It's How We Lose

[Farsight Clone]

The way this team and even last years team gives up in multiple games, shows lack of effort is astonishing. And yes, last year we gave up in the second half against plenty of teams.

If Pope was somehow Pitino 2.0 and we fought hard and barely lost and was competitive and did not get blown out, no bad body language, no team chemistry issues, no lack of effort, I bet that half if not most of this board would be MORE than willing to give Pope a 3rd year. In addition to not playing your best players. BCG, Tubby, Mostly Cal (Shep and Dilly), and Rick (damn you 97) started their best players.

At the end of the day, its how we lose. Losing is rough at as it is, but when we lose the way we do, consistently, is the root source of why most of us want Pope gone. On the other side of the coin, can't land big recruits and can't develop his supposed top talent in Jasper and JQ.

Think of all of the great coaches in basketball and football.

They had fight, they where ultra competitive, they absolutely refused to lose, had a specific alpha personality and they were azzholes. (Pitino, Cal, Coach K, Saban, Meyer, Oats, Pearl)

Can any Pope pumper tell me if he has any of those traits?

Based off how Pope carries himself from year one, and this year and specifically his radio shows, tells me he probably doesn't have it.

Too be fair, he had it for a short minute. The way he yelled at BG and benched him for the rest of the game, showed he could do it. But the real question is, does he WANT to do it. I don't think he does, because it's not who he is as a person. You can't force someone who isn't like this. Like you can't force an introvert to be an extrovert.

Pope said he understood the assignment. He may understand it, but it does not mean he can deliver the assignment.

 

[CELTICAT]

Feels like we’ve been down 20 more in one and half seasons than the previous 40 seasons combined.

 

[Old Blue Fart]

The lack of hustle is one of the first things each game I notice. We seem to have more guys standing watching then actually playing.
When someone shoots the ball, it seems we have 1-2 guys around the action but they stand and watch a player for the other team grab the ball. We just do not get many of those 50/50 balls as they call them.

There seems to be a lack of "that's my ball" attitude. When you have guys as tall as ours are and they only get 5-6 rebounds if that many, why?

 

[Artlaibesghost]

When you can't hit shots EVERYTHING becomes difficult.

 

[Johnnie Africa]

Ya we just get completely boatraced.

 

[chroix]

That Gonzaga game exposed just how broken this team is. That game was every bit as bad and mismanaged as the Askew squad was.

 

[Argonaut]

Does any one know the amount of double digit losses Pope has had and how it compares to previous coaches? It definitely feels like we’re getting blown out much more under Pope than previous coaches despite it only being his second year.

 

[I’m The Village Idiot]

I want it to work with Pope as much as anyone. I can’t defend the things we are doing that are causing the big deficits. Pope’s saying he’s not orchestrating these mistakes, but why aren’t players getting pulled for them? If I had the opportunity to coach my dream job, I might lose my **** on players not running the plays I called or not fulfilling the defensive assignments I requested. Why isn’t Pope? I’ve graduated from pure anger to utter confusion. None of it makes sense.

 

[RunninRichie]

Hey guys, remember 1998? Who cares!!111

 

[UKBB4Ever]

The way this team and even last years team gives up in multiple games, shows lack of effort is astonishing. And yes, last year we gave up in the second half against plenty of teams.

If Pope was somehow Pitino 2.0 and we fought hard and barely lost and was competitive and did not get blown out, no bad body language, no team chemistry issues, no lack of effort, I bet that half if not most of this board would be MORE than willing to give Pope a 3rd year. In addition to not playing your best players. BCG, Tubby, Mostly Cal (Shep and Dilly), and Rick (damn you 97) started their best players.

At the end of the day, its how we lose. Losing is rough at as it is, but when we lose the way we do, consistently, is the root source of why most of us want Pope gone. On the other side of the coin, can't land big recruits and can't develop his supposed top talent in Jasper and JQ.

Think of all of the great coaches in basketball and football.

They had fight, they where ultra competitive, they absolutely refused to lose, had a specific alpha personality and they were azzholes. (Pitino, Cal, Coach K, Saban, Meyer, Oats, Pearl)

Can any Pope pumper tell me if he has any of those traits?

Based off how Pope carries himself from year one, and this year and specifically his radio shows, tells me he probably doesn't have it.

