The thing I don't get is, if you're Lyons why announce that you have ended contract negotiations? All that does is tell every kid who is being recruited by WVU that the current coaching staff has no future here so just move on to another school and forget WVU. Don't announce that you're not negotiating, even if asked by the media about the contract status. Lyons should have said something along the lines of we're talking and we'll probably work something out in due time. You know, just give it the ole company line and delay tactics, make it look as if you're negotiating even if you have no intention of bringing the clown show back.
It's official
- Thread starter ThePunish-EER
- Start date
Why?
- WVU is now in a new win situation.
- Perception is reality.
- Good Coaches making lateral moves because instability.
- You can't hire good replacements because of instability.
- Recruiting will take a hit for the second year in a row.
- Should DH be successful, he has zero reason to be loyal and stick around.
The point is, a contract extension doesn't give him any more "stability" than he currently has, the 2016 season is going to determine his future in Morgantown, end of story.
As for perception, all I'll say is not everyone is as naive as you take them for and like always our 2017 recruiting class will end up ranked somewhere between 25-40.
Why? That statement could have been delivered in private.
Either way, I don't really care. Just saying, no reason to create a stir.
I'm sure it has been delivered in private...a few times. Dana's stock is low right now. If he would relinquish his position then Lyons won't be as apt to fire him. It would look poor (i.e. Maryland). If Dana could figure this out and make WVU a consistent 9 win team (very do-able), then he then has the leverage of other schools pursuing him.
IMO if he just goes for the quick cash, he will not coach at anything higher than a lower tier BCS school (think Wash State, Kansas, Wake Forest level programs) at best when next season is done. It's hard getting back up to even a mid-level program from one of those jobs.
If he were in his 60's, then who cares? But as a young guy, taking a big step back now could have the difference of millions over his career. Sometimes you have to look more long-range.
So you feel DH should just quit, and leave behind millions of dollars owed to him?
What world do you live in man?
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Saying a consistent 9 win team is "very doable" may be a bit of a stretch moving ahead, since we are going to be scheduling 2 P5 teams a season out of conference and dropping FCS teams.
Not saying the admin shouldn't try to find a great coach, but I think some fans are going to be in for disappointment in the future if they expect consistent 9 or 10 win teams.
Quit? No.
Relinquish his advantage short term in order to preserve his long term earning potential? Yes. Stay on. Give up the severance advantage he has. Make the new contract for 3 years. No buyout for either side.
I'm telling you that if he goes 8-4 next year that he will get fired if he plays hardball. I will equally tell you he would stay if he has the same record and leaves that severance package on the table. When things are a 50/50 call, things like that can make a world of difference. If Dana digs in, he will be gone. IMO, if he takes that road, he will need to win at least 9 games with one of those being OK or Baylor in order to stay on (which won't happen).
After getting fired, he would get a job elsewhere that won't pay as well as WVU. Then what? Maybe after 3-4 years of making 1-2 mil a year less he might be able to get back to a WVU level job...or maybe he won't. Then what? 4 mil sound like a lot of money, until you realize that is chicken feed long term if he can't make it work at WVU.
WVU fans (should) expect a 9 win average. An occasional 10 win team (every 4-5 years) and an occasional 7 win team (every 7-8 years). With the money the B12 is giving us, we can be more than what we have been the past 5 years.
If the relationship is that toxic, he's gone no matter what and he'd be a fool to give up his money for phony job security, and simply trying to appease folks who only want to toss him out anyways.
Don't blame him, that's the deal WVU made and is required to honor.
They will honor it, but Dana will lose the war fighting the battle that way. It looks a lot better to leave a job in a year or two on your terms(after fixing the ship) than getting fired. Hard for a fan base to get pumped about a new hire that got canned at a mid-level BCS program (which is what we are now)...unless it's at a significantly lower level of play.
Again...your approach is fine if Dana was 67...but he isn't.
