It’s the Jimmies and Joes

[Phlebitis]

Both Bama and Georgia look to be fielding full NFL offensive and defensive lines. Landing the best quarterback every year not withstanding, the dominant line play is the most glaringly obvious reason for their superiority. Not many teams have a single lineman as good as anyone on their offensive or defensive lines. They just absolutely overwhelm and swallow the opposition on nearly every play at the line. I don’t care how good your play design is, I might have a better strategy than Mike Tyson but it doesn’t mean he won’t beat my ***. With those players Franklin could make his clock management gaffes like Georgia did before the half and it absolutely wouldn’t matter they are so physically dominant. I mean it might against Alabama next week but it wouldn’t against Indiana. As far as the playoffs go, not much has changed. The BCS and the playoffs used to be about who would be Bama’s sacrificial lamb. The only difference now is that Georgia has entered the fray.

 

[GregInPitt]

Yep, while getting top rated QB's and a couple of top 15 RB's every year seems great, maybe a better plan would be to recruit 6 olinemen every class so that the competition amongst them to play would yield a better OL than what Franklin has been able to put on the field the last 8 years.

Some how Franklin and Trautwein must improve the play of the OL for PSU to eventually be a top 10 team with a legit chance to not only get into the playoff but to actually be competitive in a playoff game............

 

[Nitt1300]

Yep, while getting top rated QB's and a couple of top 15 RB's every year seems great, maybe a better plan would be to recruit 6 olinemen and every class so that the competition amongst them to play would yield a better OL than what Franklin has been able to put on the field the last 8 years.

Some how Franklin and Trautwein must improve the play of the OL for PSU to eventually be a top 10 team with a legit chance to not only get into the playoff but to actually be competitive in a playoff game............

I continue to believe in Franklin, but I also agree with this- and I'm sure he would too. If he is unable to get this done over the next couple of seasons, my support will evaporate.

 

[s1uggo72]

Both Bama and Georgia look to be fielding full NFL offensive and defensive lines. Landing the best quarterback every year not withstanding, the dominant line play is the most glaringly obvious reason for their superiority. Not many teams have a single lineman as good as anyone on their offensive or defensive lines. They just absolutely overwhelm and swallow the opposition on nearly every play at the line. I don’t care how good your play design is, I might have a better strategy than Mike Tyson but it doesn’t mean he won’t beat my ***. With those players Franklin could make his clock management gaffes like Georgia did before the half and it absolutely wouldn’t matter they are so physically dominant. I mean it might against Alabama next week but it wouldn’t against Indiana. As far as the playoffs go, not much has changed. The BCS and the playoffs used to be about who would be Bama’s sacrificial lamb. The only difference now is that Georgia has entered the fray.

All good points. Now have you looked at who coaches them?? Let me just say it ain’t some guy with Davidson college as his second most important coaching stop on his resume

 

[tailgator]

There's no doubt that the top teams have way more athletic d linemen than PSU has had since Franklin has been here, but I really believe a lot of our O line problems can be traced back to Franklin's insistence on running these passive blocking schemes.

 

[blion72]

Both Bama and Georgia look to be fielding full NFL offensive and defensive lines. Landing the best quarterback every year not withstanding, the dominant line play is the most glaringly obvious reason for their superiority. Not many teams have a single lineman as good as anyone on their offensive or defensive lines. They just absolutely overwhelm and swallow the opposition on nearly every play at the line. I don’t care how good your play design is, I might have a better strategy than Mike Tyson but it doesn’t mean he won’t beat my ***. With those players Franklin could make his clock management gaffes like Georgia did before the half and it absolutely wouldn’t matter they are so physically dominant. I mean it might against Alabama next week but it wouldn’t against Indiana. As far as the playoffs go, not much has changed. The BCS and the playoffs used to be about who would be Bama’s sacrificial lamb. The only difference now is that Georgia has entered the fray.

did you also notice how many of these players were in their first two years in the programs. these programs are recruiting the "physical positions" (as opposed to the skill positions) with players who can step onto the field and play right away in these roles. the other approach are the Illinois and Pitts of the world that fill their roster with 4-6 year players, most of whom are going to the real world not the NFL. If you recruit these elite players they are gone in 3 years for the most part. this means you will be young all the time, which is okay if your guys look like what UGA and Bama have.

