Yes, this year. I guess my feeling is that doing what Indiana did is only sustainable for a few programs who will master the art going forward.
It could have been us
- Thread starter EvanstonCat
- Start date
So Tulane passed us by because they invested more cash in their players than NU?
The last sentence is the irony in all bitching about “wasting” money on facilities and not investing in NIL often comes from folks unwilling to contribute funds to True NU or whatever the mechanism is now.
And IU is also in process of raising 600 to 750 million for major football updates, facilities being the biggest and more NIL funding
Say what you will about hindsight but I remember some people including myself fearing that we were missing an opportunity to bring in a game changing coach. I did think IU made a great hire and I wasn’t the only one. Did I think they would be this great? No. But my point is that we could be so much more. We just have to get the right guy. It’s not like we are Little Sisters of the Poor. We have B1G money, we have SOTA facilities and stadium, we are next to Chicago. It shouldn’t take much to take us to the next level now. Honestly, I’ve been a Fitz critic but I do wonder what he could do recruiting wise with the stadium. Let him learn at MSU how to run a program with pay for play and selling football more than 40 years because that’s all you can do, and hopefully discover the value of scoring some points (or at least an OC can), and I’d love to bring him back. Braun’s a nice guy, but this is basically our ceiling.
Yeah dissing the facilities is just silly. We needed all these facilities upgrades because let's be honest, the school only invested a few million dollars into facilities over 100+ years of athletic competition, and we're in the Big Ten.
At some point, we were due to spend $1+ billion on facilities because we had almost embarrassing level facilities for a private university that prides itself on competing at the highest level of both academics and athletics.
I think our fans just need to be happy that all the major facilities spending is nearly behind us and we're seeing major ROI not just in football/basketball but also in smaller sports as well; getting 11 national titles in 2 team sports is a significant haul for a university that only had 1 fencing title before the modern era. KAH and Fuchs have loaded the trophy case.
Now that the stadium is nearly completed, our major donors can turn their attention to NIL. NIL also isn't a race because it's an ongoing setup that we'll need to fund bringing on better players every year. It's a completely different animal than the facilities rebuild (which was always needed).
It may have been announced in 22 but it was years in the making with the actual decision likely made several years before the actual announcement and at that time NIL was nonexistent
We never had that opportunity. No ”game changing coaches” were interested in NU.
Perhaps one of those guys could/would be (I) once the facilities are completely done, (II) the new President and Provost are in place and more athletic-friendly, and (III) significant NIL and Admissions concessions are won.
That won’t be until after the 2026 season at the very earliest.
The stadium donations are definitely deductible. Are monies being funneled to NIL deductible? It might be if the person actually did ads for your company but if it is a straight payment? For example "donations" required for seats are not. When the big donors make these donations they are often years in the making and deductiblility is a pretty big issue when the person is in 37% bracket (which in reality is closer to 45-50% when state taxes and surcharges are taken into account)
I think you have to add Vandy and Duke,. But as you say, the big money will still be going to the top programs.
It's not and is never too late to do that. It's not going to happen this offseason for multiple reasons but it will soon be clear whether Braun is the guy who can take us to the next level. He's gotten us back to a place where we aren't embarrassing, but that's not good enough. Not sure Jackson will have the patience.
When Fitz was dismissed the way he was, NU was poison. None of the game changing coaches you suggest would be chomping at the bit to come to NU would have anything to do with us. PERIOD. And And with what was going on on the coaching side, we were also handicapped in the NIL area
Take it up with both the administration and the athletic department. Ryan has done all he can for the program. Anything else is up to the university. I will say this yet again(about the tenth time or so), facilities do not attract top talent. A top tier HC hire and staff will work wonders. The University needs to realize this and act accordingly. The program is going to die a slow death the way it is being handled now. NU won't compete at the level needed to ever win a B1G title ever again if they don't suck it up and lower the academic requirements for football. Seriously, you think folks are going to pay ridiculous ticket prices for a garbage product, especially if we do enter a recession or worse? I hate saying this, because one of the main reasons I follow NU football is because they haven't sold out, but I would like the program to flourish and be competitive. Going to Detroit for a bowl isn't much to hang a helmet on, and it isn't going to bring in better talent either overall. Braun could be the guy, but damn give him a real chance.