Too be fair, he had it for a short minute. The way he yelled at BG and benched him for the rest of the game, showed he could do it. But the real question is, does he WANT to do it. I don't think he does, because it's not who he is as a person. You can't force someone who isn't like this. Like you can't force an introvert to be an extrovert.

Pope said he understood the assignment. He may understand it, but it does not mean he can deliver the assignment.

Exactly!!

 

[L.O.D.]

When you can't hit shots EVERYTHING becomes difficult.

When you cant run your offense because you got different style players and you refuse to change it might add a little to the difficulty and bad shot making as its bad shot taking.

 

[JPFisher]

Too be fair, he had it for a short minute. The way he yelled at BG and benched him for the rest of the game, showed he could do it. But the real question is, does he WANT to do it. I don't think he does, because it's not who he is as a person. You can't force someone who isn't like this. Like you can't force an introvert to be an extrovert.

Pope has mentioned that he started out his coaching career with yelling and mimicking Pitino. He found that he wasn't getting the response he wanted from his guys, so he switched to positive reinforcement.

Positive reinforcement only works (and it works EXTREMELY well when it does) when the subject is actually doing something good. Ergo, rewards reinforce the trait. We ain't doing a whole lot as a team that anyone wants to reinforce. So, Pope is going to have to reach into the bag of tricks from the Pitino days and beat some sense into his guys.

Mess up in practice or half-*** it? You're running for 30 minutes and then you're first to go in the next drill. Mess up again, and you run until you puke or the cows come home. Whichever comes first. Repeat as necessary. Players should fear the treadmill.

Jog back on D after your lazy handles turn the ball over? You get chewed out and sat for the game.

Pope cannot rely on his assistants to be the bad guys. He just can't. Not with the product we're seeing on the floor now. The guys have no urgency, and that urgency needs to be provided by the head man.

The good news is that to your last point, I disagree to an extent. You can't make someone who's an introvert into an extrovert, but you can teach an introvert to be extroverted. Humans and other animals can acclimate to their environment. The brain, even later in life, is extremely plastic (both in ability to adapt as well as being full of micro/nano plastics). So, we can whip our guys into ship shape, but time is ticking on this season... If the clock hasn't already expired.

 

[Farsight Clone]

The good news is that to your last point, I disagree to an extent. You can't make someone who's an introvert into an extrovert, but you can teach an introvert to be extroverted. Humans and other animals can acclimate to their environment. The brain, even later in life, is extremely plastic (both in ability to adapt as well as being full of micro/nano plastics). So, we can whip our guys into ship shape, but time is ticking on this season... If the clock hasn't already expired.

I agree with the rest of your comments but wanted to respond to this portion. I think the problem is, that Pope does not have an alpha personality. Even learned, it won't be genuine and authentic because at the end of the day it's not who he is. I think this fan base wants someone who is an alpha by nature, Like Pitino and Cal. The two that come to mind the most right now are Pearl and Oats.

 

[BBNinSCar]

I do not believe you have to be Bobby Knight to be successful as a college basketball coach.
The idea that we need a screaming a$$hole jumping around on the sideline is wrong.
The greatest college coach of all time was mild mannered as well as the 2 greatest coaches in the history of the NBA.
There is an obvious lack of discipline and team development with Mark Pope. We have several players that are paid well and not held to the Kentucky winning standard in practice or games. It’s a roster of spoiled kids that are not as good as they think they are with a coach who looks like an exhausted parent trying to get everyone on the same page.

 

[UKBB4Ever]

I do not believe you have to be Bobby Knight to be successful as a college basketball coach.
The idea that we need a screaming a$$hole jumping around on the sideline is wrong.
The greatest college coach of all time was mild mannered as well as the 2 greatest coaches in the history of the NBA.
There is an obvious lack of discipline and team development with Mark Pope. We have several players that are paid well and not held to the Kentucky winning standard in practice or games. It’s a roster of spoiled kids that are not as good as they think they are with a coach who looks like an exhausted parent trying to get everyone on the same page.

Rupp wasn’t really all that mild mannered

 

[TTTblue24]

I don’t know how the staff watches game film and says “yeah, this looks great so no reason to change things up”. I mean when your best 5 players do not play the majority of the game……here’s the result.

