Jeter

df64

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Does Duke win yesterday without Jeter's contribution? Huge rest opportunity for Plumlee. Was able to play fresher, less minutes, etc. Where would Duke have been if Plum was forced to play more minutes, was less effective and or fouled out earlier.

Way to hang in there Chase and work hard until you got your turn! Didn't read the game thread. Maybe this has already been discussed. If so, sorry, but Chase deserves his own anyway.
 

DukeRulesBasketball

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Does Duke win yesterday without Jeter's contribution? Huge rest opportunity for Plumlee. Was able to play fresher, less minutes, etc. Where would Duke have been if Plum was forced to play more minutes, was less effective and or fouled out earlier.

Way to hang in there Chase and work hard until you got your turn! Didn't read the game thread. Maybe this has already been discussed. If so, sorry, but Chase deserves his own anyway.
Chase is the man! He's getting a lot better! Watching him play now and seeing how much better he has improved is making me start to forget about Marques Bolden. He will improve in the offseason and he and Jefferson will be fine. Still though, if Marques does come to Duke then I guess the rich gets richer.
 

dukiejay

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A light has went off for Chase here in the last month. Very happy and proud for him.
 
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pisgah101

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The light might of went off sooner if he was playing all year tho. The kids talented and will play significant minutes next season
 

Dattier

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The light might of went off sooner if he was playing all year tho. The kids talented and will play significant minutes next season
And we might've not seen as much development from Marshall, since game time is the only time anyone ever develops.

You remind me of people complaining about Elliot Williams while Jon Scheyer was cutting down the nets.
 

Crank_it_loud

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And we might've not seen as much development from Marshall, since game time is the only time anyone ever develops.

You remind me of people complaining about Elliot Williams while Jon Scheyer was cutting down the nets.
That doesn't help your argument, IMO. Williams insertion into the lineup was a main reason why Duke made it to the Sweet 16 before getting crushed by Nova. Scheyer cut the nets down, but after Williams was gone so there was no way to know how that would play out.
 
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hpnole

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I was just glad to see the score card and see 7 players with over 10 mins. I really wish DBR could get this info up quicker than overnight. Free throw shooting needs to pick up-I got all this a few mins. ago from DBR, did not get to watch the game. Good win, and hope to keep up the mo.
 

HuffyJB

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I was just glad to see the score card and see 7 players with over 10 mins. I really wish DBR could get this info up quicker than overnight. Free throw shooting needs to pick up-I got all this a few mins. ago from DBR, did not get to watch the game. Good win, and hope to keep up the mo.

Are you saying the only place you get game info and stats from is DBR? That stuff is available instantly a number of places (ESPN.com, CBS Sports, mobile apps, etc.). Or am I misunderstanding you?
 
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DukeDenver

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And we might've not seen as much development from Marshall, since game time is the only time anyone ever develops.

You remind me of people complaining about Elliot Williams while Jon Scheyer was cutting down the nets.
Both of you make fine points. Let's not let the tone get things riled up. Or do, but realize it taints the board's mood slightly. Use your own judgement.
 

pisgah101

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And we might've not seen as much development from Marshall, since game time is the only time anyone ever develops.

You remind me of people complaining about Elliot Williams while Jon Scheyer was cutting down the nets.

Elliot played lights out when he got the chance. Only twice have I thought a player deserved more time and it was Elliot and jeter. When they got it they played well.. Plumlee came into this year ready to play and when Amile went down we (should of) tried to develop Jeter more. Sure you "develop" in practice but nothing is the same as real game time. I watch a lot of high school ball and it kills me when they move a freshman up or sophomore and they sit in the bench.. Even though they get to practice with the team doesn't mean they develop. Missing that JV game time often stunts a good players development. Same case here to me.. To each their own though we can have a difference in opinion doesn't bother me
 

Showenuff

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I think ol' Chase may be huge for us next season. I am SO damn excited to see Tatum and Giles doin' work !
 

dukiejay

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Elliot played lights out when he got the chance. Only twice have I thought a player deserved more time and it was Elliot and jeter. When they got it they played well.. Plumlee came into this year ready to play and when Amile went down we (should of) tried to develop Jeter more. Sure you "develop" in practice but nothing is the same as real game time. I watch a lot of high school ball and it kills me when they move a freshman up or sophomore and they sit in the bench.. Even though they get to practice with the team doesn't mean they develop. Missing that JV game time often stunts a good players development. Same case here to me.. To each their own though we can have a difference in opinion doesn't bother me