Everything you're trying to spew is disingenuous crap. You want the buy-out gone so you can fire him, period. Whether he gets fired, quit's or gives up his buy-out will have NO impact on his future employment. Either way, he'll land a job either as a HC or Assistant making good money, just like most terminated coaches do and he's a young guy who despite what you claim, really hasn't done all that bad of a job here.
You simply want to screw the guy out of his money because you don't like him and you don't like the deal he got.
Besides, none of this has anything to do with Lyons making a public statement. From the outside looking in, it appears Dana got the best of him during negotiations and Lyons wanted payback.
I don't know how you could state that DH got the best of Lyons during contract negotiations. DH is not holding the aces based on his recent performance. If he where to fired he wouldn't land a HC job at a power 5 school he isn't a hot commodity these days. If I where him i wouldn't give up the buy out either but its pretty clear that 2016 is a make or break year for his future at wvu
I agree with that statement.
However, Lyons probably entered negotiations with the goal of reducing or eliminating DH's buyout, and it appears Dana did not budge.
If Muschamp can be re-hired at an SEC school, I'm not so sure Dana can't land a P5 HC job. Either way, Lyons has more riding on this than DH does, worst case scenario for DH is he ends up as an OC somewhere making good money. Lyons future may not be bright if he screws this up.
Muschamp had Spurrier lobbying for him. They thought they where gonna get Kirby smart until the Georgia job opened up. When that fell through most of the appealing candidates where gone. Unless there is a coach retiring in the next year are so that holds DH in the same light as Spurrier held Muschamp its unlikely to happen. Allot of SC fans not happy with this hire
DH is more respected outside of our fan base than within it. WVU fans have high expectations and that is fine, but most folks feel DH is a good coach and has done an OK job here.
Dana has had some real head scratcher losses and in game missteps. Game management is not his strong suit.
The problem y'all you should be discussing is where does WVU turn to find a coach that can win the Big 12.
Yep. So did Bill Stewart and RR.
I didn't say he's incredible, I said he's better than our fans believe.
It will be a tough hire for Lyons to get right.
Not respected enough to have suitors kicking down the door of the Wvu athletic department looking to hire him away or for are current AD to give him what ever he wants.
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No, but he'd get a job if fired. Why you're arguing this, I don't know.
Firing Dana isnt good enough for you folks, you'll only he happy if he's fired, totally unemployable, broke, and living in his parents basement.
No one was knocking down the door to hire Stewart either. They were for RR and how did that turn out?
Apparently, you want them to be good, but not good enough to have any options?
I guess you don't do trail law there chief. Grab a paper bag or something.
I don't fire anyone at WVU. They don't call and ask for my opinion either.
Do you think WVU would fire him if he wins 9-10 games next year? I don't either.
I remember Frank Solich. Damn good coach at Nebraska. 58-19 W-L record there. Got fired at an age that likely sits around the average for a BCS level coach. He got a HC job after that at Ohio (MAC). Significantly less money per year. Surely he would get a quick call up. How did that go?
The lesson is when you have a job like that you hold onto it with both hands and you must be willing to make sacrifices to do that. Now if his plan is to keep every cent of his buyout next year and work the OC circuit and chase co-eds (not a terrible career path) until he retires, then that's a great plan.
What I'm saying is that if it takes giving that severance up to make it work at WVU, then you have to do it. You will never know when a chance like this comes again. Now if he's been given the idea that Lyons hates his guts and will fire him no matter what, then that changes the dynamic. All ADs want to win. If Dana wins 9 next year there is no way he gets fired...no matter who the AD happens to be.
The scenario I gave before and the one here today have nothing to do with my feeling for him personally. I've met him a few times and he seems like a good guy and a good coach. No, I don't like the deal he got and I would bet that the vast majority of WVU fans feel the same way. I think Luck did it to protect him (and WVU) from making a rash decision borne out of impatience. Instead WVU has a coach that has underperformed in a 5 year window, which is more than many coaches get nowadays.
Lyons is likely pissed off and made that statement to push things forward. If he thinks there is any way he stays in 2017 then he needs to get the message before he becomes (if he's lucky) another Frank Solich.