 

[BobPSU92]

What if um didn’t have jimmie hairball?

 

[psualt]

There's no doubt that the top teams have way more athletic d linemen than PSU has had since Franklin has been here, but I really believe a lot of our O line problems can be traced back to Franklin's insistence on running these passive blocking schemes.

I’m not disagreeing with you but I would think the pass blocking would be pretty good if overall the OL was good. I could understand how that may affect a good running game but passing not so much.

 

[IrishHerb]

Yep, while getting top rated QB's and a couple of top 15 RB's every year seems great, maybe a better plan would be to recruit 6 olinemen and every class so that the competition amongst them to play would yield a better OL than what Franklin has been able to put on the field the last 8 years.

Some how Franklin and Trautwein must improve the play of the OL for PSU to eventually be a top 10 team with a legit chance to not only get into the playoff but to actually be competitive in a playoff game............

Not only offense linemen, but defense linemen too.

Alabama's and Georgia's lines (both offense and defense) simply dominate their opponents.

 

[tailgator]

I’m not disagreeing with you but I would think the pass blocking would be pretty good if overall the OL was good. I could understand how that may affect a good running game but passing not so much.

Actually our O line graded out pretty well in pass blocking this year. A lot of the sacks Clifford took were due to his bad decision making or pocket awareness.

 

[Phlebitis]

did you also notice how many of these players were in their first two years in the programs. these programs are recruiting the "physical positions" (as opposed to the skill positions) with players who can step onto the field and play right away in these roles. the other approach are the Illinois and Pitts of the world that fill their roster with 4-6 year players, most of whom are going to the real world not the NFL. If you recruit these elite players they are gone in 3 years for the most part. this means you will be young all the time, which is okay if your guys look like what UGA and Bama have.

Yes, good point. I suppose that is why they are 5 stars; they are for the most part, ready to play now. And to your second point, it is a problem for those who have their best developing 4 star-type lineman leaving early before they can contribute the most.

 

[EddyS]

Both Bama and Georgia look to be fielding full NFL offensive and defensive lines. Landing the best quarterback every year not withstanding, the dominant line play is the most glaringly obvious reason for their superiority. Not many teams have a single lineman as good as anyone on their offensive or defensive lines. They just absolutely overwhelm and swallow the opposition on nearly every play at the line. I don’t care how good your play design is, I might have a better strategy than Mike Tyson but it doesn’t mean he won’t beat my ***. With those players Franklin could make his clock management gaffes like Georgia did before the half and it absolutely wouldn’t matter they are so physically dominant. I mean it might against Alabama next week but it wouldn’t against Indiana. As far as the playoffs go, not much has changed. The BCS and the playoffs used to be about who would be Bama’s sacrificial lamb. The only difference now is that Georgia has entered the fray.

I would toss in that they have the fastest and best WRs.

 

[psu31trap]

Both Bama and Georgia look to be fielding full NFL offensive and defensive lines. Landing the best quarterback every year not withstanding, the dominant line play is the most glaringly obvious reason for their superiority. Not many teams have a single lineman as good as anyone on their offensive or defensive lines. They just absolutely overwhelm and swallow the opposition on nearly every play at the line. I don’t care how good your play design is, I might have a better strategy than Mike Tyson but it doesn’t mean he won’t beat my ***. With those players Franklin could make his clock management gaffes like Georgia did before the half and it absolutely wouldn’t matter they are so physically dominant. I mean it might against Alabama next week but it wouldn’t against Indiana. As far as the playoffs go, not much has changed. The BCS and the playoffs used to be about who would be Bama’s sacrificial lamb. The only difference now is that Georgia has entered the fray.