The only thing I would say about Chase is that in some of the opportunities he got he was really, really bad. We're not in kindergarten anymore where a guy gets chances to make terrible mistake after terrible mistake, or foul almost an average of every minute played. As Coach K has said numerous times in the past....every player takes their own course. For Chase, I think it was adjusting to the physicality and speed of the game.
 

pisgah101

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The only thing I would say about Chase is that in some of the opportunities he got he was really, really bad. We're not in kindergarten anymore where a guy gets chances to make terrible mistake after terrible mistake, or foul almost an average of every minute played. As Coach K has said numerous times in the past....every player takes their own course. For Chase, I think it was adjusting to the physicality and speed of the game.
Ohh I agree but for some players those first minute jitters are killer and I think that's part of the reason he looked terrible at times in short bursts
 

MyDudeG_rivals

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Yeah Chase has been giving us really good minutes recently! I think the problem with Chase is that his body wasn't college ready to contribute from day one unlike a guy like Jah. I think that another summer in our strength and conditioning program will be huge for him because his talent is already on display.
 

2004Audi

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chase had some bad fouls called on him when he was in the early games this year. imo, some of the calls were very questionable as well. it appears if anything, he is proving he can play without fouling as much, which keeps him in the games longer now. given more time he is showing he can be a productive player for duke.
 
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hpnole

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Are you saying the only place you get game info and stats from is DBR? That stuff is available instantly a number of places (ESPN.com, CBS Sports, mobile apps, etc.). Or am I misunderstanding you?
I usually read the game summary on DBR, then they run the stats at the bottom, which are as interesting to me as the game summary, in some cases more so. DBR usually runs the summary pretty quick , but , doesn't do stats until many hours later, in a lot of cases. I don't understand the delay. I worked for a NC newspaper for 44 years. Very quickly after the game ends, the stats are available. They just don't print them until much later. Yeah, I realize they are not the only source. I just happen to like DBR.
 

Dattier

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That doesn't help your argument, IMO. Williams insertion into the lineup was a main reason why Duke made it to the Sweet 16 before getting crushed by Nova. Scheyer cut the nets down, but after Williams was gone so there was no way to know how that would play out.
No, as we were celebrating out 2010 National Championship, it was pretty pointless to worry about the loss of Elliot Williams. There was no way to know how it would have played out had he stayed? What, was there a second national championship we might have won in 2010 if only he had returned? Come on...
 

aah555

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The light might of went off sooner if he was playing all year tho. The kids talented and will play significant minutes next season

Chase is definitely playing better, and I certainly like his upside for next season. With that said, I'm not really sure I agree that a "light has gone off" for Chase in the past few months. He has had 3 straight positive performances against State, ND, and UNC-W. But, let's not get carried away. While he's been serviceable enough against teams that don't have great bigs (particularly UNC-W and State), I think we're really still about a year away before the light goes off. Even against ND -- where I thought he did a lot of nice things -- he did also foul out in 14 minutes. He's clearly improving. But, let's not overstate the growth or suggest that K's rotations have hindered his growth. IMO, reality is that he'd be playing a lot more if he wasn't absolutely killing us for much of the year. I would add -- it's not as if he wasn't getting on the court after Amile's injury. Against Va Tech and Clemson, for instance, he was given 12 minutes -- and the only reason he didn't get more was he picked up 9 fouls in those 12 minutes. Also, against Ga Tech, he was given 8 minutes -- where he picked up another 4 fouls. If Chase had been even serviceable for most of the year, I think K would have given him a lot more minutes.
 
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pisgah101

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Dat nobody said anything about Elliot coming back but the fact is he helped us make it to the 16 the year he was here and FINALLY got pt
 

dukiejay

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IMO, reality is that he'd be playing a lot more if he wasn't absolutely killing us for much of the year. I would add -- it's not as if he wasn't getting on the court after Amile's injury. Against Va Tech and Clemson, for instance, he was given 12 minutes -- and the only reason he didn't get more was he picked up 9 fouls in those 12 minutes. Also, against Ga Tech, he was given 8 minutes -- where he picked up another 4 fouls. If Chase had been even serviceable for most of the year, I think K would have given him a lot more minutes.

