Jeff Teague on Cal
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Cals style of play matches up great with Pitinos. And Selfs for that matter. He struggled against more modern perimeter oriented offenses. No clue what style Texas Tech plays.
Jeff Teague is the reason Marquis didn’t come back when he was told he needed to and would greatly improve his draft stock and his ability to stick in the league with another year.
Pretty fair critique....
1. Cal had some major talent that he could draw (until Duke jumped into 1 and done)
2. But Cal, to me, can develop players when he tried to. If he could get guys to stay for a few years....they were better. PJ Washington jump in year 2, Nick Richards, Derek Willis was a good stretch 4, etc... It's just that he got so enamored with getting guys out to NBA so fast and getting the next 5 star kid that overrecruited current kids...he failed to keep some that needed an extra year (Diallo, Keldon Johnson, etc..)
3. Cal's defensive strategy with the athletes was really good when he got it dialed in. Athletes, switching on ball screens, funnel to shot blockers, etc.... But once the talent level dropped (i.e. Duke jumping into 1 and done pond)...>Cal's coaching of hedging ball screens, trap ball screens, cheat back into lane on drive and kick, etc... got worse and worse.
4. And finally....and biggest issue....he lost Robich, who was the main teacher of concepts. And guys like Welsh was a good offensive uptick, but Payne, Bruiser, Barbee, etc....were just way less teachers than Robich.
1. Cal had some major talent that he could draw (until Duke jumped into 1 and done)
2. But Cal, to me, can develop players when he tried to. If he could get guys to stay for a few years....they were better. PJ Washington jump in year 2, Nick Richards, Derek Willis was a good stretch 4, etc... It's just that he got so enamored with getting guys out to NBA so fast and getting the next 5 star kid that overrecruited current kids...he failed to keep some that needed an extra year (Diallo, Keldon Johnson, etc..)
3. Cal's defensive strategy with the athletes was really good when he got it dialed in. Athletes, switching on ball screens, funnel to shot blockers, etc.... But once the talent level dropped (i.e. Duke jumping into 1 and done pond)...>Cal's coaching of hedging ball screens, trap ball screens, cheat back into lane on drive and kick, etc... got worse and worse.
4. And finally....and biggest issue....he lost Robich, who was the main teacher of concepts. And guys like Welsh was a good offensive uptick, but Payne, Bruiser, Barbee, etc....were just way less teachers than Robich.
I said basically this same thing in another thread. Great post.
For those that didn't read what Teague said, basically he said Cal won because they had hella talent, even in 2012. He told marques they would win because they were talented but the x/o was a$$.
If all that mattered was talent when winning championships then Dean Smith wouldn’t have lost 9 out of 11 times he went to the Final Four.
Jeff Teague loves to talk. A lot. And listen to himself talk.
But he's probably right.
But he's probably right.
Are you guys suggesting Cal wasted talent?
Never made the connection.
The culture he had built where TyTy ran off to the league like he was John Wall took away Cals talent advantage and exposed his lack of coaching. The true one and done talent didn't destroy Cal. The faux one and dones did.
Never made the connection.
The culture he had built where TyTy ran off to the league like he was John Wall took away Cals talent advantage and exposed his lack of coaching. The true one and done talent didn't destroy Cal. The faux one and dones did.
yup, but if you have all that talent, your going to win 2 of those 11 times like he did on talent alone possibly lol... or in Cal's case 1 of 7. I know for sure he should have won in 2015. Deer God that team was so loaded, granted refs definitely seemed on the take in the Wisconsin game but no team should have ever been close enough for it to matter and we still had a shot to win anyway.
Jeff and Cal both told Marquis he wasn’t ready and to return. Don’t rush.
“I said, ‘Go back to school one more year,’ but he felt like he was ready, and I can’t tell him what to do,” said Jeff, “and I was going to be with him whatever decision he made. But I thought he should have went back and had another year to hone his skills. He wanted to come out. He made a grown-man choice.
Cal knows only one way to play and that bites him in close games, tournament play, etc. As far as I can tell, doesn't spend much/any time on fundamentals as his teams rarely look better coached as the season wore on. Once in a blue moon will play a zone even if the opponent sucks at shooting 3s and are beating the guards to the hole every trip down the floor. His teams look completely lost as to how to beat a zone, also. If he has an out of bounds play other than throw the ball from under the basket to the corner or way out beyond the 3, I've yet to see it. Even after the SJU game, he told the interviewer that he'd told his team to 'figure it out', which begs the question why are you making multiple millions to COACH if your players have to 'figure it out'?
With the talent that came through UK, any mediocre coach could have won 20+ games and an NCAA game here and there. We just consistently had significantly better players year after year. But, in crunch time, in tight NCAA games, in games where the team just isn't hitting their shots, Cal had nothing. No change in strategy. No diagrammed plays to break someone free. No change in defenses to upset the opponent's rhythm. Nothing. Just 'Go', 'Run', 'Dribble/Drive'.