What you say is true. Both Georgia & Alabama land the finest elite 5* athletes in the country. So, the question for me is how do they land these kids? What the “@&$ is there to be excited about Tuscaloosa and Athens? At least in the 80’s kids from the northeast were honest about playing for Miami (Coral Gables). They loved the beach and the young ladies in bikinis closed the deal. I, for one, do not believe for a moment that Saban or Smart insist or even mention academic standards when interviewing NFL caliber athletes, and if they did it’s followed up with a wink of the eye. Coach Paterno slowly began to lose the recruiting war to Miami, Florida and Oklahoma for this very reason! I firmly believe that coach Franklin, who is an excellent recruiter, has a set of invisible handcuffs on when trying to land these kids. It’s not a fair playing field!! Urban Meyer bent every possible recruiting rule to land these athletes and only won 1 NC at OSU in 6 or 7 years.

The NCAA knows it’s not a fair playing field, the B10 commissioner knows it’s not a fair playing field and every B10 head coach knows it’s not a fair playing field but no one has the balls to step up in front of a podium and address this issue!!

 

[VaDave4PSU]

What you say is true. Both Georgia & Alabama land the finest elite 5* athletes in the country. So, the question for me is how do they land these kids? What the “@&$ is there to be excited about Tuscaloosa and Athens? At least in the 80’s kids from the northeast were honest about playing for Miami (Coral Gables). They loved the beach and the young ladies in bikinis closed the deal. I, for one, do not believe for a moment that Saban or Smart insist or even mention academic standards when interviewing NFL caliber athletes, and if they did it’s followed up with a wink of the eye. Coach Paterno slowly began to lose the recruiting war to Miami, Florida and Oklahoma for this very reason! I firmly believe that coach Franklin, who is an excellent recruiter, has a set of invisible handcuffs on when trying to land these kids. It’s not a fair playing field!! Urban Meyer bent every possible recruiting rule to land these athletes and only won 1 NC at OSU in 6 or 7 years.

The NCAA knows it’s not a fair playing field, the B10 commissioner knows it’s not a fair playing field and every B10 head coach knows it’s not a fair playing field but no one has the balls to step up in front of a podium and address this issue!!

I've said it since the day 3 Clemson and 3 Bama guys mysteriously tested positive for PEDs and missed either the semi or the title game that year.

The bigger issue is PEDs. If you hit both Bama and UGA this morning, they'd both have to forfeit next week's title game.

 

[leinbacker]

Jimmy and the Joes?

like Jimmy Franklin and Joe Morehead?

 

[Got GSPs]

Yep, while getting top rated QB's and a couple of top 15 RB's every year seems great, maybe a better plan would be to recruit 6 olinemen and every class so that the competition amongst them to play would yield a better OL than what Franklin has been able to put on the field the last 8 years.

Some how Franklin and Trautwein must improve the play of the OL for PSU to eventually be a top 10 team with a legit chance to not only get into the playoff but to actually be competitive in a playoff game............

I totally agree and we all can see the problem. The difficult part is fixing it

 

[GregInPitt]

Not only offense linemen, but defense linemen too.

Alabama's and Georgia's lines (both offense and defense) simply dominate their opponents.

Yep, but with Mustipher healthy PSU's DL was a very good unit. OL has been consistently weak, not really an average B10 OL, when what is needed to compete is a very top B10 OL.

 

[GregInPitt]

I totally agree and we all can see the problem. The difficult part is fixing it

Yep, that's why at this point I believe the law of averages would help solve it. The players that Franklin and his OL coaches have recruited the last 8 years have not resulted in adequate olines, and many of the classes had low numbers of oline recruits. So I believe Franklin and Trautwien (mainly Franklin as he has the final say on the distribution of scholarships among positions) needs to add scholarships to the oline and instead of carrying 14-16 olinemen, carry 20 and then also over recruit and let those that do not show real progress, or realize they are in over their heads, transfer. This fits in with the current turnover caused by the Portal's easy transfer characteristics that have overwhelmed college football the last few seasons........