I think that point is missed on so many people.
 

Dattier

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Elliot played lights out when he got the chance. Only twice have I thought a player deserved more time and it was Elliot and jeter. When they got it they played well.. Plumlee came into this year ready to play and when Amile went down we (should of) tried to develop Jeter more. Sure you "develop" in practice but nothing is the same as real game time. I watch a lot of high school ball and it kills me when they move a freshman up or sophomore and they sit in the bench.. Even though they get to practice with the team doesn't mean they develop. Missing that JV game time often stunts a good players development. Same case here to me.. To each their own though we can have a difference in opinion doesn't bother me
Why would you think Jeter's lack of PT had anything to do w/ whether anyone attempted to develop him? You think there was some discussion where Scheyer said, "Hey, do you think maybe we oughta maybe kinda think about developing Jeter?" and K, Capel, and Nate all answered in unison, "No! We will not try to develop Jeter!" Is that how you think it went down?

I think you have the "when they got [PT] they played well" thing backward... and not just backward, but mind-numbingly, infuriatingly backward. You act as if PT is just some random thing, and that one day K just flips a coin and says, "Hey, let's see what Chase can do," and he plays well and it means he always could have -- no, would have -- played well, if only K had even attempted to see what he could do instead of never ever ever even considering him. That's just an insultingly ridiculous assumption I cannot and will not respect for even a second. Chase, like Elliot, got PT when he was ready for it, and then played well. Why would you assume instead that the all-time winningest coach in the history of college basketball is that freakin' dumb?

If you want to say you wish K played a deeper rotation earlier in the season, fine. That's a stylistic choice where you prefer Roy Williams, and his approach has also proven to work out more often than not. Fine. But to claim that getting PT proves you were ready, and proves you were ready retroactively, as opposed to getting the PT when you've proven you are now ready, is essentially insinuating K is just that dumb.

Chase played a total of 27 minutes in January. He missed the only FGA he took, hit 2 of 4 FTs, had 3 rebounds, 1 block, 2 turnovers, 14 fouls, and a total of 2 points. Between that and practice, the latter of which you don't get to see, what leads anyone to believe he should have been playing more then, other than this unfalsifiable but insulting theory that he "would've, could've, should've"? In February he played 61 minutes, went 5-9 from the field and 4-7 from the line for a grand total of 14 points. He had 15 rebounds, 1 assist, 1 block, 1 steal, 12 turnovers, and 3 fouls. That's a huge improvement. Again, why would you assume to know better than the GOAT that the magical fix was just being arbitrarily given more PT, as opposed to his earning more PT through improved practices? Frankly, you insult K and Chase when you say that, b/c Chase has shown great perseverance and improvement, but you would ignore that in favor of second guessing K in an area where you have a complete lack of data to do so.
 

Dattier

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Dat nobody said anything about Elliot coming back but the fact is he helped us make it to the 16 the year he was here and FINALLY got pt
**I** brought Elliot up as a comparison of two dumb, pointless things: complaining about his absence when we were hoisting the national championship trophy and complaining about all the PT Chase didn't get 15 games ago. That anyone would think it supports your point is just beyond insane.
The fact is he FINALLY earned PT, not that he finally "got" it. You are arguing an unfalsifiable position assuming the worst about Coach K based on nothing but hypotheticals. Again, there is a difference between preferring he'd do something differently and claiming he made a mistake based on nothing but hypotheticals.
 

pisgah101

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Thanks @Dattier for clearing everything up and making sure I understand basketball clearly! Sorry a difference of opinion makes a post "dumb"
 

Dattier

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Thanks @Dattier for clearing everything up and making sure I understand basketball clearly! Sorry a difference of opinion makes a post "dumb"
You triggered some anger. I'm sorry for that. And your second sentence could've triggered some more b/c it is not in any way, shape, or form about a "difference of opinion." I even said that several times. "I wish K did things a little differently" is an opinion I can and do respect. "This proves K should of [sic] been playing Chase more all along" is an attempt to present your opinion as fact (see underlined word), and that's intolerable.