I didn't see anything Teague said that wasn't correct.
With the talent that came through UK, any mediocre coach could have won 20+ games and an NCAA game here and there. We just consistently had significantly better players year after year. But, in crunch time, in tight NCAA games, in games where the team just isn't hitting their shots, Cal had nothing. No change in strategy. No diagrammed plays to break someone free. No change in defenses to upset the opponent's rhythm. Nothing. Just 'Go', 'Run', 'Dribble/Drive'.
I didn't see anything Teague said that wasn't correct.
Cal and Smith won all their championships in the Superdome. Cal won his normal-by winning. Smith's 2 championships were decided by a man throwing the ball to other team (Fred Brown to Worthy) and Chris Webber taking a timeout they didn't have. Think of all the talent/loaded teams and favorable paths to the Final Four and Dean Smith's 2 championships were decided on 2 of the most notable plays in NCAA History.
The one thing about young talent--and a team with a huge talent gap--keep it simple. When you have a team like '10/'12 Kentucky--you keep things very simple. No reason to make it complex-just go out and destroy people. That's smart.
Now where Cal didn't adjust is when he wasn't getting the top tier guys and had a nice group of talent--they were often outschemed and too easy to attack on both ends of the court.
If anything with Cal, I'd say he's cost himself by being too loyal to players and he's far from the only coach who does that. Trusting guys who shouldn't be trusted--playing people who have 0 business on the court. The '19 team should never have kept Reid Travis in so long against Auburn---he was worthless defensively and of the matchups that year between the teams-the close games were with Travis on the court and UK Ran them off the court when he put rim protection/length at the time with Richards/Montgomery.
As a fan of Pitino, the one thing I still don't understand is how he built his philosophy/success to climb the coaching ranks has disappeared since Louisville went to the Big East and now at St. John's. He gets tough guys who all can defend and are versatile but he seems to hate shooters/guys who make shots. It's almost a 180 as he was the coach who brought the 3pt attack to CBB and now he's just got brick tossers all over and wants to win like the 1990's Pat Riley NY Knicks. Strange.
Yep. Plenty of other coaches have also stated that UK was one of if not THE easiest team to prepare against bc you knew exactly what they were going to do. …..just came down to it the other team had the talent/athletes to match it.
2017-2024 our overall talent and athleticism was a shell of the first 7 years….and we had a shell of the results. Go look at rosters. Toppin would have been the 14th man on some of the early rosters. Daniel Orton and Dakari Johnson would have been the best player on every team after 2020
I listened to the episode . It was good and he wasn’t trying to be disrespectful. Marquis pretty much agreed with him .
They all said he isn’t great with Xs and Os but he is great at motivating guys and also talking highly about his players to get the drafted .
So basically if someone disappointed here Cal pitch to NBA team is they sacrificed their game.
They all said he isn’t great with Xs and Os but he is great at motivating guys and also talking highly about his players to get the drafted .
So basically if someone disappointed here Cal pitch to NBA team is they sacrificed their game.
I agree wholeheartedly, but the culture was created that if you hadn't developed enough in your one season you were seen as a failure. Most of the faux one and dones were also recruited over so they ran the risk of losing their PT and looking even worse. You couldn't blame them really.
I'm waiting for someone to say something we don't all know already....
Yeah his style of play, more than most others is reliant SO MUCH on this one factor - How hard they play! This year Cal has his guys playing at very high energy level on both ends and thats very effective when you are playing tough man to man defense and driving it hard to the goal every time.
But when his guys arent doing that (like many times the last 5 years he was here) the defense breaks down without a good rim protector and his offense struggles without spacing and knockdown shooters as a back up plan to the dribble penetration buckets.
So its all about the intensity level he can get out of them and this team has bought into that. Thats why I kept pumping Ark up this year even when they were losing some close ones. They were going at it on both ends with some talented guys and they should have won more games IMO and no surpirse they are a threat in the tournament.
With Cal you never know- would not surprise me for Arkansas to beat TT nor would it surprise me for TT to beat them by 20
Exactly. Remember when he returned with National Champions and added Stack, Sheed, and McInnis?
It’s not easy.
Reading through this thread just reiterates to me that I do not miss him at all.
He gave the best description of Calipari in two sentences:
“I used to watch Marquis and them. I used to be like you’re going to win because you're super talented and you play defense, but your X’s and O’s game is a–.”
“I used to watch Marquis and them. I used to be like you’re going to win because you're super talented and you play defense, but your X’s and O’s game is a–.”
In addition to x and o there were typically curious personnel decisions and difficulty figuring out how to involve pieces of teams that had something to give. And many players that went on to be much more productive professionally than how they were utilized by him. If Fland doesn't get hurt Johnelle Davis would still have been standing in the corner every possession with everyone wondering why the underperformance . He gets to act like he’s ’brought Him along’ now but the reality is Fland being out made Cal use him. I mean it was just like Reeves career under him. And it’s a pretty good list of guys that take steps forward after they aren’t playing under him anymore
I don't think they can match up with our speed and length very well about like ST J.
