from "meddling", or "keeping the OC from being successful" as many on here try to point out.
Brown got the freedom to run just about anything he wanted. I believe that the player personnel dictated more of what Brown could do than Stoops.
Its tough for defensive minded head coaches to let OCs open up their offense. They just don't want the offense to put their defense in a bad position either by turnovers or having consecutive 3 and outs. They want the offense to control the ball, get first downs and score TDs It was Muschamp's undoing at UF, he kept bringing in spread OCs, maybe he was told to do so, but he didn't want to run a spread offense. Saban was a power offense, running the ball and throwing very little at the start of Bama's run. Its my biggest concern about Smart, we didn't hire a spread OC but if he is willing open the offense enough to be somewhat balanced.
I hear Stoops is very hands on during practice/games even when Brown was the OC. I think Dawson had a very short leash after that ULL game and to be very honest, I don't think they ever meshed after that Jekyll and Hyde game. I think Dawson out thought himself a lot and that probably had to do with the fact his head coach was looking over shoulder or at least he thought he was.
When it came to Brown, I heard rumors of Brown wanting to air it out more but personal got in the way. Stoops has always wanted to keep it more balanced and as the year went on, Brown looked like he began to doubt in Towles and got ultra conservative but I also heard rumblings that Stoops wanted to get more conservative anyway and was pushing for that. All in all, I just think personal and the allure of a head coaching position made Brown worse here than he was. I'm hoping with Gran Stoops just lets him do his thing and just becomes a head coach. I think the guy has too many balls in the air during games and that leads to a lot of the mistakes we see.
Well, the issues never came up to my knowledge till SD showed up, so if they existed, they were pretty minimal. Net, I'll tend to believe SD lit the fuse till proven otherwise.
Let's hope, but I can't dismiss the OP's thoughts. It sure doesn't sound good does it when player's transfer and diss the staff. Not something any still hopeful fan likes to hear. I think Stoops is struggling with never being an HC, a job far more encompassing and one that involves way more talents than being a DC does. I believe he's truly committed to trying to bring UK football to a new level, and I'm still hoping he can. Next season I believe will be the turning point one way or the other.
And I would tell Patrick Towles to his face he should have jumped at the chance to go to CSU. Instead Bauta took that gamble. You see the Rams may be only at the level of say WKU, but they have something UK football doesn't. Pride! Don't be shocked when you see him leading his 10-2 or 11-1 team into a championship game and bowl.
"Head Coach of the Offense". First I've heard of it and if so look out because this situation sounds like Head Coach in Waiting. It won't friggin work and whoever's idea it might be is a blithering idiot. Talk about dividing players and staff this would be the perfect scenario.
Gran is not that solid. An OC in a weak conference. Not the home run some people are fantasizing over. A long term contract and a wedge dividing the team. I detect Mitch's clumsy hand ruining whatever progress has been made. No matter the back slapping, smiles and hand shakes this is going to be one train wreck of a marriage if it happens.
Should it be and if Mitch is involved the guys presently slobbering all over his feet should check their memories. He is the same guy that starved football for years and had a gun to his head before he grudgingly made changes because the fans boycotted ticket sales.
Bran may well be an empty promise bought at a high cost and I don't mean just his salary.
That weak conference had better performing teams than the SEC East did. Not to mention he's worked at Tennessee and Florida State too so it's not like he's some newbie.
And yes let's blame Mitch for yet another imaginary thing that he's supposedly responsible for. Mitch is the guy who got us a coach who got UK to 5 consecutive bowl games, the first time in UK history. He didn't starve a football program that was already malnourished when he got here. His hands were tied when the economy tanked in 2007/2008 and there's alot more to getting projects approved than just saying YES. And he fired Joker after 3 years, not sure what else he should have done. You just don't fire a guy after 1 bad season(they went bowling his first year) when they are an alumni and former player who gave everything to UK.
Can't wait for the day when guys like you disappear because there's little negative crap to talk about. Sad that so many are openly rooting for Stoops to fail now. But that is UK football in a nutshell.
For me it all boils down to playing time. The year before last Stooos did not have the players to replace those not capable. Barker was redshirted and Phillps was injured so He had to stick with Towles and others even as the team loss their last six.
Last year as Stoops began the process of taking away playing time and giving his young players starting positions over upperclassmen those losing playing time were resentful.
Coupled with the fact that Towles was actually playing worse then the year before and Dawson's play calling sucked I'm sure those that lost their starting spots were questioning why Towles was still in his.
Dawson probably sided with Towles and that created more resentment. Being new he probably played both sides with the kids who were upset which made it worse.
Nothing more then sour grapes by upperclassmen over losing starting positions and playing time which is one of the biggest issues in a locker room as players take sides.
Next year will be a fresh start for those who want to wear the blue.
Last year as Stoops began the process of taking away playing time and giving his young players starting positions over upperclassmen those losing playing time were resentful.
Coupled with the fact that Towles was actually playing worse then the year before and Dawson's play calling sucked I'm sure those that lost their starting spots were questioning why Towles was still in his.
Dawson probably sided with Towles and that created more resentment. Being new he probably played both sides with the kids who were upset which made it worse.
Nothing more then sour grapes by upperclassmen over losing starting positions and playing time which is one of the biggest issues in a locker room as players take sides.
Next year will be a fresh start for those who want to wear the blue.