He's been a head coach for one year, pump the breaks. People said the same thing about DH after the Orange Bowl season. And UH is now paying Herman as much as we pay Dana, I'm not even sure he'd make the jump.
RR didn't get along with Pastilong. RR was a diva that wanted stuff that was flat out illegal per NCAA rules and Fast Eddie wanted his coach to be seen but not heard. It turned out the only way it was going to.
The WVU fans want a winner. I do too. It would be a hell of a lot easier and cheaper for that coach to be Dana. Unfortunately, he hasn't shown that he's that guy. All of the recruits are his. All the coaches are his. Can't blame RR or Stew. This is Dana's bed and he got to lie in it.
Dana had 0 HC years before we hired him. Herman will get a second year to prove himself. They literally kicked the tar out of FSU, which is a little different that creaming 2011 Clemson.
I don't know what it would take to get him to WVU, but I'd sure as hell find out what that number looks like. Just make sure OL doesn't touch that contract.
LOL - What the hell is trail law?
If he gets 9-10 wins, I think he will get an extension. So why give up his financial security now, when everything is riding on next year?
Typo/spelling digs....the last bastion of the truly defeated.
BTW..of course he would get extended there, but what happens if he gets 8 regular season wins and beats Baylor?
IMO if he plays ball then he stays on at least 1 more year at 3.5-4mil. Digs in and fights for every last cent....gone and making 1/3 what he's making now for the next few years (at least).
My prediction is 8 wins and at least 1 good upset win and he gets canned because he's pissing off the guy who decides if he is employed in 2017.
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I decided my time was better spent providing info to those that actually care and can be respectful to one another. That doesn't mean everyone on this board is a trouble maker but I see no reason to waste my time after some of the things I've read from a few. Those of you that use both boards know that I've provided a great deal of detail on all of this and it's far from one sided or the AD screwing it up.
Dana was given a chance to sign a new contract and while it was far more favorable to WVU it was the best they felt they could offer based on the progress or lack of that they've (AD) seen. The biggest problem I see is fans throwing out comments without giving any consideration to why WVU is in this position. The AD is concerned about the future of the program and giving an extension that could be very costly didn't make sense at this point.
I've suggested that everyone just let it play out and wait until the facts are known before you go after Dana or Lyons.
I seriously have no clue what you mean by Trail Law.
Digs in and fights for every last cent? You're talking about $3 million + dollars. I don't know what kind of money you're banking, but that's the kind of dough I'm willing to fight over. If that's just dollars and cents to you, that's great but in the real world that's not the kind of cash people walk away from just to "play ball". WVU gave him the contract, they have an obligation to fulfill it. Just because they don't like the deal anymore, doesn't mean DH should forfeit what's owed to him and it's downright sleazy that you suggest otherwise.
If Lyons makes an emotional decision to fire DH simply because he didn't like his negotiation position, then Lyons is unfit for his job, and in my opinion, DH was even more smart for how he handled it. However, I believe Lyons is much smarter than that, so it's not something I'll worry about.
If Dana gets 8 wins and 1 good upset, and gets fired, then he'll walk away with the remainder of his contract - what he's owed. If he gets 9-10 wins, then WVU will probably enter a new agreement with him. Either way, DH is making the smart play for himself.
Basically, the argument you're making is that DH should forfeit his buy-out clause, just so Shane Lyons isn't mad at him - LOL.
Can't make this stuff up.
I can also say that I am skeptical of Lyons ability to hire a new football coach. It would have been nice if we could have brought in an AD that has done this before. Luck had never been an AD either and he's a big reason we are in this position at the moment.
Dana wins 10 + games next year he is gone to another program. Dana win 7 or less he is fired.
I guess people that really want Dana to stay WVU's head ball coach should be rooting for 8/9 wins.
Since he has not beaten OU or KSU since joining the league thats two losses up front.
I guess people that really want Dana to stay WVU's head ball coach should be rooting for 8/9 wins.
Since he has not beaten OU or KSU since joining the league thats two losses up front.