 

[Anon1759768907]

Another problem with this team is the team is not talented enough to win when the coaching is bad

 

[JPFisher]

I agree with the rest of your comments but wanted to respond to this portion. I think the problem is, that Pope does not have an alpha personality. Even learned, it won't be genuine and authentic because at the end of the day it's not who he is. I think this fan base wants someone who is an alpha by nature, Like Pitino and Cal. The two that come to mind the most right now are Pearl and Oats.

Coming from the world of behavioral ecology, there's not really a thing as alpha, beta, omega, gamma, or whatever the podcaster buzzword is for leadership or "superior" behavior is. The study that started the whole "alpha" thing in wolves has since been debunked, and even in highly hierarchical organisms (human included), there's no such thing as an alpha in the classic sense of the world. Leadership, like nature, abhors a vacuum. Subsequently, someone or something will fill that void.

Leaders aren't born – they're created. Politicians and CEOs aren't assertive or great delegators right out of the womb. Darius Miller wasn't leader until his senior year. Heck, if we want to go the passive, somewhat religious route, check out Hacksaw Ridge. Nobody would've considered Desmond Doss an "alpha," yet he was a concientious objector due to his faith and life experiences and still earned the Medal of Honor. They had to dial back his badassery in the movie to make it believable.

These are big examples, but this same stuff happens every day at everyday levels. I've seen it and been a part of leadership workshops where I watched a guy who had a stroke and lost almost everything create and lead a nonprofit. I've seen people who had given up on ambition and worked a dead end 9-5 for decades quit it all and become a leader of a nonprofit or small business... Sometimes both.

So while I respect the counter argument and understand what you're saying and where you're coming from, I know from both research and experience that what I said is possible.

Just for the heck of it, I'm reading a book this month called Personality Isn't Permanent by Dr. Benjamin Hardy (PhD in organizational psychology – he currently focuses on entrepreneurial psychology and growth mindsets) and it covers a lot of this. You might find it interesting. I know I'm looking forward to finishing it.

 

[RoyKent]

Feels like we’ve down 20 more in one and half seasons than the previous 40 seasons combined.

8 times in 34 games since the start of last season. Completely inexcusable

 

[KyKevin]

Rupp wasn’t really all that mild mannered

No but John Wooden was

 

[AllBall]

Feels like we’ve down 20 more in one and half seasons than the previous 40 seasons combined.

Well, in over 50% of games against Quad 1 teams Pope has been down 20 points. So, you probably aren't far off with your assertion.

 

[UKBB4Ever]

No but John Wooden was

Wooden is not the greatest college coach ever.

That would be Rupp.

 

[KyKevin]

Wooden is not the greatest college coach ever.

That would be Rupp.

I got my opinion, I respect yours.
That would be Wooden. And Bill Walton was the greatest college player
10 titles speak for Wooden, no one will ever do that in our life time.

 

[*Fox2Monk*]

Feels like we’ve down 20 more in one and half seasons than the previous 40 seasons combined.

It really does.

 

[*Fox2Monk*]

That Gonzaga game exposed just how broken this team is. That game was every bit as bad and mismanaged as the Askew squad was.

It’s so embarrassing. All the years I talked smack about the weak WCC and they boat raced us man.

 

[Vek96]

The way this team and even last years team gives up in multiple games, shows lack of effort is astonishing. And yes, last year we gave up in the second half against plenty of teams.

If Pope was somehow Pitino 2.0 and we fought hard and barely lost and was competitive and did not get blown out, no bad body language, no team chemistry issues, no lack of effort, I bet that half if not most of this board would be MORE than willing to give Pope a 3rd year. In addition to not playing your best players. BCG, Tubby, Mostly Cal (Shep and Dilly), and Rick (damn you 97) started their best players.

At the end of the day, its how we lose. Losing is rough at as it is, but when we lose the way we do, consistently, is the root source of why most of us want Pope gone. On the other side of the coin, can't land big recruits and can't develop his supposed top talent in Jasper and JQ.

Think of all of the great coaches in basketball and football.

They had fight, they where ultra competitive, they absolutely refused to lose, had a specific alpha personality and they were azzholes. (Pitino, Cal, Coach K, Saban, Meyer, Oats, Pearl)

Can any Pope pumper tell me if he has any of those traits?