Anybody can win, but just like I always say scared of nobody line em up.
UPDATE
Per Cal, on the McAfee show, Adou is available for the Texas Tech game.
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Don't take this the wrong way, and I may be wrong, but some injuries made you guys better. I am wondering if you are better off without him?
It was after The Boggie Man went down we got better the last game he played was the last game of the 0/5 SEC start then went 8/5 the rest of the way.
I been saying that for a while.
BUT I think I will call a penalty on you #69
Need to run the video back some for some reason
Teague is not wrong but success can be defined in different ways.
What was Cal stated goal when he got the Kentucky job? To win championships, right?
What was philosophy: I will alway take talent over experience.
He knew that was just a recruiting ******** , because when was successful he had both : super talent and experience.
After 2015 coaching and referring malpractice, he had few other attempts to make adjustments:
2017: Bam, Monk, Fox, sprinkled with some returns/ transfers trying to. Mimic 2012/ 2015. He got hosed by refs and didn’t coach against UnC .
Covid year- where again applied the same formula talent + experience but tournment got cancelled.
Last year - talent + experience + offensive coaching but he forgot to teach defense…..
In basketball games just like in other competitions the key is how to maximize your strengths while hide your weaknesses and how to exploit your opponents weakness and counter their strength. And if you are really good at it, you adopt the strategy to use the perceived opponent strength and transform it into weakness.
What was Cal’ strength : Uber talented players?!
Well, where did the develop their strength in the AAU circuit, right? Well, there don’t play team-basketball, don’t share the ball, and rarely learn all skills for all positions because they are Uber athletic and dominate players that way.
If you have a coach with enough talent but experienced players that understands tactics and play basketball the right way…. Cal always loses to them even if the other teams players do t make it to NBA.
What was Cal stated goal when he got the Kentucky job? To win championships, right?
What was philosophy: I will alway take talent over experience.
He knew that was just a recruiting ******** , because when was successful he had both : super talent and experience.
After 2015 coaching and referring malpractice, he had few other attempts to make adjustments:
2017: Bam, Monk, Fox, sprinkled with some returns/ transfers trying to. Mimic 2012/ 2015. He got hosed by refs and didn’t coach against UnC .
Covid year- where again applied the same formula talent + experience but tournment got cancelled.
Last year - talent + experience + offensive coaching but he forgot to teach defense…..
In basketball games just like in other competitions the key is how to maximize your strengths while hide your weaknesses and how to exploit your opponents weakness and counter their strength. And if you are really good at it, you adopt the strategy to use the perceived opponent strength and transform it into weakness.
What was Cal’ strength : Uber talented players?!
Well, where did the develop their strength in the AAU circuit, right? Well, there don’t play team-basketball, don’t share the ball, and rarely learn all skills for all positions because they are Uber athletic and dominate players that way.
If you have a coach with enough talent but experienced players that understands tactics and play basketball the right way…. Cal always loses to them even if the other teams players do t make it to NBA.
I am sure Cal can coach but he is too lazy to change his ways… he thought he found the winning formula and when that didn’t work he was giving us the cliche : my goal is to create generation wealth by putting players in nba and the success will follow!
Wrong buddy! You got hired to win championships!
This year at Arkansas he is using experienced player and athletes. Once he start playing the teams equally athletic and experienced,his lack of willingness to adjust will give him up again and he will blame injuries and refs.
Wrong buddy! You got hired to win championships!
This year at Arkansas he is using experienced player and athletes. Once he start playing the teams equally athletic and experienced,his lack of willingness to adjust will give him up again and he will blame injuries and refs.
We shall see once this recruiting season shakes out. If Cal can still get the big names he will ride the mediocrity rail at Arkansas until he retires. If he can't get the names he will struggle mightily and probably get fired.
I definitely remember tweets coming out saying that Jeff wanted Marquis to return for his sophomore season
Going to be Thiero tomorrow night. The rotation of Aidoo, Brazile, Knox, and Richmond has been working well for the frontcourt. Thiero has been out and Cal will play him to a fault.
I'm now hearing 8M in just NIL money. Then the profit sharing what ever that works out to.
The Chicken Man hired and is paying for him he will go nowhere as long as the Chicken Man is happy.
Chicken Man = unlimited money to a point at least!
If 8M is a true number I can't say.
I think Cal actually cares about his players but was burned out and burned bridges at KY and took the chance for a fresh start.
Here you can see the player wonted the souvenir the other player told him to put it back and then Cal to him to get all 3.
If you click video on Facebook it will play.
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Someone has to point out that you clearly complimented yourself. That someone is me.