There will never be a “slow death” as long as the BTN checks keep rolling in.
Jackson has one gratis hire for the position if he does it soon.. For now his hands have been tied by the fact that the team did well enough to save Braun's job. Braun is a nice guy that you would like to succeed. He looks to have upside but reality is that he does not have a long time to show it and at this point he still seems overmatched
I think most people want further relaxed admissions, more NIL money and especially more wins,
The new President and Provost will be an opportunity to secure some changes, depending on who’s hired.
If they actually turn their attention to that then we can stop complaining, but let’s not be silly and pretend that a fraction of the practice facility spend couldn’t seed an NIL endowment that would have a wildly greater impact on the quality of our teams.
Depends if you view “slow death” as a slow actual financial death or just a death of competitiveness and seriousness. And with Michigan and USC keeping alive the universal GOR expiration of the mid 30s, totally uncompetitive and unserious isn’t where anybody can afford to be.
And we are clearly neither uncompetitive nor unserious.
I question if that is true within significant chunks of our broader institution. Jackson and the program itself is clearly serious, but we have serious barriers elsewhere that I don’t think get it.
I suppose it’s mostly a question of what you consider “serious.”
By “serious” I mostly mean “not going to just mail it in and ride out the bottom of the standings while clearing TV checks.” Seems that you more mean “try to consistently compete for revenue sport titles.” While I think that will always be the goal, I don’t know that it’s really realistic.
NU (or at least the Ryan family) is clearly “serious” enough to spend hundreds of millions of dollars on athletics. To date, chunks of the NU administration have not been “serious” enough to make adjustments that could improve the ceiling of our athletic programs. However, I’m hopeful that (I) the new President and Provost will be more receptive to modernizing NU’s approach to athletics and (II) the Ryan family and other similarly situated donors become more willing to support NU through NIL, coach salaries, etc. once all the big ticket facilities are done.
Maybe they should consult you, because surely they’re just sitting on their hands right now completely content with their NIL war chest. They’re not stupid. It’s being worked on.
That’s not true about grad students in relation to them not being admitted without football. It’s always easier to transfer to NU - regardless of why - when you have an undergraduate degree. I know this from personal experience bc I had several friends who went to NU for grad who couldn’t get in out of high school.
I mean, they weren’t really that close to the playoff. Isn’t that what we were talking about?
That doesn't explain IU's success last season where the JMU players who followed Cignetti really didn't get big $, and despite paying some good $ this year (including to retain the talent they already had), according to 247 team talent composite rankings, IU is dead last in the conference with Illinois 2nd from the bottom and the Cats third.
Cig paid wisely when it came to key transfers for this season (i.e. - Mendoza, who btw was a lowly 3* recruit), but wouldn't exactly say that the IU team is an all star squad of super transfers.
As important as Mendoza is, he wouldn't have been in the position to be the likely Heisman winner if Cig hadn't built up the trenches on both sides (with largely formerly unheralded recruits).
Cig and the staff he assembled probably do a better job of putting their players in a position to succeed than pretty much any other current program (which is why they were able to overcome the talent gap with dOSU, Oregon and yes, even PSU (3rd in the B1G talent composite rankings).
People need to chill on Braun.
He (with the proper funding) just needs to find the right QB, and we'll see if Lujan continues to grow or if Braun needs to make a change there.
Besides a QB and coaching (scheme/playcalling), you still need above average play in the trenches (which is what IU has) and it seems like Braun has the O-line finally moving in the right direction after years of mediocrity.
Think people would have a different opinion on Braun if the Cats had beaten UM or Nebby, but
a play or 2 ended up costing them those games.
Let's remember, winning 8-9 games in the conference is now a lot tougher (not that the goal isn't to do even better) than it was before with the additions of the most talented programs from the PAC (and yes, that includes UCLA) and no longer getting the benefit of playing in the weak B1GW (with Illinois and Nebby no longer being complete messes, with IU now being a power under Cig and fully expect Campbell to have PSU back near the top in a few years).