Frankly, resorting to "waaaah, you can't handle differences of opinion" or "waaaah, it's a free country; I can say what I want" is a whiny, immature cop-out used by people who are projecting b/c they think freedom of speech means they're entitled to respect for however they use it, and they can't handle it when their opinions aren't received like a newborn baby being passed delicately to its grandma for the first time.
 

topps coach

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Yeah Chase has been giving us really good minutes recently! I think the problem with Chase is that his body wasn't college ready to contribute from day one unlike a guy like Jah. I think that another summer in our strength and conditioning program will be huge for him because his talent is already on display.
He is only 18 another years physical maturity will mean the world to him.I went to college as a 17 year old kid and got my butt kicked on a daily basis. One year older after a year in the weight room made it a different story.Chase will be fine next year and a monster the year after
 

pisgah101

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You triggered some anger. I'm sorry for that. And your second sentence could've triggered some more b/c it is not in any way, shape, or form about a "difference of opinion." I even said that several times. "I wish K did things a little differently" is an opinion I can and do respect. "This proves K should of [sic] been playing Chase more all along" is an attempt to present your opinion as fact (see underlined word), and that's intolerable.

Frankly, resorting to "waaaah, you can't handle differences of opinion" or "waaaah, it's a free country; I can say what I want" is a whiny, immature cop-out used by people who are projecting b/c they think freedom of speech means they're entitled to respect for however they use it, and they can't handle it when their opinions aren't received like a newborn baby being passed delicately to its grandma for the first time.

Okay. You don't have to respect it, that wasn't what I was saying but you don't have to be an A-hole about it either. Best part of the off-season..... You disappear from the board
 

Dattier

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Okay. You don't have to respect it, that wasn't what I was saying but you don't have to be an A-hole about it either. Best part of the off-season..... You disappear from the board
If you think I'm being an a-hole over your opinion about Chase's PT, what would you expect in response to making it more personal?
 

crazyduke3

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I like Denver's advice.

Chase showed Marshall year 2 hands this season and it cost him playing time. Again, he's very young and not very developed, so he made plenty of mistakes during the season. So it's a pleasure to see him understand a little better what he needs to do and make smarter plays and at times tough plays. If we want a deep run in this sucker, he's gonna have to contribute.
 

Crank_it_loud

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No, as we were celebrating out 2010 National Championship, it was pretty pointless to worry about the loss of Elliot Williams. There was no way to know how it would have played out had he stayed? What, was there a second national championship we might have won in 2010 if only he had returned? Come on...

But again, you're arguing that Williams is a good example, but he's not. He and Scheyer played together, but Chase and Plumlee don't/wouldn't.
 
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DukeDenver

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Dattier

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But again, you're arguing that Williams is a good example, but he's not. He and Scheyer played together, but Chase and Plumlee don't/wouldn't.
I'll explain yet again: We won the 2010 title, so if you weren't over Elliot's departure by then, you were an idiot. Chase is now contributing good minutes off the bench. Whining about what should have happened mid season is irrelevant, idiotic, and just as pointless.
 

Crank_it_loud

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And again your arguing as if Chase isn't on this team, or won't be next year. It makes little sense.

I get what you're trying to say, but IMO it's a bad example.
 

Dattier

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I stand by my example that whining about an irrelevant thing from the past, whether 20 years or 20 minutes ago, is idiotic.
 

df64

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Read something interesting about Marshal not pacing himself in the 2nd half and then dominating. He went so hard, he needed a break 3 minutes into the 2nd half. If Chase can allow him to do that the rest of the way, it bodes much better for Duke. I think a lot of Dukes defensive woes have been guys being forced to pace themselves and not foul.
 

Dukesince90

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Read something interesting about Marshal not pacing himself in the 2nd half and then dominating. He went so hard, he needed a break 3 minutes into the 2nd half. If Chase can allow him to do that the rest of the way, it bodes much better for Duke. I think a lot of Dukes defensive woes have been guys being forced to pace themselves and not foul.
I definitely agree with you. It's like our whole team is playing like Mason Plumlee did his senior year when he would give players uncontested layups to stay out of foul trouble. We can't afford players fouling out.