Based off how Pope carries himself from year one, and this year and specifically his radio shows, tells me he probably doesn't have it.

Too be fair, he had it for a short minute. The way he yelled at BG and benched him for the rest of the game, showed he could do it. But the real question is, does he WANT to do it. I don't think he does, because it's not who he is as a person. You can't force someone who isn't like this. Like you can't force an introvert to be an extrovert.

Pope said he understood the assignment. He may understand it, but it does not mean he can deliver the assignment.

Really good post. Pretty much how I feel.

 

[theBlues]

Coming from the world of behavioral ecology, there's not really a thing as alpha, beta, omega, gamma, or whatever the podcaster buzzword is for leadership or "superior" behavior is. The study that started the whole "alpha" thing in wolves has since been debunked, and even in highly hierarchical organisms (human included), there's no such thing as an alpha in the classic sense of the world. Leadership, like nature, abhors a vacuum. Subsequently, someone or something will fill that void.

Leaders aren't born – they're created. Politicians and CEOs aren't assertive or great delegators right out of the womb. Darius Miller wasn't leader until his senior year. Heck, if we want to go the passive, somewhat religious route, check out Hacksaw Ridge. Nobody would've considered Desmond Doss an "alpha," yet he was a concientious objector due to his faith and life experiences and still earned the Medal of Honor. They had to dial back his badassery in the movie to make it believable.

These are big examples, but this same stuff happens every day at everyday levels. I've seen it and been a part of leadership workshops where I watched a guy who had a stroke and lost almost everything create and lead a nonprofit. I've seen people who had given up on ambition and worked a dead end 9-5 for decades quit it all and become a leader of a nonprofit or small business... Sometimes both.

So while I respect the counter argument and understand what you're saying and where you're coming from, I know from both research and experience that what I said is possible.

Just for the heck of it, I'm reading a book this month called Personality Isn't Permanent by Dr. Benjamin Hardy (PhD in organizational psychology – he currently focuses on entrepreneurial psychology and growth mindsets) and it covers a lot of this. You might find it interesting. I know I'm looking forward to finishing it.

Fascinating post!

 

[BBNinSCar]

I got my opinion, I respect yours.
That would be Wooden. And Bill Walton was the greatest college player
10 titles speak for Wooden, no one will ever do that in our life time.

I was referring to Wooden as the greatest college coach ever. Jackson and Popovich are my 2 greatest NBA coaches, both mild mannered.

 

[I’m The Village Idiot]

I was referring to Wooden as the greatest college coach ever. Jackson and Popovich are my 2 greatest NBA coaches, both mild mannered.

People will probably come at you and emphasize moments where those coaches did not behave mild-mannered, but what you’re saying is obviously true. Not only CAN coaches be elite without having a “highly emotional” personality, most of the greatest coaches of all time in the NBA and college strangely had somewhat stoic personalities. Thing is, a coach can still retain a mild disposition while still allowing no grounds for failure to execute. It’s not an either/or.

 

[The_Answer1313_rivals]

Maybe an unpopular opinion but it's not effort. Effort it just an excuse because people thought this team was more talented than it actually was.

 

[JwUKFan11]

Yep. Last year, there were plenty of games where we got down a bunch, a couple we came back from. I think most of us chalked it up to not having the talent needed but the team had heart. Now we see the same stuff this year but we have the talent, just not the coach.

 

[RobEStacy]

It's the tale of two years.. Which Coach Pope is it. The one that did great last year, and was just injuries away from a magical first season.. Or this train wreck of a season. JMI, can't relate to the elite athletes... Is it really that much of a poorly constructed roster, that no coach could make something out of it. Has the pressure gotten to him... The Leach Interview was very telling. Oweh rolling his eyes at Pope during two post game interviews. Just seems to be alot going on, that's causing this problem. Last year, I though he did a great job.. Threw together a team in mere months.. Was able to navigate the injuries. Landed a few big names in recruiting. Looked like it was all good..... And then this year. A complete 180..unless he quits... And I do t think he will..... He will be back next year. And if the 1st half of the season is like this one, I could see him being let go.... Assuming Barney is still not the AD.. But I agree with the OP... It's not just losing.... It's how we are losing., and Pope's additude... Add in the rumors of JMI and Poor closing ability of Pope..... It's adding up to be bad combo.