But it's going to take some time to undo the damage that was done when it comes to recruiting (and now the portal) on the offensive side of the ball.
Braun just needs to keep improving the trenches and land the right QB.
Vandy's coach, Lea, who went 2-22 in the SEC in his first 3 seasons (and 3-5 in his 4th) would never have survived to his breakout season if the powers that be had little patience.
The improvement came via a better roster via NIL (including in the trenches) and hiring our old friend Jerry Kill and a good chunk of the offensive staff from NMSt, which led to Pavia reneging on his move to Nevada in order to join his old coaches at Vandy.
Oh, please....
A new stadium wasn't going to make Fitz a better recruiter (much less evaluator of talent) on the offensive side of the ball as long as he kept playing turtle ball.
We just need to give Braun a little more time to see if he can land the right QB; but landing the right QB is no panacea if the pieces around him (particularly the O-line) stink and the O-line under Braun has looked better than it has in years.
If you’re looking at rankings that think IU is dead last in talent then you’re looking at rankings your should disregard completely
If the new President actually gets going on those changes, then that will be a material change. But right now it’s just fingers crossed, not anything tangible.
Clearly they aren’t dead last in the conference. However, they are not close to being the most “talented” team in the Nation or the conference. I don’t care for Cig personally, but there is no denying he has been a magician with what he has been able to accomplish at IU.
"He (with the proper funding) just needs to find the right QB,"
Oh, is that all?
And I, with the proper funding, could have retired 10 years ago.
CFB success is critically dependent on the HC and QB. Braun doesn't control the funding but he controls who he chooses to pursue. He swung and missed on Wright with limited choices (and gave up way too early with nothing behind Wright) and swung and missed on Stone with actual modest funding. Stone had one good B1G game (MN), piled up stats vs WIU and ULM, and was otherwise bad. He had the 15th best QBR in the B1G and had 16 yards rushing.
I like Braun. I badly want him to succeed. He is a good guy, cares very much about the players, who love him, and is inspiring. But I hope we can agree that one of his weaknesses is judgment, maybe due to experience, but he's 3 years in now and still puzzling. Do we trust his judgment to get a QB on the level with Duke Tulane Vandy, even if funding materializes? Notice I don't mention IU, but the others are better than us. Duke has been for a decade. Why? Coaching and QBs.
I'm not saying it's easy, but when half the G5/6 programs have better QBs than us, there's a big problem.
Perhaps, but it’s different now. Why are we rolling with Braun still? New stadium. New AD. B1G money. Vandy, Duke, and Indiana proving it is possible (both for academic schools and for schools with zero tradition). We waste time with the hand we have been dealt. Just fold and hope we get the cards with the next hand.
Because NU isn’t a place that will fire a guy for a bowl season in an over-performing season.
Continue the mediocre recruiting, questionable (or mediocre at best) portal QB acquisitions, and subpar in-game management and OC decisions, and I suspect we will get more and more accustomed to 6-6 and Detroit bowls being "over-performing".
But let's not forget... Braun was not some hotshot up and coming coach that was a prime head coaching candidate at the time he got our job. He was a somewhat risky choice to be DC moving from the FCS level who then, unexpectedly, got thrust into the head job despite having zero experience coaching in any capacity at the FBS level and zero experience at any level as the head guy. None of that was his fault, but it does show why some here don't feel we need to show the same patience as if we had a proven head coaching candidate or hotshot, high level FBS coordinator in the role.
How about saying people want more wins and under the current rules that requires more NIL and relaxed admissions
Really? With Gragg and Schill and with what the did to Fitz, the only guy with any experience (not just HC experience) that would even return a call was Mendenhall. There was no option other than Braun.
Facilities might not have the game changing impact in recruiting but they do have an effect. If nothing else overcome the negative of bad facilities. Imagine the difference of the players having to do their training in the basement of Patten Gym as they had to in the past, Do they need to go to the over the top facilities that we have gone to? Maybe not, but upgrades were needed