 

[Got GSPs]

Yep, that's why at this point I believe the law of averages would help solve it. The players that Franklin and his OL coaches have recruited the last 8 years have not resulted in adequate olines, and many of the classes had low numbers of oline recruits. So I believe Franklin and Trautwien (mainly Franklin as he has the final say on the distribution of scholarships among positions) needs to add scholarships to the oline and instead of carrying 14-16 olinemen, carry 20 and then also over recruit and let those that do not show real progress transfer. This fits in with the current turnover caused by the Portal's easy transfer characteristics that have overwhelmed college football the last few seasons........

Does penn state actually have fewer o linemen than other programs, or are you saying we need more that others because of our poor track record?

 

[GregInPitt]

Does penn state actually have fewer o linemen than other programs, or are you saying we need more that others because of our poor track record?

I didn't do research on other rosters, so mostly it's because of the poor track record. But when you look at some of PSU's OL classes, getting 3 total, 1 of whom is a JC player with less eligibility (and one then quits football), creates a big hole at the position. Then where's the follow-up with a bigger OL class? They don't get it done, or else they believe it wasn't a priority. So I believe they need to go after and get bigger numbers EVERY year. I doubt you would find oh-high-ya, Bama, or other top programs with a 3 OL class with one a JC player.

With an average of even 22 players in each class, that's a 1 deep at each position which warrants 5 olinemen. But even with the fact that RB and QB sometimes get over recruited due to transfers, there should never be a class of less than 4 olinemen and if a particular class ends up short or the roster gets short there should be some 6 OL classes...... But that has not happened with Franklin.

 

[Bison13]

Would like to see CJF give in to his athletic OL/DL recruiting and annually take a couple 2 star type fire hydrants who can play OG or DT.

 

[blion72]

Would like to see CJF give in to his athletic OL/DL recruiting and annually take a couple 2 star type fire hydrants who can play OG or DT.

that is a good observation, as I think if you look at the * ratings, our OL and DL players on avg would rank HIGHER than most of the other BIG schools including Iowa and Wisconsin. Take Cole Brevard for instance. He IS the big fire hydrant style DT on the roster - may be the only one. He was a 4* player and we have not seen him play in the 2 years he has been here. Assume he is just not good enough and will leave the program, so an example of the misses and losses we have had. Some other good examples where we lost a 4* DT to a heart condition, so class rank is deceptive when you lose or miss on players. We lost the Culpepper kid who was a 4* Florida legacy player at DE. We moved him inside and he never produced, and is not at MAC schools with a couple years to play.

 

[s1uggo72]

that is a good observation, as I think if you look at the * ratings, our OL and DL players on avg would rank HIGHER than most of the other BIG schools including Iowa and Wisconsin. Take Cole Brevard for instance. He IS the big fire hydrant style DT on the roster - may be the only one. He was a 4* player and we have not seen him play in the 2 years he has been here. Assume he is just not good enough and will leave the program, so an example of the misses and losses we have had. Some other good examples where we lost a 4* DT to a heart condition, so class rank is deceptive when you lose or miss on players. We lost the Culpepper kid who was a 4* Florida legacy player at DE. We moved him inside and he never produced, and is not at MAC schools with a couple years to play.

Brad Culpepper played at PSU? And here I thought he went to Florida

 

[Psu00]

If he is unable to get this done over the next couple of seasons, my support will evaporate.

We just finished year 8. How long do you give him? (Not being snarky or passive aggressive- serious question).

 

[blion72]

Brad Culpepper played at PSU? And here I thought he went to Florida

I think his name was Judge Culpeper. comes from a Florida legacy family. another highly rated recruit that did not work out at PSU.

 

[s1uggo72]

I think his name was Judge Culpeper. comes from a Florida legacy family. another highly rated recruit that did not work out at PSU.

Judge was the kid Brad wAs the Dad who went to Fl.

 

[Keezer]

Jimmy and the Joes?

like Jimmy Franklin and Joe Morehead?

Jimi Hendrix and Joe Bonamassa?