 

[KyKevin]

I knew, or was pretty sure you were. Hard to argue Wooden's achievement, or UCLA's greatness. He was a great recruiter, and got the great talent back then.
I'm not taking anything from the great Rupp either, but as we see recruiting is part of being a great coach.

 

[Coach777]

The way this team and even last years team gives up in multiple games, shows lack of effort is astonishing. And yes, last year we gave up in the second half against plenty of teams.

If Pope was somehow Pitino 2.0 and we fought hard and barely lost and was competitive and did not get blown out, no bad body language, no team chemistry issues, no lack of effort, I bet that half if not most of this board would be MORE than willing to give Pope a 3rd year. In addition to not playing your best players. BCG, Tubby, Mostly Cal (Shep and Dilly), and Rick (damn you 97) started their best players.

At the end of the day, its how we lose. Losing is rough at as it is, but when we lose the way we do, consistently, is the root source of why most of us want Pope gone. On the other side of the coin, can't land big recruits and can't develop his supposed top talent in Jasper and JQ.

Think of all of the great coaches in basketball and football.

They had fight, they where ultra competitive, they absolutely refused to lose, had a specific alpha personality and they were azzholes. (Pitino, Cal, Coach K, Saban, Meyer, Oats, Pearl)

Can any Pope pumper tell me if he has any of those traits?

Based off how Pope carries himself from year one, and this year and specifically his radio shows, tells me he probably doesn't have it.

Too be fair, he had it for a short minute. The way he yelled at BG and benched him for the rest of the game, showed he could do it. But the real question is, does he WANT to do it. I don't think he does, because it's not who he is as a person. You can't force someone who isn't like this. Like you can't force an introvert to be an extrovert.

Pope said he understood the assignment. He may understand it, but it does not mean he can deliver the assignment.

Yeah as I stated on other threads JQ would be a monster for most coaches. I can’t see any quality players coming to UK with Pope coaching. Why would they? UK will have to overpay to get second tier players next year with Pope here.

 

[20MRoster]

Coming from the world of behavioral ecology, there's not really a thing as alpha, beta, omega, gamma, or whatever the podcaster buzzword is for leadership or "superior" behavior is. The study that started the whole "alpha" thing in wolves has since been debunked, and even in highly hierarchical organisms (human included), there's no such thing as an alpha in the classic sense of the world. Leadership, like nature, abhors a vacuum. Subsequently, someone or something will fill that void.

Leaders aren't born – they're created. Politicians and CEOs aren't assertive or great delegators right out of the womb. Darius Miller wasn't leader until his senior year. Heck, if we want to go the passive, somewhat religious route, check out Hacksaw Ridge. Nobody would've considered Desmond Doss an "alpha," yet he was a concientious objector due to his faith and life experiences and still earned the Medal of Honor. They had to dial back his badassery in the movie to make it believable.

These are big examples, but this same stuff happens every day at everyday levels. I've seen it and been a part of leadership workshops where I watched a guy who had a stroke and lost almost everything create and lead a nonprofit. I've seen people who had given up on ambition and worked a dead end 9-5 for decades quit it all and become a leader of a nonprofit or small business... Sometimes both.

So while I respect the counter argument and understand what you're saying and where you're coming from, I know from both research and experience that what I said is possible.

Just for the heck of it, I'm reading a book this month called Personality Isn't Permanent by Dr. Benjamin Hardy (PhD in organizational psychology – he currently focuses on entrepreneurial psychology and growth mindsets) and it covers a lot of this. You might find it interesting. I know I'm looking forward to finishing it.

This is the best post I've ever read on RR. Thank you for the insight.

 

[20MRoster]

I was referring to Wooden as the greatest college coach ever. Jackson and Popovich are my 2 greatest NBA coaches, both mild mannered.

Wooden had "help" in era where it was not the norm for other programs. He also was mediocre or worse before receiving such "help" and immediately went on a tear after receiving this "help". Not sold on his greatness. This entire board could be coaching legends if they could play Kareem and Bill Walton against 6'0" white guys.

100% with you on Phil and Pop.